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Brian Gaine Thread

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beerlover

Hall of Fame
Can't find a single post calling Howard a bust? So you're just making shyt up, huh?

BTW, Howard is from a small school. Had two games vs. FBS schools in 4 seasons. How could he possibly be described as anything but a project?

Dillard was a 4 year starter at a PAC 12 school. No one is a sure thing. But, that's as much of a sure thing as you can get.

No one knows for sure how this plays out. But pointing out that Gaine has gone against the grain is a very fair critique.
Pretty simple, Texans are chasing the Colts and Reich/Ballard > O’Brian/Gaine
 

Mangler

Toro de España
So now liking Dillard more than Howard is calling Howard a bust?

People only hear what they want to hear. These 2 things aren't mutually exclusive.

Wipe away, obviously you have a terrible case of Montezuma's revenge.
Call me whatever names you want, you have no room to talk. You’ve posted repeatedly about hoping Watson gets his neck broke just to prove us wrong and be able to say “I told you so.” Also, don’t backtrack now just because there are positive reports on Howard from OTA’s.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Call me whatever names you want, you have no room to talk. You’ve posted repeatedly about hoping Watson gets his neck broke just to prove us wrong and be able to say “I told you so.” Also, don’t backtrack now just because there are positive reports on Howard from OTA’s.
I haven't called you any names.

I guess you've never heard of a figure of speech. The Texans didn't do all they could to protect Watson. That was my point and if he gets hurt they will have nobody to blame but themselves.

I like Dillard better than Howard. That doesn't mean Howard cant be good, it just means he's got a much steeper learning curve because of the competition he's played against and BTW, I'm rooting for Howard to be successful, if he is the Texans will be successful and that's what we all want.

So please stop quoting me if you cant quote me correctly. Reading comprehension is your friend. Your kind like Car Bomebd hearing what you want to hear and believing what you want to believe about me. He believes I liked Blake Bortles when he was coming out and that's just flat out not true. That was Texian, another poster that disagreed with the way Texans org is being run and the mob ran him out of here. Good luck if you think that's going to happen with me. I appreciate the back and forth but dont be disingenuous, that's all I ask.

Now I will go look for my pom poms and get in the spirit around these parts.
 
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Dejaview

All Pro
Huh? The 2018 picks were almost unanimously praised. There were questions about the Akins pick so early (late 3rd). The other picks were praised, profusely.

Reid
Rankin
Akins
Coutee
Ejiofor
Thomas

And the questioning and headscratching this year are generated from one pick. The overwhelming majority are happy with the picks from the 2nd round on. It's the first pick. And I haven't seen anyone suggest Howard is a bust. The criticism stems from, why take a raw player so early, why not maneuver in the draft and take the same player, or why not maneuver in the draft and select a more accomplished player? All legitimate questions. And that criticism is from less than 50% of the fanbase that resides here.

Gaine has been on the job for 18 months. Everything he has touched has not turned to gold. There are concerns from some that he has not done enough to protect the franchise QB we have waited so long for. I hope Gaine has made the right decision. I think even the most strident critics of Gaine hope that, as well. Let's just not hoist him up on a pedestal, yet. It could be a long fall.
BG in just a little over a year has largely reconstructed the OL while adding three new draft picks, promoted a new OC and hired DW a top notch QB coach (while reconstructing the completely neglected TE and S positions, etc.). Sounds like a pretty good one year resume but of course that’s not good enough for some here.
 

ATXtexanfan

Hall of Fame
BG in just a little over a year has largely reconstructed the OL while adding three new draft picks, promoted a new OC and hired DW a top notch QB coach (while reconstructing the completely neglected TE and S positions, etc.). Sounds like a pretty good one year resume but of course that’s not good enough for some here.
Me and you can reconstruct the oline. But after 5 yrs the people in charge dont when to call timeout or who the starting 5 is.
 

AcresHomesTexan

No Longer Arlington: Escaped From Jerry's World
Staff member
Why in the hell the Texans should know who the starting 5 OLmen are in May.??? Last I recall the collective 5 who ended the year were one of the worst lines in the NFL two years running? At OT Davenport largely wasn't good, there are 2 fill-in often injured guys and 2 rookies...the center and free agent OG were meh, replacement level dudes with 2nd-year relative high pick behind them, not to mention fanboy Mancz.

I am sure if the Texans named their starting 5 right now, I would be reading from some posters how Bob/Devlin just dumbly gave dudes jobs w/o said players earning them.
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
Why in the hell they shouldn't know. They have 4 returning darn starters. Those 4 along with Henderson should have a good feel for the offensive game plan by now. Those rookies doesn't have a freaking clue.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Really? Doesn't seem like it based on your negativity
The questions I've got about Howard are fair ones.

