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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

infantrycak said:
Closest I can come up with is Chandler Jones from NE to Arizona for a 2nd and Jonathon Cooper. And that's not very close.
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Cooper was released and Belichick turned the 2nd into a 3rd and 4th. He got a starting guard and a backup receiver (and a lot of cap room). Not as good as a top pass rusher, but they're going to the Super Bowl again. Having Tom Brady can erase some questionable decisions.
 
IDEXAN said:
Maybe I'm too impressionable but I admit to not knowing squat about players and their medical issues which is why I pay such close attention to what C&D says and he's not been very encouraging about JDs NFL future
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I am not a doctor, fortune teller, capologist, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. But, it seems Clowney has already defied the predictions thus far. The future? The Patriot Way says get what you can while you can. If you have a great QB, you can seemingly get away with that.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
In all seriousness, the Browns would be hard pressed to find a player (DE/OLB) as good as Clowney is currently within their first 5 picks. The Browns have picks to work with and definitely have the cap space in their favor. The key, how would they view the pairing of Garrett and Clowney?
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If I were running the Browns (couldn't do much worse than the previous guys), I would look for a guy to provide interior pressure, rather than another edge rusher that costs a lot of $$$ and picks. The Browns took NT Danny Shelton a few years ago with a high pick, and didn't get value. I would only spend high picks on d-linemen that can pressure the passer. There may be a couple in this draft that fit the description.
 
Lucky said:
I am not a doctor, fortune teller, capologist, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. But, it seems Clowney has already defied the predictions thus far. The future? The Patriot Way says get what you can while you can. If you have a great QB, you can seemingly get away with that.
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I agree with you about striking when the iron is hot so maybe with Clowney & a third round pick & one of our two 2019 second-rounders we could score a
fairly high first rounder.
 
IDEXAN said:
I agree with you about striking when the iron is hot so maybe with Clowney & a third round pick & one of our two 2019 second-rounders we could score a
fairly high first rounder.
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High 1st round picks belong generally to rebuilding teams. They're gold. Clowney would be more desirable to a team looking for that one piece to push them over the top. A late 1st is likely the very best the Texans could dream of getting.
 
IDEXAN said:
I agree with you about striking when the iron is hot so maybe with Clowney & a third round pick & one of our two 2019 second-rounders we could score a
fairly high first rounder.
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Why? Lots of holes is inconsistent with making a new one and expending two more potential players to get one.
 
infantrycak said:
Why? Lots of holes is inconsistent with making a new one and expending two more potential players to get one.
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I know, but what's more important at this time: retaining a top tier front 7 defensive player or drafting a potential franchise L.Tackle to develop to protect the organizations MVP who's already spent his rookie season on IR ? It is a tough call, but prioritizing & managing these types of team needs is why they are paying our new GM the big $$s.
 
IDEXAN said:
Maybe I'm too impressionable but I admit to not knowing squat about players and their medical issues which is why I pay such close attention to what C&D says and he's not been very encouraging about JDs NFL future over the longer-term ever since the microfracture surgery and we are now entering that longer-term of his career.
And even with no concerns of JDs long-term viability due to potential injury or otherwise I don't think he's worthy of being the next highest paid non-QB in the league.
He's very good, but not the best of the best IMO.
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I like reading what CnD has to say as well, just keep in mind he tends to be quite pessimistic on his predictions.

These guys play football. Injuries (for all players) will always be a huge risk. Look at JJ. Before he was extended, he was extremely durable.

With Clowney, we have to take that risk, but let’s try to be smart about it and mitigate the losses if he has another major injury.
 
IDEXAN said:
I know, but what's more important at this time: retaining a top tier front 7 defensive player or drafting a potential franchise L.Tackle to develop to protect the organizations MVP who's already spent his rookie season on IR ? It is a tough call, but prioritizing & managing these types of team needs is why they are paying our new GM the big $$s.
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It's not just A player though, it's 3.
 
