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Brian Gaine Thread

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Texansballer74 said:
I have a **** load of games ro indict him. Ive also mentioned two other dang games in which I see you completely ignored.
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Sorry, I don't read every single post. But yeah, I know you dislike O'Brien. And I'm guessing you're talking about the Patriots and Seahawks game. I complained about him when they lost those games as well (which you probably completely ignored...lol). I've been as critical about O'Brien as you have, I just do it in a different way. Although after the Seattle game I really felt like abandoning the team if he wasn't fired. I mentioned it in a game day thread and took a little heat for my comment. TBH, I would have been better than OK if both he and Smith had been fired after the 2017 season. But, it didn't happen so I'm rooting for the guy.
 
Double Barrel said:
Yep, this falls in line with just about everything we have heard with the way the front office works. It is easier to point the finger at a dictator-like structure, but that's not the Texans.

Here's some more Wade nuggets about JJ:

"With players, you give your opinion and then whoever's in charge of the Draft decides how good your opinion is," Phillips said at the time. "With [Saints defensive end] Rickey [Jackson], my Dad sent me up to watch him and Hugh Green at Pittsburgh, and we obviously ended up picking him.

"With JJ, half the group didn't want him and half the group did. Our side won, and it turned out great."

As Phillips admitted during the interview, "there was some dissent" toward drafting Watt and even the people backing his selection had no idea that he would end up being as good as he's been.

"A few of us stood up strongly for him at 11th overall — there was some dissent — but I don't think any of us thought at the time that he'd be the dominant player that he's been," Phillips recalled. "We thought he was gonna be good. What we saw is that he had a great feel for where the football was. He had more pass breakups than any of the defensive backs. He knocked down so many passes. He's a great athlete, and I think people kind of miss that. They worked him out at the combine as a linebacker, and he moved pretty well there, and he has tremendous acceleration.

"We liked him a lot, obviously, and after his first year I told everybody he was gonna be in the Hall of Fame."

Source
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Thanks for the article. Good find. So again, another example of the GM taking the coaches input and making a decision. Interesting that the room was 50/50 on the pick and Smith made the decision. I guess the narrative that it was a Wade only pick has been debunked.
 
Earl34 said:
Thanks for the article. Good find. So again, another example of the GM taking the coaches input and making a decision. Interesting that the room was 50/50 on the pick and Smith made the decision. I guess the narrative that it was a Wade only pick has been debunked.
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Bill OBrien has a very similar quote. He gives opinion to Rick and Rick makes the pick.

He added that Rick would never take a guy the coaches don't want

My guess is that there still has been dissent from the scouts and that may have affected moves, and OBrien wants to change that
 
business-commerce-board-boardroom-ascertained-blamegames-blame_games-jman202_low.jpg
 
Earl34 said:
Agree 100% and most objective people can understand that scenario and the working relationship. This is why McNair should have fired Smith and Kubiak or Smith and O'Brien. You cannot separate the wheat from the chaff.

I read a tweet from Stephanie Stradley where she hints that Smith wasn't strong enough to prevent the owner from making bad decisions (Reed or Osweiler?) and coaches felt he relied too much on them to make draft decisions.

It seems that the biggest flaw in this decision making process is accountability. Coaches can always say, "you're not giving us enough good options or we are picking the best of a bad lot". On the other hand, the GM can say, you wanted that guy. Based on the results, regardless of hits or misses, the GM and coach will eventually want more control because they can easily rationalize the other side had a greater impact on the misses.
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Problem is that because McNair is a part of the process, and "understands" the bigger decisions, it makes him more likely to keep those people too long. The parts are not being judged solely on bottom-line performance.
 
banned1976 said:
Sorry, I don't read every single post. But yeah, I know you dislike O'Brien. And I'm guessing you're talking about the Patriots and Seahawks game. I complained about him when they lost those games as well (which you probably completely ignored...lol). I've been as critical about O'Brien as you have, I just do it in a different way. Although after the Seattle game I really felt like abandoning the team if he wasn't fired. I mentioned it in a game day thread and took a little heat for my comment. TBH, I would have been better than OK if both he and Smith had been fired after the 2017 season. But, it didn't happen so I'm rooting for the guy.
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Lol no I didn't ignore your rant during and after those loses. And you're right I am not a fan of Bill O'Brien. I gave him the benefit of the doubt several times over his tenure here. He continues to make the same coaching mistakes every year.