Let me go find my pompoms so I can wave them and maybe that will make you happy. Because that's what we all know is most important.
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
Cant hurt either, seeing they were as bad as they were last yr.

But this is another fair question that JB doesn't want to hear any part of.

No doubt but we should go with the 4 starters and Henderson since they're familiar with the offensive schemes/plan. Remember we change up every game so it will take the youngster a minute to understand the complexity of this offense. Now if they flat out win the job, then so be it.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I like Dillard better than Howard. That doesn't mean Howard cant be good, it just means he's got a much steeper learning curve because of the competition he's played against and BTW,
No, that does not mean that at all.

Level of competition does not prevent Howard from being a day 1 starter. He played well against "better" competition every chance he's had to date & he's with a true NFL staff working with & against NFL talent. They'll be able to tell if he's ready or not.

I am not arguing that Howard is ready to start day 1. Only that level of competition doesn't mean Howard's learning curve is any steeper than someone who has never played out of a 3 point stance, never played with NFL spacing, etc...
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
No, that does not mean that at all.

Level of competition does not prevent Howard from being a day 1 starter. He played well against "better" competition every chance he's had to date & he's with a true NFL staff working with & against NFL talent. They'll be able to tell if he's ready or not.

I am not arguing that Howard is ready to start day 1. Only that level of competition doesn't mean Howard's learning curve is any steeper than someone who has never played out of a 3 point stance, never played with NFL spacing, etc...
Agree to disagree

The former SB winning Eagles disagree with you as well.
 

JB

Innocent Bystander
Contributor's Club
The questions I've got about Howard are fair ones.

Let me go find my pompoms so I can wave them and maybe that will make you happy. Because that's what we all know is most important.
Dude, the next time you are objectively fair re. the Texans will be the first time. You disagree with decisions made and I get that, but they have been made and your crying about those decisions accomplishes nothing other than make you look like a little whiney b!tch
 

BOBdaFRAUD

Waterboy
Gaine is showing some cracks in his decision making..................

why keep BOB? what could possibly the upside of keeping this coach? If we hired some scrub of the streets, the outlook this season would have been better cause least we have the unknown.

we know exactly what were gonna get. Poor calls, inability to challenge good teams, players unprepared for games.


BARFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
Why in the hell they shouldn't know. They have 4 returning darn starters. Those 4 along with Henderson should have a good feel for the offensive game plan by now. Those rookies doesn't have a freaking clue.
By that line of thinking Tom Savage should have stayed the QB because he had been in the system far longer and Watson was a rookie. Just because someone is a returning starter doesn't mean you should automatically keep them in their job especially when they failed so badly at the most important part of their job.
 

Dejaview

All Pro
Dude, the next time you are objectively fair re. the Texans will be the first time. You disagree with decisions made and I get that, but they have been made and your crying about those decisions accomplishes nothing other than make you look like a little whiney b!tch
The decisions that whiner wants would leave the Texans with no draft choices, no cap space and the loss of third round comp picks in what constitutes a rebuilding phase. Real head issues at work with that one.
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
And the multiple time in a row and current SB champs the Pats disagreed with you about Trent Brown but you didn't seem to let that stop you from believing you were right.
The Patriots and Texans were in 2 different situations. The Pats had only $6 million in cap space, but did have a 2018 1st round SEC LT ready to step in for Brown. The Texans had over $50 million in cap space at the time ($40 million now), and no real option at LT. We have no idea what Belichick would have done if he were in the Texans spot. Of course, he doesn't put his organization in those spots.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
The Patriots and Texans were in 2 different situations. The Pats had only $6 million in cap space, but did have a 2018 1st round SEC LT ready to step in for Brown. The Texans had over $50 million in cap space at the time ($40 million now), and no real option at LT. We have no idea what Belichick would have done if he were in the Texans spot. Of course, he doesn't put his organization in those spots.
Or the Pats, like the Texan's, didn't think a LT with average stats was worth making the highest paid lineman in NFL history.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I'm just stating facts.
Numbers wise your are correct and again you are correct that we don't know what BB would have done. I will say that history does not support that BB would have paid that much as he hasn't really in the past unless its a franchise type player but, again, you are right that history has also shown BB doesn't let the team get like that.

