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All encompassing Bill O'Brien thread

Earl34 said:
Stephanie Stradley had some interesting tweets on the Texans organization.

“Because of the way things are done, Texans’ coaches are forced to have more say than they should. GM should be the smartest person in the room.”

“McNair did not have a GM to deter him from his worse impulses”

https://mobile.twitter.com/StephStradley/status/946417533116182528
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But wouldn’t those assumptions go against the whole narrative about Smith and O’Brien having philosophical differences on the roster composition?

I think Smith actually was starting to assert his authority over personnel decisions which was frustrating O’Brien.

And, I’m not a Rick Smith fan but it really is messed up that it seems like he’s the one being punished when he’s responsible for the only positive for this season (bringing in Deshaun Watson). The roster worked when he was in and everything fell apart when he was injured. If O’Brien can use the injuries excuse shouldn’t Smith also get a pass? Again, I’m not a Rick Smith fan but the logic here on why O’Brien should stay and get more control of the roster while Rick Smith is shown the door is messed up. That’s why both should’ve been let go because neither is blameless for the mediocrity over the past 4 years.

And when Deshaun Watson went down the obvious answer to keep the Texans competitive was to sign Kaepernick. Instead we had to suffer through Savage and T.J. Yates. We all know who was behind that decision, so is it really fair to say that Smith should’ve deterred McNair from his worst impulses? You’re going to capitulate to the wishes of your boss to stay employed which is why Smith still has his executive VP title.
 
ColeThornton said:
With McNair's money I'd be competing for Jon Gruden, with my money it would be Jon Bon Jovi. But seriously, Raider fans have got to be fired up their organization is aiming high and going after a guy who has proven he can do it...
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Bud Grant said the key to being a successful NFL coach are a good wife , a good owner , and a great quarterback and not necessarily in that order .
 
infantrycak said:
Jones had 27 starts and received top flight marks in 2014. Brooks was regarded as a top OG as well.

And you're being dishonest, acting as if Brooks was overpaid and has had his contract redone for underperforming. Straight BS. They converted base salary into bonus so it could be prorated to create cap space. He has been a rock for them and is going to the probowl.



And despite McNair's stated preference for a draft QB they went free agency. Now who has a long track record of disliking rookies?
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Reading is fundamental that's why in my post I specifically said 1 year worth of starting experience at the position, which is all he had at center at the time he left to Tennessee; his other starts came at guard. & I never said Brooks' contract was being redone for underperforming, I just stated that his contract was being redone which among other things...is an indication that he was somewhat overpaid. Sure he's been a rock for them, but up until the time he signed his contract with Philly, as Cloak pointed out, he couldn't even stay on the field. He had no pro bowl or all pro honors either; hence he had done next to nothing to earn the 41 million he would eventually get. Regardless, the original statement by ColeThorton & TKdog is that these guys amongst others on the o-line were sent packing b/c of BoB & that in and of itself is B.S. They walked away on their own via free agency & if anyone is responsible for that it is/was Rick Smith for either low balling them or not making them a priority to sign.

& most coaches don't like/trust rookies unless they have to. tell me again how BoB is any different in that regard from any other coach again?
 
Mr teX said:
I just stated that his contract was being redone which among other things...is an indication that he was somewhat overpaid.
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No it is not. It was purely cap accounting. The Texans have done it literally dozens of times. He did not receive one penny less. In fact he got his money faster (paid as a bonus before the season started instead of split up in game checks).

coaches don't like/trust rookies unless they have to. tell me again how BoB is any different in that regard from any other coach again?
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The great majority of QBs are obtained thru the draft. OB is so rookie-phobic we suffered thru Fitz, Hoyer, Mallett, et al.
 
ColeThornton said:
Well that's six, and I don't know about cleaning house, but during the same period, the teams that have hired a new head coach and have gone further* than the Texans in the time OB has already had... Tampa Bay, Philly, Carolina, Atlanta, Chicago, NY Giants, Green Bay, Arizona, New Orleans, Minnesota, San Francisco, Seattle, Arizona(again), Atlanta, Raiders, Colts, San Diego, Baltimore, Colts(again), NY Jets, Pittsburgh, Denver to name most of them.

