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What to do in 1st round?

Out of position for top 3 QB's, what should be 1st round strategy now?

  • Total voters
    132
  • Poll closed .
powda said:
Out of Hoyer, Yates, and wheeden, i'd rather see wheeden. Hoyer told you all you need to know against kc. Yates is a marginal talent familiar with the system and likely to be available whenever we want him. Wheeden has better tools then the other 2 and i'd like to think Cleveland squandered him. He's the devil we dont know.

I'd like to see us go into camp with:

Glennon
Savage
Draft pick
Wheeden

Let them duke it out.
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He's 32 years old and got benched in Dallas for Matt Cassel.

We know who he is.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think that reason is getting fuzzier & fuzzier. Maybe the NFL is looking for something different. A more athletic quarterback seems all the rage. But McCarron is a prototypical sized QB from a pro system, checked all the boxes... may not have the strongest arm, but definitely strong enough.

IMO, he's every bit a first rounder as Sam Bradford, Matthew Stafford, even Philip Rivers. Connor Cook should also be a first rounder, but judging from the media noise now, he may be overlooked. Kevin Hogan... the NFL used to drool for a guy with his measurables, his performance, & his experience 3+ years starting. Now...... may be a day three guy. Doesn't make sense to me.
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Well, poor showings against Alabama and the Big Ten title game doesn't help. Neither does skipping the Senior Bowl.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think that reason is getting fuzzier & fuzzier. Maybe the NFL is looking for something different. A more athletic quarterback seems all the rage. But McCarron is a prototypical sized QB from a pro system, checked all the boxes... may not have the strongest arm, but definitely strong enough.

IMO, he's every bit a first rounder as Sam Bradford, Matthew Stafford, even Philip Rivers. Connor Cook should also be a first rounder, but judging from the media noise now, he may be overlooked. Kevin Hogan... the NFL used to drool for a guy with his measurables, his performance, & his experience 3+ years starting. Now...... may be a day three guy. Doesn't make sense to me.
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Well, poor showings against Alabama and the Big Ten title game doesn't help. Neither does skipping the Senior Bowl.
WolverineFan said:
What way is that?
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Great running game and practice the hell out of jail break plays. RGIII has been very accurate when throwing on the run. Give him the option to keep plays alive with his legs, but I wouldn't have any designed QB runs. That would be my biggest change from Seattle's offense. Have RGIII do that and give him a young stud at RB (I'd take Elliot in the 1st, myself) and watch the offense take off.
 
DocBar said:
Great running game and practice the hell out of jail break plays. RGIII has been very accurate when throwing on the run. Give him the option to keep plays alive with his legs, but I wouldn't have any designed QB runs. That would be my biggest change from Seattle's offense. Have RGIII do that and give him a young stud at RB (I'd take Elliot in the 1st, myself) and watch the offense take off.
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Okay that's all offensive philosophy and that's fine, but the difference is Wilson can throw from the pocket. All that other stuff works because the defense can't just let him sit in the pocket and throw downfield because he will burn them.

Griffin has yet to show that he consistently hurt teams from the pocket. You can build that philosophy around him but you may find out that teams will just confine him to the pocket because they aren't threatened by his arm.
 
Mollywhopper said:
After he was benched in favor of whatever hot garbage Cleveland had going on at any given moment.
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Well that has to mean something's wrong with Weeden, considering all of those HOF coaching staff's Cleveland has had since 1999. :sarcasm:
in case you didn't pick up on it.
 
DocBar said:
Well that has to mean something's wrong with Weeden, considering all of those HOF coaching staff's Cleveland has had since 1999. :sarcasm:
in case you didn't pick up on it.
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That's why all of Cleveland's castoffs have so often gone on to great success elsewhere, ya?
 
WolverineFan said:
Okay that's all offensive philosophy and that's fine, but the difference is Wilson can throw from the pocket. All that other stuff works because the defense can't just let him sit in the pocket and throw downfield because he will burn them.