My original point though was that Steel keeps using former SB bowl winning and what they do to support his argument but ignores when a current SB winning team does something that doesn't.
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
My original point though was that Steel keeps using former SB bowl winning and what they do to support his argument but ignores when a current SB winning team does something that doesn't.
OK. But, can the Texans afford to mimic a SB organization when their most valuable commodity (Watson) is facing peril? NFL salaries are escalating rapidly. This time next year, Brown will just be top 10 in OT salary. The year after, he'll be out of the top 10. The only question that should have been asked is, "Would Trent Brown make Deshaun Watson better?" In all honesty, he would have helped. Then the Texans would have only $24 million in cap space, as opposed to $40 million.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
OK. But, can the Texans afford to mimic a SB organization when their most valuable commodity (Watson) is facing peril? NFL salaries are escalating rapidly. This time next year, Brown will just be top 10 in OT salary. The year after, he'll be out of the top 10. The only question that should have been asked is, "Would Trent Brown make Deshaun Watson better?" In all honesty, he would have helped. Then the Texans would have only $24 million in cap space, as opposed to $40 million.
Disagree, with Devlin as the coach and already having average stats on one of the most Oline friendly systems and Oline friendly QBs there is, with a HoF HC and Oline coach, I don't think we would have seen a marked improvement. Certainly not enough to justify that kind of money. Also yeah the salaries are going up but we don't know that the cap will, granted it most likely will but we don't know for sure, or what kind of contract Watson in particular will command or Clowney this year.
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
Also yeah the salaries are going up but we don't know that the cap will, granted it most likely will but we don't know for sure, or what kind of contract Watson in particular will command or Clowney this year.
We don't know the exact cap number, but we know it's going up. Estimated at $200 million in 2020, a $12 million increase. Then, the new TV deals will be negotiated and these numbers will get astronomical.

We don't know what kind of deal Clowney will get, or if he will get one. But any new deal will not have a 2019 cap hit higher than his 2019 tag number. That's just how contracts are worked. Pushing the money out to future years, when the cap is higher.

I don't know what kind of performance numbers you are looking at in regards to Trent Brown. Clearly, Brady makes everyone look better. Including Belichick. But, to suggest that Brown would not help the Texans because of the offensive line coach is perplexing. Why spend any resources on the o-line? Especially a 1st round pick that will really need pro coaching? That argument begs for a vet LT, not against acquiring one.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Dude, the next time you are objectively fair re. the Texans will be the first time. You disagree with decisions made and I get that, but they have been made and your crying about those decisions accomplishes nothing other than make you look like a little whiney b!tch
You're right, they've been made and what's done is done. We can only hope for the best. But pointing out the Texans orgs shortcomings and comparing them to a successful org like the Eagles doesn't make me a whiny *****.

Calling me names isn't the way to go with me. You obviously are trying to live up to your Avatar.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
And the multiple time in a row and current SB champs the Pats disagreed with you about Trent Brown but you didn't seem to let that stop you from believing you were right.
The p Pat's are the outlier. They are a smart org that has already drafted Brown's replacement. A big difference in the way the orgs have been run. This isn't Gaine's fault. He's dealing with the hand he was dealt
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
We don't know the exact cap number, but we know it's going up. Estimated at $200 million in 2020, a $12 million increase. Then, the new TV deals will be negotiated and these numbers will get astronomical.

We don't know what kind of deal Clowney will get, or if he will get one. But any new deal will not have a 2019 cap hit higher than his 2019 tag number. That's just how contracts are worked. Pushing the money out to future years, when the cap is higher.

I don't know what kind of performance numbers you are looking at in regards to Trent Brown. Clearly, Brady makes everyone look better. Including Belichick. But, to suggest that Brown would not help the Texans because of the offensive line coach is perplexing. Why spend any resources on the o-line? Especially a 1st round pick that will really need pro coaching? That argument begs for a vet LT, not against acquiring one.
Brown was ranked 32nd by PFF though I will grant you he had a good playoff run he still was only had a grade of 86 while Davenport had a grade of 76. A ten point difference is not enough to me to justify that kind of money. Add to that he looked to be completely run of the mill with 49ers and then he gets to NE and all of a sudden he's the best Lt in the league? Only thing that changed was Brady and the coaching and now he won't have either of those things.

