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Injury Thread

TexansFight said:
Where the hell are we supposed to discuss injuries except for this thread? Are we supposed to start a separate thread for every injury?
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been some discussion of injuries and a whole lot of bs about state of the OL and even some Chris Myers jokes thrown in. And a bit of how will the team do also. Not singling anyone out but this is not what the thread was started for, as CND has stated and requested numerous times
 
TexansFight said:
Where the hell are we supposed to discuss injuries except for this thread? Are we supposed to start a separate thread for every injury?
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How about the Texans' Training Camp thread??
Or the Texans Random Thought of the Day thread???
Or how's this for a novel idea, start a "Why our O-line Will Suck thread?
You have options, TF.
 
I have a feeling we will be busy when teams cut down to their 53 man rosters. We need to find a few decent lineman somewhere.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
MODERATORS, DO YOUR JOB!
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For this moderator, there was a Duck Fallas clean up on another aisle and a customer presentation delivered in the last two hours.

Your value to the community is undeniable. However, there is nothing nefarious going on here, against policy.

With that said, how would you like us to moderate in this instance:

- delete everyone's posts in the thread, if so what is your recommended SLA, how are we defining what will be deleted and what is in line?
- lock the thread, only for your posts? If so, that will necessitate communication to open and lock

I am sure there are other options, but those two come to mind. Ideas are welcome.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Thank you, JB. I think it's the least I can expect in return for my attempts to keep this MB well-informed concerning our players' injuries. Efforts on everyone's part to evaluate which thread is most appropriate for their posts BEFORE they post are way less time-intensive than the time I put into trying to consolidate injury information in the Injury threads. I have called for this several times in the past and still this request for gesture of common courtesy has fallen on deaf ears.
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I hear you Doc and thanks for all of the time you spend keeping us informed it is greatly appreciated.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
For this moderator, there was a Duck Fallas clean up on another aisle and a customer presentation delivered in the last two hours.

Your value to the community is undeniable. However, there is nothing nefarious going on here, against policy.

With that said, how would you like us to moderate in this instance:

- delete everyone's posts in the thread, if so what is your recommended SLA, how are we defining what will be deleted and what is in line?
- lock the thread, only for your posts? If so, that will necessitate communication to open and lock

I am sure there are other options, but those two come to mind. Ideas are welcome.
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Really, use Docs post on the subject as a guide, it really isn't that hard. KEEP THIS THREAD AS A PLACE FOR INJURY NEWS AND QUESTIONS ABOUT THE INJURIES ( LENGTH OF TIME OUT, SEVERITY OF INJURY, IMPACT ON PLAY ETC...) MAKE ALL COMMENTS ABOUT HOW INJURIES AFFECT THE POTENTIAL ROSTER CHANGES/TEAM IN AN APPROPRIATE THREAD.

CND is a great contributor to this MB and his contributions/time he spends searching down answers posters have is invaluable. Everybody please do as he asks or we probably will end up losing one of the most valuable contributors to this MB.

If he leaves and I wouldn't blame him it will be because of posts like the one above.

Where are the Mods like Vinny when you need them the most?

This isn't brain surgery.
 
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Kaiser Toro said:
For this moderator, there was a Duck Fallas clean up on another aisle and a customer presentation delivered in the last two hours.

Your value to the community is undeniable. However, there is nothing nefarious going on here, against policy.

With that said, how would you like us to moderate in this instance:

- delete everyone's posts in the thread, if so what is your recommended SLA, how are we defining what will be deleted and what is in line?
- lock the thread, only for your posts? If so, that will necessitate communication to open and lock

I am sure there are other options, but those two come to mind. Ideas are welcome.
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Give Doc his own injury thread where he can post injury information. Everyone else can discuss in the appropriate thread. Doc's contribution is worth it and it would be nice to have one location to read Doc's prognosis, diagnosis and injury history, info etc.
 
