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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

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zshawn10 said:
Leading up to the draft, the #Texans called a few teams with hopes to move up in the 1st round by flipping their pick + Clowney.

As far as I could gather, just him alone was bringing back a day 2 asset in return. With where things stand now, have to imagine that hasn’t improved

— Connor Rogers (@ConnorJRogers) August 13, 2019
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This seems to contradict the Toro article posted above. Thanks for posting zshawn10
 
TheKDog said:
@PatDStat: @Zepp1978 If they wanted to deal him with him@having no say, they should have done it last season. Now, Clowney has leverage. He has no contract. He controls everything. Any team trading for JD would be foolish. Can’t sign a long term deal until after the season.
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If he is traded a long term deal can be done with a new team
 
JB said:
Signing period for the tender ended mid-July
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JB I don't understand exactly what you're asking. Signing date to accept the franchise offer was as you stated mid-july. Signing with another team through trade can be done as late as a date in October. Two different things.
 
Mangler said:
I don’t trust O’Brien and Devlin’s incompetent ass getting their hands on any “young and promising” tackles. At this point, give us a proven LT and a pick or two.
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Devlin has to go. The Astros bring in overlooked pitchers (like Morton) and they leave here as studs. We do the opposite. We bring in average players and immediately make them look like flaming dog ****
 
281Texan said:
Devlin has to go. The Astros bring in overlooked pitchers (like Morton) and they leave here as studs. We do the opposite. We bring in average players and immediately make them look like flaming dog ****
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Exactly! Sometimes I wish Crane or Fertitta would make Cal an offer the McNair family just can’t resist. I bet they’d hire the right people to steer this ship in the right direction. I wonder what they would do about this situation with Clowney?
 
They had to move him before July 15 they botched that and now they will get 10 cents on the dollar if they trade him, because teams aren't giving them high picks for a guy they could lose in a year. The only chance the Texans have to get value for him in a deal is if a team is doing a wink wink deal that they will pay him after this season.
 
badboy said:
No. Up until October trade deadline. Read CBA. After October if he doesn't report Clowney loses a year of NFL eligibility as well as his entire check. Texans continue to hold his rights for next season.
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Clowney can only sign the franchise tag.

The deadline has passed. Same as if he's traded.

He can only play this year on the franchise tag. He cannot sign a new deal with the texans or anyone else until after this season.

Dont you remember the fuss around the deadline and him being offered a contract a couple weeks ago? If not then yeah, that's what that was all about.

He has two options at this point. Play this year under the franchise tag or sit out.
 
Jadeveon Clowney won't get a long-term contract in Houston this season.

The Texans and the pass rusher failed to come to an agreement on a multiyear pact prior to Monday's 4 p.m. ET deadline. As such, sides cannot negotiate a long-term deal until after the season.
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nf...ff&p.bgc1m=%230964bf&p.bgc2m=%23053a74&sr=amp

Not sure what you're reading in the cba, but I'd look at it again more closely. This was widely reported by multiple reputable outlets so I'm gonna go ahead and take their word for it.

Have not heard one reputable source or even the Texans say that a deal can be worked out at this point.

And that is the leverage Clowney has as far as who he is willing to accept a trade to. If he doesn't like the team he could walk in the off season.
 
Thorn said:
I keep coming back here to see if anything's happened, but it hasn't.

I think I'll start making up stuff just to see who blows up first.
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Clowney traded for a 2nd round pick!



It's actually our pick we traded to Cleveland to take clowney...

:choke:
 
texanhead08 said:
They had to move him before July 15 they botched that and now they will get 10 cents on the dollar if they trade him, because teams aren't giving them high picks for a guy they could lose in a year. The only chance the Texans have to get value for him in a deal is if a team is doing a wink wink deal that they will pay him after this season.
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Exactly.

I dont think badboy is getting this.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Clowney can only sign the franchise tag.

The deadline has passed. Same as if he's traded.

He can only play this year on the franchise tag. He cannot sign a new deal with the texans or anyone else until after this season.

Dont you remember the fuss around the deadline and him being offered a contract a couple weeks ago? If not then yeah, that's what that was all about.

He has two options at this point. Play this year under the franchise tag or sit out.
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The way I read the CBA, he can sign a new contract for 2019 ONLY with the Texans but is free to negotiate a longer new term deal with any other team
 
JB said:
The way I read the CBA, he can sign a new contract for 2019 ONLY with the Texans but is free to negotiate a longer new term deal with any other team
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Nope.

He can do a wink wink with a team assuring them in the off season he'll sign a new deal but no matter what he is either playing this year under the tag or sitting.

