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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

Texans
As Texans look to future, can they afford to pay both J.J. Watt and Jadeveon Clowney?
By Aaron Wilson, Houston Chronicle

January 29, 2018 Updated: January 29, 2018 6:53pm
The emergence of Texans Pro Bowl outside linebacker Jadeveon Clowney as one of the most disruptive pass rushers and run-stoppers in the NFL has him on the verge of achieving life-changing wealth.

The former top overall draft pick from South Carolina is under contract for next season under a $13.846 million fifth-year club option, but he's poised to land a blockbuster contract that could make him the highest paid non-quarterback in the league.

The Texans already have signaled through owner Bob McNair and general manager Brian Gaine that they want to reward Clowney and secure him for the future. No formal negotiations have been launched, but it's one of the primary items on the Texans' offseason agenda.

Paying Clowney more than the six-year, $114.1 million deal of Denver Broncos outside linebacker Von Miller will be an extremely expensive undertaking. Miller got $70 million guaranteed and his contract pays him an average of $19.016 million per year.

Clowney is worth it, though, and the salary cap keeps rising. It's projected to rise as high as $180 million this offseason. And the Texans could have as much as $60 million in salary-cap space heading into free agency.

Can the Texans afford to have two $100 million defenders in their front seven? Conceivably, yes, considering that star quarterback Deshaun Watson is under a relatively inexpensive rookie contract.

Still, the shelf life of Texans star defensive end J.J. Watt has to be considered in terms of the big picture. A three-time NFL Defensive Player of the Year, Watt, 28, has been limited to just eight games, 23 tackles and 1 1/2 sacks over the past two seasons due to a pair of back surgeries to repair a herniated disk two seasons ago and a gruesome broken leg he suffered last season.

Watt is due a nonguaranteed $11 million base salary this year and carries a $15 millions salary-figure. That's all manageable for now. He has three years after the 2018 season under his current deal and is due nonguaranteed base salaries of $13.5 million, $15.5 million and $17.5 million with corresponding salary-cap numbers of $15 million, $15.5 million and $17.5 million.

Paying Clowney is simply a good football decision and the cost of doing business.

The Texans are encouraged by Watt's diligent rehabilitation and outlook for a full recovery from a broken leg, but they're not blind to his recent injury history. They'll give him every opportunity to establish himself again and work in tandem with Clowney and outside linebacker Whitney Mercilus. THE REST OF THE STORY

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I get real nervous when I hear McNair "signaling"..............real nervous.
 
JJ Watt if he gets cut it would be a huge blow. But it could cost the team money. As really nearly had Clowney written as a bust. But glad he has redeemed himself.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Texans
As Texans look to future, can they afford to pay both J.J. Watt and Jadeveon Clowney?
By Aaron Wilson, Houston Chronicle

January 29, 2018 Updated: January 29, 2018 6:53pm
The emergence of Texans Pro Bowl outside linebacker Jadeveon Clowney as one of the most disruptive pass rushers and run-stoppers in the NFL has him on the verge of achieving life-changing wealth.

The former top overall draft pick from South Carolina is under contract for next season under a $13.846 million fifth-year club option, but he's poised to land a blockbuster contract that could make him the highest paid non-quarterback in the league.

The Texans already have signaled through owner Bob McNair and general manager Brian Gaine that they want to reward Clowney and secure him for the future. No formal negotiations have been launched, but it's one of the primary items on the Texans' offseason agenda.

Paying Clowney more than the six-year, $114.1 million deal of Denver Broncos outside linebacker Von Miller will be an extremely expensive undertaking. Miller got $70 million guaranteed and his contract pays him an average of $19.016 million per year.

Clowney is worth it, though, and the salary cap keeps rising. It's projected to rise as high as $180 million this offseason. And the Texans could have as much as $60 million in salary-cap space heading into free agency.

Can the Texans afford to have two $100 million defenders in their front seven? Conceivably, yes, considering that star quarterback Deshaun Watson is under a relatively inexpensive rookie contract.