IDEXAN said:
I know, but what's more important at this time: retaining a top tier front 7 defensive player or drafting a potential franchise L.Tackle to develop to protect the organizations MVP who's already spent his rookie season on IR ? It is a tough call, but prioritizing & managing these types of team needs is why they are paying our new GM the big $$s.
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Are you sure there is actually "a potential franchise L tackle" in the upcoming draft?

Because that's the bet you're making.

I'd rather our shiny, new GM keep the defense RAC has assembled and find the Texans a solid LT in free agency.
 
ObsiWan said:
Are you sure there is actually "a potential franchise L tackle" in the upcoming draft?

Because that's the bet you're making.
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As we all know it's basically a roll of the dice for every player drafted, there are no sure things- pays your money and takes your chances
ObsiWan said:
I'd rather our shiny, new GM keep the defense RAC has assembled and find the Texans a solid
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ObsiWan said:
LT in free agency.
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"Solid" LT in the 2108 FA will be hard to find.
I certainly dunno which way Gaine will go, just suggesting this as one potential path he might consider.
 
amazing80 said:
Trading arguably our best defensive player is ridiculous. I’d rather rework watts deal and keep them all. Focus on our trash secondary and o line.
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Its trying to go the Belichick route and get what you can, while you can.

What they have that we don't is top tier coaching and better draft evaluation to turn a majority of those picks into contributing players. That's a reason I believe we shouldn't go that route until we can prove we can reload and coach up the players we reload with.
 
infantrycak said:
There is one well positioned for acquisition. Nate Solder is about to turn 30. The Pats will likely not offer him a contract over 3 maybe 4 years. He has a SB ring (maybe 2). He's looking at giant payday v. chance for more jewelry.
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OK I knew Solder was getting close to his contract year, so yea you are probably right because Belichick won't match the kind of deal he could secure in FA.
I dunno I guess Solder is atleast average, but that's far better than what we have now.
Wow would he ever be expensive especially when you consider big bad Jon Elway may want him and could maybe induce the Denver native into agreeing to a hometown discount.
 
amazing80 said:
Trading arguably our best defensive player is ridiculous. I’d rather rework watts deal and keep them all. Focus on our trash secondary and o line.
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I dunno about ridiculous, but I'm leaning towards them not doing a trade involving JD myself, but all options (not including DW), should be considered IMO.
 
ObsiWan said:
Are you sure there is actually "a potential franchise L tackle" in the upcoming draft?

Because that's the bet you're making.

I'd rather our shiny, new GM keep the defense RAC has assembled and find the Texans a solid LT in free agency.
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There are no solid LT's in FA. That ship sailed last offseason.

I do think maybe Hubbard (Steelers) can play LT. I know he's a really good RT. I would sign Hubbard and hope he can play LT and draft a guy like Parker to play LT. You would have to give Parker alot of help but he's got the talent to play early with good coaching.

If Hubbard can play LT, then Parker looked really good yesterday at RT.

BTW, Hubbard played very well at OG last yr too.
 
infantrycak said:
The Broncos have a 1st round LT coming off his rookie season.
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Bolles can play RT.

In fact it may be his best position.

I expect Solder to return to the Pats. Either by a new contract or tagged.

Clowney should be tagged to mitigate risks. This means Clowney will be signed to a 5 yr huge contract. It's what McNair wants.
 
steelbtexan said:
Bolles can play RT.

In fact it may be his best position.

I expect Solder to return to the Pats. Either by a new contract or tagged.

Clowney should be tagged to mitigate risks. This means Clowney will be signed to a 5 yr huge contract. It's what McNair wants.
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Are you just arguing whatever for the Texans not to get Solder?

Malcolm Butler is ahead of Solder in the franchise tag line, which the Pats have not been prone to use lately.

And you don't tag people until negotiations have broken down and time runs out. To early to say GAINE will tag Clowney or give him a "too long" contract.
 
infantrycak said:
There is one well positioned for acquisition. Nate Solder is about to turn 30. The Pats will likely not offer him a contract over 3 maybe 4 years. He has a SB ring (maybe 2). He's looking at giant payday v. chance for more jewelry.
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Sounds good to me. They are not finding a plug-and-play LT in this year's draft when they do not get a pick until Saturday.