*As defined by going further in the playoffs
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you can't be this dense. Correlation does not equal causation. Just b/c all those teams went further in the playoffs at one point in the Texans' existence doesn't mean that the coaching change(s) were the catalyst for those deep playoff runs. Some of those teams had multiple coaching changes before and after and haven't done squat. So stop being obtuse so as to back up your garbage rationale & see that the more apt reasoning for those teams making those deep playoff runs is b/c most have/had franchise qbs leading them at the time.

Philly - McNabb
Carolina - Newton
ATL - Ryan
Chicago -
Giants - Manning
Green Bay - Rodgers
Arizona - Warner
NO- Brees
Minny - Favre
SF - Kaep (signed a monstrous extension)
Seattle- Hasselbeck/Wilson
Raiders - Gannon (MVP year)
Colts - Manning/Luck
SD- Rivers
Baltimore - Flacco
NY Jets -
Pitt - Rothlisberger
Denver - P. Manning.
 
infantrycak said:
No it is not. It was purely cap accounting. The Texans have done it literally dozens of times. He did not receive one penny less. In fact he got his money faster (paid as a bonus before the season started instead of split up in game checks).



The great majority of QBs are obtained thru the draft. OB is so rookir-phobic we suffered thru Fitz, Hoyer, Mallett, et al.
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We can agree to disagree on the first point. The second point you're trying to make is purely your opinion.
 
ColeThornton said:
With McNair's money I'd be competing for Jon Gruden, with my money it would be Jon Bon Jovi. But seriously, Raider fans have got to be fired up their organization is aiming high and going after a guy who has proven he can do it...

PS "Honoring Earl 34" great moniker! I still think the Tyler Rose was the greatest professional football player in Houston history.
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Gruden offensive genius, in the NFL never made a solid mark with his offense. His defense typical carried the teams.Away from the game for ~10 years? Raiders fans should not be surprised to end up with fool's gold.
 
Mr teX said:
you can't be this dense. Correlation does not equal causation. Just b/c all those teams went further in the playoffs at one point in the Texans' existence doesn't mean that the coaching change(s) were the catalyst for those deep playoff runs. Some of those teams had multiple coaching changes before and after and haven't done squat. So stop being obtuse so as to back up your garbage rationale & see that the more apt reasoning for those teams making those deep playoff runs is b/c most have/had franchise qbs leading them at the time.

Philly - McNabb
Carolina - Newton
ATL - Ryan
Chicago -
Giants - Manning
Green Bay - Rodgers
Arizona - Warner
NO- Brees
Minny - Favre
SF - Kaep (signed a monstrous extension)
Seattle- Hasselbeck/Wilson
Raiders - Gannon (MVP year)
Colts - Manning/Luck
SD- Rivers
Baltimore - Flacco
NY Jets -
Pitt - Rothlisberger
Denver - P. Manning.
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You can't be that dense. The post was offered as a comparison to teams making changes and it "not" working, that also offered no correlation to causation. In that sense the post was appropriate as the parameters were the same with the post it was replying to. It's not my fault you didn't understand that... So stop being obtuse to other points of view as I know just as much about my opinion as you do yours.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
Gruden offensive genius, in the NFL never made a solid mark with his offense. His defense typical carried the teams.Away from the game for ~10 years? Raiders fans should not be surprised to end up with fool's gold.
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Well, I hope he comes back, I think it would be good for the league. And as I've already said, stats about the offense etc... are fine, and I know his w/l isn't that great but it's that SB championship that gets my attention. 9-7 is a whole different animal and I don't care where the offense or defense is ranked if you go deep in the playoffs. And I don't know if being away from the game is a fair critique. He has probably spent as much time in "different" locker rooms as most and spent an awful lot of time studying the game during that time and he seems to have a great rapport with the young QBs he interviews.
 