Griffin has yet to show that he consistently hurt teams from the pocket. You can build that philosophy around him but you may find out that teams will just confine him to the pocket because they aren't threatened by his arm.
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Play action passes, bootlegs, and a great running game are the perfect counters to a defense trying to contain a mobile QB. From what I saw of RGIII in Gruden's system is that RGIII seemed forbidden to run at all. He was like a fish out of water. If you run an offense like I'm talking about, he'd take to like a duck to water.
And he's plenty accurate from the pocket, especially on intermediate and deep balls.

In 2012, the 'Skins QB's were sacked 33 times.
2013:43
2014:58
2015:27
Even Tom Brady and Peyton Manning would have a hard time shining as a pocket passer under pressure like that. I'm not laying all of the sacks on the OL or RB's, but I'm also not putting them all on RGIII.
 
WolverineFan said:
He's 32 years old and got benched in Dallas for Matt Cassel.

We know who he is.
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Cleveland and Dallas sucked before him and after him. Typically, saying a guy is 32 means something but in weeds case it means less because of his draft age and experience vs other 32 year olds. I didnt think he was hoyable here, in fact i thought he'd be way worse then he was...But point taken.
 
DocBar said:
Well, poor showings against Alabama and the Big Ten title game doesn't help. Neither does skipping the Senior Bowl.
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Is Goff going to the Senior Bowl? Didn't he throw 5 INTs in a game against Alabama? Oh wait, it wasn't Alabama was it?
 
DocBar said:
Play action passes, bootlegs, and a great running game are the perfect counters to a defense trying to contain a mobile QB. From what I saw of RGIII in Gruden's system is that RGIII seemed forbidden to run at all. He was like a fish out of water. If you run an offense like I'm talking about, he'd take to like a duck to water.
And he's plenty accurate from the pocket, especially on intermediate and deep balls.

In 2012, the 'Skins QB's were sacked 33 times.
2013:43
2014:58
2015:27
Even Tom Brady and Peyton Manning would have a hard time shining as a pocket passer under pressure like that. I'm not laying all of the sacks on the OL or RB's, but I'm also not putting them all on RGIII.
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From DB's link in the RGIII thread
If your first read is covered there is a 90% chance that the play will be a debacle. How is that possible? You are an intelligent person. You have freakish athletic ability. You practice hard. How come you look so confused? Do you watch other quarterbacks? Emulate any of them!!!

Sure your offensive line stinks but you create the majority of sacks. You hold the ball too long. You run away from the pocket rather than stepping up into it. You rarely release the ball quickly and when you do it is inaccurate. You step into passes like there is a pool full of alligators in front of you.

You thrive only in the chaos you create. The few dynamic plays you have made since 2012 have come on plays where you scramble. Sometimes the scrambling is necessary but for the most part it appears you fear pockets. I’m sending you cargo shorts for Christmas.
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link
 
DocBar said:
I don't think you can get the taint of that organization off you once it's on you. HA
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I think there's some bit of truth to that. A bad organization and certainly bad coaching can sometimes irreparably harm a player, and especially a QB. But if you go through the list of QB's the Browns have toyed with and discarded over the years, a list of potential franchise guys it is certainly not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cleveland_Browns_starting_quarterbacks#Starters_per_season

They're not good at building 'em, but they're not any better at picking 'em. And Weeden looks just another of 'em.
 
sandman said:
Read the author bio. He has as much credibility in his objectivity as Texian does when discussing Rick Smith.
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Doesn't mean he is blind. Yeah he's a fan instead of a professional writer. So what? How many people here could see that Hoyer sucked? How many said it? Were they wrong because they were not professional writers?

And like him or not (I don't particularly) Texian is often right about RS and the front office of the Texans
 
I was big fan of McCarron coming out of college but think Coker offers same if not more; just needs to get some NFL action under his feet. I like Goff and still undecided on Wentz; dislike Cook and Hack. Regardless, we better have someone to replace DB or it will not matter who is at QB.
 
