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All encompassing Bill O'Brien thread

Shishkabob said:
Yea go back and look at the stats over those 6 games and tell me they didn't work well together. were you at training camp during both the open and closed portions to know that they didn't work on any of these plays with Watson, or is that just your fan speculation? it's was reported Obrien had 2 different style of offenses going in training camp to accommodate both of his qbs.

and lets just say your theory that Obrien didn't have any of this stuff in his playbook beforehand, and he just made it up on the fly. if he can develop an offense that suits Watson that well that quickly, is like to see what he could do with a hole off season of working on it
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He seemed to switch nicely from pocket passer scheme to Keenum also.
 
 
TexansBull said:
The players like OB. He hasn’t lost the locker room.
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DW4 has spoken on coaches behalf but he has not had long under him.

Outside of a few players making comments to the press what makes you sure OB hasn't lost his players. I am not saying he has because there is little to no proof. However it is easy to speculate based on the lack luster performances the last month of the season.

I realize players may have checked out based on the hardships of the season and all the injuries. However I would rather the team show some pride and play with a bit of a chip on their shoulders to close out the season. I don't believe those last few blowouts are due to us not matching up well.
 
Shishkabob said:
the superbowl he won with the team tony dungy built? i wont hold my breath on gruden, hopefully for his and the raiders sake carr turns it around, because gruden loves every single qb in the world and thinks they are all pro bowlers
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And which quarterback whisperer was it that said Mallet and Hoyer were quarterbacks this city should be proud of? Oh that's right, the same quarterback whisperer who started Savage over Watson then went 3-4 with Watson instead of possibly 6-1 due to "his" mistakes. Don't base Gruden's quarterback coaching ability on a TV program. Gruden won a superbowl with Brad Johnson as his QB.
 
Mr teX said:
You are just flat out wrong.


Why don't you take a break from your agenda.
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Savage addressed this but you are correct that I worded that incorrectly.

"I think [with] pretty much every team, the backup’s going to get reps with the ones,” Savage said.
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Backups get some 1st team reps. I should have said they never flipped the script and gave Watson starter reps.

When there is a QB competition they typically either alternate days as starter or alter the script to divide the time equally. That didn't happen.

It's a far cry from "a few" snaps after the 1st preseason game.
 
TxnsJuggernaut said:
DW4 has spoken on coaches behalf but he has not had long under him.

Outside of a few players making comments to the press what makes you sure OB hasn't lost his players. I am not saying he has because there is little to no proof. However it is easy to speculate based on the lack luster performances the last month of the season.

I realize players may have checked out based on the hardships of the season and all the injuries. However I would rather the team show some pride and play with a bit of a chip on their shoulders to close out the season. I don't believe those last few blowouts are due to us not matching up well.
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Throw Mickey Mouse out there with a helmet, great heart and a chip on his shoulder...........and he will still look like Mickey Mouse with a helmet playing football.
 
When you break this down, you guys are arguing about nonsense. Yes, Savage got the start after BoB (& Nuk) publically backed him to be the guy...he lasted 1 friggin half before BoB pulled him in favor of Watson. A rookie qb he supposedly was afraid of playing according to some. Sometimes I wonder if you guys actually read over this stuff before you post it.
 
TexansBull said:
Nah. You doubt the power of Watson. Everyone healthy - 9 wins. Improved Oline - 10. Improved secondary - 11. Not running Lamar Miller up the middle - 16 wins.

Regardless - we should be a wild card playoff team at the minimum.
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:spit:
 
Uncle Rico said:
Big ol shrug from me concerning buttchins extension. As long as Deshaun is healthy we are good offensively. His ability to go off script and improvise are what wins the games. O'Brien should thank Deshaun for saving his job really.

Let's hope he learns from the blatant and obvious coaching errors he made this year and actually helps the team win moving forward.

Can only hope Vrabel gets a HC job somewhere else so that the defense can improve also.
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Did O'Brien actually get an extension or was he merely retained for the final year of his contract??

There's a difference:
Extension = "I like what you're doing."
Retention = "You haven't totally pissed me off or excited me yet so I'm giving you one more year to prove yourself"
 
TxnsJuggernaut said:
DW4 has spoken on coaches behalf but he has not had long under him.