I like Gaine's attitude about prioritizing the o-line, though. A healthy Watson and solid D can compete with any team, but the key is minimizing the hits he takes in the pocket. He seems smart enough not to lower his shoulder RGIII-style for an extra yard when he's running/scrambling.
 
infantrycak said:
Are you just arguing whatever for the Texans not to get Solder?

Malcolm Butler is ahead of Solder in the franchise tag line, which the Pats have not been prone to use lately.

And you don't tag people until negotiations have broken down and time runs out. To early to say GAINE will tag Clowney or give him a "too long" contract.
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Nope, Solder is 1st in line. Gotta keep Brady healthy. There was talk of trading Butler to the Saints last off season. I hope the Texans go after Butler since he should be somewhat familiar with RAC's defensive schemes.

Negotiations? No way I would sign Clowney with his 3 knee operations to a long term big $$$$ contract. That would be stupid and will comeback to bite the McNair's in the butt. When the knee gives out and it will sometime during the long term contract the fans will be saying how unlucky the Texans were with the injury bug again, when in truth it would be just another case of poor planning.

Very Texan like, See: Cushing, Fiedo etc...
 
steelbtexan said:
Nope, Solder is 1st in line.
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Boston media disagrees.

I hope the Texans go after Butler since he should be somewhat familiar with RAC's defensive schemes.
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Butler entered the league a decade after RAC left NE. But if he makes it to FA then sure.

Negotiations? No way I would sign Clowney with his 3 knee operations to a long term big $$$$ contract.
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Negotiation is not a synonym for long term.
 
infantrycak said:
The Broncos have a 1st round LT coming off his rookie season.
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I know about Garrret Bolles and we followed him during the Draft pretty closely here, but his rookie year was a disappointment to many in Denver.
My thought is that Elway if possible may want to trust the all-important LT position to a tried and true NFL LT before handing the job over on a permanent basis to Bolles.
 
infantrycak said:
There is one well positioned for acquisition. Nate Solder is about to turn 30. The Pats will likely not offer him a contract over 3 maybe 4 years. He has a SB ring (maybe 2). He's looking at giant payday v. chance for more jewelry.
Click to expand...

Nate Solder is the best FA LT on the market. He's considered to be the #2 LT according to Spotrac and therefore, will require a higher than probably desired financial commitment to secure his services. Could the Texans afford an offer of 5 years at 65M (13M Avg) with 39M guaranteed? Could the Texans get the best available FA LT to take a lesser deal? Say, 4 years at 56M (14M Avg) with 28M guaranteed? Can he really secure the left side of the OL for the next 4 to 5 years while Davenport continues his work at OT, by working as a rotational Swing Tackle?

If the Texans could get Solder signed, maybe that allows them to go after OG/OC (my choices would be Ragnow- Arkansas or Clapp- LSU), TE (my choices; Gesicki- Penn St, Goedert- South Dakota St or Breneman- Massachusetts) and RB (Adams- Notre Dame) in RD3. I would target LT, Bentley Spain- North Carolina with the RD6-4 pick. He's being projected in this slot but his stock could go up if he has a strong Combine. I'd be fine with using a RD4 on him if his stock is on the rise. If anything, he comes to camp and is given the opportunity to compete with Davenport for RT. Both Goedert and Ragnow are probably a reach to still be on the board come RD3 but the rest of these could be there for the taking.

Maybe Solder is the quickest solution to the LT dilemma for the immediate future and if takes a little more money than expected to remove this position from an immediate fill area in the draft, I could live with this decision.
 
IDEXAN said:
I know about Garrret Bolles and we followed him during the Draft pretty closely here, but his rookie year was a disappointment to many in Denver.
My thought is that Elway if possible may want to trust the all-important LT position to a tried and true NFL LT before handing the job over on a permanent basis to Bolles.
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The Paxton Lynch experiment is over and With Smith & Cousins in play, they'll be mostly focused on getting a qb in FA.

