I'm hearing the same kinda stuff about Bergstrom others are about how poorly he's been performing in the Texans TC. Most guys (local media) are saying the Texans are just hoping & praying somebody, anybody will be released by another team who can help them as a reserve at C/G.
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
2016 Offensive Line thread
- Thread starter Texian
- Start date
Texian
Hall of Fame
The Texans brain trust knew Ben Jones was going to be FA this year and really made no effort to resign him for whatever reason (salary cap didn't allow) The time to plan for Jones departure was 2015 at the latest. There is no way they should have been caught off guard. If they were shame on them. Here is the rub, they ended up drafting a Center higher than they probably should have to fix the problem. Regardless Martin is still a rookie and 99% of the time rookies who start end up playing like rookies. It usually tales a rookie a year or two to learn the ropes and know what they have to do (see Duane Brown).
What's playing like a rookie mean? Lmao come on man. Everybody makes mistakes. You're trying to base your prediction on a rookie center off of what? See Duane brown? Like OT and centers have the same assignments. See Jason long and... What other center? Your points are so invalid sometimes it's laughable.. Guy you know if we drafted a tackled in the third round we would have prepared for this 5th week injury. It usually takes a year or two to learn the ropes? What about for coaches that you harped on?
Texansballer74
The Marine
Didn't the Colts draft a center with a high pick. Some years back I think Dallas did too. So I don't see anything wrong with the Texans drafting one in the 2nd round. One thing about football, every player is a gamble. You can not predict these type of injuries. Now you can best believe we will shopping for his replacement once teams start cutting players.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Some folks see and understand the poor management and planning and some folks don't.
I'm not exactly sure how that fits with Ben Jones becoming a free agent.
Texansballer74
The Marine
You clearly said (Here is the rub, theyended up drafting a Center higher than they probably should have to fix the problem. )
So I gave you two examples of teams drafting a Center to start for their teams. Are you not keeping up with your own stance around here.
Mancz will get better as the season goes on.
Expect Ben Jones level of center play after 8-10 games
Dunning and Kruger in full effect here.
While I'm not always a fan of Smith, I find it hard to fault him for not resigning Jones as he was very average. IMO, i don't think it was a cap issue at, more of we can find a better player for the money issue. They did sign Mancz in 2015, and PFF thought very highly of him:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/10-offensive-udfas-to-like/
So I don't think it's fair to say that the Texans were caught off guard.
Martin was considered a top interior lineman prospect, that was drafted in the range where he was expected to be taken so I'm confused by the "drafted higher than they should have" comment. I also think it's wrong to assume he would struggle as a rookie. If you check PFFs 2014 offensive rookies of the year, you'll see 2 interior linemen in the top 5
https://www.profootballfocus.com/2014-pff-offensive-rookie-of-the-year/
I think the interior OL is an easier adjustment for rookies to make then OT, as T are typically going against better pass rushers
Not that I've read this thread, but this will make 2 out of the last 3 seasons that Martin has missed due to injury. I loved the pick at the time but Doc warned us about his injury history.
Delete
Last edited:
Texansballer74
The Marine
I just looked that up. The Texans always drafted players with a history of injuries. I guess they truly believe in their medical team.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Fair enough, best argument I have read. I agree that Jones was not a high priority. I don't agree with signing a UDFA to replace a starter. If Texans were that sold on Mancz why did they draft Martin in RD 2? I agree with your comments about it being easier for interior OL, that's because they don't have to play in space and it's less mental.
I'm guessing that they like Mancz but were worried about the injury history. Martin has his own injury history as well. Maybe between the 2 of them, we'll have a high level starting center over the next 8-10 years lol. I think a positive with both of them is the ability to play guard as well. BOB is big on versatility
I understand your stance in drafting linemen to play right away. The Texans hadn't made a habit of it. They drafted XSF, but started Jones while X developed.
Chances are they planned to draft a center, but signed Bergstrum to compete with Mancz until the rook was ready. May have been coach speak, but it seems O'b was prepared to start Martin, that decision was made in camp.
