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All encompassing Bill O'Brien thread

steelbtexan said:
We shall see,

BTW, Myers/Wade Smith/Walter ere all over the hill and needed to be let go.
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I agree ... IF replacements were ready - or at least competent. Walter's 800 yards vs Fuller's 4-500. Smith vs XSF. Myers & Jones vs Mancz & Martin. Brandon Brooks? Owen Daniels vs not even while not concussed. Andre Johnson. Just lost Brown, but your tolerance for what's allowed off the field is kinda weird. By the way mr draft all offensive line, KEEP YOUR OFFENSIVE LINE. All O'Brien had to do was draft a right tackle and build to the future, letting those aging players go at an even pace. NOPE! Cut them all, here comes the guru.
 
ColeThornton said:
So the Texans swing and miss on a great opportunity to drain the swamp but at least get rid of the biggest gator. Look for them to sky rocket back to average next year and pat each other on the back for such a quick turnaround. Expect the second year wasted for a bright new star in Deshaun Watson with the quarterback "whisperer". We'll all be sitting here again a year from now criticizing and making excuses, while the Texans keep rolling along with 17 seasons under their belt with yet another season not going any further in the playoffs.
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Nah. You doubt the power of Watson. Everyone healthy - 9 wins. Improved Oline - 10. Improved secondary - 11. Not running Lamar Miller up the middle - 16 wins.

Regardless - we should be a wild card playoff team at the minimum.
 
Scooter said:
I agree ... IF replacements were ready - or at least competent. Walter's 800 yards vs Fuller's 4-500. Smith vs XSF. Myers & Jones vs Mancz & Martin. Brandon Brooks? Owen Daniels vs not even while not concussed. Andre Johnson. Just lost Brown, but your tolerance for what's allowed off the field is kinda weird. By the way mr draft all offensive line, KEEP YOUR OFFENSIVE LINE. All O'Brien had to do was draft a right tackle and build to the future, letting those aging players go at an even pace. NOPE! Cut them all, here comes the guru.
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But those guys never played another down. Besides Jones/Brooks and who made the decision? BOB said that's Ricky's dept. Ricky has never denied this.
 
steelbtexan said:
But those guys never played another down. Besides Jones/Brooks and who made the decision? BOB said that's Ricky's dept. Ricky has never denied this.
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Jones/Brooks were Ricks players. He dropped them because ... why? It makes zero sense for Rick to drop Probowl players he brought in, the moment a new coach starts making changes to the roster.

Imagine if we had kept Myers, Jones, Brooks, Smith (who obviously would've played another down) ... does your boy Garoppolo get higher priority instead of XSF? Maybe we take a guard in the 4th round instead since we have a year to develop him behind an aging group that hides it with their cohesion, and look instead to being aggressive at the QB position.
 
Scooter said:
Jones/Brooks were Ricks players. He dropped them because ... why? It makes zero sense for Rick to drop Probowl players he brought in, the moment a new coach starts making changes to the roster.

Imagine if we had kept Myers, Jones, Brooks, Smith (who obviously would've played another down) ... does your boy Garoppolo get higher priority instead of XSF? Maybe we take a guard in the 4th round instead since we have a year to develop him behind an aging group that hides it with their cohesion, and look instead to being aggressive at the QB position.
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Truth is we don't know.

But what we do know is this org has been screwed up for a while now. Which is why I wanted everybody fired and a fresh new start.
 
Big ol shrug from me concerning buttchins extension. As long as Deshaun is healthy we are good offensively. His ability to go off script and improvise are what wins the games. O'Brien should thank Deshaun for saving his job really.

Let's hope he learns from the blatant and obvious coaching errors he made this year and actually helps the team win moving forward.

Can only hope Vrabel gets a HC job somewhere else so that the defense can improve also.
 
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steelbtexan said:
Truth is we don't know.

But what we do know is this org has been screwed up for a while now. Which is why I wanted everybody fired and a fresh new start.
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1 - We know. Rick Smith didn't start cutting his guys the moment O'Brien showed up for no reason.