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Honoring Earl 34 said:
Bud Grant said the key to being a successful NFL coach are a good wife , a good owner , and a great quarterback and not necessarily in that order .
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Bud Grant was a great coach. That's a great quote, even though he won the NFL championship with Joe Kapp. I sure wouldn't want to make the case he was anything close to great, the Vikes had a great defense that year. Grant won that championship his third season. In O'Brien's third year he also had a great defense, they may have been right around the top in yds given up. But that quarterback whisperer thing just became a bigger and bigger joke. Maybe he needed Joe Kapp.

Of course the game is much different now than it was then. Quick turnarounds are so much more common now.
 
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nut said:
It looked like maybe the team quit on Obrien after DW went down. We really crapped the bed every game after that and he didn't ever look positive on the sideline. Maybe I'm wrong but every game stunk after that and you wonder why we didn't win any of them.
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Every game stunk, but it wasn't because the team quit... they just stunk... they stunk as hard as they could
 
ColeThornton said:
Well, I hope he comes back, I think it would be good for the league. And as I've already said, stats about the offense etc... are fine, and I know his w/l isn't that great but it's that SB championship that gets my attention. 9-7 is a whole different animal and I don't care where the offense or defense is ranked if you go deep in the playoffs. And I don't know if being away from the game is a fair critique. He has probably spent as much time in "different" locker rooms as most and spent an awful lot of time studying the game during that time and he seems to have a great rapport with the young QBs he interviews.
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But in his 4th season he lost in the wild card game, and in his 5th he went 4-12
 
Can't believe we have to waste another year with this worthless dildo. As if I have so much burning passion for this league and sport left to spare.
 
ColeThornton said:
Well, I hope he comes back, I think it would be good for the league. And as I've already said, stats about the offense etc... are fine, and I know his w/l isn't that great but it's that SB championship that gets my attention. 9-7 is a whole different animal and I don't care where the offense or defense is ranked if you go deep in the playoffs. And I don't know if being away from the game is a fair critique. He has probably spent as much time in "different" locker rooms as most and spent an awful lot of time studying the game during that time and he seems to have a great rapport with the young QBs he interviews.
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the superbowl he won with the team tony dungy built? i wont hold my breath on gruden, hopefully for his and the raiders sake carr turns it around, because gruden loves every single qb in the world and thinks they are all pro bowlers
 
JB said:
But in his 4th season he lost in the wild card game, and in his 5th he went 4-12
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In an eerie similarity to OB, Gruden burned thru QBs looking for ones 'smart enough' to run his system rather than finding those most other considered the best. His nomenclature was notoriously verbose. What other play callers would convey in 5 words took him 30. There was an on mic segment from training camp one time and the QBs (Chris Simms was one) couldn't capture and remember the play much less repeat it in the huddle.

Shishkabob said:
the superbowl he won with the team tony dungy built?
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That criticism doesn't really fly in his case since he was facing the team he built.
 
infantrycak said:
That criticism doesn't really fly in his case since he was facing the team he built.
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the team he built or BALCO built....

all kidding aside I'm just not sold on gruden just because he won a superbowl. that team immediately fell off after that, and then he retired. he has been out of coaching for what over a decade now? idk just not something I think the Texans should have gone all in on.
 
I just hope now that Obrien has Watson he will turn into a good HC. I don't think he is as bad as some make him out to be, but he's not as good as other make him out to be either. but after watching Watson play madden against the NFL for 6 weeks, in willing to let it ride for another season or 2 and see the results
 
Shishkabob said:
I just hope now that Obrien has Watson he will turn into a good HC. I don't think he is as bad as some make him out to be, but he's not as good as other make him out to be either. but after watching Watson play madden against the NFL for 6 weeks, in willing to let it ride for another season or 2 and see the results
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Also "We can cut Osweiler after 2 years, it's not a bad contract"

The years are adding up
 
TheKDog said:
Also "We can cut Osweiler after 2 years, it's not a bad contract"

The years are adding up
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who says that was Obriens call? if you want to ruin Watson change his system early and often, because that's how you run a young qb. this notion people have that Watson would make any coach look good is absurd. Obrien did a great job scheming to Watson's strengths in those games, so much so that Watson himself went through multiple networks to make it known he wanted Obrien back. let the to ride together for a couple years, obviously it worked for the first 6 games
 