Outside of a few players making comments to the press what makes you sure OB hasn't lost his players. I am not saying he has because there is little to no proof. However it is easy to speculate based on the lack luster performances the last month of the season.

I realize players may have checked out based on the hardships of the season and all the injuries. However I would rather the team show some pride and play with a bit of a chip on their shoulders to close out the season. I don't believe those last few blowouts are due to us not matching up well.
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I think it was Seth Payne that said it best. Guys don’t “quit” on Sundays (more likely to get injured, playing for next contract, pride, etc) they sort of lose focus during the week. The lack of preparedness shows on Sundays.
 
ObsiWan said:
Did O'Brien actually get an extension or was he merely retained for the final year of his contract??

There's a difference:
Extension = "I like what you're doing."
Retention = "You haven't totally pissed me off or excited me yet so I'm giving you one more year to prove yourself"
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Pancakes is reporting he is "expected" to get an extension.

Of course he was "expected" to get fired too.
 
ung14 said:
The lack of preparedness shows on Sundays.
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Is it lack of preparedness, or lack of talent? Guys can go out there and play their hearts out, but if you ain't got the talent its easy to look like you don't know what you're doing. Exhibit A:See our ST the last 4783290749087 years.
 
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Mr teX said:
Is it lack of preparedness, or lack of talent? Guys can go out there and play their hearts out, but if you ain't got the talent its easy to look like you don't know what you're doing. Exhibit A:See our ST the last 4783290749087 years.
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Lack of talent and bad system. Getting rid of Kubiak guys then having a very predictable offense has yielded predictable results.

bOODRO87 said:
Lol, O'Brien never gets credit for anything positive around here. Quite funny.
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What should he get credit for? Heck even O'Brien focuses more on blaming Rick for stuff.
 
Mr teX said:
Is it lack of preparedness, or lack of talent? Guys can go out there and play their hearts out, but if you ain't got the talent its easy to look like you don't know what you're doing. Exhibit A:See our ST the last 4783290749087 years.
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The subject was whether teams quit on coaches/seasons once a season is lost. It wasn't about how teams get to a lost season. It was about how players respond. Talent is irrelevant.
 
bOODRO87 said:
Lol, O'Brien never gets credit for anything positive around here. Quite funny.
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Mike Meltser said that when BOB interviewed for the Bills HC job, he told them that his plan to solve their QB issues was to bring in Brian Hoyer. Lucky for them, but, unfortunately for us, we had to suffer watching BOB’s “answer” at QB. This is just one example of how piss poor he is at talent evaluation. He continued to start XSF even though he should be the first guy the new GM should cut. Then there is his failure to match his scheme with the players on the roster. Of course, I’m referring to running Lamar Miller up the middle when everyone knows that he needs to be put with the ball in space. His offense got worse every year with his players except for the games Deshaun played in. He is supposed to be an offensive genius. The truth is he sucks at it.
 
What difference does it make what happened leading up to the decision as to who was going to start at quarterback? O'Brien was the one who spent most the time with both of them at training camp. Isn't the "final" decision the responsibility of the head coach? Is our head coach so indecisive he can't even make "his" decisions? Wasn't anyone else watching all the other times OB played the, I don't have a clue who the QB should be, the times before. So now he's not even responsible for "his" coaching decisions, we're once again going to make excuses and play the blame shifting game...

Maybe they can link up and vote on play calls next year and OB can then get a pass on all his stupid in game decisions too.
 
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TheKDog said:
[


Lack of talent and bad system. Getting rid of Kubiak guys then having a very predictable offense has yielded predictable results.
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Yes we got "rid" of Schaub...& Foster......& AJ.....& OD b/c they were done. & based on how those guys' careers went after they left us, getting rid of them was the right call. The rest left on their own for greener pastures.

Every fan claims to be able to predict their teams' offense. I remember when folks here were saying the same thing about Kubiak's offense. Fact of the matter is as fans, if you watch a team long enough you can do this to some degree.
 
You guys need to let go of our past QBs because it doesn't matter now. O'Brien got the best performances out of those QBs and I'd go through it all over again because it allowed us to draft Watson.

