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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!

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maverick512000 said:
Woah there cowboy (pun intended) I never said you couldn't post your opinions about anything here, that's for the mods to decide. If you go back, and it's pretty far back at this point, what started all this was you talking about how you had every right to basically tell Cal, and I will agree you said you would never speak to him in person, how to build the team. The whole "on a Texan message board" is a recent addition and was not included in your first post.
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Woah there cowboy, don't give me this "basically" stuff. I either said it or I didn't. We're on a message board, you knew that when I made the comment. Unless you can specifically show(not basically) where I said I have the right to say it to Cal, then you're misquoting me and have been. I've been happy to back up my comments, now you do me the courtesy of showing exactly where I said I had the right to say it to Cal.
 
Mav, if you want to save yourself some time, this was in the very first post I made directed to you in this thread...

"I'll never speak to Cal but I've got every right to say whatever I want about his team."

I don't know how I could have been any clearer and how you got I said I had the right to tell him.
 
Mr teX said:
One of the things Eagles DE Chris Long said after the eagles game against us was "We knew they were going to use alot of 7 man protections...."
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The fact that our opponent knew what the Texans were going to do, don't you see that as a coaching problem? I know our OL sucks and needs help in pass-pro, but there are other ways to help pass-pro than always be in max-protect.
 
ColeThornton said:
Woah there cowboy, don't give me this "basically" stuff. I either said it or I didn't. We're on a message board, you knew that when I made the comment. Unless you can specifically show(not basically) where I said I have the right to say it to Cal, then you're misquoting me and have been. I've been happy to back up my comments, now you do me the courtesy of showing exactly where I said I had the right to say it to Cal.
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No actually I didn't know you were talking about saying it on a message board only. Also again I don't think you understand what a misquote is, if I had done something like this...

"I have the right to tell Cal how to run his team"

That would be a misquote but seeing as we use the built in quote feature that's a little hard to do unless I intentionally go in and edit it which would be stupid on my part because that would be easy to show that I changed your quote.

I will grant you I might have misinterpreted you but that is not the same as misquoting. Overall though I get the sense you are starting to take this personally and that's not any fun so if you are let's just stop it right here and we can say you won. Cool?
 
maverick512000 said:
No actually I didn't know you were talking about saying it on a message board only. Also again I don't think you understand what a misquote is, if I had done something like this...

"I have the right to tell Cal how to run his team"

That would be a misquote but seeing as we use the built in quote feature that's a little hard to do unless I intentionally go in and edit it which would be stupid on my part because that would be easy to show that I changed your quote.

I will grant you I might have misinterpreted you but that is not the same as misquoting. Overall though I get the sense you are starting to take this personally and that's not any fun so if you are let's just stop it right here and we can say you won. Cool?
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There you go again. If you said I said I had the right to tell him when I really said "I'll never speak to Cal", what difference does it make. You're still posting things credited to me that I didn't say.

"I will grant you I might have misinterpreted you but that is not the same as misquoting."

Not only did you misinterpret me, you've also stated I posted something I didn't. If you feel better not calling it a misquote fine. But your the same guy that told me how important reading is. Understanding what you read is important too!

PS I'm cool Id rather be friends

"Bull you think you can hit that bell"
"Give me another rifle and I'll play Marching through Georgia"
 
Mr teX said:
Can't take anything away from Gibbs...he is/was a great o-line coach..but he was more of a teacher here as he was not officially listed as the o-line coach when he was here...John Benton was. Gibbs bascially came in for a few years, taught the scheme & Benton coached the o-line through its most successful years under Kubiak. Even then though talent still trumped the scheme.

the o-line upon Gibbs' arrival started out with talented bookends already in place:

Eric Winston 3 years in at RT.......
Duane Brown was drafted the year prior.

In addition to this, Myers was also brought in the same year Gibbs arrived, a guy familiar with the zone blocking scheme from his days in Denver.

But again, it still took a few years for that o-line to come together after Gibbs had already come & gone.