For all we know Mancz/Bergstrum was probably plan A before they got Martin in pads.
Number19
Hall of Fame
The perception of Mancz being manhandled shows up well in the photo. Mancz already has his full attention on Farley, with his feet well anchored. He may have been "standing in front of a freight train" but, still, in this situation you don't expect the blocker to be completely run over, as Mancz was. But this was only one play. Overall, Mancz has had a good camp. As Doc and I have been pointing out, Mancz has to show he can stay on the field, health wise. So far, it's looking good. But if he gets hurt, Bergstrom is not looking good.I posted my take on this in another thread:
I didn't remember thinking Mancz was manhandled on that play, so... I just watched it again & my memory was right. XSF got beat by Farley. Mancz & Bregstrum doubled the NT. Farley lined up as the 3 tech on the strong side. XSF initially has him blocked, but Farley's hands are so quick & strong, a swim move to the inside & Mancz is standing in front of a freight train. Only so much you could do at that point.
Texansballer74
The Marine
They were not that sold on Mancz or Jones. Thus the reason why the drafted Martin. They also brought Bergstrom in to compete.
Every team bring in those type of players to compete for a roster spot and/or starting/backup role.
Texian
Hall of Fame
We will have to disagree I think Texans realized they didn't have cap space needed to keep Jones (much like Denver and OS) so they went thru FA and draft for a replacement.
Brandon420tx
Flounder
I havent read the last 2 or so pages in the thread, so my comment may be off the rails of the current discussion but in reply to Texians most recent post.
I think Ben Jones did better as a guard than a center, I would have liked the Texans to keep him but not as the starting center, but as LG and backup Center. I think Jones and his agent felt he would do well in the FA market and the Texans didn't want to make that financial commitment to him.
Also I've been slightly panicking about the Oline since the start of Training Camp, so I was wondering if we've decided what the appropriate amount of panic should be at this time is, or if we are going to be adding a poll to set those parameters.
I think Ben Jones did better as a guard than a center, I would have liked the Texans to keep him but not as the starting center, but as LG and backup Center. I think Jones and his agent felt he would do well in the FA market and the Texans didn't want to make that financial commitment to him.
Also I've been slightly panicking about the Oline since the start of Training Camp, so I was wondering if we've decided what the appropriate amount of panic should be at this time is, or if we are going to be adding a poll to set those parameters.
Honestly, I'm more interested in seeing some consistency from XSF, moreso than Mancz even.
Look we know Mancz will be a concern, but he's at least had a year in the system with knowledge of the playbook. Martin, who's loss is still huge, is still just a rookie who we were going to accept the growing pains with anyway. I almost look at it like the extra year experience helps offset the talent difference from Martin to Mancz and we'll still take the rookie lumps either way.
Now XSF on the other hand is suddenly our most experienced starter on this line group. Time for him to step up and finally become what we expected and be an actual strength of the OL, and stop being the weak link.
What's the trading deadline if any ? We need help in the OLine, especially with the uncertainty with Duane Brown which is a bigger issue for us than rookie Martin going on IR.
Can we still make trades now or are we left with only sifting thru players cut who become free agents for help in the Oline ?
Can we still make trades now or are we left with only sifting thru players cut who become free agents for help in the Oline ?
PapaL
Loose Screw
Trades can definitely be made. I saw two in my feed these last couple of days. I'd be trying to move Shorts and Blue for OL help.
Savage to the Boys for an O-lineman!
If you want something, you'd better be prepared to give up something.
And Shorts and Blue isn't something.
PapaL
Loose Screw
No one is saying they're going to bring in starters. Shorts would be a nice addition to a WR needy team like the Rams. Again, I'm talking depth and not a Probowl LT.
In his last five games, Alfred Blue averaged 4.3 yards.
I'm a bird in the hand guy & until I see one of these other guys have that kind of production in real games, Blue is going to be on my roster.
Realistically, that's about it. I don't think you'll find any team out there who has a surplus of OL that's of anything of value. OL depth is a prized commodity.
