Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
The rumor here is not Texans related. The rumor "reported" here is that two NFL teams are seeking trades for their veteran centers.
Just a FYI for those that do not like click bait.
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2016 Offensive Line thread
- Thread starter Texian
- Start date
The rumor here is not Texans related. The rumor "reported" here is that two NFL teams are seeking trades for their veteran centers.
Just a FYI for those that do not like click bait.
A 31 yr old and a 13 game vet beaten out by a rookie... just because teams are seeking a trade doesn't mean the Texans are interested
He didn't play at all in 2015 due to multiple back injuries, and had microfracture surgery on his left knee in 2013. Found this at Rotoworld
link
Seahawks waived C Patrick Lewis.
It's a mild surprise, as the Seahawks retained Lewis as a restricted free agent after he made nine starts last season. Profootballtalk reported Monday they were trying to find a trade partner, but evidently couldn't scare up a conditional day-three pick. Lewis can also play guard.
-from Rotoworld
Not sure what OL scheme Seattle runs or if he'd fit here.. But his ability to play guard sounds like what OB likes in his o-lineman
It's a mild surprise, as the Seahawks retained Lewis as a restricted free agent after he made nine starts last season. Profootballtalk reported Monday they were trying to find a trade partner, but evidently couldn't scare up a conditional day-three pick. Lewis can also play guard.
-from Rotoworld
Not sure what OL scheme Seattle runs or if he'd fit here.. But his ability to play guard sounds like what OB likes in his o-lineman
TexansFight
Veteran
Sullivan and Lewis look intriguing. I don't trust Mancz or XSF and am looking for alternatives.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Well I was ready to bury him after he missed the targets he had...
edit add on: I think a draft pick is way we have to go to get a starting tackle. As I think first round is where we would look in 2017, I would quickly give our first pick now for right guy. Age would be a consideration but getting a starter for 2016 season rather than a rookie 2017 would be huge.
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badboy
Hall of Fame
I think I get what you are saying but Newton who is expected to start game one, Jeff Allen and Clark are more experienced than Su'a-Fila. I think you are presenting a view based on what your concerns may be. If you are saying X is most experienced of the two, LG and center that are expected to start, you would be correct.
Moving D Brown to side for now, Clark looked serviceable when in game versus SF and most seem to agree Manz looked beat one play that hurt team and there was disagreement on that. IMO if Su'a-Fila plays only as well as end of 2015 and Newton returns healthy (and plays only right tackle) we will be better than last season.
At the time I posted that, I think I meant X was the most experienced of that preseason group (Clark,X,Mancz,Allen,Lamm)
Now that Newton is expected back for wk 1, he will be the most experienced, then X.
I mean experience in this system, not total games played like Clark and Allen...
But basically, it's time to put up or shut up for X. We used to try to get by with him as a weakness since he was still learning, but now it's time for him to start playing like a #33 overall pick and help mask our other weaknesses on the line instead of being the weakness.
XSF has played like the #33 overall pick since late in the 2015 season.
I agree. XSF is getting a bad rap from the past. His current play is decent. Mancz is the weak spot.
I tend to agree.. He looked like he was settling in at the end of last season, and I was reading about his improved pass-pro at the beginning of training camp, I was ready to believe he was finally ready to earn his draft spot. I was truly excited about the XSF-Martin-Allen combo inside.
But I was mostly uninspired by his preseason game play... I guess I yet again fell for John Harris training camp praise. It's a vicious cycle, I'm gonna give him more time at the beginning of the season, then if he struggles it will be oh he's playing next to Clark.. so I'll give him more time, when DB comes back, then it will be the end of the season again before he settles in and plays well. Rinse, repeat next season...
JamTex
Hall Of Fame Texans Fan!
I know that many are worried about the offensive line, but I'm not that worried. O'brien will game plan for our weaknesses as well as the other teams. However, Clark hasn't looked bad. As a matter of fact, he has solidified the LT position in place of Brown. Again. Lamm hasn't looked bad. He also has solidified the RT position behind Newton. Mancz will only get better with every rep and he hasn't been bad. He started all 3 preseason games thus far and is getting every rep as the starter now. He will improve exponentially as he gets more reps. Allen is Allen. He's just a nasty RG. No worries there. XSF hasn't been the best, but he hasn't been bad. His RT position will improve with practice reps as well. To me, it looked like the offensive line is starting to really gel with the players that we have been having to use. It will be ok. Brown and Newt will soon return. This O-line could soon be talked about as one of the best and most consistent in the NFL. The errors in blocking that I've seen have been in blitz pick ups. Those responsibilities lie in the hands of the backs. L Miller missed a wide open line backer on a straight line to Brock in the Cardinals game. He looked off balance like he misread the defensive package and went the wrong direction for the block. Not on the line. Mancz and Allen had their man blocked. Miller got whiffed by that LB. This is where the Texans need to improve in pass blocking. Making sure the backs are in the right position to pick up the blitz. That will be ironed out before the Bears game. I truly hope the Texans sit Brown and Newt out for the Bears game and give them both one more week to heal up, rehab, work out, get back in playing shape and practice for the game they will both really be needed in against KC. The line we have now will be more then good enough to destroy the Bears.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
They run a lot of zone.