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badboy said:
I was big fan of McCarron coming out of college but think Coker offers same if not more; just needs to get some NFL action under his feet. I like Goff and still undecided on Wentz; dislike Cook and Hack. Regardless, we better have someone to replace DB or it will not matter who is at QB.
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But does that OT have to be in the first round or could someone like Haeg or Murphy be picked up in the third and step in? Any FA tackles out there that would be better fit?
 
badboy said:
I was big fan of McCarron coming out of college but think Coker offers same if not more; just needs to get some NFL action under his feet. I like Goff and still undecided on Wentz; dislike Cook and Hack. Regardless, we better have someone to replace DB or it will not matter who is at QB.
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Where is Double Barrel going and why does that affect the QB position?? :kitten:
 
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thunderkyss said:
Is Goff going to the Senior Bowl? Didn't he throw 5 INTs in a game against Alabama? Oh wait, it wasn't Alabama was it?
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Goff isn't eligible for the Senior Bowl. Cook is.

IMO, all players should accept SB invites unless they are considered a 1st round lock and want to avoid injury. Cook is not considered a 1st round lock. In fact, word from scouts is that he is falling toward the 3rd round and there are a ton of questions surrounding his accuracy, attitude, and leadership. SB is the perfect place to put all of those issues to bed and he voluntarily passed it up (which only adds to the attitude critics).
 
JB said:
But does that OT have to be in the first round or could someone like Haeg or Murphy be picked up in the third and step in? Any FA tackles out there that would be better fit?
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Per my end of season mock, I select Baylor's Spencer Drango in third or I also like Kyle Murphy. Conklin may be there at 22 but I still have not decided if he is that much better. OBrien seems to be ok with Clark but...
 
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badboy said:
Per my end of season mock, I select Baylor's Spencer Drango in third or I also like Kyle Murphy. Conklin may be there at 22 but I still have not decided if he is that much better. OBrien seems to be ok with Clark but...
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Knowing the Texans, they will go with Clark and maybe another FA... if they add a OT it won't be until later rounds
 
JB said:
Knowing the Texans, they will go with Clark and maybe another FA... if they add a OT it won't be until later rounds
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Seems like we usually attack needs that way:

Incumbent v average free agent v draft pick
 
WolverineFan said:
Goff isn't eligible for the Senior Bowl. Cook is.

IMO, all players should accept SB invites unless they are considered a 1st round lock and want to avoid injury. Cook is not considered a 1st round lock. In fact, word from scouts is that he is falling toward the 3rd round and there are a ton of questions surrounding his accuracy, attitude, and leadership. SB is the perfect place to put all of those issues to bed and he voluntarily passed it up (which only adds to the attitude critics).
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I cant speak for his leadership, or attitude i know he has had teammates come out and speak on his behalf, but thats it. I cant make to much out of declining a senior bowl invitation as i think he is still recovering from that shoulder injury, i dont think it was ever fully healed, and i think it could have got hurt worse playing down the stretch. If he would have gone and played the SB with a hurt shoulder it could have had more of a negative impact then avoiding it. truth is we wont know the actual reason for him declining
 
Shishkabob said:
I cant speak for his leadership, or attitude i know he has had teammates come out and speak on his behalf, but thats it. I cant make to much out of declining a senior bowl invitation as i think he is still recovering from that shoulder injury, i dont think it was ever fully healed, and i think it could have got hurt worse playing down the stretch. If he would have gone and played the SB with a hurt shoulder it could have had more of a negative impact then avoiding it. truth is we wont know the actual reason for him declining
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Phil Savage (Senior Bowl Executive Director) did not list Cook among those who cited injury as their reason for declining an invite. He's training in California with George Whitfield instead.
 
JB said:
Knowing the Texans, they will go with C who Clark and maybe another FA... if they add a OT it won't be until later rounds
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So if by August (8 month recovery) it becomes obvious to O'Brien that his pro bowl Left tackle does not have strength to push off in any direction, he will say "dad gum I should have drafted a big old boy on day 1 or 2!"

JB I don't disagree with your post but I think a LT has to be drafted no later than round three. Haeg should be there in round 4 but he will probably need more time to be NFL ready than my three guys. Signing Chris Clark should be a high priority and should also indicate where a OT will be taken.
 
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badboy said:
So if by August (8 month recovery) it becomes obvious to O'Brien that his pro bowl Left tackle does not have strength to push off in any direction, he will say "dad gum I should have drafted a big old boy on day 1 or 2!"