I agree both should've been fired. But here we go again with the same soup warmed over. A quote my mother like to use. Haha

Im a Texans fan so I will pulling for him as well. Hopefully things turn around for him and this ball club.
 
The offense has much less talent than the defense. There are like 3-4 good offensive players currently on the roster.

It wasn't that way when O'Brien got here.

It's telling that O'Brien brought Mallet over and started him two separate years.

I think O'Brien is the issue when it comes to talent evaluation.
 
TheKDog said:
The offense has much less talent than the defense. There are like 3-4 good offensive players currently on the roster.

It wasn't that way when O'Brien got here.

It's telling that O'Brien brought Mallet over and started him two separate years.

I think O'Brien is the issue when it comes to talent evaluation.
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I think they have good talent on offense. With a very good QB they were leading the NFL in points. The offense looked very competent and explosive. They were hitting deep passes like no other. But as soon as the youngster went down, so did O'Brien's creativity and play calling.
 
infantrycak said:
In my experience, even in "boardroom" collective decisions, everyone on the inside knows who had the good calls and the bad ones.

Frustrates the hell out of people on the outside. STFW? The fact non-decision makers on the outside don't have the information to make the call doesn't mean nobody is held accountable.
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Doesn't mean they are either.

# The Godfather
 
TheKDog said:
The offense has much less talent than the defense. There are like 3-4 good offensive players currently on the roster.
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Which is the way it should be with an offensive coach IMO. They should make chicken salad out of chicken **** at least on their side of the ball. Defer the talent and decision making to someone else in the other.

Jimmy Johnson bought a hot rod for Norv Turner.

He did buy some fuzzy dice and a chrome gas cap with Deion and Haley.
 
infantrycak said:
Which is the way it should be with an offensive coach IMO. They should make chicken salad out of chicken **** at least on their side of the ball. Defer the talent and decision making to someone else in the other.

Jimmy Johnson bought a hot rod for Norv Turner.

He did buy some fuzzy dice and a chrome gas cap with Deion and Haley.
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Another example was the Ravens hiring Brian Billick who had a reputation as an offensive genius. He then proceeded to have one of the greatest defenses in NFL history while having one of the worst offenses and QBs to win a Super Bowl.
 
infantrycak said:
Which is the way it should be with an offensive coach IMO. They should make chicken salad out of chicken **** at least on their side of the ball. Defer the talent and decision making to someone else in the other.

Jimmy Johnson bought a hot rod for Norv Turner.

He did buy some fuzzy dice and a chrome gas cap with Deion and Haley.
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With Watson BOB did this.
 
infantrycak said:
In my experience, even in "boardroom" collective decisions, everyone on the inside knows who had the good calls and the bad ones.

Frustrates the hell out of people on the outside. STFW? The fact non-decision makers on the outside don't have the information to make the call doesn't mean nobody is held accountable.
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I have absolutely no doubt that Bob McNair knows exactly who was behind decisions and who pushed for which players. It would be foolish of him to publicly broadcast that information.

He comes across as a nice, old guy, but the truth is that any given self-made billionaire is going to have an attention to detail and even a ruthless side in business that most will never see.

steelbtexan said:
Doesn't mean they are either.

# The Godfather
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It took longer than many of us would have liked, but my take is that Rick Smith's change of title was that accountability. I doubt he has much influence or control over personnel while O'Brien and Gaine are running things. He's most likely being groomed as the right hand man for Little Enis, which is a big picture position of running a multi-billion dollar company and not just football operations.
 
