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Brian Gaine Thread

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thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Numbers wise your are correct and again you are correct that we don't know what BB would have done. I will say that history does not support that BB would have paid that much as he hasn't really in the past unless its a franchise type player but, again, you are right that history has als
We know BB didn't think Brown was a franchise LT. He was a stopgap.

Similarly the Texans don't see Brown as more than a stopgap, one they, like the Patriots were only willing to pay so much for.

The Raiders also dont see Brown as. Franchise LT. He's a stopgap. They are willing to pay for him in that role while also filling in at RT.

The Texans feel, I think, Davenport is a stopgap. Not as good as Brown, but there was a line they weren't willing to cross in paying Brown. They believe Kalil may be a better stopgap
 

Dejaview

Rookie
We'll just have to wait and see what kind of peril DWatson is facing this season. The issue has a lot of moving parts and the solution isn't as easy as saying just do this or just do that.

Whether anyone likes the way they went about it or who they picked, the Texans put some real draft capital into the OLine this year with their early selections. And whether anyone thinks OB and Devlin can do anything with the new linemen, I know the coaches & players will be trying.

Gaine, OB, et al are well aware that Watson can't continue to get whacked around like he has been. We're not the only ones that see that his career and effectiveness stand a strong chance of being damaged if things don't improve.

Also, as has been well said here many times, more needs to be fixed than just the OLine. Quicker recognition & getting rid of the ball faster by DWatson will help a lot. That's how Brady often beats rushers. So the Texans have brought in Carl Smith to help DWatson the way he was able to help Russell Wilson.

Better play design will also make a big difference, but the biggest part of that is having Coutee and Fuller healthy, plus developing another couple of young receivers.

I'm not telling you guys anything new. The Texans are trying to take steps that will help protect DWatson's health and future. A lot of folks here don't like the steps they have or haven't taken, and that's okay, we can talk about it calmly and rationally. But they're definitely taking steps.

And while I'm posting, can we please talk to each other like grown men and dispense with the personal attacks, crude comments, and name-calling? We may not agree with each other, but we should always agree to be civil about it. As I've said before, argument by ridicule is really no argument at all.
Lol, does that include ridicule of every coach, most players, the owner and FO also? You see?
 
There is also the unspoken issue with the Raiders in that they are moving to Vegas so they are trying to catch the eye of a whole new fan base while trying to hang on to as many current fans as they can. They can't do it with their winning record so, for now at least, they have to do it with splashy, headline grabbing signings.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
There is also the unspoken issue with the Raiders in that they are moving to Vegas so they are trying to catch the eye of a whole new fan base while trying to hang on to as many current fans as they can. They can't do it with their winning record so, for now at least, they have to do it with splashy, headline grabbing signings.
Or they are committed to getting the best players on their team as possible when they get to Vegas.
 

banned1976

American
I think mocking the Texans in a draft is going to be easier, at least the first four or five rounds. O’Brien has an emphasis on long, athletic and “coachable” players and the two of them, Gaine and OB are drafting for need. You just can’t look at the obvious guys. Oh, and always if there’s a whiff of a character red flag, that player doesn’t even make it on the Texans big board.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
As I said, the money is not that relevant. The Texans have plenty now and will have plenty in the future. And I take these PFF numbers with a more than a grain of salt. What did your eyes tell you when you watched Brown and Davenport? Looks like at least $16 million difference, to me. One can do the job, the other cannot.

Here's Belichick's opinion on PFF grading.



Remember, these grades are being doled out by amateurs just like you. It's an opinion based off uneducated guesses.
I don't always agree with the PFF ratings. But what I find so entertaining on this board is that members can throw accolades at the accuracy of some players' PFF ratings while entirely discounting other players' ratings as invalid.................whatever fits their narratives.
 
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CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
This is from THE ESPN INSIDER.............by the very well-respected senior ESPN writer, Mike Sando who annually gathers information from "insiders" (executives, scout, coaches, etc), who all give their opinions of each of the NFL organizations:

Offseason grades for all 32 NFL teams


We're deep into another NFL offseason and that means report-card time has arrived.

Come for the grades, stay for the commentary from execs, evaluators and coaches throughout the league.

We've covered all 32 teams while fully aware that each organization, each market and each situation carries its own set of opportunities and challenges.

Houston Texans
Grade: B

Rebuilding the offensive line was the Texans' overriding responsibility this offseason. They did that by signing veteran tackle Matt Kalil before using first- and second-round picks for tackles Tytus Howard (23rd overall) and Max Scharping (56th).

"I think they improved," an evaluator said. "Guys they added in the draft come from smaller schools and are not sexy names, but they are good football players. Tytus Howard is raw and it might take him a while, but once he gets it, he has a chance to be as good or better than than any tackles drafted by anyone else."

That might soften the sting from Philly leapfrogging Houston in the first round to select tackle Andre Dillard.