Still, the shelf life of Texans star defensive end J.J. Watt has to be considered in terms of the big picture. A three-time NFL Defensive Player of the Year, Watt, 28, has been limited to just eight games, 23 tackles and 1 1/2 sacks over the past two seasons due to a pair of back surgeries to repair a herniated disk two seasons ago and a gruesome broken leg he suffered last season.

Watt is due a nonguaranteed $11 million base salary this year and carries a $15 millions salary-figure. That's all manageable for now. He has three years after the 2018 season under his current deal and is due nonguaranteed base salaries of $13.5 million, $15.5 million and $17.5 million with corresponding salary-cap numbers of $15 million, $15.5 million and $17.5 million.

Paying Clowney is simply a good football decision and the cost of doing business.

The Texans are encouraged by Watt's diligent rehabilitation and outlook for a full recovery from a broken leg, but they're not blind to his recent injury history. They'll give him every opportunity to establish himself again and work in tandem with Clowney and outside linebacker Whitney Mercilus. THE REST OF THE STORY

**************************************************************************************************************************

I get real nervous when I hear McNair "signaling"..............real nervous.
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One of the more convincing articles on why Clowney should get extended. My big question, when do we finally get to see 16+ games featuring Watt, Clowney, Mercilus and the rest of this defense on the field at the same time?
 
PapaL said:
Cutting JJ would save us $9M and we'd carry a $6M dead cap hit. Post 6/1 we'd save $11M and carry dead capof $4M this year and $2M next year.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/j.j.-watt-7726/
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This would pose some interesting thoughts but spin it with some reality.

1. Will we ever get to see Watt, Clowney and Mercilus on the field together for a full season at 85-100%? Personally, I've been waiting to see what would happen to opposing offenses if it could happen.

2. Clowney was down 2 years when Watt was playing out of his mind. Clowney has finally come around from a health and performance standpoint but Watt has been on the shelf for the past 2 seasons.

3. In all reality, at this point Watt would yield the team a big nothing on the trade market b/c of his past 2 seasons of injuries.

4. If the team had to trade Watt or Clowney, Clowney would probably have the bigger trade value but even that would be tempered due to his rookie contract expiring in 2019. Teams aren't going to trade top picks for a potential rental. The only way this could happen is if the interested team could get Clowney to agree in principal to a new contract before the trade is confirmed. Not sure this is legal within the rules of the NFL but if it was, might be the way to get a decent return on a trade.

5. Probably the best approach would be, hope Watt returns to form and can give a full season. Give Clowney a new contract that protects the team. Watt is not going to hold the team hostage for a new contract. He's always stated that he would walk away from the game when he couldn't deliver the results he expects. I think Watt will call it a career after this contract, I'm just hoping he has enough left in the tank to go out somewhere near the top so his after football aspirations remain relevant. Missing 2 seasons on the football field has knocked some of the shine off his persona.

Yeah, I'm still holding out a little hope that the Texans and all of fans get to see a season of this group on the field together......terrorizing offenses and saving the teams defensive backfields asses.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
3. In all reality, at this point Watt would yield the team a big nothing on the trade market b/c of his past 2 seasons of injuries.

4. If the team had to trade Watt or Clowney, Clowney would probably have the bigger trade value but even that would be tempered due to his rookie contract expiring in 2019. Teams aren't going to trade top picks for a potential rental. The only way this could happen is if the interested team could get Clowney to agree in principal to a new contract before the trade is confirmed. Not sure this is legal within the rules of the NFL but if it was, might be the way to get a decent return on a trade.
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Gotta disagree with the above... Watt is one of only 2 ever (Taylor) to win defensive player of the year. He's been injured but is still young and to think he wouldn't have trade value is rather naive imho. Clowney had a nice couple years, but nothing compared to Watts 3 great ones. There would be a huge market for J.J. this year, but it would never happen
 
JB said:
Gotta disagree with the above... Watt is one of only 2 ever (Taylor) to win defensive player of the year. He's been injured but is still young and to think he wouldn't have trade value is rather naive imho. Clowney had a nice couple years, but nothing compared to Watts 3 great ones. There would be a huge market for J.J. this year, but it would never happen
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Watt would be tradeable....that is a guarantee. What he would yield in a trade could be debated. He came off those back surgeries and didn't look like himself last season before a broken leg ended his season. I guess one way to look at it, he's had 2 seasons of reduced wear-n-tear on his body but those 2 seasons were not spent on "RNR" under palm trees sipping Foo-Foo Drinks. He's been in surgery and rehab most of that time just trying to be ready for a full rebound. A bigger concern is the back injury which may not let him perform in trenches and dominate the way he did in the past. Teams would know this as well, so trying to pry coveted top picks out their hands would be tough and if the Texans made him available for trade...I believe most teams would view this as a salary dump and would work a trade accordingly.

