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Carson Wentz, My #1 QB going into 2015 college season

I don't think 3-5 years should be an expected wait for a guy like Wentz to begin starting and contributing. It should be sooner, 2 years perhaps.

3-5 years should be the expected wait to gain a good idea of what his peak and mean should become.
 
beerlover said:
That is & always will be a problem for fanbase to resolve own personal issues. Luckily or not, that's why paid professionals oversee the process, lol :barman:
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Hopefully Goff in the 1st and Wentz in the 3rd.

I haven't really gotten a chance to check out Wentz other than a few you tube videos. Tell me how is Wentz different than Savage?
 
steelbtexan said:
Hopefully Goff in the 1st and Wentz in the 3rd.

I haven't really gotten a chance to check out Wentz other than a few you tube videos. Tell me how is Wentz different than Savage?
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Tom is a pocket QB with minimal mobility in todays NFL. Wentz is a mobile QB who can extend plays with his legs & arm.

In regards to draft grade, I know we will remember as well many others who frequent the draft boards etc. but it really won't matter once O'Brian gets a hold of him in camp & develops that potential whatever round he was drafted. So my point being, draft him while you have a chance & don't get cute or hung up on where he is projected or slotted draft wise, that's a suckers game when it comes to a QB who can play in the league.
 
Mollywhopper said:
I don't think 3-5 years should be an expected wait for a guy like Wentz to begin starting and contributing. It should be sooner, 2 years perhaps.

3-5 years should be the expected wait to gain a good idea of what his peak and mean should become.
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Aaron Rodgers waited 3 years as back-up but of course that was to Brett Favre, but point was he was groomed to succeed so when time came he was ready. So to respond to your statement, I would expect him to start earlier, as injury's often force the issue, just that we'll see & now exactly what we know in 3-5 years or about same time his second contract will be due. Hope that clarifies it for not just you but everybody.
 
beerlover said:
That is & always will be a problem for fanbase to resolve own personal issues. Luckily or not, that's why paid professionals oversee the process, lol :barman:
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The paid professionals disagree with you. It's rare as hell for teams without established starters to sit new QBs for long.
 
beerlover said:
Aaron Rodgers waited 3 years as back-up but of course that was to Brett Favre, but point was he was groomed to succeed so when time came he was ready. So to respond to your statement, I would expect him to start earlier, as injury's often force the issue, just that we'll see & now exactly what we know in 3-5 years or about same time his second contract will be due. Hope that clarifies it for not just you but everybody.
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Aaron Rodgers behind Brett Favre is so anomalous to make an example of it's silly.

Other than that apparently we seem to agree.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Aaron Rodgers behind Brett Favre is so anomalous to make an example of it's silly.
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Particularly because sitting him that long wasn't the plan. Farve had been making noises about retiring for a couple years. Plus the fact Rodgers literally fell into their laps after being considered for #1 overall.
 
infantrycak said:
Particularly because sitting him that long wasn't the plan. Farve had been making noises about retiring for a couple years. Plus the fact Rodgers literally fell into their laps after being considered for #1 overall.
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Yeah, Texans had the 17th pick & passed, selected Travis Johnson instead, lol :texflag:
 
Marshall said:
The link was to a pay to view site.
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I clicked on the podcast and listened to the entire Carson Wentz interview with no problem or without spending a penny. See bottom of the article, orange button w/ a white arrow.
 
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Texian said:
I clicked on the podcast and listened to the entire Carson Wentz interview with no problem or without spending a penny. See bottom of the article, orange button w/ a white arrow.
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Let me know if you get a bill. I only know I was taken to the pay site.
 
It just takes you to an SI site that has a podcast interview embedded in it. There's nothing to bill and no one doing any billing.
 
Gil Brandt ‏@Gil_Brandt 9m9 minutes ago

Wentz is a big (6-6), strong guy who can also run the ball; as a junior he rushed for 642 yards and 6 TDs.

Wentz suffered his injury on Oct. 17, but finished the game. In 6 games this season, he has 63.7 comp %, 16 TDs, 2 INTs.

Wentz won't get to play (broken wrist) when 4-time defending FCS champions host Montana in 2nd rd of playoffs Saturday at 3:30 p.m. ET.

Write this name down: Carson Wentz, QB, North Dakota St. This player has tremendous upside, will get draft interest, will be at @SeniorBowl.
 
thunderkyss said:
So... Mayock knows what he's talking about now?