Shouldn't be overlooked that the prototype back for that type of blocking scheme in Foster also burst onto the scene that same year either....
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I think the point was we brought in guys that weren't very talented, but the coaches helped make them play better and the scheme did a great job of hiding their weaknesses.

Wade Smith - backup signed with Texans for 3-mil/year
Chris Myers - traded for a 6th rounder
Eric Brisiel - udfa
Eric Winston - 3rd round pick
You even mention Arian Foster, another udfa.

Except for Duane Brown, all guys that weren't heralded very highly, but somehow, were very productive players in that Texans system.

I think it's a fair question to ask, have we seen this type of development under BOB? Has there been any offensive player that got better when they joined the Texans?
 
ColeThornton said:
There you go again. If you said I said I had the right to tell him when I really said "I'll never speak to Cal", what difference does it make. You're still posting things credited to me that I didn't say.

"I will grant you I might have misinterpreted you but that is not the same as misquoting."

Not only did you misinterpret me, you've also stated I posted something I didn't. If you feel better not calling it a misquote fine. But your the same guy that told me how important reading is. Understanding what you read is important too!

PS I'm cool Id rather be friends
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Just to clarify then I will give you the last word and we can drop this. I know you didn't say what I put in the quotations marks. That was the whole point, I was giving an example of what me misquoting you might look like. That was why I made sure to separate it from anything else.
 
maverick512000 said:
Just to clarify then I will give you the last word and we can drop this. I know you didn't say what I put in the quotations marks. That was the whole point, I was giving an example of what me misquoting you might look like. That was why I made sure to separate it from anything else.
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That's cool but whether it's "technically" a misquote or saying someone said something when they didn't, what is the substantive difference?

Just that one is in """ and one isn't.

"I don't remember the words, but you better say I do."
 
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maverick512000 said:
Also I have never made excuses for BoB or anybody else I've just tried to look at the whole picture without letting emotions get involved. In fact I'm one of the few that said Smith got a raw deal in taking all the blame for the QB carousel we were on. I've also said that I hate BoB as an OC and I don't think he is the QB guru we were promised. However, that doesn't mean I can't see the good points he brings with the bad. Again it's that black and white thing with you, either a person hates BoB and want him gone or they are making excuses for him.

Honestly if they announced tha tBoB was fired tomorrow I wouldn't feel one way or the other about it. My first question would be, ok who are we getting to replace him and how long are we going to be in rebuild mode before they have their system and players in place. I take it back, I would feel some happiness about it because it would mean I would have tons of new threads and posts to read while at work to relieve any boredom I feel in the down time. So yeah from that point of view break out the torches and pitch forks and let's tar and feather his butt shaped chin.
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Can anyone here enlighten myself and possibly others who have no idea who started the "QB guru", "QB genius" or "QB whisperer" moniker for BOB???

If it's all based on Hackenberg then that was fake news of the highest order.

I just don't know how that ever started or why. Brady told him to pound sand and most of us could see back in 2007 that Brady was on his way to GOAT status so how did that start?
 
Texazan said:
Can anyone here enlighten myself and possibly others who have no idea who started the "QB guru", "QB genius" or "QB whisperer" moniker for BOB???

If it's all based on Hackenberg then that was fake news of the highest order.

I just don't know how that ever started or why. Brady told him to pound sand and most of us could see back in 2007 that Brady was on his way to GOAT status so how did that start?
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You would have to go back to the OB is hired thread. I think someone (maybe J Soloman) callled him a QB guru and some here picked it up and ran with it
 
gary said:
Is BB or Payton an offensive guru without Brady or Brees? Heck, Kubiak won with an all time great QB. He’s a great coach, correct? I would say some great fortune is definitely involved in coaching and team success.
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And that really is the ultimate question isn't it. Does the QB make the coach or does the coach make the QB? And how much is one influenced by the other? If you were to move Tom Brady to another team his rookie season does he still become the GOAT? Likewise if you were to take away Tom Brady does BB still build a football dynasty?