That is what makes trading him more difficult now that the deadline has passed. That is why the team he is being traded to the feeling has to be mutual. Clowney wants to be there long term and they want him long term. And they have to trust each other that a deal will get done.

By the way, this is another poor move by the team. They likely could've gotten more by trading him before the deadline so he could've worked out a deal with a new team.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Nope.

He can do a wink wink with a team assuring them in the off season he'll sign a new deal but no matter what he is either playing this year under the tag or sitting.

That is what makes trading him more difficult now that the deadline has passed. That is why the team he is being traded to the feeling has to be mutual. Clowney wants to be there long term and they want him long term. And they have to trust each other that a deal will get done.

By the way, this is another poor move by the team. They likely could've gotten more by trading him before the deadline so he could've worked out a deal with a new team.
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Your interpretation is yours of course, but disagrees with all I read prior to July 15
 
JB said:
Your interpretation is yours of course, but disagrees with all I read prior to July 15
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Not really an interpretation. It's what has been widely reported and the only contradiction ive seen is from you and badboy.

No offense to you guys at all, but I'm going with what every nfl source nationally and locally has reported.

Edit: yes prior to the july 15th deadline he could've signed a deal with the texans or with other teams if traded. But since that deadline passed he cannot. It's why making a move with him before that was such a big deal.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001035863/article/jadeveon-clowney-doesnt-get-deal-before-deadline?networkId=4595&site=.news&zone=story&zoneUrl=url%3Dstory&zoneKeys=s1%3Dstory&env&pageKeyValues=prtnr%3Daround-the-league;team%3Dhou;conf%3Dafc;dvsn%3Dacs;plyr%3Djadeveon_clowney&p.ct=Around+the+NFL&p.adsm=true&p.tcm=%23fff&p.bgc1m=%230964bf&p.bgc2m=%23053a74&sr=amp

Not sure what you're reading in the cba, but I'd look at it again more closely. This was widely reported by multiple reputable outlets so I'm gonna go ahead and take their word for it.

Have not heard one reputable source or even the Texans say that a deal can be worked out at this point.

And that is the leverage Clowney has as far as who he is willing to accept a trade to. If he doesn't like the team he could walk in the off season.
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I have provided actual words from the 2011 NFL collective bargaining agreement. You provide links to people like us. I will say I'm wrong when evidence from CBA is provided. Why hasn't Obrien simply said , Clowney cannot be traded. He can either sit out or play for us at the tag price? Seems rather simple if you are correct. OTOH if he were to say Clowney is being shopped that would benefit no one. IRRC wasn't that one of the reasons stated in the Miami alleged deal that up set Clowney? I believe what is confusing folks is that the Texans after the July deadline cannot negotiate with Clowney until the end of the 2019 season. Folks are then saying Clowney cannot negotiate with other teams. I have provided info from the CBA disputing that.
 
badboy said:
I have provided actual words from the 2011 NFL collective bargaining agreement. You provide links to people like us. I will say I'm wrong when evidence from CBA is provided. Why hasn't Obrien simply said , Clowney cannot be traded. He can either sit out or play for us at the tag price? Seems rather simple if you are correct. OTOH if he were to say Clowney is being shopped that would benefit no one. IRRC wasn't that one of the reasons stated in the Miami alleged deal that up set Clowney? I believe what is confusing folks is that the Texans after the July deadline cannot negotiate with Clowney until the end of the 2019 season. Folks are then saying Clowney cannot negotiate with other teams. I have provided info from the CBA disputing that.
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Ok
 
maverick512000 said:
Yeah Clowney is hard to judge, he's good but has he been first overall good especially paired with Watt. Also frankly his ability to stop the run game doesn't impress me as much as it maybe should but it seems the days of Emmitt Smith and Barry Sanders type running backs that teams couldn't stop are mostly over. Think Lynch was the last one I can really remember that made an impact. Look at the last several playoffs and its clear this is a QB league and the ability to pressure the QB or stop receivers has become the big thing for defenses. In that regard Clowney hasn't been worth the 1st over all so how do you judge really.
Me if I can get a good trade I trade him and if not play him on the franchise tag then let him walk when he becomes a F/A. Yeah the defense will be weaker but that happens and Clowney doesn't warrant the big payday he going to want in my book.
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I've always believed when you have a star at a skill position you need another one at that position. As great as AJ was I always wondered what could have been with a viable #2. That’s why i leaned toward not trading him. But perhaps Reader is the more important piece in this puzzle. You seem to have the best solution to just let him walk next year so I guess the only decision is what round pick would you take this year to lose a year of his services? For me a two for sure.
 