TheKDog said:
The offense has much less talent than the defense. There are like 3-4 good offensive players currently on the roster.

It wasn't that way when O'Brien got here.

It's telling that O'Brien brought Mallet over and started him two separate years.

I think O'Brien is the issue when it comes to talent evaluation.
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CloakNNNdagger said:
Came across this podcast John Granato and Lance Zerlein discussing the Texans, player transaction and philosophies in the past, Bill O'Brien vs. Rick Smith............and how coaches contracts work (may be eye-opening to many) and other subjects.

Click on the 1/18/18 THE BENCH HOUR 1 Podcast beginning at 26min 15 sec.
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Those two guy are back together ? The last thing I heard about Zerlein was that he had quit 790 to concentrate on his mock draft work.
 
infantrycak said:
I love Doc, but he's not (nor you) a mind reader. OL had zilch to do with his injury.

And even the best OL gives up sacks, hits and pressures.
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You dont have to be a mind reader, the more hits a QB takes the greater chance of injury and Watson took alot more hits behind this OL than most QB's did. It's really just simple math.

The fact that I wanted Savage to start the season to help keep Watson healthy and said so at the time due to a bad OL, should tell you that while I'm not a mind reader, a blind man could've predicted what was going to happen. It was just the odds of a QB with DW4's style of play and lack of protection, what did you think was going to happen.

Sad thing is that unless Gaine fixes the OL it's going to happen again. (It may happen anyways but fixing the OL decreases the odds.)
 
infantrycak said:
I love Doc, but he's not (nor you) a mind reader. OL had zilch to do with his injury.

And even the best OL gives up sacks, hits and pressures.
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The ol had nothing to do with his injury - true, but we'd be retarded to ignore the need for ol help. It's even more important now with a young qb coming off a leg injury.

I don't care any longer who's responsible for our dearth of ol talent. I just want it fixed. I saw a spark in Watson we haven't had. I want it to become an all out bonfire. Give him the best chance to succeed by giving him a legit ol.

How the ***** this team can be ignorant of that philosophy after what we did to carr is beyond me.
 
Someone one the radio ( I think it was Payne ) was saying the Texans like try hard guys who may not have as many physical tools . They laughed and said this is why special teams stink . To me this is Gaines job , to get more athletic .
 
Miller has the skill set for it. Does he have the vision for it?
 
powda said:
Miller has the skill set for it. Does he have the vision for it?
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Hard to tell. You've got to have a, for lack of a better description, squirrel instinct..."large men in front, holy crap, oh look daylight."

But that starts with the coaching saying zb left instead of hit A gap left.
 
Physically, I think Miller has the tools to work in a zbs. I don't think he has the vision for it. That was Arian fosters greatest tool - his vision.

Watson in a true zbs bootleg scheme with a legit rb could be sick. I don't think Miller is the guy.
 
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter

Carolina, which changed GMs before training camp last summer, will begin GM interviews this week, per source. Two of the candidates scheduled to be interviewed are interim GM Marty Hurney and Texans VP Player of Personnel Jimmy Raye III, per source.
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powda said:
Physically, I think Miller has the tools to work in a zbs. I don't think he has the vision for it. That was Arian fosters greatest tool - his vision.

Watson in a true zbs bootleg scheme with a legit rb could be sick. I don't think Miller is the guy.
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Not saying Miller does. Can say he is not a power scheme RB.

Has to be one if the hardest scouting judgments. Emmitt Smith didn't look the power RB part and yet was the quentessential power RB. I think it's a focus within vision. ZB runners naturally look for air. Power runners look for leverage. Emmitt would shift 6" to make a shoulder tackle into a missed arm tackle. Miller doesn't have that.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Came across this podcast John Granato and Lance Zerlein discussing the Texans, player transaction and philosophies in the past, Bill O'Brien vs. Rick Smith............and how coaches contracts work (may be eye-opening to many) and other subjects.