2 - Full agreement. I'm quite ignorant about the goings on this year (and always ignorant about management movements, I trust yours and others' judgement), but as I said elsewhere, after quick research Pat Shurmur seems like an ideal coach for us. Knows how to build an offensive line, great tightends, and has incredible experience with pocket+mobile quarterbacks (I think we have someone like that).
 
Scooter said:
1 - We know. Rick Smith didn't start cutting his guys the moment O'Brien showed up for no reason.

2 - Full agreement. I'm quite ignorant about the goings on this year (and always ignorant about management movements, I trust yours and others' judgement), but as I said elsewhere, after quick research Pat Shurmur seems like an ideal coach for us. Knows how to build an offensive line, great tightends, and has incredible experience with pocket+mobile quarterbacks (I think we have someone like that).
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Schurmur is somebody I could get on board with. Football family, great offensive mind.

He would be near the top of my list. This yrs McVay who's also from a football family.
 
Scooter said:
1 - We know. Rick Smith didn't start cutting his guys the moment O'Brien showed up for no reason.

2 - Full agreement. I'm quite ignorant about the goings on this year (and always ignorant about management movements, I trust yours and others' judgement), but as I said elsewhere, after quick research Pat Shurmur seems like an ideal coach for us. Knows how to build an offensive line, great tightends, and has incredible experience with pocket+mobile quarterbacks (I think we have someone like that).
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Yeah we do know...declining performance in at least 1 of those o-line guys...overpayment of 2 others that lured them away and impending cap hell due to a number of reasons of which bad contracts and contract extensions by Rick to Schaub, Cush and Ed Reed were all factors. We were also getting ready to pay JJ around that time as well. Change of philosophy when BoB came along was probably the lowest reason on the totem pole as to why those guys were traded, released and/or let go....but I’m sure that doesn’t mesh with the agendas around here.

Even if we wanted to we couldn’t have kept all those o-line guys.
 
Mr teX said:
Yeah we do know...declining performance in at least 1 of those o-line guys...overpayment of 2 others that lured them away and impending cap hell due to a number of reasons of which bad contracts and contract extensions by Rick to Schaub, Cush and Ed Reed were all factors. We were also getting ready to pay JJ around that time as well. Change of philosophy when BoB came along was probably the lowest reason on the totem pole as to why those guys were traded, released and/or let go....but I’m sure that doesn’t mesh with the agendas around here.

Even if we wanted to we couldn’t have kept all those o-line guys.
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Reed was cut mid (early) season - thanks McNair for killing the 2013 season. Brown, Smith and Myers went to the Probowl in 2012 - a year removed from O'Brien's arrival - not some decline over the years. CND tells that Smith had a leg injury, but again - what idiot offensive guru disassembles his offensive line before his first draft? Based on the results, I'd rather have Smith. Brooks was probably the best of the bunch, and we had Jones who could play each interior position.

Overpayment? That's so wrong you need to sit in time out, and then go research your error. We paid Fitz 3.4m for no damn reason and (spoiler) spent FA money replacing a monster lineman with a scrub. Daniels was probably a sacrifice (I'm not quite clear on our cap situation at the time), but elsewise we were perfectly capable of keeping our front in tact until common sense dictated their removal.
 
My 2c on all this:

I don't know if BOB is a worse HC than Smith is a GM. I know that between them they're not a great combination. I expect they're a C+ and a B-, but I don't know which is which.

I think that is the dilemma McNair faced. I also think it was the dilemma he faced with RS and Kubiak. Back then he didn't know who to fire either and sided with keeping Smith.This time the coin simply came down the other way.
 
markn said:
My 2c on all this:

I don't know if BOB is a worse HC than Smith is a GM. I know that between them they're not a great combination. I expect they're a C+ and a B-, but I don't know which is which.

I think that is the dilemma McNair faced. I also think it was the dilemma he faced with RS and Kubiak. Back then he didn't know who to fire either and sided with keeping Smith.This time the coin simply came down the other way.
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If that's the dilemma, the solution is obvious: fire both.
 