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Dejaview said:
I've always believed when you have a star at a skill position you need another one at that position. As great as AJ was I always wondered what could have been with a viable #2. That’s why i leaned toward not trading him. But perhaps Reader is the more important piece in this puzzle. You seem to have the best solution to just let him walk next year so I guess the only decision is what round pick would you take this year to lose a year of his services? For me a two for sure.
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Trade wise yeah I wouldn't take less than a 2 unless it was part of a player package like Williams or such. If you can't trade him then play him this last year then see what we get compensation pick wise. Is it the best solution, no but at the same time I think its the best solution available to us. I really think they have been trying to trade him but haven't had any serious offers because, lets be honest, how many teams out there are going to look at Clowney and say "That's the final piece we need to make a SB run."

Here's the thing about Clowney, I personally have always found it very telling that his best year was the year JJ was out. I'm not saying he's lazy but I don't think he's going all out, all the time either. Clowney knows on the Texans with Watt he will always be second fiddle and I think he wants to be the Von Miller or JJ Watt for a team. That's not saying he's not still good but I think he falls back on his athleticism and natural gifts and doesn't push himself to the same level. You add in the time bomb that is his knee, no matter how many on here with zero medical knowledge claim its not an issue, and he's not worth what the Texans would have to pay to keep him.

Would I like Clowney to stay a Texan, yes. Am I going to be heartbroken and claim the sky is falling if he's not, no. My only fear is that the powers that be can't figure out what to do about him and just ignore the problem hoping it goes away.
 
maverick512000 said:
Trade wise yeah I wouldn't take less than a 2 unless it was part of a player package like Williams or such. If you can't trade him then play him this last year then see what we get compensation pick wise. Is it the best solution, no but at the same time I think its the best solution available to us. I really think they have been trying to trade him but haven't had any serious offers because, lets be honest, how many teams out there are going to look at Clowney and say "That's the final piece we need to make a SB run."

Here's the thing about Clowney, I personally have always found it very telling that his best year was the year JJ was out. I'm not saying he's lazy but I don't think he's going all out, all the time either. Clowney knows on the Texans with Watt he will always be second fiddle and I think he wants to be the Von Miller or JJ Watt for a team. That's not saying he's not still good but I think he falls back on his athleticism and natural gifts and doesn't push himself to the same level. You add in the time bomb that is his knee, no matter how many on here with zero medical knowledge claim its not an issue, and he's not worth what the Texans would have to pay to keep him.

Would I like Clowney to stay a Texan, yes. Am I going to be heartbroken and claim the sky is falling if he's not, no. My only fear is that the powers that be can't figure out what to do about him and just ignore the problem hoping it goes away.
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Agree with your character attributes. Really, there is no way on Earth OB had anything to do with drafting this guy. In fact he seems to avoid talking about him too much. I believe his drafting...injured with ? marks lit the OB RS rift fuse. Fitzpatrick was signed I believe in March before the draft and wasn’t named starting QB until after the draft. I believe OB wanted a QB in that spot. The micro surgery operation was the boom!
 
Dejaview said:
Agree with your character attributes. Really, there is no way on Earth OB had anything to do with drafting this guy. In fact he seems to avoid talking about him too much. I believe his drafting...injured with ? marks lit the OB RS rift fuse. Fitzpatrick was signed I believe in March before the draft and wasn’t named starting QB until after the draft. I believe OB wanted a QB in that spot. The micro surgery operation was the boom!
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I couldn't say, I'm sure Smith made the final call but BoB sure was smiling in the pictures of him standing next to Clowney, more so than he was in the pictures right after drafting Watson at least lol. Me personally, if I'm drafting number 1, I'm almost always either taking a QB or trading it for as much capital as I can get. If you are drafting number 1 then there is something fundamentally wrong with your team and usually its that you don't have a QB worth a damn unless you are in that rare spot like Miami was with Marino where you have a great QB but no team to put around him. In that case multiple picks has more value then one high pick because you are filling multiple holes.

All that being said hindsight shows the Texans dodged a bullet QB wise in that draft since the only two first rounders were Bortles and Manziel. Least Clowney has added more to the team than those two duds. Derek Carr has proven to be solid but there was no way in hell Texans were drafting another Carr so that wouldn't have happened anyway.
 
