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2016 Offensive Line thread

Your putting alot of faith in a guy who hasn't practiced hardly at all this preseason and coming off injury. I remember a couple years ago you and I were about the only ones defending Newton when injuries had been affecting his play for a few seasons. When healthy I think he can be quite good at RT, but the guy can't stay healthy, and I'm fearful of his performance against an OLB that's practiced and ready for the season. Both OT positions make me nervous right now and I really hope O'Brien uses a TE to help on either end of the line as needed.
I do understand Wolf but a 80% Newton should be better than Lamm. More importantly, I think Jeff Allen will help Newton inside and Prosch should be assigned to pick up anyone getting past the OLine. I do think Fiedo gets more snaps in protection this season.

Halfbacks Miller and Blue should be able to block enough to slow any LBs; isn't that why Blue made team? :thinking:
 
I am not overly concerned about cohesiveness as the Oline was shuffled last season and we did all right.

I think we'll have success against the bottom feeders and average teams because of improved qb play, rb play, and downfield playmakers/threats. However, i think our line should be a concern versus quality defenses. I think our line would be exposed as a major flaw.

Fortunately, brown and Newton should be back in form by the time the playoffs get here.

To summarize, our line against a legit defense right now does scare me ,but we'll be fielding a different version when it's do or die.
 
I am not overly concerned about cohesiveness as the Oline was shuffled last season and we did all right. Preseason look has been better than I anticipated and Newton should make it better. Hard to believe I said that but it is my opinion. Bears is a game I like that should give Brown more time to heal and for Newton to snap in. Hopefully Os will make TEs and Oline look much better.

bb, the Texans "shuffled" the O-line in the first 5 or 6 games last year due to injuries and XSF not being ready, and that's when the team was not playing very well. Of course they were also shuffling QB's (Hoyer/Mallett) at the same time which didn't help matters. But, it wasn't until XSF got settled in at LG and they were able to go with the normal starters (Brown, XSF, Jones, Brooks, Newton) in the last 9 or 10 games that the Offense started to play a lot better. And of course, by that time "Malletthead" had been cut and Hoyer was the regular starter for most of those games.

I hate to say this, but they may go through some rough patches again this year with Brown out for who knows how long and Newton coming off injuries and missing the Preseason, not to mention UDFA Mencz starting a Center and FA Allen starting at RG. I'm hoping Newton is a 100%, can play the full game, and isn't too rusty. That would be great if he can do that. I'm also hoping it doesn't take too long for Mancz to get good. He was on IR most of last season so this is almost like his Rookie year and he will have a lot on his plate. Allen shouldn't take too long to get acclimated since he's been playing for 4 years and a starter in the league. The O-line will have to get in sync pretty fast because the first 7 games look like the toughest part of the schedule to me. So, I can see them taking a few lumps early and then when Brown is back and settled in they can start gelling as a unit. Not sure how long that will be but I hope it's soon.
 
When you look at what Belichick has done this year to plug his holes it's night and day with how O'Brien/Smith have managed their roster. Geez I think Belichick has signed 4 1st rounders to replace his lost/injured players.

The Oline was going to be pretty bad before this happened. Weakest part of the team. Prepare for it fellas.

The Texans brain trust knew Ben Jones was going to be FA this year and really made no effort to resign him for whatever reason (salary cap didn't allow) The time to plan for Jones departure was 2015 at the latest. There is no way they should have been caught off guard. If they were shame on them. Here is the rub, they ended up drafting a Center higher than they probably should have to fix the problem. Regardless Martin is still a rookie and 99% of the time rookies who start end up playing like rookies. It usually tales a rookie a year or two to learn the ropes and know what they have to do (see Duane Brown).

I bump this thread because......it is time and it is appropriate.
 
Look at the Pats OL as an example of what the Texans need to be.

Solder 1st rd pick Mason 4th rd pick Andrews UDFA Thuney 3rd rd rookie pick. Cannon 5th rd pick coming off of cancer.

Texans

Clark 7th rd pick (Replacing Brown sux) XSF Sux 2nd rd pick Mancz UDFA Sux Allen FA overpaid Newton 7th Rd pick. (Worst kind of sux because he only gets in shape and plays well in contract yrs.)