Texian said:
Give Doc his own injury thread where he can post injury information. Everyone else can discuss in the appropriate thread. Doc's contribution is worth it and it would be nice to have one location to read Doc's prognosis, diagnosis and injury history, info etc.
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That's what this thread was supposed to be
 
Texian said:
That's fine but clearly it ain't working. Only Doc should have access to post and everyone else access to read. Don't know if that possible thou.
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It's possible... probably the way the injury threads should be, and questions can be asked elsewhere. Shame it has to be that way though
 
Well folks we are in peril of losing Doc's invaluable knowledge here. CnD is disgusted and frustrated that some simple courtesy can't be extended and this thread kept to its purpose.

The information he provides us is way, way beyond 'off the top of my head' XYZ. He spends a tremendous amount of time researching these injuries and even more specifically the ramifications for football players.

He is at least going to be taking a break. If/when he returns this thread will be strictly limited to:

1) injury reports
2) medical questions
3) answers by medical professionals

If you want further discussion find an existing thread or create a new one. Anything else will be deleted.
 
I am reopening this thread. We still need injury reports and we have other medical professionals like Otisbean. The 3 subjects above will be enforced.
 
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When Akeem Dent went down last night, I mentioned to the friends I was watching the game with that despite what the broadcasters were saying, it did not seem like a "stinger" would explain the way he hit nor his response afterwards.......that it was more likely that he had his bell rung. He is now in the NFL Concussion Protocol.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
When Akeem Dent went down last night, I mentioned to the friends I was watching the game with that despite what the broadcasters were saying, it did not seem like a "stinger" would explain the way he hit nor his response afterwards.......that it was more likely that he had his bell rung. He is now in the NFL Concussion Protocol.
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How does the NFL Concussion Protocol work?
 
JamTex said:
How does the NFL Concussion Protocol work?
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In brief, a player needs to complete five phases of exercise and recovery before taking the field. The phases consist of increasing levels of exertion:

I.Being symptom-free for 24 hours (essentially at total rest)

II.Performing light physical activity (e.g., walking) without re-developing symptoms for 24 hours

III.Performing sport-specific activities (e.g., running) without re-developing symptoms for 24 hours

IV.Participating in non-contact practice (e.g., sprinting, passing the ball, also weight lifting) without re-developing symptoms for 24 hours

V.Participating in full-contact practice without re-developing symptoms for 24 hours

If symptoms recur, the player must rest for 24 hours before resuming the process one step lower than when symptoms returned.
 
JamTex said:
How does the NFL Concussion Protocol work?
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That's a multi-layered question. Are you asking who determines whether a player has a concussion and what criteria do they use? What steps are required before a player can return and is there conclusive testing performed along the way or are doctors'/trainers' observations sufficient? Is there a time limit before the guy can come back?

Many layers to what seems like a straight-forward question. I'm curious to see the answer(s) that come up because I googled it, got lots of hits, but never saw a simple, 144-character answer....
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
In brief, a player needs to complete five phases of exercise and recovery before taking the field. The phases consist of increasing levels of exertion:

I.Being symptom-free for 24 hours (essentially at total rest)

II.Performing light physical activity (e.g., walking) without re-developing symptoms for 24 hours

III.Performing sport-specific activities (e.g., running) without re-developing symptoms for 24 hours

IV.Participating in non-contact practice (e.g., sprinting, passing the ball, also weight lifting) without re-developing symptoms for 24 hours

V.Participating in full-contact practice without re-developing symptoms for 24 hours

If symptoms recur, the player must rest for 24 hours before resuming the process one step lower than when symptoms returned.
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Thanks brother. That clears it up. Hopefully Dent will return soon.
 
I addressed this after Hopkins' concussion back in 2013.

This is essentially the NFL Policy of identifying and managing concussions. http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/lyris/pdfs/NFL_Diagnosis_Mgmt_Concussion.pdf


In particular, this is how a player is tested for concussion initially, and for navigating the NFL Concussion Protocol.:

There are many baseline tests given to all of the players before the season begins. One of those important tests include the IMPACT test [CLICK HERE TO SEE THE ACTUAL TEST....THE SIDELINE ASSESSMENT TOOL.]. It is the tool used to first assess potential concussions right after they are suspected. Other tests are given that test colors, shapes and memory association combinations. There are audio and visual light tests given. There are numerous computer programs that the players are presented with to test reflexes and timed cognitive responses. These are all compared to the baseline levels/scores established during these tests given before the season began. This is all above and beyond the comparative physical and psychological testing performed by the team doctors and neurologist that are performed at regular intervals (the Concussion Protocol).