At this point, the Texans are probably better off just keeping their guy and hoping he has a big bounce back through the balance of his contract. I think both parties win in this scenario.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
Watt would be tradeable....that is a guarantee. What he would yield in a trade could be debated. He came off those back surgeries and didn't look like himself last season before a broken leg ended his season. I guess one way to look at it, he's had 2 seasons of reduced wear-n-tear on his body but those 2 seasons were not spent on "RNR" under palm trees sipping Foo-Foo Drinks. He's been in surgery and rehab most of that time just trying to be ready for a full rebound. A bigger concern is the back injury which may not let him perform in trenches and dominate the way he did in the past. Teams would know this as well, so trying to pry coveted top picks out their hands would be tough and if the Texans made him available for trade...I believe most teams would view this as a salary dump and would work a trade accordingly.

At this point, the Texans are probably better off just keeping their guy and hoping he has a big bounce back through the balance of his contract. I think both parties win in this scenario.
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I get your point, but GM's and more importantly owners like to believe they're smart... all it takes is one to believe that he will return to near MVP level.
 
JB said:
I get your point, but GM's and more importantly owners like to believe they're smart... all it takes is one to believe that he will return to near MVP level.
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I like your thinking....if the Texans could find a solid landing spot for Watt, with any possibility of getting something decent in return, it might be Green Bay. The Packers are lacking on their DL and nothing would get a fan base more fired up than bringing back one of their own....especially a JJ Watt. But, getting the Packers to the table to discuss a trade would be based more on blind passion than logic.

Like Clowney, if a deal with the Packers yielded a 2018 RD2, 2019 RD2 and another pick (RD4 or RD5) this year or next, I would consider the trade a steal for the Texans based on the "unknown" of Watt's full recovery.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
I like your thinking....if the Texans could find a solid landing spot for Watt, with any possibility of getting something decent in return, it might be Green Bay. The Packers are lacking on their DL and nothing would get a fan base more fired up than bringing back one of their own....especially a JJ Watt. But, getting the Packers to the table to discuss a trade would be based more on blind passion than logic.

Like Clowney, if a deal with the Packers yielded a 2018 RD2, 2019 RD2 and another pick (RD4 or RD5) this year or next, I would consider the trade a steal for the Texans based on the "unknown" of Watt's full recovery.
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I just find it very difficult to believe that Bob McNair would permit management to trade JJ no matter how attractive the offer by the other party ?
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Like Clowney, if a deal with the Packers yielded a 2018 RD2, 2019 RD2 and another pick (RD4 or RD5) this year or next, I would consider the trade a steal for the Texans based on the "unknown" of Watt's full recovery.
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I think that the above is not really realistic but due to recent trades of vets, but I do think Watt would bring an '18 1st and a '19 3rd
 
It's about allocating resources. The eagles have one of the best front even though they don't get alot of sacks. They stop the run and pressure the qb. I wouldn't pay Clowney von Miller or mack money either. I like his progress, still concerned about his injuries,but he hasn't had a dominant season yet. That's not to say he can't or won't. I think a healthy JJ has alot more versatility even if he doesn't approach what he was. Now some may say he hasn't been healthy in 2 yrs, that's true. Having that kind of resources tied up in dline when they can shore up the backend makes more sense. Especially while Watson is on his rookie deal. I would let clowney play out his contract before anything happens.
 
IDEXAN said:
I just find it very difficult to believe that Bob McNair would permit management to trade JJ no matter how attractive the offer by the other party ?
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1st and foremost the Houston Texans are a business and more importantly than the product on the field the McNair's aren't going to do anything that might hurt Houston Texans Inc.