JB I don't disagree with your post but I think a LT has to be drafted no later than round three. Haeg should be there in round 4 but he will probably need more time to be NFL ready than my three guys. Signing Chris Clark should be a high priority and should also indicate where a OT will be taken.
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Spriggs would have to be thought of as BPA if no good QBs remain at 22
 
JB said:
But does that OT have to be in the first round or could someone like Haeg or Murphy be picked up in the third and step in? Any FA tackles out there that would be better fit?
Click to expand...

Fahn Cooper/Le'Raven Clark in the 3rd would be better than those guys. IMHO
 
steelbtexan said:
Fahn Cooper/Le'Raven Clark in the 3rd would be better than those guys. IMHO
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Murphy (Short arms) Probably moves inside to OG.

Haeg- Obviously has great movement skills but has struggled against Sr. Bowl comp.

I wouldn't be against picking Haeg in the 3-4th rd range. But he has a large learning curve. He could be good in 3 yrs with great coaching. Too bad later rd picks only have 4 yr rookie contracts.
 
steelbtexan said:
Fahn Cooper/Le'Raven Clark in the 3rd would be better than those guys. IMHO
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I mocked L. Clark to Texans in 2015 but he returned to schools (wisely I must say) but he did not help himself much. He is more likely a 4th round or later IMO. His muscle memory may be hard to correct for Texans as he was taught for years to back pedal and "catch" the attacking D. We need a guy that plants his anchor or drives forward to pancake or at least control into the second level..like Spriggs. I am not saying Clark could not be successful eventually but will need long, long time & more than likely we will not have that.
 
badboy said:
I mocked L. Clark to Texans in 2015 but he returned to schools (wisely I must say) but he did not help himself much. He is more likely a 4th round or later IMO. His muscle memory may be hard to correct for Texans as he was taught for years to back pedal and "catch" the attacking D. We need a guy that plants his anchor or drives forward to pancake or at least control into the second level..like Spriggs. I am not saying Clark could not be successful eventually but will need long, long time & more than likely we will not have that.
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Thaks for the feedback. I really like Fahn Cooper, he played both LT/RT for Ole Miss last yr and I thought he did a really good job of replacing Tunsil. Check him out and let me know what you think.
 
PHILLYTEXANFAN said:
Spriggs would have to be thought of as BPA if no good QBs remain at 22[/QUOTE Not sure what your board looks like or if you have one nor do I know you well enough to guess your thinking but Spriggs will not only not be BPA at 22 but not even best player at a need position. Having said that, I could see a trade down and getting him with top 15 of second round. He definitely fits our scheme (ZBS) and has the skill sets for LT but will need time to adjust to power defenders of NFL. IIRC he did well against Bosa.
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He's currently my 4th rated OT, and this is prior to the senior practices, I'll wait till just after the combine for any possible adjustments though. OT is a bigger need imo, 1. Bc we don't know when Duane will be ready, and 2. I'm not confident in Clark as a good backup, spot duty for a snap here or there sure, but as a starter... 0 confidence
 
steelbtexan said:
Murphy (Short arms) Probably moves inside to OG.

Haeg- Obviously has great movement skills but has struggled against Sr. Bowl comp.

I wouldn't be against picking Haeg in the 3-4th rd range. But he has a large learning curve. He could be good in 3 yrs with great coaching. Too bad later rd picks only have 4 yr rookie contracts.
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you know that is what some are saying about Murphy (Zerlein I think) so I watched his games again and just disagree. Long arms can be advantage but so can quick feet sliding which he has + his "awareness" get him into right spot quickly. 32 3/8

http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2015/10/scouting-report-kyle-murphy-ot.html
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1996543/kyle-murphy
 
PHILLYTEXANFAN said:
He's currently my 4th rated OT, and this is prior to the senior practices, I'll wait till just after the combine for any possible adjustments though. OT is a bigger need imo, 1. Bc we don't know when Duane will be ready, and 2. I'm not confident in Clark as a good backup, spot duty for a snap here or there sure, but as a starter... 0 confidence
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My feelings on Chris Clark same but 1) he did better than I expected with minimal game snaps before coming in to replace DB. 2) I heard Obrien complimenting him. As I said upstream, if he is signed for more than one season..that tells us something.
 