Execs thought the Texans would suffer without defensive back Tyrann Mathieu, who signed with Kansas City. They also wondered what the future might hold for franchise player Jadeveon Clowney. Some thought a trade could still be in the works if a long-term deal is elusive.

"I would guess there was a point in the past when they thought J.J. Watt might be done, so they would pay Clowney and move on from Watt," an exec said. "J.J. has come back at a higher level than most of us expected. Now, they have both of them and have to rebuild the offensive line, which is why you can throw out that best-player-available talk in the draft. Sometimes, the cap and your payroll force you to draft need."

Loading up on line prospects in the draft was the cheaper alternative to paying top dollar for veteran free agents.

"When you sign those veteran guys, you could be drafting their replacements in two years anyway," an exec said.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Huh? The 2018 picks were almost unanimously praised. There were questions about the Akins pick so early (late 3rd). The other picks were praised, profusely.

Reid
Rankin
Akins
Coutee
Ejiofor
Thomas

And the questioning and headscratching this year are generated from one pick. The overwhelming majority are happy with the picks from the 2nd round on. It's the first pick. And I haven't seen anyone suggest Howard is a bust. The criticism stems from, why take a raw player so early, why not maneuver in the draft and take the same player, or why not maneuver in the draft and select a more accomplished player? All legitimate questions. And that criticism is from less than 50% of the fanbase that resides here.

Gaine has been on the job for 18 months. Everything he has touched has not turned to gold. There are concerns from some that he has not done enough to protect the franchise QB we have waited so long for. I hope Gaine has made the right decision. I think even the most strident critics of Gaine hope that, as well. Let's just not hoist him up on a pedestal, yet. It could be a long fall.
It's not necessarily the players, it's the way the Texans go about it. The players may turn out to be great players, or at least decent, which is why you wait a few years to judge a draft, but the Texans had the same issues last year with no 1st or 2nd, and they draft not one, but two TEs. With limited picks and so many issues, that just seemed like a bad strategy.

Fast forward, we think those TEs will be decent contributors and are happy with the players themselves, but then the Texans rarely involve the TE, so we don't really know. And then they go TE again in the 3rd round in this draft. ???

When they finally have a 1st and they finally address OL, they go with a division 2A player. I don't care how many success stories of 2A players you throw out there, and Howard may turn out to be one of them, you're taking a real gamble with smaller school guys making it. It's hard enough for power 5 players.

32 teams drafted 55 non-power 5 players this past draft (1.7 per team average) and the Texans drafted 4 of them. It's fine to throw down on a long shot every once in a while, but you don't make that your base way of doing things. That seems like a bad strategy and that's the issue I have.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
It's not necessarily the players, it's the way the Texans go about it. The players may turn out to be great players, or at least decent, which is why you wait a few years to judge a draft, but the Texans had the same issues last year with no 1st or 2nd, and they draft not one, but two TEs. With limited picks and so many issues, that just seemed like a bad strategy.

Fast forward, we think those TEs will be decent contributors and are happy with the players themselves, but then the Texans rarely involve the TE, so we don't really know. And then they go TE again in the 3rd round in this draft. ???

When they finally have a 1st and they finally address OL, they go with a division 2A player. I don't care how many success stories of 2A players you throw out there, and Howard may turn out to be one of them, you're taking a real gamble with smaller school guys making it. It's hard enough for power 5 players.

32 teams drafted 55 non-power 5 players this past draft (1.7 per team average) and the Texans drafted 4 of them. It's fine to throw down on a long shot every once in a while, but you don't make that your base way of doing things. That seems like a bad strategy and that's the issue I have.
Well said
 

dream_team

All Pro
He's a middle of the pack LT (Which I would take in a heartbeat after seeing the last 2 yrs of OL play.) and a very good RT which he will be playing for the Raiders next yr.

You gotta pay to play and the Texans org would rather not play than have to pay. This is why they are a draft only type team. When you make mistakes in the draft you have to overpay for those sins in FA if you want to be relevant. The Texans dont pay for their sins and therefore haven't been relevant.
You are willing to make a middle of the pack LT the highest paid LT in NFL history!?!?!

Thank God you are no where close to the Texans Front Office. I'd rather root for a mediocre franchise, than the laughing stock of the league that you would have built.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
You are willing to make a middle of the pack LT the highest paid LT in NFL history!?!?!

Thank God you are no where close to the Texans Front Office. I'd rather root for a mediocre franchise, than the laughing stock of the league that you would have built.
A guy that is an upgrade at LT and is an upper tier RT is worth the $$$$, according to the Raiders. Also according to Gaine but Gaine didn't want to pay top $$$$, he just wanted to pay top 5 $$$$.

You're acting like the McNair's $$$$ is yours. You should be very happy that the Texans have the 2nd most cap space in the NFL, at the expense of the on the field product.