That's where this game was won. Sad isn't it. Wonder why the OL is sad isn't it.
 
I still think it's premature. We'll be running the ball soon enough.

Not with the OL that I just listed and they're the best the Texans have. I shudder to think about the lack of depth on the OL. Looks like they put there eggs in the wrong OL basket. (Brown/Martin injured, XSF/Allen/Newton bad FA signings and draft picks. This could be as good as the OL gets.
 
Not with the OL that I just listed and they're the best the Texans have. I shudder to think about the lack of depth on the OL. Looks like they put there eggs in the wrong OL basket. (Brown/Martin injured, XSF/Allen/Newton bad FA signings and draft picks. This could be as good as the OL gets.

Ya know, people keep saying our ol needs time to gel. Brown will be back. Mancz is young and will get better. Newton may be dealing with nagging injuries. Yada yada yada. Here's the problem with that sentiment: how many defensive fronts can say the same thing? They'll get better to. This ol is what it is. Average at best. We have a shortage of athleticism, brawlers, and teamwork on the ol.

Just like we retooled our skill positions this offseason, this ol needs to be overhauled next offseason. A grade A te wouldn't hurt either. A te should've feasted on the cover 2 we faced last night.

We're not a super bowl contender. We're a playoff contender.
 
Just watched game versus PATS again minus first five minutes of first quarter until the end of third. I felt the Oline did much better than many of you are saying. PLEASE read this carefully before commenting; looking for plays where our LT, LG, C, RG or RT flubbed a play that lead to a negative impact on the play during time I watched, I saw Newton once let opponent blow past on inside to hurry QB. I am not saying the line did their best either as a unit or individually but they did not cause a sack. TE Fiedorowicz should be benched immediately as in most games he could not block, had a penalty that impacted the series & looked totally incompetent. As posted before, I really missed on this guy being of NFL quality.

I thought the game was not out of control until late in third quarter when offense returned to field after 44 minutes (actual time per announcer) on sidelines. Read that again..44 minutes off the field..that does not sound like top defense to me. In first quarter I saw Watt twice bent like limp stick of celery in ways that CloaknnnDagger warned about in his injury thread. In at least two other plays Watt was pushed to ground & Olineman flopped on him. Twice Watt was pulled to ground no flag. Wilfork of all people seemed to do quite well the entire game. KJ and Joseph as in most games had plays that made you yell in frustration as they made poor tackles, slipped, fell down or were way off their opponent. Yet again, as in most games, both made defensive plays that made me want to adopt them and call them son.

Osweiler was basically a wash; average player that got himself in trouble and looked not to know what he was doing. Maybe I am just guessing but it looked like the game plan for offense was to hope the defense kept team in game & Texans would somehow win or at least not get blown out. It takes your punter to tell head coach to red flag a fumble when player was down? I read that again & it still pisses me OFF!

I had this game as an L before season just not how it became an L. O'Brien was schooled by the master. Crennel..not sure what to say so I will not. 10 days to put a whump on Titans.

Can we not give up 3 first down to opponent by penalty? Can we do better than 6/15 on 3rd down? Look at this: http://www.espn.com/nfl/matchup?gameId=400874551
 
BB, the defense took away the deep ball and gave us the run game. We couldn't capitalize. Our line WAS beat.
 
BB, the defense took away the deep ball and gave us the run game. We couldn't capitalize. Our line WAS beat.
disagree; we gave up deep ball due to Osweiler's inaccuracy. He was throwing outside and above our WRs and TEs and those that Hopkins caught were due to his amazing ability as QB could not drop it in closer. The only real solid pass was to Miller who let it bounce off his body. Sure there were plays that DBs were beating our guys but too many of Osweiler hoping his targets could bring it in. On most plays he had time to chunk it but seemed lost as to where to throw it. We have yet to use Miller or Ervin as targets out of backfield that many of us voiced pre regular season. Last week Grimes had one target for eight and was not thrown at again. Where is this massive multi-target passing attack we thought we were getting?
 
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Look at the Pats OL as an example of what the Texans need to be.