Or to bring it closer to home if BoB had gotten Watson within the first two years does this thread still get created? Of course there are no way to answer any of these questions but they are still worth asking and thinking about.
 
Texansballer74 said:
The Colts fired their oline coach.
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In all the post(s) after Texansballer74's, I can't believe none of you jumped at the chance to respond. This is a freaking amazing gift.....and it's after ducking Christmas!!!!

So, Frank Reich has decided he can't live with OL Coach, Dave Deguglielmo b/c he was Josh McDaniels hire and not "his" guy. The architect behind developing and fielding probably the best and one of the youngest OL's in the NFL this past season.

Bullhorn message to OB.....DUE TO YOUR INSANE LOYALTY, IT'S TIME TO MAKE DEVLIN YOUR ASST HC OR OC AND HIRE DAVE DEGUGLIELMO AS THE NEW OL COACH!!!!!!

With the Texans having young players who are lost in the Devlin development and potentially as many as 3 potentially joining the group after the draft, Dave would be the first guy I would be calling if I were OB and my HC'ing career was important to me.

This guy did a tremendous job with turning the Colts OL around....#5 in the NFL and they only surrendered 18 sacks....with Luck's help. I think a hiring such as this could pay immediate dividends to the psyche of Watson, especially if they add 2 or 3 studs from the draft. With a good mix of veterans and youth, not to mention Watson, this could be a quick turnaround in regards to the OL development.

This would represent a very solid knee-jerk reaction move on Cal, Gaine and OB's part but it could prove to be the best one of all.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
Bullhorn message to OB.....DUE TO YOUR INSANE LOYALTY, IT'S TIME TO MAKE DEVLIN YOUR ASST HC OR OC AND HIRE DAVE DEGUGLIELMO AS THE NEW OL COACH!!!!!!


This would represent a very solid knee-jerk reaction move on Cal, Gaine and OB's part but it could prove to be the best one of all.
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Part one... you got to be kidding me

Part two... yeah would be a dumba$$ knee-jerk reaction
 
mussop said:
At what point do we stop blaming it on talent acquisition? I mean we’ve spent a fair amount of resources on the OL. Davenport, Rankins, Suafulo, Martin all drafted in the last 4 years. We’ve brought in a crapload of free agents. Allen and Fulton were both really good at KC. Kelemete was good in New Orleans. All these guys have regressed or haven’t improved. At some point the coaching has to get some of the blame. Devlin is the OB of OL coaches. His vanilla ass needs to go to. Adding talent isn’t going to fix the problem if they come here and don’t get good coaching.
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Believe me I’m no Devlin fan, and I’d dance a jig if they replaced him with a really good coach. I posted in another thread that since his contract was up in Pitt, I’d offer Munchak whatever it took to bring him in to the fold. I said what i said about talent acquisition because i hope Gaine turns out to be a really good GM, not to shift focus off the poor job Devlin has done
 
otisbean said:
Believe me I’m no Devlin fan, and I’d dance a jig if they replaced him with a really good coach. I posted in another thread that since his contract was up in Pitt, I’d offer Munchak whatever it took to bring him in to the fold. I said what i said about talent acquisition because i hope Gaine turns out to be a really good GM, not to shift focus off the poor job Devlin has done
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Munchak already accepted the job in Denver where his daughter and granddaughter live. He already decided in 2014 he didn't want to be apart of O'Brien's staff, and it appears he is making his decisions based upon family(he and his wife are from the Pitt area so they have family there as well)

I am interested to see how it plays out in Denver, apparently they were very close to hiring Mike as their HC. So I wonder how Fangio feels having a guy on his staff that almost had his job, wonder how much he will be looking over his shoulder or how quickly Elway will switch gears if its not working
 
Shishkabob said:
Munchak already accepted the job in Denver where his daughter and granddaughter live. He already decided in 2014 he didn't want to be apart of O'Brien's staff, and it appears he is making his decisions based upon family(he and his wife are from the Pitt area so they have family there as well)