We are now curb-stomping this dead horse.

MPbX6OD.jpg
 
markn said:
Thats probably what I'd have done, but seems McNair is reluctant to take that route.
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After seeing the track records of the teams that continually do these "house cleanings", I don't blame him. Buffalo, Cleveland, Tampa Bay, San Fran, Oakland, Jets. Those teams have not been very good since the Texans joined the league and have "cleaned house" the most often.
 
Scooter said:
Reed was cut mid (early) season - thanks McNair for killing the 2013 season. Brown, Smith and Myers went to the Probowl in 2012 - a year removed from O'Brien's arrival - not some decline over the years. CND tells that Smith had a leg injury, but again - what idiot offensive guru disassembles his offensive line before his first draft? Based on the results, I'd rather have Smith. Brooks was probably the best of the bunch, and we had Jones who could play each interior position.

Overpayment? That's so wrong you need to sit in time out, and then go research your error. We paid Fitz 3.4m for no damn reason and (spoiler) spent FA money replacing a monster lineman with a scrub. Daniels was probably a sacrifice (I'm not quite clear on our cap situation at the time), but elsewise we were perfectly capable of keeping our front in tact until common sense dictated their removal.
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Yeah we had this great o-line with 3 pro bowlers on it in 2012, yet the year before BoB got here only 1 of those 3 guys went, The team finished 2-14 overall and our offense was dead freaking last. The one guy who did go to the pro bowl from that o-line showed that he didn’t want to be here anymore THIS year.

In any event, the other 2 guys that left in FA in subsequent years that you’re claiming we’re shipped outta here at BoB’s behest (Brooks, jones) left on their own accord and hadn’t proven anything. And yes we’re overpaid. Hell Philly has already adjusted Brooks’ contract and Ben Jones got 18 million to go play center for Tennessee with basically 1 year of experience in the NFL at the position prior to that.
 
Mr teX said:
Yeah we had this great o-line with 3 pro bowlers on it in 2012, yet the year before BoB got here only 1 of those 3 guys went, The team finished 2-14 overall and our offense was dead freaking last. The one guy who did go to the pro bowl from that o-line showed that he didn’t want to be here anymore THIS year.

In any event, the other 2 guys that left in FA in subsequent years that you’re claiming we’re shipped outta here at BoB’s behest (Brooks, jones) left on their own accord and hadn’t proven anything. And yes we’re overpaid. Hell Philly has already adjusted Brooks’ contract and Ben Jones got 18 million to go play center for Tennessee with basically 1 year of experience in the NFL at the position prior to that.
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Ok Brooks and Jones had not proven anything, but had tons of potential OBrien didn't see.

Instead he saw more potential in Jeff Allen and Tony Bergstrom.
 
TheKDog said:
Ok Brooks and Jones had not proven anything, but had tons of potential OBrien didn't see.

Instead he saw more potential in Jeff Allen and Tony Bergstrom.
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Yeah b/c BoB was responsible for resigning those guys right? Let’s say we pay both those guys for 3 and 8 million per respectively...which is what they got In FA. That’s 12 million less we had to give a 2X DPOY that was getting ready to come off his rookie deal that had actually earned the 10-12 million he would eventually get....unless of course you’re saying we should’ve let JJ test the FA market and risk losing him...

You guys are starting to sound ridiculous.
 
Mr teX said:
Yeah b/c BoB was responsible for resigning those guys right? Let’s say we pay both those guys for 4 and 8 million per respectively...which is what they got In FA. That’s 12 million less we had to give a 2X DPOY that was getting ready to come off his rookie deal that had actually earned the 10-12 million he would eventually get....unless of course you’re saying we should’ve let JJ test the FA market and risk losing him...

You guys are starting to sound ridiculous.
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How about just not signing Osweiler
 
I'm not even sure I want to sign back in after all this time.

Good luck to Rick Smith; I have a dear family member - thankfully recovering from cancer (knock on wood.)

I had wanted either McVay or Shanahan Jr.