That means Watt stays his entire contract, regardless of what's best for the on field product. If anything Texans fans should know how the McNair's operate after 15 yrs.
 
steelbtexan said:
1st and foremost the Houston Texans are a business and more importantly than the product on the field the McNair's aren't going to do anything that might hurt Houston Texans Inc.

That means Watt stays his entire contract, regardless of what's best for the on field product. If anything Texans fans should know how the McNair's operate after 15 yrs.
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I sorta agree with your comment here Steelb but wonder if it might be contradictory ?
Event though Watt is probably the most popular player ever on a Texans roster but if management could improve our team by trading Watt, wouldn't that logically mean we would improve our ability to win games and therefor be more competitive and is there anything that NFL fans like as much as winning ? I think not, therefor the fan base might actually approve of a trade if the terms of the deal made the Texans a better NFL team.
 
They held onto Cushing so why in the world would they trade JJ. Highly doubt it people. We're talking about the injuries and suspension for using PEDs. And yet he's still a Texan. JJ like Cushing will finish out their perspective contracts.

Clowney will get his just do. They have the money plus certain players like JoJo are out of here. JJ might have to restructure his contract as well, I think.
 
I think you ride out the fifth year with Clowney and keep watt currently as is. If watt is hurt again then dump or rework him next off season and pay Clowney big then. If both play well then we decide next year what to do to keep both.
 
Hey folks...JB and I were only discussing the possibilities.

I mentioned that the Texans more than likely let Watt finish his contract and I think Watt hangs up his cleats after that. My hope, Watt finds a way to return 85%+ and Clowney continues to grow as a player and the Texans finally get a chance to see the two of them on the field for a full season.
 
steelbtexan said:
1st and foremost the Houston Texans are a business and more importantly than the product on the field the McNair's aren't going to do anything that might hurt Houston Texans Inc.

That means Watt stays his entire contract, regardless of what's best for the on field product. If anything Texans fans should know how the McNair's operate after 15 yrs.
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AJ was also the face of the franchise and most were sure he would finish his career here... McNair will go with the advise given him more than likely. If Watt is shopped (doubtful) and thevalue is deemed sufficient, then McNair won't veto a trade for monetary purposes
 
Texansballer74 said:
They held onto Cushing so why in the world would they trade JJ. Highly doubt it people. We're talking about the injuries and suspension for using PEDs. And yet he's still a Texan. JJ like Cushing will finish out their perspective contracts.

Clowney will get his just do. They have the money plus certain players like JoJo are out of here. JJ might have to restructure his contract as well, I think.
Click to expand...

Cushing had no (or insufficient) value
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
The only way this could happen is if the interested team could get Clowney to agree in principal to a new contract before the trade is confirmed. Not sure this is legal within the rules of the NFL but if it was, might be the way to get a decent return on a trade.
Click to expand...

Yes it is permitted. That's
CloakNNNdagger said:
Begs the question how he was considered to have value for the Texans to hang on to him for so long.
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Last year there was no cap space to be gained by cutting him. Now you can question the coaches for why they still considered him a starter.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Begs the question how he was considered to have value for the Texans to hang on to him for so long.
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Value of Cushing 2017 could've been vet experience in helping Cunningham and Cole. No longer a need. Needs to be gone with a pick in trade if poss but cut if not. Either way his cap savings can go elsewhere to help fill a hole. Almost $8 m should bring a starting DB.
 
zshawn10 said:
Aaron Wilson@AaronWilson_NFL

Texans GM Brian Gaine said team is evaluating possibility of doing a contract extension for Jadeveon Clowney prior to regular season, mentioned Benardrick McKinney as another core player the team wants on long-term deal

8:14 AM - Feb 28, 2018
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I wonder if GM Gaine unlike Rick Smith will give some consideration to doing contracts during the RS ?
 