I am interested to see how it plays out in Denver, apparently they were very close to hiring Mike as their HC. So I wonder how Fangio feels having a guy on his staff that almost had his job, wonder how much he will be looking over his shoulder or how quickly Elway will switch gears if its not working
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I just saw that. It’s a bummer. I was hopeful that since they wanted him previously they’d go after him again. Oh well
 
otisbean said:
I just saw that. It’s a bummer. I was hopeful that since they wanted him previously they’d go after him again. Oh well
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I wonder if they would have as well, but it seems like his choice this off season was always going to be going to Denver or staying in Pitt. Can't blame him for wanting to be near family just wish he would have left some family here from his days with the Oilers lol
 
disaacks3 said:
Agree to disagree on this take. I think there's some things he does well. I think there's some things he does poorly. We're allowed to truly despise the things he does poorly.

But, it all comes down to your record.

He's a whopping two games over .500 (42-38 overall)
He's 11-27 vs. teams with a winning record (by end of season)
He's 1-3 in Playoff games (with one of only 5 home-game shutouts in modern NFL history)
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I've seen this a few times now and I'm not sure what you are expecting. The talent level on this team is barely above average. O'Brien certainly isn't outperforming expectations, but those records are basically what you'd expect to see with a borderline playoff team. In the bottom third of the top half of the league.
 
noxiousdog said:
I've seen this a few times now and I'm not sure what you are expecting. The talent level on this team is barely above average. O'Brien certainly isn't outperforming expectations, but those records are basically what you'd expect to see with a borderline playoff team. In the bottom third of the top half of the league.
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He' s a bad talent evaluator. Can't even identify who should start where on the OL.
 
TheKDog said:
He' s a bad talent evaluator. Can't even identify who should start where on the OL.
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Ok maybe its my lack of knowledge on football but I thought HC had assistant coaches that specialized in each area. For example when the defense was doing great everyone was saying its not BoB its RAC that's doing that. By the same token don't we have an Offensive Line coach? Wouldn't it be his call where to play someone or did he get overruled or is that decided by the HC and the O line coach is just there for training camps or....?

I know BoB took over the job of OC, and I wish that would change, so yeah calling the plays is on him. I guess my question is what actually is the HC job? I always saw the HS as basically the President with all of the different department heads reporting to him but it sounds like, at least in the Texan's case, the HC decides everything. Or at least everything that goes wrong.
 
JB said:
Can't stand Devlin, but your proposal is a dumba$$ knee reaction
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I based my opinion on what he did with the Colts and not what happened in NE. Maybe your opinion is based solely on what happened in NE and not what he accomplished last season with the Colts.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I based my opinion on what he did with the Colts and not what happened in NE. Maybe your opinion is based solely on what happened in NE and not what he accomplished last season with the Colts.
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He didn't do great with the Jets either. He didn't do good with the Colts until they added Nelson/Smith and Kelly got healthy
 
maverick512000 said:
And that really is the ultimate question isn't it. Does the QB make the coach or does the coach make the QB? And how much is one influenced by the other? If you were to move Tom Brady to another team his rookie season does he still become the GOAT? Likewise if you were to take away Tom Brady does BB still build a football dynasty?

Or to bring it closer to home if BoB had gotten Watson within the first two years does this thread still get created? Of course there are no way to answer any of these questions but they are still worth asking and thinking about.
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The thing is the coach and G.M. have to know who to draft or trade for their team. Sometimes things work out and sometimes they do not. Correct combinations are the most important thing in sports.
 
gary said:
The thing is the coach and G.M. have to know who to draft or trade for their team. Sometimes things work out and sometimes they do not. Correct combinations are the most important thing in life.
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FIFY :D
 
maverick512000 said:
Ok maybe its my lack of knowledge on football but I thought HC had assistant coaches that specialized in each area. For example when the defense was doing great everyone was saying its not BoB its RAC that's doing that. By the same token don't we have an Offensive Line coach? Wouldn't it be his call where to play someone or did he get overruled or is that decided by the HC and the O line coach is just there for training camps or....?