O'Brien has always been a "meh"; even now, I still don't know what his offensive system is... and obviously, he has no clue about the defense (neither did Kubiak).

I'm like scooter, not knowing what to do, so I've been resorting to a travel forum (for the last few years now).

I still watched every single game, knowing what in store, not to expect anything.

No matter how you love/like a number of players on the team, without a good HC, they will be climbing Mt. Everest or lumbering in mediocrity.

If you really study Belichik, he was building a good thing in Cleveland.


DocBar said:
This just adds to the intrigue.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ch-bill-obrien-says-thinks-return-2018-season
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More Meh. :))
 
Scooter said:
Congrats. Mediocre, Mediocre, Weak, Fail. All that matters is that Smith is gone though, he was the one removing talent and adding Patriot stars like Hoyer and Mallett, and Smith coached the isht out of Savage.
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Every single QB that the Texans brought in under O'Brien (to be a starter) had had experience in the EP system.
O'Brien just couldn't find a Tom Brady.

To be exact, all the QB craps were O'Brien.
His signature was all over.
There's just no way around it.

There's nothing to say Rick Smith here at this position.
(even though Smith did have his bads somewhere else.)
 
TheKDog said:
No, it's both their responsibility
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No dude, It’s literally in Ricks job description to sign FA and decide what’s too much to offer and what a player’s value is....the only person in a position to overrule him on any of these things is Bob McNair.
 
Mr teX said:
In any event, the other 2 guys that left in FA in subsequent years that you’re claiming we’re shipped outta here at BoB’s behest (Brooks, jones) left on their own accord and hadn’t proven anything. And yes we’re overpaid. Hell Philly has already adjusted Brooks’ contract and Ben Jones got 18 million to go play center for Tennessee with basically 1 year of experience in the NFL at the position prior to that.
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Jones had 27 starts and received top flight marks in 2014. Brooks was regarded as a top OG as well.

And you're being dishonest, acting as if Brooks was overpaid and has had his contract redone for underperforming. Straight BS. They converted base salary into bonus so it could be prorated to create cap space. He has been a rock for them and is going to the probowl.

76Texan said:
Like I said, Osweiler had had experiences in the EP system that O'Brien wanted to run
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And despite McNair's stated preference for a draft QB they went free agency. Now who has a long track record of disliking rookies?
 
Scooter said:
Meh, I'm out. Hell I'm only here now because it's too cold to do anything other than drink, and I'm too drunk to do anything other than refresh this forum.

Edit: can anyone recommend a good forum (non NFL)? TT and Youtube are basically the only reasons I use the internet.
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what about alcoholic anonymous?
 
@JaysonBraddock: @Mike_Zierlein @adamclanton They were considering Jimmy G at 33 & trading up into the first but OB loved "versatility to play all 5 OL positions" so took him over Jimmy. Had Savage in 4th to fall back on & was working trade for Mallett during draft. It was on OB.

@JaysonBraddock: @stanfordkp @Mike_Zierlein @adamclanton I've given info down the middle. Osweiler is on Rick & Bob.

I have no problem if you don't believe it or feel it's slighted. Just sharing what I know.
 
infantrycak said:
Jones had 27 starts and received top flight marks in 2014. Brooks was regarded as a top OG as well.

And you're being dishonest, acting as if Brooks was overpaid and has had his contract redone for underperforming. Straight BS. They converted base salary into bonus so it could be prorated to create cap space. He has been a rock for them and is going to the probowl.
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Let's put the Brooks faux pas exactly where it belongs. He was hospitalized multiple times during his last season with the Texans reported as severe gasto-intestinal problems. In fact, every game, he had to be pushed onto the field. Why? because of fear. Our medical staff never correctly diagnosed his underlying problem, focusing only on his GI problems (the secondary result of his underlying problem). The next year, after being picked up by another team, their medical staff finally successfully worked him up and found that he suffered from "severe anxiety disorder." Once he was appropriately treated with medication and behavioral therapy, he went on to become a ProBowler.
 