Click on the 1/18/18 THE BENCH HOUR 1 Podcast beginning at 26min 15 sec.
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I detected a fear from one guy (I don't know which voice was Zierlien and which was Granato) that Gaine will be a yes man to O'Brien like the Rockets' front office did when Rudy T was coach - after the championship years. That didn't end well.

The coaches contract stuff wasn't news. I mean, who actually thinks the HC's contract is connected to the salary cap anyway?
 
ObsiWan said:
I detected a fear from one guy (I don't know which voice was Zierlien and which was Granato) that Gaine will be a yes man to O'Brien like the Rockets' front office did when Rudy T was coach - after the championship years. That didn't end well.

The coaches contract stuff wasn't news. I mean, who actually thinks the HC's contract is connected to the salary cap anyway?
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That was never the point. The point was that an early release of a HC (and and subsequently subordinate coaches) under a long term contract extension would be costly........not to be considered chump change to an owner.
 
infantrycak said:
Not saying Miller does. Can say he is not a power scheme RB.

Has to be one if the hardest scouting judgments. Emmitt Smith didn't look the power RB part and yet was the quentessential power RB. I think it's a focus within vision. ZB runners naturally look for air. Power runners look for leverage. Emmitt would shift 6" to make a shoulder tackle into a missed arm tackle. Miller doesn't have that.
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Agreed. You mention a "squirrel instinct." Miller misses a lot of gaps and often cuts into traffic. It looks like he runs a gap because that's what the play calls for - even if there is no daylight.

Perhaps I'm being overly critical. Maybe with a great line he could dominate. I just don't see it. We don't have a great line.

I think Watson's ability might afford him the chance to be good - but it will be because of Watson. Not because of Miller.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
That was never the point. The point was that an early release of a HC (and and subsequently subordinate coaches) under a long term contract extension would be costly........not to be considered chump change to an owner.
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Okay.
But that isn't news is it?
Chip Kelly is getting checks from Philly and the Niners this year (last year of his 5-yr Philly deal and somewhere in the middle of his Niner deal).
LINK
Money left on a coach's contract won't save him from getting canned.
Well... it shouldn't

Edit: OTOH, that might explain why Marvin Lewis is still around
:)
 
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My thoughts are management is not expecting anyone player (perhaps Watson is exception) to dominate just be better than what we had 2017. Improve in this off season and then in 2019 with first round, two seconds and a third look for those who can dominate. We should become significantly younger and still have seasoned vets.
 
steelbtexan said:
You dont have to be a mind reader, the more hits a QB takes the greater chance of injury and Watson took alot more hits behind this OL than most QB's did. It's really just simple math.

The fact that I wanted Savage to start the season to help keep Watson healthy and said so at the time due to a bad OL, should tell you that while I'm not a mind reader, a blind man could've predicted what was going to happen. It was just the odds of a QB with DW4's style of play and lack of protection, what did you think was going to happen.

Sad thing is that unless Gaine fixes the OL it's going to happen again. (It may happen anyways but fixing the OL decreases the odds.)
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Wait a minute. Out of curiosity, I have to ask this question. It seems like you and Rick Smith are in agreement. You both didn't want Watson to start. Yet, I thought you said Smith was sabotaging O'Brien by not recommending he start Watson. Did I miss something? Did you agree or disagree with Smith that Watson should not start the season?
:highfive:
 
Earl34 said:
Wait a minute. Out of curiosity, I have to ask this question. It seems like you and Rick Smith are in agreement. You both didn't want Watson to start. Yet, I thought you said Smith was sabotaging O'Brien by not recommending he start Watson. Did I miss something? Did you agree or disagree with Smith that Watson should not start the season?
:highfive:
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I think Smith didn't want Watson to start. (I didn't either.)

BOB wanted to start Watson and Smith must have told him no, since Smith is the one that got put on LOA.
 
powda said:
Physically, I think Miller has the tools to work in a zbs. I don't think he has the vision for it. That was Arian fosters greatest tool - his vision.