Hard to keep track when we should respect his opinion & when we should ignore it.
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Well Debbie, Mayock and Greg Cosell have always been at the top of my list, I trust them more than most. I don't think I've ever wavered on this. Mayock played the game and watches more video than most and Cosell watches more video than anyone but we always appreciate your downer novice opinion. Just so we're clear about your expertise, how many Shrine Games, Senior Bowls, Combines and Pro Days have you personally attended? Cosell watches 40 hours a week of game videos. Is your study of game videos anywhere close to those number of hours?
 
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Texian said:
Well Debbie, Mayock and Greg Cosell have always been at the top of my list, I trust them more than most. I don't think I've ever wavered on this. Mayock played the game and watches more video than most and Cosell watches more video than anyone but we always appreciate your downer novice opinion. Just so we're clear about your expertise, how many Shrine Games, Senior Bowls, Combines and Pro Days have you personally attended? Cosell watches 40 hours a week of game videos. Is your study of game videos anywhere close to those number of hours?
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Classic. Mike Mayock's opinion should be highly regarded because Greg Cosell watches more video than I do.

At no point did I ever put my "expertise" over Mike Mayock's.

I don't know how Cosell's name got involved.

I simply asked the question, is Mayock's opinion to be regarded at this time, since he's constantly disregarded around here. Maybe not as much as some of the other talking heads (I've never heard anyone dismiss Cosell).
 
thunderkyss said:
Classic. Mike Mayock's opinion should be highly regarded because Greg Cosell watches more video than I do.

At no point did I ever put my "expertise" over Mike Mayock's.

I don't know how Cosell's name got involved.

I simply asked the question, is Mayock's opinion to be regarded at this time, since he's constantly disregarded around here. Maybe not as much as some of the other talking heads (I've never heard anyone dismiss Cosell).
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I figured you probably started posting this morning before you had your coffee. Which, if this was the case, you're excused.
 
Poking around a little in some game film nowadays, two things I saw: 1) Wentz came back more filled out physically for 2016, he's solidly built, and 2) Wentz is a really good athlete. I know it sounds dumb to compare the two, but it was his quiet feet (most times) and now his athletic ability that both remind me of Russell Wilson.

Some coaches will try to coach out those feet, preferring a bounce.
 
Will it hurt Wentz's stock at all with his freshman backup coming in and putting up the numbers that kid is putting up?
 
Shishkabob said:
Will it hurt Wentz's stock at all with his freshman backup coming in and putting up the numbers that kid is putting up?
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Maybe it will, maybe it won't. You're grading the player, not his teammates. But it needs to at least be a part of the conversation. His predecessor, Brock Jensen, put up huge numbers at NDSU and Wentz took over the job after Jensen graduated. FWIW, Jensen went undrafted and was signed as an UDFA by Miami but didn't make it through camp. Now he plays in the CFL.

Here are their career college stats, for comparison's sake...

Brock Jensen (6-3, 230)
644/993 (64.9%)
7648 Yards (7.70 YPA)
65 TD / 19 INT
147.3 QB Rating
3 National Championships

Carson Wentz (6-6, 235)
376/583 (64.5%)
4918 Yards (7.58 YPA)
44 TD / 12 INT
156.1 QB Rating
1 National Championship


Now there is a freshman backup who has led the team to the Final Four for the 5th straight year. You have to at least take into consideration that it's the coach/scheme and not the QB.
 
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WolverineFan said:
Maybe it will, maybe it won't. You're grading the player, not his teammates. But it needs to at least be a part of the conversation. His predecessor, Brock Jensen, put up huge numbers at NDSU and Wentz took over the job after Jensen graduated. FWIW, Jensen went undrafted and was signed as an UDFA by Miami but didn't make it through camp. Now he plays in the CFL.

Here are their career college stats, for comparison's sake...

Brock Jensen (6-3, 230)
644/993 (64.9%)
7648 Yards (7.70 YPA)
65 TD / 19 INT
147.3 QB Rating
3 National Championships

Carson Wentz (6-6, 235)
376/583 (64.5%)
4918 Yards (7.58 YPA)
44 TD / 12 INT
156.1 QB Rating
1 National Championship


Now there is a freshman backup who has led the team to the Final Four for the 5th straight year. You have to at least take into consideration that it's the coach/scheme and not the QB.
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And Wentz has a grade of 1-2 while Jensen doesn't get drafted? Why is that? What makes another good NDSU QB top of the class while one just as good, if not better, goes unnoticed?

Personally, I don't touch Wentz higher than 4 just because of the school he goes to and the competition that school plays. It's one thing where everyone on an NFL team is good, even another where the top colleges have the majority of the players who make it to the NFL scattered on them, but it's an entirely different story playing D1-AA talent that only a handful of guys out of 120+ schools will make the next level, if that much.