NE isn't paying both those guys so Solder,Butler ......butler, solder I don't really care as long as we can get 1 of them to fill one of the holes we have.
 
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The Patriots drafted Antonio Garcia last year in anticipation of Solder leaving. I think he's gone, but Solder will have a lot of suitors. Still can't get over the Duane Brown thing, who is superior to Solder.
 
infantrycak said:
Boston media disagrees.



Butler entered the league a decade after RAC left NE. But if he makes it to FA thrn sure.



Negotiation is not a synonym for long term.
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Does RAC not run a version of BB's defense?

More than 2 years and I'm moving on from Clooney. 3 years tops.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Nate Solder is the best FA LT on the market. He's considered to be the #2 LT according to Spotrac and therefore, will require a higher than probably desired financial commitment to secure his services. Could the Texans afford an offer of 5 years at 65M (13M Avg) with 39M guaranteed? Could the Texans get the best available FA LT to take a lesser deal? Say, 4 years at 56M (14M Avg) with 28M guaranteed? Can he really secure the left side of the OL for the next 4 to 5 years while Davenport continues his work at OT, by working as a rotational Swing Tackle?

If the Texans could get Solder signed, maybe that allows them to go after OG/OC (my choices would be Ragnow- Arkansas or Clapp- LSU), TE (my choices; Gesicki- Penn St, Goedert- South Dakota St or Breneman- Massachusetts) and RB (Adams- Notre Dame) in RD3. I would target LT, Bentley Spain- North Carolina with the RD6-4 pick. He's being projected in this slot but his stock could go up if he has a strong Combine. I'd be fine with using a RD4 on him if his stock is on the rise. If anything, he comes to camp and is given the opportunity to compete with Davenport for RT. Both Goedert and Ragnow are probably a reach to still be on the board come RD3 but the rest of these could be there for the taking.

Maybe Solder is the quickest solution to the LT dilemma for the immediate future and if takes a little more money than expected to remove this position from an immediate fill area in the draft, I could live with this decision.
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Give me Cordy Glenn at 3 yrs 23 mil.

Buffalo is trying to trade him and Glenn should be healthy for OTA's.
 
As far as speculation...

May we please imagine a world with 'healthy' Watt, Clown and the Merciless/us?

Pay em and see what happens.

Then start another thread.




That said... anyone wanna bet The Texans are the injury (fuyk you).. because I'm not.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Nate Solder is the best FA LT on the market. He's considered to be the #2 LT according to Spotrac and therefore, will require a higher than probably desired financial commitment to secure his services. Could the Texans afford an offer of 5 years at 65M (13M Avg) with 39M guaranteed? Could the Texans get the best available FA LT to take a lesser deal? Say, 4 years at 56M (14M Avg) with 28M guaranteed? Can he really secure the left side of the OL for the next 4 to 5 years while Davenport continues his work at OT, by working as a rotational Swing Tackle?

If the Texans could get Solder signed, maybe that allows them to go after OG/OC (my choices would be Ragnow- Arkansas or Clapp- LSU), TE (my choices; Gesicki- Penn St, Goedert- South Dakota St or Breneman- Massachusetts) and RB (Adams- Notre Dame) in RD3. I would target LT, Bentley Spain- North Carolina with the RD6-4 pick. He's being projected in this slot but his stock could go up if he has a strong Combine. I'd be fine with using a RD4 on him if his stock is on the rise. If anything, he comes to camp and is given the opportunity to compete with Davenport for RT. Both Goedert and Ragnow are probably a reach to still be on the board come RD3 but the rest of these could be there for the taking.

Maybe Solder is the quickest solution to the LT dilemma for the immediate future and if takes a little more money than expected to remove this position from an immediate fill area in the draft, I could live with this decision.
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Great post. I appreciate it when someone actually names players they like rather than say "take a OG in the 4th" as if the round a player is picked in is the deciding factor, instead of the talent of a particular player.
 