The process, if followed as intended, is so complicated that it is pretty well accepted that it would be virtually impossible to fake "recovery."
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
I addressed this after Hopkins' concussion back in 2013.

This is essentially the NFL Policy of identifying and managing concussions. http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaResources/lyris/pdfs/NFL_Diagnosis_Mgmt_Concussion.pdf


In particular, this is how a player is tested for concussion initially, and for navigating the NFL Concussion Protocol.:

There are many baseline tests given to all of the players before the season begins. One of those important tests include the IMPACT test [CLICK HERE TO SEE THE ACTUAL TEST....THE SIDELINE ASSESSMENT TOOL.]. It is the tool used to first assess potential concussions right after they are suspected. Other tests are given that test colors, shapes and memory association combinations. There are audio and visual light tests given. There are numerous computer programs that the players are presented with to test reflexes and timed cognitive responses. These are all compared to the baseline levels/scores established during these tests given before the season began. This is all above and beyond the comparative physical and psychological testing performed by the team doctors and neurologist that are performed at regular intervals (the Concussion Protocol).

The process, if followed as intended, is so complicated that it is pretty well accepted that it would be virtually impossible to fake "recovery."
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Damn... it would take me longer than 30 seconds to recite the months of the year backwards
LoL
 
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CnD, how do you rate the team's treatment of Newton's hamstring injury? Did you ever see what grade it was? I have a bad gut feeling about JJ, DB and Newton. I feel the best about Newton, though.
 
DocBar said:
CnD, how do you rate the team's treatment of Newton's hamstring injury? Did you ever see what grade it was? I have a bad gut feeling about JJ, DB and Newton. I feel the best about Newton, though.
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No grade has been assigned to Newton's hamstring tear. But by the length of rehab so far, I would say it was a Grade II. Last season from the beginning to the end, he was experiencing problems from injuries to his toe, ankle and knee. Since having his 2013 patellar tendon surgery and losing that entire season, lower limb issues have shadowed him and his performance has continued to be affected. I would have reservation about saying I feel very good about Newton's outlook for 2016.

A patellar tendon surgery is an extremely serious injury in general, but it can be especially devastating to a big lineman long term. Remember, the promising Jeff Adams underwent patellar tendon surgery last September, and he has been an entirely ineffective turnstile since.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
John McClain @McClain_on_NFL
JJ Watt passed physical and is ready for practice Monday.
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What type of exercises do you expect Watt to be doing to strengthen injured areas? Sorry, if you discussed earlier. I got in argument with friend who said Watt got most recent injury last season but I thought he was re-injured this off season leading to surgical intervention instead of surgical rehab.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
John McClain @McClain_on_NFL
JJ Watt passed physical and is ready for practice Monday.
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For the ignorant masses, what exactly makes up the physical exam? I believe it was a conditioning test he past days ago that you essentially described as a lazy shuttle drill.

With all of the work done, I would be EXTREMELY uncomfortable with Watt playing at all in week 1, and seeing more than a few exploratory reps in game 2.
 
badboy said:
What type of exercises do you expect Watt to be doing to strengthen injured areas? Sorry, if you discussed earlier. I got in argument with friend who said Watt got most recent injury last season but I thought he was re-injured this off season leading to surgical intervention instead of surgical rehab.
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For an athlete like Watt, the most important type of exercises (not practical to list them all) are those that maintain flexibility and increase the strength of his large back muscles and the entire realm of abdominal core muscles. At this stage, Watt will be performing the same exercises that he has been all along, but now with incremental increases the load placed on of these muscles. Otisbean may be able to comment on this further.