I dont see this in the OL at all.
I would settle for an avg OL.
Say like the Raiders OL last yr.
JamTex
Hall Of Fame Texans Fan!
What is it that you don't see? Be specific.
JamTex
Hall Of Fame Texans Fan!
I have the first 3 games on DVR and I've seen huge improvement at each position from game to game. The step back was when Allen wasn't in there against New Orleans. But when O'brien replaced Bergy with Obushi, it got better. I still see this line as we have it now improving a great deal in the next week and a half before the home opener against the Bears. Even without Brown and Newt. Explain what you don't see.
JamTex
Hall Of Fame Texans Fan!
Blitz pick up is the weakness and I see that improving. The backs will have to be more aware of their assignments and where they are in correlation to the defense and the play called. Brock has gotten better at calling protections and making adjustments. This line will be good.
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This Oline scares me.
The one saving grace is our skill player speed is significantly improved and plays should develop much faster and Brock can get rid of the ball faster.
Let's see how they do on runs.
JamTex
Hall Of Fame Texans Fan!
Blitz pick up is the weakness and I see that improving. The backs will have to be more aware of thirr assignments and where they are in correlation to the defense and the play called. Brock has gotten better at calling protections and making adjustments. This line will be good.
Here's my thing. After watching the Cardinals game 4 times, Brock had all kinds of time to pass on most of his plays. The only 2 plays where he was hurried were because of a failure to pick up the blitz by the running back. The most notable was the sack where the LB whiffed past Miller and nailed Brock. Now this is against a formidable pass rush of the Cardinals. The O-line held up and gave Brock plenty of time. He went 11 of 13, and that could have been better if Fuller would have caught that one pass that skipped right through his hands. I still say the O-line will be fine. The Blitz pick up needs to be better and it will be.
Nobody expects you to ever be worried about anything lol
It's too early in the morning to spike the
Put down the whiskey!
Cant run the ball. I will breakdown each of the current OL.
Clark- Journeyman- avg at best, Can fill in for a few games but is a liability as a 16 game starter. There's a reason the Broncos who were having their own OL issues let Clark go for a 7th rd pick.
XSF- if he improves to avg during the REGULAR season I will be happy.
Mancz- below avg with room to improve to avg. IF and this is a big IF he can stay healthy.
Allen- Rock solid, upgrade over Brooks (I was one of Brooks biggest fans.) Best OL on the team.
Lamm- Below avg, with the ability to get better, great feet, needs to get stronger and learn protections better. Game needs to slow down and it's only the preseason. He has the ability to become Winston if he can learn the nuances of the position.
Hopefully they improve to avg as the season progresses and the Brown/Newton can get totally healthy. Good news is because of the added speed the OL doesn't have to be as good as they were in the past.
JamTex
Hall Of Fame Texans Fan!
That's just it. The speed of the weapons Brock will have at his disposal will open things up for him and allow him to get rid of the ball quickly. That helps the O-line. As far as run blocking, Lamar will create his own lanes many times much like Foster did. This will also help the O-line. When it all comes together and Brown and Newt return, it will improve allot. Mancz will be good. He has Allen on one side and XSF on the other. The Middle will be fine. With practice reps and game reps, the O-line will progress. They played pretty good at points in the preseason, they will only get better in the regular season. This will be an exciting offense to watch. Get ready for an arial show that will even rival "The Greatest Show On Turf".
I don't know that Miller whiffed on that block. Mancz blocked to his left. Allen blocked to his right. leaving a hole on the right A gap. Miller was running up on Brock's left side, as if he expected the hole to be on the left A gap.
From what I understand, the QB makes the blocking calls. Maybe there was a change & Lamar didn't hear it. Maybe Osweiler called it out wrong. Maybe Mancz or Allen went the wrong way. It's hard to tell. It looks like a communication thing to me, more than it looks like a whiff.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Jam Brock moved him over to the left. The LB delayed blitz came from the right of the center. Lamar damn near tripped over Brock. He didn't misread it. I've give credit to the LB because he went were the RB was moved from.
Now to the Oline, I agree with you. With more reps they will improve. The backups will hold down the fort until both Brown and Newton are fully recovered.