I was a fan of Le'Raven Clark last year and early this year but he had some just absolutely terrible games this year. He's not even on my board at the moment. I don't think he's gonna be able to pass protect in a pro alignment against NFL pass rushers.

Cooper is interesting. Put some good things on tape this year but didn't stand out the way that a lot of other guys on his team did. But he's been a starter all four years in college. Started as a redshirt freshman at Bowling Green. Was an All American at a JUCO in Illinois. And then started his final two years at Ole Miss.

I'm gonna need to try to dig up why he left Bowling Green. It obviously wasn't a talent issue. I'd like more info on that. But other than that, he's been a consistent performer. He flew under my radar this year and I'm gonna do some homework on him. I like him.
 
powda said:
I dont think McCarron is that much better then Glennon honestly and would rather not give up draft picks for him when your also dedicating picks to move up in the draft.
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That's a sticking point for me too - If we're drafting one of the top 3 prospects at the position , we're gonna have to move up to do it. That means dedicating multiple draft picks to the position .... as much as I wouldn't mind McCarron , I cant see giving up more picks to get him here on top of the multiple picks it takes to get one of the top 3 in the draft.

It's either one or the other .... draft a QB early and go with whatever scrub vet available until the rookie is ready OR go with McCarron (assuming the Bungles are willing to move him) and don't draft one of the early QB's .... maybe take one of the later prospects.
 
I would be worried about the Texans' medical staff properly evaluating Cook's shoulder injury.

Should we get a pool started so that CnD can attend the Combine? Since some think that Mr. McNair is only interested in money, he might grant CnD access if we foot the bill!

Cook also has a reputation for being "difficult". How well do you think that will work out with "Tea Kettle" O'Brien, especially considering that the team passed on McCarron and his cockiness?
 
DocBar said:
I would be worried about the Texans' medical staff properly evaluating Cook's shoulder injury.

Should we get a pool started so that CnD can attend the Combine? Since some think that Mr. McNair is only interested in money, he might grant CnD access if we foot the bill!

Cook also has a reputation for being "difficult". How well do you think that will work out with "Tea Kettle" O'Brien, especially considering that the team passed on McCarron and his cockiness?
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Maybe they can stand on sideline screaming at each other. At least that has not been done before..uh wait..nevermind
 
I'm sure I've never seen a list like this for the top 10 QB's in the draft.
PFF is known for different analysis, but this looks upside down to me.


TOP 10 QUARTERBACKS
BY PFF OVERALL RATING
  • 1
    Baker Mayfield
    Oklahoma

  • 2
    Trevone Boykin
    TCU

  • 3
    Matt Johnson
    Bowling Green

    • 4
      Mason Rudolph
      Oklahoma State


    • 5
      Brandon Doughty
      Western Kentucky


    • 6
      Jared Goff
      Cal


    • 7
      Paxton Lynch
      Memphis


    • 8
      Marquise Williams
      North Carolina


    • 9
      Zach Terrell
      Western Michigan


    • 10
      Greg Ward Jr.
What do you guys think of this list?
 
DocBar said:
I'm sure I've never seen a list like this for the top 10 QB's in the draft.
PFF is known for different analysis, but this looks upside down to me.


TOP 10 QUARTERBACKS
BY PFF OVERALL RATING
  • 1
    Baker Mayfield
    Oklahoma

  • 2
    Trevone Boykin
    TCU

  • 3
    Matt Johnson
    Bowling Green
    • 4
      Mason Rudolph
      Oklahoma State


    • 5
      Brandon Doughty
      Western Kentucky


    • 6
      Jared Goff
      Cal


    • 7
      Paxton Lynch
      Memphis


    • 8
      Marquise Williams
      North Carolina


    • 9
      Zach Terrell
      Western Michigan


    • 10
      Greg Ward Jr.
What do you guys think of this list?
Click to expand...

This is probably about efficiency in college and has nothing to do with being a pro prospect.

If this is a pro prospect list, it's the worst I've seen.
 
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