I know BoB took over the job of OC, and I wish that would change, so yeah calling the plays is on him. I guess my question is what actually is the HC job? I always saw the HS as basically the President with all of the different department heads reporting to him but it sounds like, at least in the Texan's case, the HC decides everything. Or at least everything that goes wrong.
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I don't think the assistants choose who to start and where.

It sounds more like the OB defenders want to blame other people besides the HC. HC isn't just a delegating position like a board of directors. Thats ownerships job.
 
TheKDog said:
I don't think the assistants choose who to start and where.

It sounds more like the OB defenders want to blame other people besides the HC. HC isn't just a delegating position like a board of directors. Thats ownerships job.
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So just to clarify are you listing me as an BoB supporter? Just want to be clear before I reply.
 
noxiousdog said:
I've seen this a few times now and I'm not sure what you are expecting. The talent level on this team is barely above average. O'Brien certainly isn't outperforming expectations, but those records are basically what you'd expect to see with a borderline playoff team. In the bottom third of the top half of the league.
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I have to disagree on the talent level. We actually have some very high end talent, Watt, Clowney, McKinney, Hopkins,Watson, and Kareem (as a S). We also have some guys that have played very well in the past that were off this year in Whitney and Colvin, and some good players in Martin, Miller. Add in our rookie class and we are doing pretty well.

IMO, our problem is we are definitely below average in 2 critical areas: OL(TE included as a blocker) and CB. I also think our depth could be a bit better.

I think we would have won 12-13 games this year if Fuller and Coutee could just stay on the field. Our offense is so much better with Fuller, Coutee looks terrific when he’s on the field as well.
 
TheKDog said:
I don't think the assistants choose who to start and where.

It sounds more like the OB defenders want to blame other people besides the HC. HC isn't just a delegating position like a board of directors. Thats ownerships job.
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Whyever not? Surely you don't think OB makes the decision independent of input from the specialist he thinks so highly of?
 
TheKDog said:
No just sounds how the people who don't want him fired look at the situation
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While I do agree that some make excuses for him to the point of stupidity I also think some blame him for things completely out of his control. For many on here there doesn't seem to be any middle ground or acknowledgement that he has both good points and bad points. Whether BoB can up his game (no pun intended) and win the playoff games I don't know but I do know that firing him and bringing in a new HC will not magically fix all our problems. In fact it will make new ones because then that guy will need 3-5 years to get his system and players in place. To many on here think that the year we replace BoB is the year we win a SB and I don't see that as realistic. I still say he earned another year to try because, Colts game aside, turning a 0-3 season into a 9 game winning streak, division championship and one game away from being 2nd seed in the playoffs is impressive. If next year is more of the same I'm sure I'll feel different.
 
noxiousdog said:
I've seen this a few times now and I'm not sure what you are expecting. The talent level on this team is barely above average. O'Brien certainly isn't outperforming expectations, but those records are basically what you'd expect to see with a borderline playoff team. In the bottom third of the top half of the league.
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You're making the assumption that the team is talent-poor. If it was, O'Brien truly would be outperforming expectations. We possess more than one "top 5 at their position" players in the NFL (at least one on each side of the ball).

While most fans lament the lost years of horrible to sub-average QB play, they forget that O'Brien was instrumental in bringing that 'talent' here. Those decisions had draft selection and salary cap impacts to this team still felt today. O'Brien was complicit in backing us into some of those particular corners, and I refuse to give him a pass on it.

The question has been asked if O'Brien was supposed to represent some sort of Offensive 'guru'. I'm still waiting to see it. The lack of anything close to a "proven" OC during his tenure speaks to at least his own internal belief that he possesses that sort of ability. While all head coaches tend to think they're the smartest guy in the room, the best ones seek out assistance in areas not only in which they are weak, but areas they are perceived to be weak in.
 