Dejaview said:
Agree with your character attributes. Really, there is no way on Earth OB had anything to do with drafting this guy. In fact he seems to avoid talking about him too much. I believe his drafting...injured with ? marks lit the OB RS rift fuse. Fitzpatrick was signed I believe in March before the draft and wasn’t named starting QB until after the draft. I believe OB wanted a QB in that spot. The micro surgery operation was the boom!
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OB wanted Hoyer and Mallet.

Here's pff on clowney. If this isn't an ob guy, then that's just another example of how he can't evaluate talent:

Clowney is coming off a year that saw him set career-high marks in overall grade, sacks and snaps played (including the postseason). The former first overall pick tallied 63 quarterback pressures a season ago — the second straight year that he’s produced 60-plus quarterback pressures — and his career-high pass-rush grade of 78.8 was good for 13th among 111 qualifying players at the position. As promising as his career-high pass-rushing marks are, they pale in comparison to his performance against the run. Clowney has earned run-defense grades north of 75.0 in each of the last four seasons, and a staggering 47.2% of his career run tackles have been for a loss of yardage or no gain — second to only Michael Bennett (53.7%) among the 94 edge defenders with at least 500 run-defense snaps since 2014
 
maverick512000 said:
I couldn't say, I'm sure Smith made the final call but BoB sure was smiling in the pictures of him standing next to Clowney, more so than he was in the pictures right after drafting Watson at least lol. Me personally, if I'm drafting number 1, I'm almost always either taking a QB or trading it for as much capital as I can get. If you are drafting number 1 then there is something fundamentally wrong with your team and usually its that you don't have a QB worth a damn unless you are in that rare spot like Miami was with Marino where you have a great QB but no team to put around him. In that case multiple picks has more value then one high pick because you are filling multiple holes.

All that being said hindsight shows the Texans dodged a bullet QB wise in that draft since the only two first rounders were Bortles and Manziel. Least Clowney has added more to the team than those two duds. Derek Carr has proven to be solid but there was no way in hell Texans were drafting another Carr so that wouldn't have happened anyway.
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It's much easier to say trade down from 1.1 than do it... there has to be a QB worth trading up for, and in 2014 no such animal existed

Just like 2006
 
JB said:
It's much easier to say trade down from 1.1 than do it... there has to be a QB worth trading up for, and in 2014 no such animal existed

Just like 2006
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True but at the same time some team out there is going to want that number 1 spot. Jags took Bortles at 3 so its not like the first QB taken was a long ways down. It wouldn't have been a hard sell to convince them that we were interested in him ourselves but we had other needs so were willing to let him go for more picks.
 
maverick512000 said:
True but at the same time some team out there is going to want that number 1 spot. Jags took Bortles at 3 so its not like the first QB taken was a long ways down. It wouldn't have been a hard sell to convince them that we were interested in him ourselves but we had other needs so were willing to let him go for more picks.
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That infers Jax thought he was worth 1.1+
 
JB said:
That infers Jax thought he was worth 1.1+
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Not a huge leap in logic, they thought he was worth 1.3. Hell the Bears moved up one spot from 2 to 1 because the 49ers pulled a slick move. Different people and different situation I grant you but it does show people don't always think straight if they're scared their chosen QB might be gone before they get there. All this does depend on the Texans ability to sell it though and I'm not sure anyone in the Texans F/O could have done that in 14...….hell I'm not sure anyone can do that in 19.
 
My guy @RapSheet just said on my SSalisburyShow that Dak would be "underpaid at 33 million per year". Believes Dak is better than the peception! SportsTalk790 #CowboysNation #Cowboys

— Sean Salisbury (@SeanUnfiltered) August 14, 2019

"I think what you’re sort of seeing is there are reasons the Texans moved on from Brian Gaine. I think one was some stuff that happened in the draft, the inability to make some trades, letting the Eagles jump them for Dillard. There was certainly some issues and the thought that things moved a little too fast for him.

The other part of is was, this is an unbelievable opportunity for a franchise. You’ve got a franchise QB and a nasty defense with a ton of great players and you left a hole there a Left Tackle that’s just kind of unfathomable. That’s a position you’ve got to have.
…

I’ve also heard Trent Williams is not available. The Redskins just have not entertained any offers. Three teams have called, they have been told no, a flat no. The other thing is, his health is a question as is what kind of shape he’s in after multiple surgeries.
…
So what the Texans are going to do is either go out and sign or trade for someone like a Matt Kalil, who they already have, or they’re going to play the young guy. And I’m not sure either of those is a great option.
…
The Texans have been open to dealing Clowney since March, so this is not new news. It’s not impossible, but a team can’t sign him although they’ll have negotiating rights to him until March. So that’s a risk for a team that would be giving up the kind of premium pick the Texans want. Clowney basically won’t sign his tag if the Texans would be sending him somewhere he doesn’t want to be.