It's not gong to affect this season, but from now on, they need to be taking at least 2 OL high in the draft from here on out.
Wow DB, that's bold ! We'd have to get a significant player for him.
C'mon man! What if Oz goes down? Then you're left with and Weeden and whoever.
Hey man, that's what I'm sayin. DB is the one who is willing to make that deal. But if it were to happen the Texans would have to be receive significant player from Dallas.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Porky
Hall of Fame
We got Clark for a 7th last year so serviceable guys are available for 3rd day picks. I don't think Blue has much, if any, trade value. RB's like Blue are a dime a dozen. Shorts may have some value for a team in need of WR help. He can start for a few teams, be the 3rd/slot guy for a lot of teams and can add quality depth to nearly any team. Shorts is a pretty good player, he's just buried here.
And f you're talking Savage I want a guy that can start and be here long term in return.
And f you're talking Savage I want a guy that can start and be here long term in return.
Texansballer74
The Marine
The offensive line had a few hiccups with their pass protection (1st team). Other than those two miscues, they were pretty damn good with protecting Brock.
Run blocking was horrendous. We can not be a one dimensional team. I understand we are missing three starters but they need to work on their run blocking. The offense will open up big time if they get this together.
Run blocking was horrendous. We can not be a one dimensional team. I understand we are missing three starters but they need to work on their run blocking. The offense will open up big time if they get this together.
Why would Dallas want another inexperienced QB like Savage? They have to be looking for a vet backup.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Savage won't net you a starter in return. Like you just stated about Blue, well that applies for Savage as well.
I know, I'm just trying to think who we could trade with that has major Oline players.
If a guy that can really help becomes available, I think Rick Smith will have to cough up a draft pick.
That's a good option too for the right guy.
I like Savage better than Weeden anyway.
I just can't think of anyone else on our team that we don't need immediately and has trade value.
There's not anyone that's not integral to the team. They're just not a deep team.
I agree.
I look at the projected 53 and just about everyone sans QB looks to get a fair amount of playing time.
With too many guys that should be depth... starting.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Newton should be ready for the opener.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I actually don't think Shorts is all that special as a player, only that he is able to play in the slot and outside. For this team, however, he is unique in that he has experience playing all of the receiver positions, and on top of that he is very cheap. He also provides some sort of leadership that really only Hopkins can provide, and even then it's different. Shorts is a lunch pail, non-star, while Hopkins has been down a different road in his short time in the league. I think Shorts not only provides some versatility, but his unique (to this team) experience is quite valuable to some of these younger guys. He's also not likely to ***** and moan about playing time, as that wouldn't necessarily be his role. He is more of an insurance policy. I'd be very surprised if he does not make the team.
In addition, preseason is one animal, but the regular season is an entirely different, much larger beast. The receiver position in preseason vs the regular season is quite different. Different coverages, more disguises, obviously better players, etc. Some players at this position, as many of us know, struggle in adjusting during the early portion of their career. I would be surprised if a coach like OB relied so heavily on rookies and second year players at WR.
Texansballer74
The Marine
The Vikings are trying to trade Veteran Center John Sullivan.
The Seahawks are fielding trade offers for Center Patrick Lewis.
Rick Smith get er done.
The Seahawks are fielding trade offers for Center Patrick Lewis.
Rick Smith get er done.
Sullivan would be a great fit.
I know he got hurt and was out for the season. I would love to know CND's opinions on his injury/recovery. (Thanks alot MW/KT etc....)
I know he got hurt and was out for the season. I would love to know CND's opinions on his injury/recovery. (Thanks alot MW/KT etc....)
From the first round of cuts......
Martin Wallace, Tackle – Cut by the Chicago Bears. Never started. Second year out of Temple. Wallace is a perennial practice squad guy who’s probably at the end of the line.
John Kling, OL – UDFA who failed to survive the first cuts from the Bears. Will probably catch on with a team looking for practice squad guys due to his massive size and youth.