TheKDog said:
@JaysonBraddock: @Mike_Zierlein @adamclanton They were considering Jimmy G at 33 & trading up into the first but OB loved "versatility to play all 5 OL positions" so took him over Jimmy. Had Savage in 4th to fall back on & was working trade for Mallett during draft. It was on OB.

@JaysonBraddock: @stanfordkp @Mike_Zierlein @adamclanton I've given info down the middle. Osweiler is on Rick & Bob.

I have no problem if you don't believe it or feel it's slighted. Just sharing what I know.
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If you've followed Braddock to any extent, you would realize that he hated the O'Brien pick from the beginning, and has spared no effort to tear him down any time he's had a chance to this day. He is a classic hack that thinks he is Pro scout who knows more than anyone else about everything. If you tune him out, you will instantly become a better informed fan.
 
It looked like maybe the team quit on Obrien after DW went down. We really crapped the bed every game after that and he didn't ever look positive on the sideline. Maybe I'm wrong but every game stunk after that and you wonder why we didn't win any of them.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
If you've followed Braddock to any extent, you would realize that he hated the O'Brien pick from the beginning, and has spared no effort to tear him down any time he's had a chance to this day. He is a classic hack that thinks he is Pro scout who knows more than anyone else about everything. If you tune him out, you will instantly become a better informed fan.
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Jayson Braddock makes a lot of sense actually.
 
infantrycak said:
Jones had 27 starts and received top flight marks in 2014. Brooks was regarded as a top OG as well.

And you're being dishonest, acting as if Brooks was overpaid and has had his contract redone for underperforming. Straight BS. They converted base salary into bonus so it could be prorated to create cap space. He has been a rock for them and is going to the probowl.



And despite McNair's stated preference for a draft QB they went free agency. Now who has a long track record of disliking rookies?
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TexansBull said:
Regardless - we should be a wild card playoff team at the minimum.
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Ah yes and another quick exit from the playoffs and that will be good enough. After all, this is the Texans home of no accountability and low expectations, but hey, as long as the bar is being better than Cleveland... OB should have a long run!
 
TheKDog said:
@JaysonBraddock: @Mike_Zierlein @adamclanton They were considering Jimmy G at 33 & trading up into the first but OB loved "versatility to play all 5 OL positions" so took him over Jimmy. Had Savage in 4th to fall back on & was working trade for Mallett during draft. It was on OB.

@JaysonBraddock: @stanfordkp @Mike_Zierlein @adamclanton I've given info down the middle. Osweiler is on Rick & Bob.

I have no problem if you don't believe it or feel it's slighted. Just sharing what I know.
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Stephanie Stradley had some interesting tweets on the Texans organization.

“Because of the way things are done, Texans’ coaches are forced to have more say than they should. GM should be the smartest person in the room.”

“McNair did not have a GM to deter him from his worse impulses”

https://mobile.twitter.com/StephStradley/status/946417533116182528
 
DocBar said:
After seeing the track records of the teams that continually do these "house cleanings", I don't blame him. Buffalo, Cleveland, Tampa Bay, San Fran, Oakland, Jets. Those teams have not been very good since the Texans joined the league and have "cleaned house" the most often.
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Well that's six, and I don't know about cleaning house, but the teams who have gone further* during the Texan's history, after hiring a new coach with less time than OB... Tampa Bay, Philly, Carolina, Atlanta, Chicago, NY Giants, Green Bay, Arizona, New Orleans, Minnesota, San Francisco, Seattle, Arizona(again), Atlanta, Raiders, Colts, San Diego, Baltimore, Colts(again), NY Jets, Pittsburgh, Denver to name most of them.

*As defined by going further in the playoffs
 
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Honoring Earl 34 said:
Who would you hire ?
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With McNair's money I'd be competing for Jon Gruden, with my money it would be Jon Bon Jovi. But seriously, Raider fans have got to be fired up their organization is aiming high and going after a guy who has proven he can do it...

PS "Honoring Earl 34" great moniker! I still think the Tyler Rose was the greatest professional football player in Houston history.
 
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