Now to the Oline, I agree with you. With more reps they will improve. The backups will hold down the fort until both Brown and Newton are fully recovered.
JamTex
Hall Of Fame Texans Fan!
The thing is, Miller went for the block and completely missed. It very well could have been a blown assignment, or missed communication, but when a LB comes in that fast and there's a back in the backfield to block, he can't miss that block.
Texansballer74
The Marine
He couldn't get to him because Brock was in his way. The LB got there that fast.
JamTex
Hall Of Fame Texans Fan!
I agree. Brock had no chance. It's still the backs responsibility to make sure the LB doesn't get there that fast. I assure you, it will be corrected so that it never happens again.
Even though it's corrected, I assure you it will happen again. Maybe not in quite the same way or thru the same gap, but don't be naive. It will happen again and probably more than once. The opponents are paid professionals also
Miller had to cross Brock to get to the LB. He's in a no win situation. Brock turned to his left, to play fake to his left. He expected Miller to be on his left. The LB was coming from Brock's right. The problem that will be corrected will be before the snap. Either Brock will direct Miller to his right, or he will have Mancz block to his right. That's the point. Blocking assignments are called out by the QB.
Those delay blitzes can be a real pain to pick up. I agree that it will happen until the Texans prove that they can pick it up. I think the Texans will burn that blitz more often than not, in the future. I bet Os was kicking himself after that sack and OB and Godsey grilled his ass in the film room.
TexansFight
Veteran
Man you are not only drinking the Kool-Aid you are mainlining it into your veins. Let me tell you what I see that concerns me:
1. Mancz's failure to pick up 2 blitzes and having the opposing DL come through the line like it was a jailbreak.
2. Mancz getting abused by Nick Fairley. How is he going to fare against other top pass rushers.
3. XSF looking weak at the point of attack several times and failing to get much of a push on run plays.
4. Duane Brown's health.
5. Bergstrom getting abused badly and looking like this year's version of Rahim Moore, otherwise known as another Rick Smith FA bust.
Other than that, everything is peachy keen.
None of that was on Mancz. If all you got was to watch it in real time & the pathetic breakdown bu Spencer Tillman I can understand why you would think so.
However if you have the ability to go back, watch it in slow motion & make up your own mind, you'll see Mancz was not manhandled by Farely & the Center doesn't call line protection or identify the Mike.
TexansFight
Veteran
Ok, I don't claim to be an OL expert. I will take you at your word. What do you think is our biggest concern on the OL
They haven't shown any proficiency in the run game.
I think the pass blocking will be adequate. We've got speed on the outside & a couple of guys who can get open quickly in the middle. Oz appears to be able to get the ball out on time.
But 3 yards or less on first or second down ain't going to cut it. Allen is a grader & that's about it.
TK isn't an OL expert either.
I never meant to imply as much. I directed him to go back to the tape & watch it again. Farley is lined up against XSF. He is engaged initially by XSF. Mancz is blocking another guy entirely. He passes that guy of to the RG & tries to pick up Farley after Farley has already gained leverage.
Then I pointed out that it is the QB who calls protection, not the Center.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Texansballer74
The Marine
I believe we will see a better running game. Coach said they really wasn't running their particular scheme in the preseason. It was just some basic running plays. Even though it would've been nice to see them execute and win at the point of attack a couple times. LOL
I would like to know what XTR/Bah think about the OL play and this play that you're referring too. I was just messing with you.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
Fears around our offensive line have been a common theme on the board so far this season.
I'm a believer that unit cohesion trumps individual talent (although a talented cohesive group is obviously better).
If we can keep the majority of players together for the majority of the year I think we'll have a 'good enough' like by the end of the year.
In that light my concerns is transitioning Newton and Brown back into the lineup.
I'm a believer that unit cohesion trumps individual talent (although a talented cohesive group is obviously better).
If we can keep the majority of players together for the majority of the year I think we'll have a 'good enough' like by the end of the year.
In that light my concerns is transitioning Newton and Brown back into the lineup.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I am not overly concerned about cohesiveness as the Oline was shuffled last season and we did all right. Preseason look has been better than I anticipated and Newton should make it better. Hard to believe I said that but it is my opinion. Bears is a game I like that should give Brown more time to heal and for Newton to snap in. Hopefully Os will make TEs and Oline look much better.
Your putting alot of faith in a guy who hasn't practiced hardly at all this preseason and coming off injury. I remember a couple years ago you and I were about the only ones defending Newton when injuries had been affecting his play for a few seasons. When healthy I think he can be quite good at RT, but the guy can't stay healthy, and I'm fearful of his performance against an OLB that's practiced and ready for the season. Both OT positions make me nervous right now and I really hope O'Brien uses a TE to help on either end of the line as needed.