Shishkabob said:
who says that was Obriens call? if you want to ruin Watson change his system early and often, because that's how you run a young qb. this notion people have that Watson would make any coach look good is absurd. Obrien did a great job scheming to Watson's strengths in those games, so much so that Watson himself went through multiple networks to make it known he wanted Obrien back. let the to ride together for a couple years, obviously it worked for the first 6 games
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I'm just saying that continually saying "it's just one more year" adds up. Eventually you are the browns
 
TheKDog said:
I'm just saying that continually saying "it's just one more year" adds up. Eventually you are the browns
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you mean the team that goes through headcoaches almost as quick as it does quarterbacks? yea I guess giving your head coach time to learn and grow in a position that's brand new to him would make you the same as an organization that's been criticized for not giving it's staff enough time
 
Shishkabob said:
you mean the team that goes through headcoaches almost as quick as it does quarterbacks? yea I guess giving your head coach time to learn and grow in a position that's brand new to him would make you the same as an organization that's been criticized for not giving it's staff enough time
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OBrien has been here 4 years and the roster is worse than ever, and his clock management and system are worse than ever.

Just because they have some good players (Watson, Clowney, Hopkins) doesn't mean they would get more time. Every team has some good players.

The team is clearly trending down.
 
Shishkabob said:
who says that was Obriens call? if you want to ruin Watson change his system early and often, because that's how you run a young qb. this notion people have that Watson would make any coach look good is absurd. Obrien did a great job scheming to Watson's strengths in those games, so much so that Watson himself went through multiple networks to make it known he wanted Obrien back. let the to ride together for a couple years, obviously it worked for the first 6 games
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That’s the way I see it. If you want to b!tch about O’Brien, you have plenty of reasons in the tank to do so. But the bottom line is that O’Brien and Watson worked very well together, and if Watson mentioned to the press that he wanted O’Brien back, then he probably mentioned it to the Texans also.

And after watching Watson perform the way he did, who am I to question what he wants.
 
Watson and OB did not work well together. OB couldn't even see what he had. So when Watson went in OB had to improvise rather than run what he wants. This is not like OB saw Watson, designed a modified O for him and the whole team practiced it in training camp. It was a hail Mary. Part of that was letting Watson play more like he did in college so of course he liked it.

Jury is out on what a deliberate pairing looks like.
 
TheKDog said:
OBrien has been here 4 years and the roster is worse than ever, and his clock management and system are worse than ever.

Just because they have some good players (Watson, Clowney, Hopkins) doesn't mean they would get more time. Every team has some good players.

The team is clearly trending down.
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Agreed, the team is trending down and has personnel issues.

The Leave of Absence tells me that the McNairs are putting the lack of talent on Ricky and not BOB. The McNair's are hoping a new GM can reverse the trend.
 
infantrycak said:
Watson and OB did not work well together. OB couldn't even see what he had. So when Watson went in OB had to improvise rather than run what he wants. This is not like OB saw Watson, designed a modified O for him and the whole team practiced it in training camp. It was a hail Mary. Part of that was letting Watson play more like he did in college so of course he liked it.

Jury is out on what a deliberate pairing looks like.
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Yea go back and look at the stats over those 6 games and tell me they didn't work well together. were you at training camp during both the open and closed portions to know that they didn't work on any of these plays with Watson, or is that just your fan speculation? it's was reported Obrien had 2 different style of offenses going in training camp to accommodate both of his qbs.

and lets just say your theory that Obrien didn't have any of this stuff in his playbook beforehand, and he just made it up on the fly. if he can develop an offense that suits Watson that well that quickly, is like to see what he could do with a hole off season of working on it
 
infantrycak said:
Watson and OB did not work well together. OB couldn't even see what he had. So when Watson went in OB had to improvise rather than run what he wants. This is not like OB saw Watson, designed a modified O for him and the whole team practiced it in training camp. It was a hail Mary. Part of that was letting Watson play more like he did in college so of course he liked it.

Jury is out on what a deliberate pairing looks like.
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If you say so it must be true.