Watson in a true zbs bootleg scheme with a legit rb could be sick. I don't think Miller is the guy.
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To be fair, Foster was a great RB, one of the best I've seen. As far as size, strength, vision and athleticism I'd put him (while in his prime) up against the best today. Asking Miller to be Foster is like asking Miller to be Le'Veon Bell and Todd Gurley.

Miller will probably not be this


But used properly he could be this:
 
powda said:
Agreed. You mention a "squirrel instinct." Miller misses a lot of gaps and often cuts into traffic. It looks like he runs a gap because that's what the play calls for - even if there is no daylight.

Perhaps I'm being overly critical. Maybe with a great line he could dominate. I just don't see it. We don't have a great line.

I think Watson's ability might afford him the chance to be good - but it will be because of Watson. Not because of Miller.
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Great observation! Miller is a pile hitter. I've never bore witness to a RB who hits a pile of humans with the authority Miller does, no deviation right or left, just smack into the back of the crowd. I think O'Brien likes this as well b/c he continues to call this play and gets the same results way more often than not at the most critical times in a game.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Great observation! Miller is a pile hitter. I've never bore witness to a RB who hits a pile of humans with the authority Miller does, no deviation right or left, just smack into the back of the crowd. I think O'Brien likes this as well b/c he continues to call this play and gets the same results way more often than not at the most critical times in a game.
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The sarcasm is thick in this one. But, absolutely true.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Great observation! Miller is a pile hitter. I've never bore witness to a RB who hits a pile of humans with the authority Miller does, no deviation right or left, just smack into the back of the crowd. I think O'Brien likes this as well b/c he continues to call this play and gets the same results way more often than not at the most critical times in a game.
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Miller runs where he wants the hole to be . If it's not there the penalty is a head gear to the back .
 
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adama51 said:
How do you think the ZBS would fit Deshaun better? I'm guessing for the rollout element?
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That and the fact that every play, run or pass, looks the same. Defenses have to guess in a split second if it's a run or a pass. Kubiak was able to make a noodle armed plodder named Matt Schaub look like a competent NFL QB using that scheme. Imagine it with DW4 at the helm.
 
DocBar said:
That and the fact that every play, run or pass, looks the same. Defenses have to guess in a split second if it's a run or a pass. Kubiak was able to make a noodle armed plodder named Matt Schaub look like a competent NFL QB using that scheme. Imagine it with DW4 at the helm.
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Watson could do well in any scheme..........if he had a decent OL, RB, and 2 reliable receivers.....................
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Watson could do well in any scheme..........if he had a decent OL, RB, and 2 reliable receivers.....................
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Agreed. I loved the misdirection plays O'Brien installed for Watson. Really a thing of beauty. I hate to use this phrase...but I'm going to anyway; Watson looked like a smooth criminal back there. He has such great poise, even when being spun around he connected with Lamar Miller in the end zone and made it look effortlessly. If he comes back looking like he did before his injury, I agree with many NFL columnist that claim he could be the new face of the NFL.

TBH, I don't have a problem with the Texans receiving corp.

I'm also not as down on the RB's as some are. It's the o-line that I have huge problems with...and every Texans QB not named Deshaun Watson.
 
banned1976 said:
Agreed. I loved the misdirection plays O'Brien installed for Watson. Really a thing of beauty. I hate to use this phrase...but I'm going to anyway; Watson looked like a smooth criminal back there. He has such great poise, even when being spun around he connected with Lamar Miller in the end zone and made it look effortlessly. If he comes back looking like he did before his injury, I agree with many NFL columnist that claim he could be the new face of the NFL.

TBH, I don't have a problem with the Texans receiving corp.

I'm also not as down on the RB's as some are. It's the o-line that I have huge problems with...and every Texans QB not named Deshaun Watson.
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A good OL would do wonders for every aspect of the O. I agree with the WR. I like them, too. Watson greatly impressed me with his poise and playmaking ability. He's an NFL prototypical Russell Wilson.
 
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