Solder 1st rd pick Mason 4th rd pick Andrews UDFA Thuney 3rd rd rookie pick. Cannon 5th rd pick coming off of cancer.

Texans

Clark 7th rd pick (Replacing Brown sux) XSF Sux 2nd rd pick Mancz UDFA Sux Allen FA overpaid Newton 7th Rd pick. (Worst kind of sux because he only gets in shape and plays well in contract yrs.)

That's where this game was won. Sad isn't it. Wonder why the OL is sad isn't it.


the problem this year is OUr starters is pretty much who we got we have NO depth on the Oline ....
 
I was not watching to close did we have a Extra linemen in there or CJ or our FB in there on running plays u know jumbo package ... 2 TE FB RB

if they were daring us to run it I would of ran it 90 times and Zero passes only fake run/passes to the TE or FB LOL

it seemed like we couldn't run power and prob just should of switched to a stretch Zone running
 
disagree; we gave up deep ball due to Osweiler's inaccuracy. He was throwing outside and above our WRs and TEs and those that Hopkins caught were due to his amazing ability as QB could not drop it in closer. The only real solid pass was to Miller who let it bounce off his body. Sure there were plays that DBs were beating our guys but too many of Osweiler hoping his targets could bring it in. On most plays he had time to chunk it but seemed lost as to where to throw it. We have yet to use Miller or Ervin as targets out of backfield that many of us voiced pre regular season. Last week Grimes had one target for eight and was not thrown at again. Where is this massive multi-target passing attack we thought we were getting?
This sounds like you're saying Osweiler wasn't up to the bright lights and our play-calling sucked.
Am I reading you correctly?
 
I still think this team will get better as the year goes on. Our defense is pretty much what it is, but our offense is still feeling themselves out. They'll get better.
 
I still think it's premature. We'll be running the ball soon enough.
You have more faith than some of us do regarding the quality of our O-line.
Until we make some moves and/or get some folks fully healthy I don't see improvement coming.
 
They went cheap and let Brandon Brooks and Ben Jones go. Replaced them with cheaper Jeff Allen and Bergstrom.

It's showing so far.

They used some of the money saved to get Lamar Miller, who can't seem to find holes in this line.
 
Too many times I'm seeing an OL on the ground and blocking the running lanes. They are not getting any push. In fact, many times you will even see one of them laying on Miller after he's tackled.

This has to be the weakest run blocking line we've had in years.
 
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I noticed on several occasions Allen ended up on his back in the backfield on pass plays. Our interior linemen aren't giving Oz a pocket to step up into. The tackles are doing OK, but the qb should be able to step up and use his height. Both guards and center are doing a horrible job of pass and run blocking.

Smith runs like he couldn't find a hole in a brothel.
 
Jeff Allen has been a disappointment so far. I wonder if his calf injury is contributing to this? He was a stud with the chiefs last yr. Or maybe Devlin isn't all he's cracked up to be.
 
Jeff Allen has been a disappointment so far. I wonder if his calf injury is contributing to this? He was a stud with the chiefs last yr. Or maybe Devlin isn't all he's cracked up to be.

It's really hard to say... for me anyway. We started training camp where none of the five ever worked with each other. Martin got hurt, then they swapped him out. Then Newton "gets better" & they throw him in.

I mean I look at them individually, just to see if I can see the talent needed to play the position, feet, strength, does he play low, high... does he sit there & let the other guy punch him... agility.

He looks like a player to me. I'm not seeing all pro or anything like that. I see a lot of lack of communication issues. I don't see a lot of reaching for the second level, or pulling. To me, looks like our OL is given a very simple "plan" to execute. Nothing that's going to help a RB break a big run. As the RB is having to deal with LBs at the second level.

We're not going to see any "big" runs until our linemen are helping on the second level.

They're being asked to move the LOS, & like Bill O'Brien says, they're moving the LOS. But that's only good for a couple three yards or so.
 