O'Brien deserves some credit for coaching a team that was the #1 offense before Watson tore his ACL. Just because you can't stand OB doesn't mean you can solely put the success on Watson. That's not how it works. No one would give a **** about Belichick if we all followed that line of thinking.
 
infantrycak said:
The subject was whether teams quit on coaches/seasons once a season is lost. It wasn't about how teams get to a lost season. It was about how players respond. Talent is irrelevant.
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In any case, that's a lack of professionalism on the players part not necessarily a reflection on OB or the coaching staff.
 
infantrycak said:
Watson and OB did not work well together. OB couldn't even see what he had. So when Watson went in OB had to improvise rather than run what he wants. This is not like OB saw Watson, designed a modified O for him and the whole team practiced it in training camp. It was a hail Mary. Part of that was letting Watson play more like he did in college so of course he liked it.

Jury is out on what a deliberate pairing looks like.
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:sleep: I think I’ll just take that fwiw because someone, not mentioning any names, has a red ass because OB wasn’t canned.
 
Mr teX said:
Yes we got "rid" of Schaub...& Foster......& AJ.....& OD b/c they were done. & based on how those guys' careers went after they left us, getting rid of them was the right call. The rest left on their own for greener pastures.

Every fan claims to be able to predict their teams' offense. I remember when folks here were saying the same thing about Kubiak's offense. Fact of the matter is as fans, if you watch a team long enough you can do this to some degree.
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How's the ol doing?
 
Mr teX said:
Truthfully it irrelevant considering that 3 out of the 5 guys from the Kubiak o-line made decisions that ultimately were out of our control. Maybe you should call up Rick & ask him why he didn't priortize Brooks & Jones' re-signing. While you're at it, ask him the same thing about Glover Quinn.
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Not to mention the NFL graded XSF with a 1-2 round grade during the draft. It's VERY unfortunate he was one of those high-graded picks that never pan out for teams.

"We talked about them getting stronger inside on both sides of the football. Played some tackle, but when they kicked him inside (to guard) it was a completely different picture. He is a plug-and play guy; a Day 1 starter. With (Jadeveon) Clowney on defensive side and Su'a-Filo on offensive side, I think GM Rick Smith is making a statement." -- Mike Mayock
 
Marcus said:
But you wanted him gone, you cannot deny that.
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I wanted both gone and thought neither would be.

Really irrelevant though. We saw what an OB QB competition looked like between Mallett & Hoyer. At no point did he think Watson worthy of such a competition with Tom friggin' Savage.

And lest you've forgotten, this is not the 1st time OB has lost his QB conviction within who(ops)... less than one game.
 
bOODRO87 said:
You guys need to let go of our past QBs because it doesn't matter now. O'Brien got the best performances out of those QBs and I'd go through it all over again because it allowed us to draft Watson.

O'Brien deserves some credit for coaching a team that was the #1 offense before Watson tore his ACL. Just because you can't stand OB doesn't mean you can solely put the success on Watson. That's not how it works. No one would give a **** about Belichick if we all followed that line of thinking.
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Lol see this is the thing with these guys & why they sound so ludicrous. They expect us to believe that the chief reason our offense took off in DW4's starts was only b/c BoB completely chucked most of his offense & offensive philosophy out of the window when Watson began starting.....The rest of the reasoning is b/c Watson was out there just making everything happen on his own....even though the video evidence clearly shows otherwise.........& this was all done midseason.................after he spent all OTA's, minicamp, training camp & preseason teaching him the offense....:rolleyes:. No doubt some of this happened, but likely not to the extreme some in here are proclaiming.

What everyone saw is what this offense can look like with real competent talent back there. Nothing more nothing less.
 
infantrycak said:
Or it tells the obvious, Smith's wife has cancer.
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Smiths wife was diagnosed in September. Curious he waited four months (end of season) to take the leave.

As I posed earlier it appeared to me that Raye (or some other incompetent) was performing the GM duties for the last few months. All those FA slugs signed to fill out the roster were not up to the standards that the godfather had set in the past.

I don't know why godfather waited till the season was finished before making it official.

But as a poster on the other site stated "my spidey senses are tingling".