As far as the chronology summary of Watt's back injury. He was dealing with a significant back issue since at least last October (most likely on a lesser scale very much longer than that). The typical epidural regimen was undoubtedly instituted along with intense muscular rehab. In the course of his rehab, he re-injured his back.........attempt at further rehab was unsuccessful leading to his microdiscectomy on July 20.
 
Scooter said:
For the ignorant masses, what exactly makes up the physical exam? I believe it was a conditioning test he past days ago that you essentially described as a lazy shuttle drill.

With all of the work done, I would be EXTREMELY uncomfortable with Watt playing at all in week 1, and seeing more than a few exploratory reps in game 2.
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When you are referring to the medical clearance from any spinal surgery, you should probably include me and the clearing physician(s) in the category of "ignorant masses." The reason? Standardized criteria for return to play after spinal surgery do not exist. Some guidelines have been published over the years, but they are typically based on anecdotal experience and not linked to solid scientific evidence. There is wide agreement though that athletes who return to contact sports after spinal surgery should be 1) asymptomatic (which of course can be highly dependent on the honesty of the player) and 2) have a stable spine with normal neurologic function and range of spinal motion, and 3) demonstrate by imaging that there is adequate space for the vertebral nerve structures. The decision to clear an athlete to return to play following spine surgery remains controversial. There is lack of consensus among experts and no strict guidelines for return to presurgery level of athletic competition. So in essence, the burden remains on the treating physician(s) to consider the risks of the athlete as to if he should return at all or when he should return, paying special heed to avoiding that the player's own zeal in any way dictates his return too soon.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
For an athlete like Watt, the most important type of exercises (not practical to list them all) are those that maintain flexibility and increase the strength of his large back muscles and the entire realm of abdominal core muscles. At this stage, Watt will be performing the same exercises that he has been all along, but now with incremental increases the load placed on of these muscles. Otisbean may be able to comment on this further.

As far as the chronology summary of Watt's back injury. He was dealing with a significant back issue since at least last October (most likely on a lesser scale very much longer than that). The typical epidural regimen was undoubtedly instituted along with intense muscular rehab. In the course of his rehab, he re-injured his back.........attempt at further rehab was unsuccessful leading to his microdiscectomy on July 20.
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The first thing to do is re establish motor control of the musculature around the spine. I had a minor knee surgery several years ago and it took me a couple weeks to be able to activate my quads properly. With regards to the spine, there is an intrinsic stabilization system consisting of deeper core muscles that needs to be developed, the diaphragm, pelvic floor muscles, the transverse abdominus, and the multifidus. These muscle provide segemental stability to the spine and help create inter abdominal pressure to provide support for the spine. If these muscles don't work properly other muscles have to help and you end up with compensation patterns which will lead to injury.

Once the muscles activate properly, you have to begin to re build their endurance. Many low back injuries occur because fatigue. If you think of the spine as a fishing pole with a bowling ball (your head) attached to it, there's no way the fishing pole can hold the bowling ball upright. However, if you take a large number of support cables (your core muscles) and run them up and down the fishing pole, you can stabilize the bowling ball with no problem. If you cut a support cable, it fails to properly support the fishing pole and it can buckle. As your core musculature fatigues, it can fail to properly support the spine and the spine can buckle. Rebuilding the endurance of the supporting muscles is really important. You would begin with isometric exercises such as planks, side bridges, bird dogs and pall of presses. Once you have a high level of endurance in stationary exercises, you can begin to work on spinal stabilization in a dynamic environment with loaded carries and unbalanced lifting (think of a standing single arm chest press utilizing a cable weight system)- again focusing on endurance over load.

After muscular endurance is re established, you can begin to rebuild strength. The exercises would be similar you would simply increase the loading. Once strength has been re-established, you can start to re-introduce power work - med ball throws and catches where the core muscles have to rapidly turn on to provide instantaneous support.

It would also be very important to make sure he has proper range of motion in his lower extremities so that he has proper movement patterns. When athletes can't move properly through the ankles and hips, they tend to compensate by flexing/bending their spine - which causes major problems


The thing I worry about, has enough time passed since his surgery to allow this process to happen? For JJs sake and for all us fans sake, I hope so. I want nothing more than to see him back to his old self again
 
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