DocBar said:
Great post. I appreciate it when someone actually names players they like rather than say "take a OG in the 4th" as if the round a player is picked in is the deciding factor, instead of the talent of a particular player.
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I'm really hopeful that most of these guys are on the board when the Texans pick....but, we still have the Senior Bowl, Combine and Private Workouts before the final draft grades are handed out. Some of these guys are going to elevate their draft status.

For example, Bentley Spain (LT- North Carolina) is rated a RD6 to UDFA prospect. He was a very high recruit coming out of HS and earned the starting LT job with NC in his 2nd season and held onto the job until his college days were over. The guy has been a solid performer for 3 seasons at LT. I would watch him since an excellent performance in either the Combine or Pro Day could push his status to a justified RD3 or RD4 selection but if he's still on the board after those rounds (RD3 or RD4) then I only hope he slips through RD5 and he's there for the taking in RD6. There has to be more to this guy than his current grade. He's started 3 seasons at LT for the Tar Heels and only missed 4 games due to an injury in 2015...hell, if anything he can remain healthy. He's 6-6 @ 310 lbs played on ST's his first season and majored in Exercise and Sports Science.
 
DocBar said:
Great post. I appreciate it when someone actually names players they like rather than say "take a OG in the 4th" as if the round a player is picked in is the deciding factor, instead of the talent of a particular player.
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After the Sr. Bowl I'm going to give my offseason plan. I'ts going to include a couple of FA/OL trade, a local vet TE, a couple of vet ST's guys.
 
steelbtexan said:
Give me Cordy Glenn at 3 yrs 23 mil.

Buffalo is trying to trade him and Glenn should be healthy for OTA's.
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"Healthy for OTA's" which suggests he was injured at the end of 2017 ? So Glenn is comparable to Soldier ability and experience wise ? Has been for multiple years Buffalos LT ?
Good to know SteelB because maybe it's potentially another option to solve our problem @ LT.
Brian Gaine knows some folks in the FO in Buffalo so if he swings a deal for this guy we will know where we heard it first.
 
steelbtexan said:
Give me Cordy Glenn at 3 yrs 23 mil.
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I did some deep research on Glenn.........I don't know that I like what I found. I'll let others decide on the potential cost vs value vs. potential injury risk.

2012 rookie year missed several games with left ankle injuries

2014 limited in OTAs and missed minicamp due to a nondisclosed medical condition (research resulted suspicion of possibly blood clots)............did not get cleared for team drill practice until mid Aug

2016 (June) sat out all of minicamp for "minor foot injury."

2016 (week 1) got rolled up on during a QB sneak.............severe left high ankle sprain.............after already missing 6 games for ongoing high ankle problems..............end of 2016, sustained a severe back problem (no doubt compensatory) which led to him missing week 17

2017 (May) was still rehabbing his high ankle sprain...................a setback found him in a boot in June.................and he ended up still rehabbing his ankle through the beginning of Aug

2017 (Aug) he began developing left foot soreness which made him miss all of TC...........he was seen by famed foot and ankle specialist Dr. Robert Anderson for evaluation for possible surgery............instead Dr. Anderson said that he thought he could avoid surgery and performed "injections" to his left foot
2017missed 7 of the 1st 13 games, then IR'ed missing 4 more games ( including the wildcard playoff game)
2017 (end of Dec) foot surgery by Dr. Andkerson............he and the team avoided identifying the nature of the surgery

With his extensive history of ankle and foot injuries, and with "injections" to the foot being performed in hopes of avoiding surgery and with the team stating that they expect him back for OTAs............., my first thought is that the Dec surgery may have been to treat a chronic plantar fasciitis.
 
steelbtexan said:
Give me Cordy Glenn at 3 yrs 23 mil.