:coffee:
 
infantrycak said:
I wanted both gone and thought neither would be.

Really irrelevant though. We saw what an OB QB competition looked like between Mallett & Hoyer. At no point did he think Watson worthy of such a competition with Tom friggin' Savage.

And lest you've forgotten, this is not the 1st time OB has lost his QB conviction within who(ops)... less than one game.
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you're beating a dead irrelevant horse. For 1, both sucked & the choice between Mallet & Hoyer was having to choose between being punched in the face or the Nads. 2, neither Mallet or Hoyer are here anymore & neither had any cap implications beyond their 1 year here. & again, you're literally bitching about 1 1/2 of football that Savage got to play over Watson. You've already been proven wrong about Watson not getting 1st team reps, You've been proven wrong about the amount of Watson's scrambling when he was starting in past threads, & You've ultimately been proven wrong about BoB being skittish about playing rookie qbs. Dude give it up, you & a few others continue to look more & more ridiculous with this.
 
Seems easy to ***** about the Bob taking Hoyer.
Who was available?

Locker?
Mallet?
Sanchez?
Matt Moore
Shaun hill?
I guess if we picked any of those QBs at the time. We would be discussing that qb instead of Hoyer. I believe at the time Hoyer was picked because of familiarity with bobs system.

Draft was Winston and Marita going 1 and 2. No way we would have moved up.

Grayson went to the saints at 75.

That year for qbs was slim pickens

Not defending Bob on this but people aren'
Looking at the big picture

We took Johnson and McKinney with 1st 2 picks.
 
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Mr teX said:
Truthfully it irrelevant considering that 3 out of the 5 guys from the Kubiak o-line made decisions that ultimately were out of our control. Maybe you should call up Rick & ask him why he didn't priortize Brooks & Jones' re-signing. While you're at it, ask him the same thing about Glover Quinn.
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Really it's just bad luck and out of his control?

I know OBrien loves to leak that nothing is his fault but this is getting ridiculous
 
Wolf said:
Seems easy to ***** about the Bob taking Hoyer.
Who was available?
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Who says he had to change?

Fitz was coming off 95.3 rating, 65.2 QBR. Fitz was under contract on a 2 year $7.3 mil deal.
Hoyer's best prior was 82.6 rating, 53.9 QBR. We signed Hoyer to a 2 year $10.5 mil deal.

So Hoyer needed a substantial step up to get even.

Hoyer went 91.4 rating, 56.1 QBR. (After the mucking about with Mallett). So a modestly more expensive step down.
 
infantrycak said:
Who says he had to change?

Fitz was coming off 95.3 rating, 65.2 QBR. Fitz was under contract on a 2 year $7.3 mil deal.
Hoyer's best was 82.6 rating, 53.9 QBR. We signed Hoyer to a 2 year $10.5 mil deal.

So Hoyer needed a substantial step up to get even.

Hoyer went 91.4 rating, 56.1 QBR. (After the mucking about with Mallett). So a modestly more expensive step down.
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OBrien also benched Fitzpatrick for Mallet.

It's pretty incredible that he can't even start the best guy on his own team
 
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Marcus said:
:sleep: I think I’ll just take that fwiw because someone, not mentioning any names, has a red ass because OB wasn’t canned.
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I'd rather he was canned .... When he took over this team it was a QB away from being a real contender. What he did was bring in a bunch of garbage at that position of need , the rest of the team carried those garbage QB's to three consecutive 9-7 records ... while the offense got worse on a yearly basis. He let opportunity after opportunity pass by before the owner finally b!tched enough about the QB spot that he had a high draft pick forced upon him .... then proceeded to start Tom (below) Average ahead of that guy.

All that time the key players were aging or moving on ....


He let what was one of the best OL's in the league fall to pieces .... now its one of the worst.


He's made dozens of mistakes in clock / game management .... but we're not gonna talk about those , according to him.


He's shown me absolutely nothing that says he's anything but average or below as a head coach.


Yeah , injuries derailed this season .... but he wasn't part of the solution - Watson playing otherworldly made him look competent for a string of games. Then it was back to ..... average to below.
 
We're now back to Mallet! This thread..

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