I’m not sure Clowney is disgruntled with the Texans, I haven’t got that sense at all. It’s more the Texans being open to dealing him looking at their long term future and all that. Deals can happen, but [this situation] is just hard. The likelihood is he shows up after the third preseason game.
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zshawn10 said:
My guy @RapSheet just said on my SSalisburyShow that Dak would be "underpaid at 33 million per year". Believes Dak is better than the peception! SportsTalk790 #CowboysNation #Cowboys

— Sean Salisbury (@SeanUnfiltered) August 14, 2019
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The Texans have been open to dealing Clowney since March, so this is not new news. It’s not impossible, but a team can’t sign him although they’ll have negotiating rights to him until March. So that’s a risk for a team that would be giving up the kind of premium pick the Texans want. Clowney basically won’t sign his tag if the Texans would be sending him somewhere he doesn’t want to be.
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Someone else reporting this.
 
https://twitter.com/ChronBrianSmith/status/1161667726655537159?s=20

O’Brien said he is unaware of all the trade speculation surrounding Clowney.
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tenor.gif
 
TheKDog said:
@gs27 ?
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xtruroyaltyx said:
Talking about the Clowney contract portion.

One more person reporting that he cannot sign a new contrac now...even if traded
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Google non-exclusive franchise tag and the rules will be explained. Franchise tagged players can negotiate with other teams, Texans can match, or be compensated 2 1st round picks if they don't, that compensation can also be negotiated. Clowney can't negotiate or sign a new contract with the Texans until March.
 
From an NFL.com article...

"The non-exclusive tag allows Clowney to negotiate with another team potentially, but Houston would get back two first-round picks in compensation. It's not expected a team would fork over two first-rounders for Clowney."

Link
 
gs27 said:
Google non-exclusive franchise tag and the rules will be explained. Franchise tagged players can negotiate with other teams, Texans can match, or be compensated 2 1st round picks if they don't, that compensation can also be negotiated. Clowney can't negotiate or sign a new contract with the Texans until March.
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Oh I know.

That's what I was trying to explain earlier in the thread.
 
FuzzyLogic said:
From an NFL.com article...

"The non-exclusive tag allows Clowney to negotiate with another team potentially, but Houston would get back two first-round picks in compensation. It's not expected a team would fork over two first-rounders for Clowney."

Link
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Yes, but the teams can negotiate down the (2) 1st round picks. I suspect the Texans have probably received offers for (1) 2020 1st, but only from teams that are probable late 2020 1st round and would prefer an early pick. Also the difficulty is Clowney needs to accept the terms of a long term contract that the other teams are offering. That is the tricky part. If Clowney isn't traded this year I think his value for long term contract next year is even smaller. He could end up getting a rare 3 time FT if he continues to play well. Contracts would be +/- 16M then 21M, then 26M. Clowney needs to think about that and come to his senses. Take the long term now, it isn't getting any better. Texans have him locked up for 3 years, 63M with nothing guaranteed.
 
gs27 said:
Yes, but the teams can negotiate down the (2) 1st round picks. I suspect the Texans have probably received offers for (1) 2020 1st, but only from teams that are probable late 2020 1st round and would prefer an early pick. Also the difficulty is Clowney needs to accept the terms of a long term contract that the other teams are offering. That is the tricky part. If Clowney isn't traded this year I think his value for long term contract next year is even smaller. He could end up getting a rare 3 time FT if he continues to play well. Contracts would be +/- 16M then 21M, then 26M. Clowney needs to think about that and come to his senses. Take the long term now, it isn't getting any better. Texans have him locked up for 3 years, 63M with nothing guaranteed.
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Honestly I don't even know if they have received offers for any 1st round picks. I keep asking this but what team is going to point to Clowney and say "that's the guy we need to make us real contenders." or even "thats the guy we can build a brick wall defense around."? Just about any team, including us, would be better with Clowney but what team, including us, will feel like they have to have him to truly have a solid defense? Clowney is a beast at stopping the run game but he hasn't been that impressive at shutting down QBs or helping in the air game and for the playoff level teams that's what they mostly face. Non-playoff level teams have to many other needs to take on his high price tag. You add in the possible knee issue which is a ticking time bomb and I just don't think other teams value him as much as maybe they would have in seasons past when guys like Smith, Sanders, Foster and even Lynch were tearing defenses apart with their run game.
 
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