This sounds like you're saying Osweiler wasn't up to the bright lights and our play-calling sucked.
Am I reading you correctly?
No..but I can see how you got that. Os did not look dazed, panicked or overwhelmed by the stage that is the PATs house. I think it was mostly being in his third game in this system. I am saying play calling was the issue. I am not a conservative type in reference to offensive scheme. If we are five minutes left 4th quarter and ahead by ten points, that might change depending on the opponent. IMO, O'Brien's game plan was hang on to ball, long marches down field with short to intermediate passes to Hopkins and TEs. That is a good plan but not against New England. Stat wise we matched up very well and until about halfway through third quarter score was 13-0. During halftime I think coaches thought they were still in a match. Texans hope they can win. Patriots know they can win.

We still don't have what we expected from our running game. Miller is looking like 2015 Alfred Blue. Some is on oline but watching Miller, it seems it is on him.
 
No..but I can see how you got that. Os did not look dazed, panicked or overwhelmed by the stage that is the PATs house. I think it was mostly being in his third game in this system. I am saying play calling was the issue. I am not a conservative type in reference to offensive scheme. If we are five minutes left 4th quarter and ahead by ten points, that might change depending on the opponent. IMO, O'Brien's game plan was hang on to ball, long marches down field with short to intermediate passes to Hopkins and TEs. That is a good plan but not against New England. Stat wise we matched up very well and until about halfway through third quarter score was 13-0. During halftime I think coaches thought they were still in a match. Texans hope they can win. Patriots know they can win.

We still don't have what we expected from our running game. Miller is looking like 2015 Alfred Blue. Some is on oline but watching Miller, it seems it is on him.
Where's he supposed to run? Most of the time he gets the ball and two steps hes running into a pile of OL men. The OC isn't doin a good job of designing plays that best utilize these players talents. Miller won't last much longer if we keep using him like a power back.
 
Where's he supposed to run? Most of the time he gets the ball and two steps hes running into a pile of OL men. The OC isn't doin a good job of designing plays that best utilize these players talents. Miller won't last much longer if we keep using him like a power back.
He often runs towards edge but cuts back inside and neutralizes his speed. He is not Foster when he does that. I agree he should not be used as a power back in most scenarios. I think Prosch should used more inside. I am hopeful we are seeing Miller's carries coming down but he needs to increase his average and someone needs to step up and claim the other 10-15 carries. I was hoping for Grimes but he did not do so well versus PATS
 
He often runs towards edge but cuts back inside and neutralizes his speed.


Even when he catches the ball out of the backfield. Look at this video, around the :50 second mark. He catches the ball & looks like he can pick up a good clip if he runs towards the sideline, at an angle. But he decides to cut it up right into two defenders.

I think if he were to try to beat that one guy to the sideline, he would have been able to cut it upfield for a big gain.
 
Even when he catches the ball out of the backfield. Look at this video, around the :50 second mark. He catches the ball & looks like he can pick up a good clip if he runs towards the sideline, at an angle. But he decides to cut it up right into two defenders.

I think if he were to try to beat that one guy to the sideline, he would have been able to cut it upfield for a big gain.
I am thinking miller has convinced himself that he is an all around back which he may be but I have not seen it. Not saying he cannot be and he can sometimes run between the tackles; it just does not appear he is regularly successful at it. He has the $ hope he decides to focus on what he does best and as importantly coaches allow it
 
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I am thinking miller has convinced himself that he is an all around back which he may be but I have not seen it. Not saying he cannot be and he can sometimes run between the tackles; it just does not appear he is regularly successful at it. He has the $ hope he decides to focus on what he does best and as importantly coaches allow it

Miller reminds me of your run of the mill average and ordinary scatback. I think the Texans became enamored with him and signed him after he torched them and lit them up the year before. He's another piece that goes with O'Brien's speed puzzle.
 
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To me the biggest issue is the line more so then miller. I think we got spoiled over the years by AF's incredible field vision. Miller's just doesn't compare. Maybe he's average i don't know -but he's not AF.
 
Miller reminds me of your run of the mill average and ordinary scatback. I think the Texans became enamored with him and signed him after he torched them and let them up the year before. He's another piece that goes with O'Brien's speed puzzle.

I think a football guy convinced O'Brien that he needed speed on the offense. We went out & got a lot of speed.