This is so dumb but Sando spoke with NFL executives at the Combine and compiled a list of 10 potential trades that were discussed

The 10 trades mentioned:
Seahawks trade S Earl Thomas to Cowboys for DL David Irving and a 2018 second- or third-round pick

Texans trade OLB Jadeveon Clowney to the Patriots for a 2018 first-round pick

Cowboys trade WR Dez Bryant to the Dolphins or Bears for a 2018 sixth-round pick

Raiders trade a second-round pick to the Bucs for DT Gerald McCoy

Patriots trade WR Brandin Cooks to the Redskins or Bears for a 2018 second-round pick

Chargers trade QB Philip Rivers to the Vikings for a 2018 second- and 2019 first-round picks

Broncos trade CB Aqib Talib to the Patriots for a late-round pick

Eagles trade QB Nick Foles to the Browns or another QB needy team

Bills trade OT Cordy Glenn to the Colts for a late-round pick

Seahawks trade DE Michael Bennett to the Falcons or another team with a similar defensive scheme
http://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/22659098/nfl-trades-happen-2018-offseason-according-execs
 
JB said:
yeah, if you're going to trade JDC find a different partner
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I think a slam dunk partner would be Tampa Bay if the Texans really wanted to get serious. TB has a big need for someone like Clowney and I'd be pretty certain that they couldn't draft anyone on his current level in 2018.

Again, this is just an exercise of playing the "what if" game. This is just an exercise.
 
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zshawn10 said:
This is so dumb but Sando spoke with NFL executives at the Combine and compiled a list of 10 potential trades that were discussed

The 10 trades mentioned:
Seahawks trade S Earl Thomas to Cowboys for DL David Irving and a 2018 second- or third-round pick

Texans trade OLB Jadeveon Clowney to the Patriots for a 2018 first-round pick
Never happen. 1. We want to see what a Watt/Clowney year looks like and 2. We wouldn't do it for just a #1.. #1 and #3, probably.

Cowboys trade WR Dez Bryant to the Dolphins or Bears for a 2018 sixth-round pick
Not enough.

Raiders trade a second-round pick to the Bucs for DT Gerald McCoy

Patriots trade WR Brandin Cooks to the Redskins or Bears for a 2018 second-round pick

Chargers trade QB Philip Rivers to the Vikings for a 2018 second- and 2019 first-round picks
But why?

Broncos trade CB Aqib Talib to the Patriots for a late-round pick

Eagles trade QB Nick Foles to the Browns or another QB needy team
They seem more than ready to ship their SB winning qb, which weirds me out. I know I know.. still.
Bills trade OT Cordy Glenn to the Colts for a late-round pick

Seahawks trade DE Michael Bennett to the Falcons or another team with a similar defensive scheme
http://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/22659098/nfl-trades-happen-2018-offseason-according-execs
Click to expand...
 
The Cowboys would be lucky to get a 6th round pick for Dez Bryant. He’s a has been. Declining for the last three years but still as hard a diva to deal with as ever. Just not worth much anymore.
 
IDEXAN said:
I don't think the idea of trading Clowney is something that should be totally discounted out of hand by Gain & O'Brien.
JD is good, damn good, but is he worthy of being paid as the best non-QB in the NFL ? IMO no.
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If it weren't for past injury history and future injury concerns, I'd say he is. As it is, I'd just do what the Redskins and Steelers have done. Franchise tag him for 2 years and let him hit the free market.
 
JB said:
AJ was also the face of the franchise and most were sure he would finish his career here... McNair will go with the advise given him more than likely. If Watt is shopped (doubtful) and thevalue is deemed sufficient, then McNair won't veto a trade for monetary purposes
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I think the gushing goodbyes to Cushing shows that the Texans learned their lesson with AJ.
 
What breaking the bank for Jadeveon Clowney would mean for J.J. Watt, Texans

What does a new deal look like?
So how much money could Clowney actually sign for? It’s possible the Texans could make him the highest-paid non-quarterback in the NFL.

The league's top two defensive contracts belong to defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh and outside linebacker Von Miller. In March 2015, the Miami Dolphinssigned Suh to a six-year, $114.375 million free-agent contract, including $59.955 million guaranteed, the most guaranteed money given to a non-quarterback. After the Denver Broncos won the Super Bowl, they signed the Super Bowl MVP Miller to a six-year, $114.1 million contract.

Aaron Donald and defensive end Khalil Mack. If either player signs a new contract before the Texans sign Clowney, that could affect what that year's top pick will get. Although Clowney has played in fewer games because of his injuries -- and sacks aren’t everything -- his stats don’t stack up to either player.