*Michael Huey, Guard – 27 year old Texas native and UT grad who can’t seem to stick in the NFL but has had success in the Arena League (played for Arizona Rattlers on two Arena League Championship teams). Might catch the eye of the Texans due to his lone star ties.
Cory Tucker, Guard – UDFA who failed to survive Browns' first cuts. If you can’t help the Browns, you can’t help Houston.
Curtis Feigt, OT – 26 years old and has no meaningful pro stats so far.
Jesse Davis, OT – cut by Jets in his second year. Probably headed for someone’s practice squad.
Andrew Gardner, Guard – spent most of his career bouncing around the practice squad scene. Texans fans will remember him from his days in Houston (2011-2013). Can’t imagine he’ll be coming back.
*Blake Muir, Guard – Australian-born Baylor grad. He was on the 49ers when the Texans had joint practices and their first preseason game this year.
*Erik Pears, OT – 34-year old vet is a little long in the tooth, but was also on the Niners when the Texans shared practice and preseason game one.
Ian Silberman, Guard – second year player also cut by the 49ers.
Taylor Fallin, OT – UDFA who was cut by Tampa.
*Will Campbell, OT – Voted best high school player in the state of Michigan during his pre-collegiate days. Played college in Michigan. Drafted by and ultimately cut by the Jets. Seems to have motivational issues and has a history of struggling with weight and condition. Great potential, but it may take the perfect situation for Campbell to live up to it. Just cut by Tennessee, so might be worth mining for information on a division rival.
Nick Ritcher, OL – unable to find much on him, which literally makes him un-noteworthy.
Al Bond, OL – not much on him either, other than some average NFL Combine video.
Cody Booth, OL – another non-newsworthy entry into the list.
Martin Wallace, Tackle – Cut by the Chicago Bears. Never started. Second year out of Temple. Wallace is a perennial practice squad guy who’s probably at the end of the line.
John Kling, OL – UDFA who failed to survive the first cuts from the Bears. Will probably catch on with a team looking for practice squad guys due to his massive size and youth.
*Michael Huey, Guard – 27 year old Texas native and UT grad who can’t seem to stick in the NFL but has had success in the Arena League (played for Arizona Rattlers on two Arena League Championship teams). Might catch the eye of the Texans due to his lone star ties.
Cory Tucker, Guard – UDFA who failed to survive Browns' first cuts. If you can’t help the Browns, you can’t help Houston.
Curtis Feigt, OT – 26 years old and has no meaningful pro stats so far.
Jesse Davis, OT – cut by Jets in his second year. Probably headed for someone’s practice squad.
Andrew Gardner, Guard – spent most of his career bouncing around the practice squad scene. Texans fans will remember him from his days in Houston (2011-2013). Can’t imagine he’ll be coming back.
*Blake Muir, Guard – Australian-born Baylor grad. He was on the 49ers when the Texans had joint practices and their first preseason game this year.
*Erik Pears, OT – 34-year old vet is a little long in the tooth, but was also on the Niners when the Texans shared practice and preseason game one.
Ian Silberman, Guard – second year player also cut by the 49ers.
Taylor Fallin, OT – UDFA who was cut by Tampa.
*Will Campbell, OT – Voted best high school player in the state of Michigan during his pre-collegiate days. Played college in Michigan. Drafted by and ultimately cut by the Jets. Seems to have motivational issues and has a history of struggling with weight and condition. Great potential, but it may take the perfect situation for Campbell to live up to it. Just cut by Tennessee, so might be worth mining for information on a division rival.
Nick Ritcher, OL – unable to find much on him, which literally makes him un-noteworthy.
Al Bond, OL – not much on him either, other than some average NFL Combine video.
Cody Booth, OL – another non-newsworthy entry into the list.
Thanks for compiling that.
Redtexans
Waterboy
Houston Texans Trade Rumors: Two Teams Reportedly Seeking To Trade Veteran Centers
http://www.battleredblog.com/2016/8/29/12700438/two-teams-seeking-to-trade-veteran-centers
http://www.battleredblog.com/2016/8/29/12700438/two-teams-seeking-to-trade-veteran-centers