Now O'b is trying to square peg the crap out of them.
 
To me the biggest issue is the line more so then miller. I think we got spoiled over the years by AF's incredible field vision. Miller's just doesn't compare. Maybe he's average i don't know -but he's not AF.

I think running from the pistol is really hurting Miller... he doesn't show the quickness from there that he showed last year
 
To me the biggest issue is the line more so then miller. I think we got spoiled over the years by AF's incredible field vision. Miller's just doesn't compare. Maybe he's average i don't know -but he's not AF.
Going to disagree Powda but agree with Texian. IMO a scat doesn't need much from his blockers due to his excellent speed; just a quick pop or slow the defender down a second. Miller qualifies for this. Of course the Oline we all hope to see (prob after the bye at earliest) could allow him to be more than a scat.
Miller reminds me of your run of the mill average and ordinary scatback. I think the Texans became enamored with him and signed him after he torched them and let them up the year before. He's another piece that goes with O'Brien's speed puzzle.
I think you nailed it. He could still be real deal but game plan has to be for his strengths not what Miller thinks his strengths are.
 
I think a football guy convinced O'Brien that he needed speed on the offense. We went out & got a lot of speed.

Now O'b is trying to square peg the crap out of them.
I love speed but a large HP motor does not always mean that boat wins races. Driver, style of boat and mechanic does the trick. I am completely puzzled by Thursday's game plan
 
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They went cheap and let Brandon Brooks and Ben Jones go. Replaced them with cheaper Jeff Allen and Bergstrom.

It's showing so far.

They used some of the money saved to get Lamar Miller, who can't seem to find holes in this line.


It's really hard to say... for me anyway. We started training camp where none of the five ever worked with each other. Martin got hurt, then they swapped him out. Then Newton "gets better" & they throw him in.

I mean I look at them individually, just to see if I can see the talent needed to play the position, feet, strength, does he play low, high... does he sit there & let the other guy punch him... agility.

He looks like a player to me. I'm not seeing all pro or anything like that. I see a lot of lack of communication issues. I don't see a lot of reaching for the second level, or pulling. To me, looks like our OL is given a very simple "plan" to execute. Nothing that's going to help a RB break a big run. As the RB is having to deal with LBs at the second level.

We're not going to see any "big" runs until our linemen are helping on the second level.

They're being asked to move the LOS, & like Bill O'Brien says, they're moving the LOS. But that's only good for a couple three yards or so.


To me the biggest issue is the line more so then miller. I think we got spoiled over the years by AF's incredible field vision. Miller's just doesn't compare. Maybe he's average i don't know -but he's not AF.

The Texans once had the best line in the NFL, then they decided to cut Briesel and Winston loose. It didn't turn out well. I'm wondering when an O-line coach is going to walk into Smith's office and tell him that he can coach the line if we can't keep folks together long enough to gel. This line is a work in progress even when they're all healthy.

And sure, Foster could still take advantage of it at times with great acceleration and vision.
 
I love speed but a large HP motor does not always mean that boat wins races. Driver, style of boat and mechanic does the trick. I am completely puzzled by Thursday's game plan

I understand... but if we're thinking we're installing a version of New England's offense, where's New England's speed? Why don't our running back look like New England's running back? Why did O'Brien keep Alfred Blue?
 
I understand... but if we're thinking we're installing a version of New England's offense, where's New England's speed? Why don't our running back look like New England's running back? Why did O'Brien keep Alfred Blue?
great questions but I think we will like Miller as season goes on. I wished we would define our team, get the players to fit the definition, coach it and not chase other guys' girl friend. We got the first two and should get the coaching soon so the last will occur.
 
Miller reminds me of your run of the mill average and ordinary scatback. I think the Texans became enamored with him and signed him after he torched them and let them up the year before. He's another piece that goes with O'Brien's speed puzzle.

That's the same reason they signed Polk too. B'Ob was marveling at his performance against him in a previous game.

Not the best way to do scouting IMO.
 
I think you nailed it. He could still be real deal but game plan has to be for his strengths not what Miller thinks his strengths are.