As far as spending resources on the Oline, first I didn't want them to draft Howard in the first round or even Dillard, I wanted Brown, I know I got the irony to, to have a backup when Fuller or Coutee go down again and then trade up with the Cards in early second to get Howard or whoever. Trouble with a Vet LT is you don't know if they can adjust systems very well especially coming from a well oiled machine like the Pats. How many times have we seen stars in NE become duds when they leave. I'm hoping that with a rookie OT that he can be molded a little easier and that the skill level is high enough to overcome the Oline coaching but I'll admit I'm not that hopeful.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The Patriots and Texans were in 2 different situations. The Pats had only $6 million in cap space, but did have a 2018 1st round SEC LT ready to step in for Brown. The Texans had over $50 million in cap space at the time ($40 million now), and no real option at LT. We have no idea what Belichick would have done if he were in the Texans spot. Of course, he doesn't put his organization in those spots.
Exactly
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The Patriots and Texans were in 2 different situations. The Pats had only $6 million in cap space, but did have a 2018 1st round SEC LT ready to step in for Brown. The Texans had over $50 million in cap space at the time ($40 million now), and no real option at LT. We have no idea what Belichick would have done if he were in the Texans spot. Of course, he doesn't put his organization in those spots.
Exactly
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Brown was ranked 32nd by PFF though I will grant you he had a good playoff run he still was only had a grade of 86 while Davenport had a grade of 76. A ten point difference is not enough to me to justify that kind of money. Add to that he looked to be completely run of the mill with 49ers and then he gets to NE and all of a sudden he's the best Lt in the league? Only thing that changed was Brady and the coaching and now he won't have either of those things.

As far as spending resources on the Oline, first I didn't want them to draft Howard in the first round or even Dillard, I wanted Brown, I know I got the irony to, to have a backup when Fuller or Coutee go down again and then trade up with the Cards in early second to get Howard or whoever. Trouble with a Vet LT is you don't know if they can adjust systems very well especially coming from a well oiled machine like the Pats. How many times have we seen stars in NE become duds when they leave. I'm hoping that with a rookie OT that he can be molded a little easier and that the skill level is high enough to overcome the Oline coaching but I'll admit I'm not that hopeful.
TLTR,

Brown was very good in San Francisco.

32 is middle of the pack. I would take middle of the pack after the last 2 yrs. Gaine would have too but in true Texans orgs fashion didn't want to pay the price to get him.

He had too many FA's to sign to one year deals

Meanwhile Watson isn't protected as well as he could be and the Texans are sitting on the 2nd most cap space in the NFL.

BTW, Signing Brown wouldn't have hurt them at all capwise
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
Brown was ranked 32nd by PFF though I will grant you he had a good playoff run he still was only had a grade of 86 while Davenport had a grade of 76. A ten point difference is not enough to me to justify that kind of money.
As I said, the money is not that relevant. The Texans have plenty now and will have plenty in the future. And I take these PFF numbers with a more than a grain of salt. What did your eyes tell you when you watched Brown and Davenport? Looks like at least $16 million difference, to me. One can do the job, the other cannot.

Here's Belichick's opinion on PFF grading.

“You see a play on film and a receiver goes uncovered down the field. So you know it’s probably one of two guys’ mistakes, so you don’t know which guy it is,” Belichick said on “Ordway, Merloni and Fauria” on Monday during his weekly interview with WEEI. “A lot of times the announcer will say, ‘[This guy] should’ve taken him,’ or, ‘[That guy] should have taken him.’ And I’m looking at the play saying, it could have been either guy, depending on what the call was.”

Belichick admitted sometimes his players will correct him, because he will approach the player with a teaching point only to learn there’s another player at fault because of an adjustment at the line of scrimmage.

“In terms of analytics, you get a lot of, ‘This guy should have him. That guy should have him.’ I know from our team, there are times when we don’t know exactly what went wrong until we sort out the play,” Belichick said on WEEI. “So it’s impossible someone else could have known. Sometimes what it looks like is not what it is.”
Remember, these grades are being doled out by amateurs just like you. It's an opinion based off uneducated guesses.
 

HaveMercy

Passing Through
We'll just have to wait and see what kind of peril DWatson is facing this season. The issue has a lot of moving parts and the solution isn't as easy as saying just do this or just do that.

Whether anyone likes the way they went about it or who they picked, the Texans put some real draft capital into the OLine this year with their early selections. And whether anyone thinks OB and Devlin can do anything with the new linemen, I know the coaches & players will be trying.

Gaine, OB, et al are well aware that Watson can't continue to get whacked around like he has been. We're not the only ones that see that his career and effectiveness stand a strong chance of being damaged if things don't improve.

Also, as has been well said here many times, more needs to be fixed than just the OLine. Quicker recognition & getting rid of the ball faster by DWatson will help a lot. That's how Brady often beats rushers. So the Texans have brought in Carl Smith to help DWatson the way he was able to help Russell Wilson.