Buffalo is trying to trade him and Glenn should be healthy for OTA's.
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**********
Dareus was one of several disastrous contracts handed out by former general manager Doug Whaley. Another was the deal handed to left tackle Cordy Glenn, who missed time with foot and ankle injuries in 2017 and might have lost his job to second-round pick Dion Dawkins in the process. Glenn's $14.5 million cap hit is the third largest due to any tackle in 2018, and the Bills might very well look to open up a spot for Dawkins by putting Glenn on the market. The 28-year-old has three years and $30 million left on his contract, and it wouldn't be crazy for a team with cap space and a need for a left tackle (Houston?) to throw a fifth-round pick Buffalo's way. A trade would open up $3.3 million on Buffalo's cap this year.
******
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22197990/2018-nfl-offseason-stability-guide-2017-playoff-teams
******
Here's somebody else, Bill Barnwell with ESPN, who has picked up on SteelBs idea. I dunno but as C&D pointed out in an earlier entry in this thread, Glenns career has been riddled with injuries in recent years.
 
IDEXAN said:
**********
Dareus was one of several disastrous contracts handed out by former general manager Doug Whaley. Another was the deal handed to left tackle Cordy Glenn, who missed time with foot and ankle injuries in 2017 and might have lost his job to second-round pick Dion Dawkins in the process. Glenn's $14.5 million cap hit is the third largest due to any tackle in 2018, and the Bills might very well look to open up a spot for Dawkins by putting Glenn on the market. The 28-year-old has three years and $30 million left on his contract, and it wouldn't be crazy for a team with cap space and a need for a left tackle (Houston?) to throw a fifth-round pick Buffalo's way. A trade would open up $3.3 million on Buffalo's cap this year.
******
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22197990/2018-nfl-offseason-stability-guide-2017-playoff-teams
******
Here's somebody else, Bill Barnwell with ESPN, who has picked up on SteelBs idea. I dunno but as C&D pointed out in an earlier entry in this thread, Glenns career has been riddled with injuries in recent years.
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I really like Dawkins and he was part of a trade I had suggested in another thread on Clowney. Glenn off board for me due to injury history
 
IDEXAN said:
"Healthy for OTA's" which suggests he was injured at the end of 2017 ? So Glenn is comparable to Soldier ability and experience wise ? Has been for multiple years Buffalos LT ?
Good to know SteelB because maybe it's potentially another option to solve our problem @ LT.
Brian Gaine knows some folks in the FO in Buffalo so if he swings a deal for this guy we will know where we heard it first.
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Yep,

He's really talented, but after reading CnD's opinion of Glenn's chances of getting hurt I would pass.
 
steelbtexan said:
Yep,

He's really talented, but after reading CnD's opinion of Glenn's chances of getting hurt I would pass.
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I still think paying Nate Solder elite money to come here is no bad idea. I'd think a 5th rounder for Glenn might be a reasonable backup if you plan on Davenport being closer to a passable backup by next season.

Free' s up their higher picks to target interior OL/RT which are traditionally easier to find as day 1 starters in the middle rounds.

I do wonder what Newton's situation is going into this off-season. I think (?) He's out of contract but I don't understand why they kept him around if they didn't think he was coming back. Maybe there is some cap reason or injury settlement reason for it but i kind of expect RT to be his in TC with maybe some competition.

If that leaves them needing a starting guard plus quality depth in the draft then I'm all for it.
 
welsh texan said:
I still think paying Nate Solder elite money to come here is no bad idea. I'd think a 5th rounder for Glenn might be a reasonable backup if you plan on Davenport being closer to a passable backup by next season.

Free' s up their higher picks to target interior OL/RT which are traditionally easier to find as day 1 starters in the middle rounds.

I do wonder what Newton's situation is going into this off-season. I think (?) He's out of contract but I don't understand why they kept him around if they didn't think he was coming back. Maybe there is some cap reason or injury settlement reason for it but i kind of expect RT to be his in TC with maybe some competition.

If that leaves them needing a starting guard plus quality depth in the draft then I'm all for it.
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Solder is probably staying New England. By franchise tag if need be.

Newton is done.

You should check out my offseason plan.
 
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