Miller doesn't show the patience to be a ZBS RB, he's a get it and go RB, more so to the outside and NOT between the tackles. Not only is the OL not opening holes there is also no timing or efficiency in the running game which is attributed to poor coaching not just poor line play.
 
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Going to disagree Powda but agree with Texian. IMO a scat doesn't need much from his blockers due to his excellent speed; just a quick pop or slow the defender down a second. Miller qualifies for this.

Maybe im caught up in 20-30 year tradition ,but i have a hard time calling a 220 lb guy a scat back.
 
So where do you begin to fix it? Assuming Duane Brown has a few years left on him, Sua'Filo isn't a total washout and they intend to keep working on that project, and Martin comes back next year ready to take over the center position then are we talking about the RG/RT positions needing to be changed out first or does the left side still need upgrades too.

My thoughts are that you try to add one starter through the draft and one through free agency if possible and that's about as fast as I make changes to my OL unless it's an outright emergency. Try to get a new RT next year in the draft and then sign the best FA guard I can assuming he's worth it and not just an average player capitalizing on a year when there isn't much available in free agency.
 
So where do you begin to fix it? Assuming Duane Brown has a few years left on him, Sua'Filo isn't a total washout and they intend to keep working on that project, and Martin comes back next year ready to take over the center position then are we talking about the RG/RT positions needing to be changed out first or does the left side still need upgrades too.

My thoughts are that you try to add one starter through the draft and one through free agency if possible and that's about as fast as I make changes to my OL unless it's an outright emergency. Try to get a new RT next year in the draft and then sign the best FA guard I can assuming he's worth it and not just an average player capitalizing on a year when there isn't much available in free agency.

I still think it's too early to give up on our OL.

You have to consider your assessment of Nick Martin & the effect his injury would have on his ability to return to full play.

I don't know if XSF will ever be an All-Pro, but he looks every bit a "starter" to me & Jeff Allen, we just got him. At this time, I'd have to think they'll be our starting guards next season as well.

But the tackles... Sure, Duane will be back soon enough. But he's getting up there in years. If we're looking out to next year, yes... tackle is very high on my list. I'd like to bring in a highly rated prospect to play the LT position. If he beats out Duane, we kick Brown to the right side. If not, he plays RT.

Still... I expect the OL to get better. They probably won't look too good against the Titans or the Vikings. The Colts game should give us an idea of how they're progressing.
 
Miller doesn't show the patience to be a ZBS RB, he's a get it and go RB, more so to the outside and NOT between the tackles. Not only is the OL not opening holes there is also no timing or efficiency in the running game which is attributed to poor coaching not just poor line play.
When he gets it to go, he is going from the shotgun formation which causes him to run several yards just to get to line of scrimmage.
 
When he gets it to go, he is going from the shotgun formation which causes him to run several yards just to get to line of scrimmage.
How is that different than being in the single back or I-formation? The RB starts 7-9 yds deep in all those formations.

Not defending Miller, I just don't see the diff regarding how far the RB is from the LoS is in either case
 
When he gets it to go, he is going from the shotgun formation which causes him to run several yards just to get to line of scrimmage.
Sometimes that can be a timing mechanism by design. Watching an Alex Gibbs' ZBS running game was almost like going to see a dance recital. The QB on his 2nd step would hand the ball to the RB on his 3rd step and the RB would take an additional step and cut to where the hole is designed to be. A real thing of beauty to watch. Alex Gibbs is the Bill Belichick of the NFL running game.
 
How is that different than being in the single back or I-formation? The RB starts 7-9 yds deep in all those formations.

Not defending Miller, I just don't see the diff regarding how far the RB is from the LoS is in either case

When in the I or single back with the qb under center, the rb starts when the ball is snapped so has a chance to take a couple steps and build some momentum, in the pistol, he waits for the qb to get the ball and turn and hand it to him before his first step
 
Where are we at the moment in regards to having a Zone blocking vs Power blocking philosophy/personnel.

I don't recall seeing much of the zone type blocking where the line flows and the back 'chooses' his lane. I feel Miller might be better suited to that type of run and feel like our line might do a better job with working to a scheme rather than needing to 'win' blocks.
 
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