BOB said he wanted to start Watson game #1 and was talked out of it by Ricky.

Is he lying? Maybe but I know what BOB said doesn't fit the narrative you're selling.
 
Shishkabob said:
Yea go back and look at the stats over those 6 games and tell me they didn't work well together. were you at training camp during both the open and closed portions to know that they didn't work on any of these plays with Watson, or is that just your fan speculation? it's was reported Obrien had 2 different style of offenses going in training camp to accommodate both of his qbs.

and lets just say your theory that Obrien didn't have any of this stuff in his playbook beforehand, and he just made it up on the fly. if he can develop an offense that suits Watson that well that quickly, is like to see what he could do with a hole off season of working on it
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Great post

Making up a record setting offense on the fly, yep lets fire that guy. Brilliant
 
steelbtexan said:
If you say so it must be true.

BOB said he wanted to start Watson game #1 and was talked out of it by Ricky.

Is he lying? Maybe but I know what BOB said doesn't fit the narrative you're selling.
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Holy crap, you have no shame. OB did not say that. An annonymous source claimed that after the game 1 debacle.
 
steelbtexan said:
If you say so it must be true.

BOB said he wanted to start Watson game #1 and was talked out of it by Ricky.

Is he lying? Maybe but I know what BOB said doesn't fit the narrative you're selling.
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Well the problem is he still tried the spread EP system with Watson against the Bengals and the offense was awful.

It wasn't until he incorporating play action that Watson and the offense really took off.

All the QBs have looked better with more play-action, less New England system.
 
steelbtexan said:
Agreed, the team is trending down and has personnel issues.

The Leave of Absence tells me that the McNairs are putting the lack of talent on Ricky and not BOB. The McNair's are hoping a new GM can reverse the trend.
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Maybe. Although Rick said he WILL be back. So the McNair might be giving O'Brien 1 year to fix things, otherwise Ricky is back.

I don't think there's much clear thinking from the McNair's at all.
 
infantrycak said:
Holy crap, you have no shame. OB did not say that. An annonymous source claimed that after the game 1 debacle.
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Would this source be someone from O'Brien's camp?

The same one that leaked that he didn't want Osweiler or Rahim Moore, that Rick didnt want to cut Mallet, that there was gonna be a showdown and ultimatum, etc?

Or are these different sources?

I just find it bizarre that the media runs with these stories and then they get repeated as fact.
 
TheKDog said:
Well the problem is he still tried the spread EP system with Watson against the Bengals and the offense was awful.

It wasn't until he incorporating play action that Watson and the offense really took off.

All the QBs have looked better with more play-action, less New England system.
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Atleast he was willing to change his system.
 
TheKDog said:
Maybe. Although Rick said he WILL be back. So the McNair might be giving O'Brien 1 year to fix things, otherwise Ricky is back.

I don't think there's much clear thinking from the McNair's at all.
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We will see,

What we do know is the McNair's are spending big $$$$ on a search firm to find the new GM and the McNairs haven't appeared to be the type of people who throw $$$$ away.
 
Scooter said:
Meh, I'm out. Hell I'm only here now because it's too cold to do anything other than drink, and I'm too drunk to do anything other than refresh this forum.

Edit: can anyone recommend a good forum (non NFL)? TT and Youtube are basically the only reasons I use the internet.
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As someone who is a recovered alcoholic, I recognize one when I see it and this goes to anyone else struggling with alcohol.

https://www.reddit.com/r/stopdrinking/
 
infantrycak said:
Lol - so now you know their bills.

Pssst - they've used this firm before.
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Yes they have

I think the McNair's are all about $$$$. They're not going to waste $$$$ on a GM search for an interim GM search. What in the McNair's past would make you think differently? Look at what happened in the past when they've used firms. Status quo = promoting Raye and not needing a search firm.
 
TexansBull said:
All opinion no facts. Nothing based on reality.
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I'm not talking about whether they were friendly to each other.

And it's not just opinion. It's an entire offseason without 1st team reps leading up to Savage starting. Those are facts or in the case of training camp reports any opinions were not mine.
 
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