Mack, after establishing himself as one of the NFL's elite pass-rushers, is also looking for a new contract from the Raiders this offseason. Clowney has 20 sacks, 158 tackles, 48 tackles for a loss and 4 forced fumbles in 47 games over four seasons. Mack, picked No. 5 in 2014, has played in all 64 regular-season games and has 303 tackles and 40.5 sacks. Donald, taken 13th, has played in 62 games and has 204 tackles and 39 sacks.

Neither player has signed an extension yet, although Donald held out for a new contract last offseason and into training camp. While the Texans are trying to get a long-term deal done, they could also let Clowney play out the 2018 season and then put the franchise tag on him for 2019, when he would make in the neighborhood of $18 million.

Can Texans afford Clowney and Watt?
One difference between Clowney's situation and Suh's and Miller's is that the Texans already have a superstar defensive lineman with a massive contract in Watt.

In 2014, Houston gave the three-time Defensive Player of the Year a six-year contract worth $100 million and $30.88 million guaranteed. They are paying Watt $15 million over each of the next two seasons, then $15.5 million in 2020 and $17 million in 2021.

Houston has a lot of cap space this offseason and the luxury of not having a massive quarterback contract on its books. Now is the perfect time to lock up Clowney before they have to pay Deshaun Watson down the road.

Houston has the money to fit both defensive stars, but with significant needs on both sides of the ball, it will be a long-term challenge for the Texans to potentially spend a combined $35 million on two players on their defensive line. Clowney will get paid because he's an elite defensive talent, but how the Texans handle that contract and make it work will be interesting.

New York Giants will pay Jason Pierre-Paul and Olivier Vernon a combined $34.5 million, while the Jacksonville Jaguars will pay three players -- Marcell Dareus, Malik Jackson and Calais Campbell -- a combined $43.175 million, about $14.39 million per player.

The Jaguars can invest more than $58.8 million in their defensive line because, as of now, they have spent less than that on their entire offense. Similarly, the Giants balance out the high price tag for Pierre-Paul and Vernon by paying less than $2 million more for the rest of the defensive line and paying just $3.8 million at linebacker.

Houston obviously hopes Watt can contribute -- and stay healthy -- next season and beyond, but if it gets to the point he cannot perform at the $15 million level, there is an out in his contract.
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This could be a negotiating point for a franchise tag or an extended contract...........probably won't make him happy.


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Texans' Jadeveon Clowney's fifth-year option reduced due to position change
By Aaron Wilson, Houston Chronicle

March 15, 2018 Updated: March 15, 2018 9:07am

When the Texans picked up the fifth-year club option for former top overall pick Jadeveon Clowney a year ago, he was originally due a $13.846 million base salary for this season.

With Clowney now classified as a two-time Pro Bowl outside linebacker, the fifth-year option has been reduced to $12.306 million, according to NFL Players Association figures.

That is fully guaranteed for this season with the start of the NFL league year.

As one of the most disruptive pass rushers and run-stoppers in the NFL, Clowney has emerged as an extremely valuable commodity.

Ideally, the Texans would like to get something done with Clowney before the season starts or even training camp.

“That’s something that we’re currently evaluating right now, about the feasibility of that," Texans general manager Brian Gaine said at the NFL scouting combine." It’s certainly something we have interest in.”
 
thanks,.... not really a tool McNair allows his GM to use much and one reason why the holdup tagging and paying big FA contract? Would be fine locking JD up first then working on plan B.
 
No idea if McNair has limited it in any fashion. They normally have not let tag worthy players approach the end of their contracts.
 
CnD, am i wrong in recollecting your prediction that Clowney's post rookie surgery would only guarantee performance for one or two years max?

If not, did you underestimate the benefits of the procedure he underwent or is he a fluke?
 
I think Clowney was drafted as a LB and has always been treated as such.


I reserve the right to not correctly remember draft day. It’s been a while.

—-
Draft night he was called a DE. 2017 Probowl he was called a DE, 2018 Probowl was OLB. Yeah good luck w that! Probably should split the difference.
 
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