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JB said:
Whyever not? Surely you don't think OB makes the decision independent of input from the specialist he thinks so highly of?
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I don't think he makes decisions independent of input. But I think he makes the final decision on who to start and where.
 
JB said:
Whyever not? Surely you don't think OB makes the decision independent of input from the specialist he thinks so highly of?
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Yup. If he’s making the decision on who starts on that OL... then he’s in over his head. This is the pros. I want to hear from the guys I hired to exclusively work that squad whatever it may be, OL, WR, DL, LB, etc etc.
 
maverick512000 said:
While I do agree that some make excuses for him to the point of stupidity I also think some blame him for things completely out of his control. For many on here there doesn't seem to be any middle ground or acknowledgement that he has both good points and bad points. Whether BoB can up his game (no pun intended) and win the playoff games I don't know but I do know that firing him and bringing in a new HC will not magically fix all our problems. In fact it will make new ones because then that guy will need 3-5 years to get his system and players in place. To many on here think that the year we replace BoB is the year we win a SB and I don't see that as realistic. I still say he earned another year to try because, Colts game aside, turning a 0-3 season into a 9 game winning streak, division championship and one game away from being 2nd seed in the playoffs is impressive. If next year is more of the same I'm sure I'll feel different.
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What are the good points?

I agree a new coach won't solve everything. I would just prefer a coach who is good at evaluating talent, building an offensive system, making adjustments, calling timeouts, etc
 
TheKDog said:
I don't think he makes decisions independent of input. But I think he makes the final decision on who to start and where.
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Yeah, he's the HC so of course the buck stops at his desk... but still
 
TheKDog said:
What are the good points?

I agree a new coach won't solve everything. I would just prefer a coach who is good at evaluating talent, building an offensive system, making adjustments, calling timeouts, etc
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All those things you say he's not good at an equal argument could be made that he is at worst average at it. See that's the problem with this thread, its not a discussion its a bunch of people stating there opinions as fact and any opposing opinion as wrong. There are a lot of things about BoB as a coach that I don't care for but if you can't see any good points to a coach that has the respect of the locker room and turns a 0-3 season around then I don't know what to tell you. You can say, as many have, that it was Watson winning despite BoB but then if he doesn't get any credit for the wins you can't put any blame for the loses on him either. At least be consistent about it.
 
dream_team said:
The fact that our opponent knew what the Texans were going to do, don't you see that as a coaching problem? I know our OL sucks and needs help in pass-pro, but there are other ways to help pass-pro than always be in max-protect.
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No..b/c something like that..the use of max protect, is usually not done b/c u have a “tendency” to do it, it’s done b/c you HAVE to do it.

And All the other things you guys are stating that can be done to help pass pro WERE actually being done.

The backs and TE’s DID chip before they went out a lot of times

The emphasis on the run game DID help to limit DW4’s dropbacks and thereby took the pressure off the o-line in pass pro situations.

The short & play action passing game and RPO WAS regularly used to slow the rush.

The pocket was rolled.

The problem with all these half measures ya’ll claim could’ve been used in wholesale fashion to make the offense more effective is that 85-95% of it requires a strong run game. Absent that, they’re not nearly as effective. and well, save for a few games throughout the season, the run game was anemic pretty much all year. Why? It comes right back to the trash o-line.
 
maverick512000 said:
All those things you say he's not good at an equal argument could be made that he is at worst average at it. See that's the problem with this thread, its not a discussion its a bunch of people stating there opinions as fact and any opposing opinion as wrong. There are a lot of things about BoB as a coach that I don't care for but if you can't see any good points to a coach that has the respect of the locker room and turns a 0-3 season around then I don't know what to tell you. You can say, as many have, that it was Watson winning despite BoB but then if he doesn't get any credit for the wins you can't put any blame for the loses on him either. At least be consistent about it.
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Thread should be closed after your post sir.
 
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