Better play design will also make a big difference, but the biggest part of that is having Coutee and Fuller healthy, plus developing another couple of young receivers.

I'm not telling you guys anything new. The Texans are trying to take steps that will help protect DWatson's health and future. A lot of folks here don't like the steps they have or haven't taken, and that's okay, we can talk about it calmly and rationally. But they're definitely taking steps.

And while I'm posting, can we please talk to each other like grown men and dispense with the personal attacks, crude comments, and name-calling? We may not agree with each other, but we should always agree to be civil about it. As I've said before, argument by ridicule is really no argument at all.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
We'll just have to wait and see what kind of peril DWatson is facing this season. The issue has a lot of moving parts and the solution isn't as easy as saying just do this or just do that.

Whether anyone likes the way they went about it or who they picked, the Texans put some real draft capital into the OLine this year with their early selections. And whether anyone thinks OB and Devlin can do anything with the new linemen, I know the coaches & players will be trying.

Gaine, OB, et al are well aware that Watson can't continue to get whacked around like he has been. We're not the only ones that see that his career and effectiveness stand a strong chance of being damaged if things don't improve.

Also, as has been well said here many times, more needs to be fixed than just the OLine. Quicker recognition & getting rid of the ball faster by DWatson will help a lot. That's how Brady often beats rushers. So the Texans have brought in Carl Smith to help DWatson the way he was able to help Russell Wilson.

Better play design will also make a big difference, but the biggest part of that is having Coutee and Fuller healthy, plus developing another couple of young receivers.

I'm not telling you guys anything new. The Texans are trying to take steps that will help protect DWatson's health and future. A lot of folks here don't like the steps they have or haven't taken, and that's okay, we can talk about it calmly and rationally. But they're definitely taking steps.

And while I'm posting, can we please talk to each other like grown men and dispense with the personal attacks, crude comments, and name-calling? We may not agree with each other, but we should always agree to be civil about it. As I've said before, argument by ridicule is really no argument at all.
Great post,

This is exactly where I'm at.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
TLTR,

Brown was very good in San Francisco.

32 is middle of the pack. I would take middle of the pack after the last 2 yrs. Gaine would have too but in true Texans orgs fashion didn't want to pay the price to get him.

He had too many FA's to sign to one year deals

Meanwhile Watson isn't protected as well as he could be and the Texans are sitting on the 2nd most cap space in the NFL.

BTW, Signing Brown wouldn't have hurt them at all capwise
So you admit that he was middle of the pack but you are willing to make a middle of the pack guy the highest paid OT in history. Not sure I can trust your judgement when you say that it wouldn't have hurt us cap wise when your solution to any problem seems to be throw more money at it.

As I said, the money is not that relevant. The Texans have plenty now and will have plenty in the future. And I take these PFF numbers with a more than a grain of salt. What did your eyes tell you when you watched Brown and Davenport? Looks like at least $16 million difference, to me. One can do the job, the other cannot.

Here's Belichick's opinion on PFF grading.


Remember, these grades are being doled out by amateurs just like you. It's an opinion based off uneducated guesses.

I'm going to try and not take that personally but I haven't seen much from you to show you are any less and amateur or any more educated. Also your quote from BB doesn't address PFF grading at all. He was talking about announcers when looking at the plays and all he said was depending on the play called it could have gone different ways, well no sh!t Sherlock.


Nope. The Texans gave a hefty offer. We just stroke out. The Patriots on the other hand is known for not giving out big time contracts.
I looked and couldn't find anything about what the offer was. All I found was Brown saying that he had three offers, Pats, Texans and Raiders and that the Raiders offer was a no brainer. If you found differently please link it to me.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
He's a middle of the pack LT (Which I would take in a heartbeat after seeing the last 2 yrs of OL play.) and a very good RT which he will be playing for the Raiders next yr.

You gotta pay to play and the Texans org would rather not play than have to pay. This is why they are a draft only type team. When you make mistakes in the draft you have to overpay for those sins in FA if you want to be relevant. The Texans dont pay for their sins and therefore haven't been relevant.
 

JB

Innocent Bystander
Contributor's Club
You're right, they've been made and what's done is done. We can only hope for the best. But pointing out the Texans orgs shortcomings and comparing them to a successful org like the Eagles doesn't make me a whiny *****.

Calling me names isn't the way to go with me. You obviously are trying to live up to your Avatar.
You're right. My apologies. I honestky didn't call you a name though, not even in my head, just stated what it looked like. I know better than that too. Again my apologies
 
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