This really comes down to how good of an OT do you think Brown is? Last time I saw Brown he was clearing the path for a GW TD in a SB. I think he can do that as a 25 yr old LT and I know what he can do at RT and that's worth the $$$$ to me but not to you, so you will have to agree to disagree with the Raiders/Me.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
So when the Pats are used as an example that supports your argument, you agree with it.

When the Pats are used as an example that negates your argument, you say the Pats are an outlier.

Got it!
The Pats are the outlier because they have GOAT's at HC/QB. They also plan for the future better than most orgs, including the Texans. Until this changes, or BB/Brady retire then you can expect the Texans to remain behind the Pats.

Example of BB's forward thinking, drafting Garappolo even though he had the GOAT already playing QB. Do you think that the Texans would ever do something like this? I dont.
 
A guy that is an upgrade at LT and is an upper tier RT is worth the $$$$, according to the Raiders. Also according to Gaine but Gaine didn't want to pay top $$$$, he just wanted to pay top 5 $$$$.

You're acting like the McNair's $$$$ is yours. You should be very happy that the Texans have the 2nd most cap space in the NFL, at the expense of the on the field product.

This really comes down to how good of an OT do you think Brown is? Last time I saw Brown he was clearing the path for a GW TD in a SB. I think he can do that as a 25 yr old LT and I know what he can do at RT and that's worth the $$$$ to me but not to you, so you will have to agree to disagree with the Raiders/Me.
That would be the same Raiders that let Khalil Mack go and then turned around and made a middle of the pack LT that will now be protecting Derek Carr, a QB that is about as far from Brady as you can get and still be called a franchise QB, the highest paid OT in history. And this is the team you want the Texans to be like? No thanks.

You keep going on and on about people acting like McNairs money is theirs and if this was baseball, no salary cap and owners can spend as much as they want, you might have an arguement but it’s not about wanting The McNairs to keep their money. It’s about not wanting the team to over pay and possibly have Osweiler 2.0 and/or put us in cap hell.

Oh and last time I saw Brown he was playing in front of the GOAT QB while being coached by the GOAT HC and possibly the GOAT Oline coach. If you can’t have a good year as a lineman under those circumstances you have no business in the NFL.
 
The Pats are the outlier because they have GOAT's at HC/QB. They also plan for the future better than most orgs, including the Texans. Until this changes, or BB/Brady retire then you can expect the Texans to remain behind the Pats.

Example of BB's forward thinking, drafting Garappolo even though he had the GOAT already playing QB. Do you think that the Texans would ever do something like this? I dont.
Who they traded so if Brady went down tomorrow Pats, not counting ability of the coach, would be just as screwed as the Texans if Watson went down.

Not saying they don’t plan ahead, they do, but having Brady for 17 years has given them more freedom than most teams because they can draft for depth and he restructures when they are about to have a cap issue. Even still not everything the Pats have touched has turned to gold......though it has at times deflated.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
You're acting like the McNair's $$$$ is yours. You should be very happy that the Texans have the 2nd most cap space in the NFL, at the expense of the on the field product.
I remember when Texian would point to our lack of free cap space as evidence of Texans FO mismanagement. We had a lot of money tied up in players, but without a QB we were nowhere near a contender.

Hopefully Gaine & BO'b have a plan.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
Every team is required to spend 92% of the cap over a period of years.
89% over a rolling 4 year period.

I have posted the actual numbers for the Texans at least twice. Until the last year of RS the Texans were always 97 to 99&. Iirc his last year fell to 94-95%. As TK mentionad there was a cabal of posters who constantly beotched about not building up more cap. There was also a smaller group who would beotch fthey weren't spending every last dime. Under Gaine that number has dropped to low 90's.

Steeb wants to argue it is a consistant ownership cheapness. It demonstably is not. Any cheapness has existed only under Gaine.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Who they traded so if Brady went down tomorrow Pats, not counting ability of the coach, would be just as screwed as the Texans if Watson went down.

Not saying they don’t plan ahead, they do, but having Brady for 17 years has given them more freedom than most teams because they can draft for depth and he restructures when they are about to have a cap issue. Even still not everything the Pats have touched has turned to gold......though it has at times deflated.
Agreed

Parity
 

disaacks3

Moderator
Staff member
BG in just a little over a year has largely reconstructed the OL while adding three new draft picks, promoted a new OC and hired DW a top notch QB coach (while reconstructing the completely neglected TE and S positions, etc.). Sounds like a pretty good one year resume but of course that’s not good enough for some here.
What do you want us to grade on? Please don't say performance. If we grade on that, the OL unit gets an "F".
 

281Texan

Waterboy
I’m already ready for this guy to go. I wish we had Dorsey. Dorsey makes moves and will probably end up with Trent Williams. They’ll compete for Super Bowls and we’ll talk about 9 game win streaks against bad teams and winning the AFC South.

If only Tillman had bought the Texans and not the rockets..
 
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