I mean, even playing the best of the best in D1-AA like NDSU does since they're always in the championship game, isn't in the same quadrant of the galaxy in talent faced that you'd face in the Big 10, Pac 12, SEC let alone the NFL. 99.9% of those guys will never where a helmet again after college. How do you evaluate someone like that? I mean it's hard enough evaluating Cook or Goff, who play against teams that have at least a handful of NFL caliber players on them.

Not saying you can't find a stud at a small school, but that seems like tremendous odds to overcome to be using a high pick on. I don't care how good Wentz looks, I don't take him earlier than 4 because I don't get what makes him better than the guy before him who was just as good who didn't get drafted.
 
Speedy said:
And Wentz has a grade of 1-2 while Jensen doesn't get drafted? Why is that? What makes another good NDSU QB top of the class while one just as good, if not better, goes unnoticed?

Personally, I don't touch Wentz higher than 4 just because of the school he goes to and the competition that school plays. It's one thing where everyone on an NFL team is good, even another where the top colleges have the majority of the players who make it to the NFL scattered on them, but it's an entirely different story playing D1-AA talent that only a handful of guys out of 120+ schools will make the next level, if that much.

I mean, even playing the best of the best in D1-AA like NDSU does since they're always in the championship game, isn't in the same quadrant of the galaxy in talent faced that you'd face in the Big 10, Pac 12, SEC let alone the NFL. 99.9% of those guys will never where a helmet again after college. How do you evaluate someone like that? I mean it's hard enough evaluating Cook or Goff, who play against teams that have at least a handful of NFL caliber players on them.

Not saying you can't find a stud at a small school, but that seems like tremendous odds to overcome to be using a high pick on. I don't care how good Wentz looks, I don't take him earlier than 4 because I don't get what makes him better than the guy before him who was just as good who didn't get drafted.
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Apply everything you just said to Baylor and Art Briles' system.
 
QB is tough. Bradshaw was from La. Tech. So small doesn't mean incapable of producing greatness. But the SEC hasn't exactly overwhelmed the NFL at the QB position either so BIG doesn't necessarily indicate greatness either.

I was looking forward to Savage, but he apparently hasn't impressed McNair after reading his (McNair's) comments.
 
Marshall said:
QB is tough. Bradshaw was from La. Tech. So small doesn't mean incapable of producing greatness. But the SEC hasn't exactly overwhelmed the NFL at the QB position either so BIG doesn't necessarily indicate greatness either.

I was looking forward to Savage, but he apparently hasn't impressed McNair after reading his (McNair's) comments.
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Take Bradshaw off that awesome Pittsburgh team and he'd have to buy a ticket to visit the HOF...
 
Speedy said:
And Wentz has a grade of 1-2 while Jensen doesn't get drafted? Why is that? What makes another good NDSU QB top of the class while one just as good, if not better, goes unnoticed?

Personally, I don't touch Wentz higher than 4 just because of the school he goes to and the competition that school plays. It's one thing where everyone on an NFL team is good, even another where the top colleges have the majority of the players who make it to the NFL scattered on them, but it's an entirely different story playing D1-AA talent that only a handful of guys out of 120+ schools will make the next level, if that much.

I mean, even playing the best of the best in D1-AA like NDSU does since they're always in the championship game, isn't in the same quadrant of the galaxy in talent faced that you'd face in the Big 10, Pac 12, SEC let alone the NFL. 99.9% of those guys will never where a helmet again after college. How do you evaluate someone like that? I mean it's hard enough evaluating Cook or Goff, who play against teams that have at least a handful of NFL caliber players on them.

Not saying you can't find a stud at a small school, but that seems like tremendous odds to overcome to be using a high pick on. I don't care how good Wentz looks, I don't take him earlier than 4 because I don't get what makes him better than the guy before him who was just as good who didn't get drafted.
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Wentz is a better athlete and has an NFL arm. Jensen doesn't have Wentz's arm. Jensen had a better more mature team and much better WRs. Wentz has the arm to make tight window and back shoulder throws. Wentz demonstrated uncanny calm and ability to perform extremely well in numerous 4th Q comebacks and game winning drives.
 
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I don't often agree with Texian about a QB, but when I do, its usually any QB but Blake Bortles.

Jokes aside, I like this guy. Here's to hopin our first 5 draft picks are on offense.

This might be the first season that I'm on the "Trade up and draft a QB" bandwagon. It seems like every draft other teams know what we're gunning for and trade up to snatch a prospect right before we pick. (not complaining about Kevin Johnson at all though). This season, if 2 QBs go and Wentz is available, you start considering moving up 3-8 picks, more depending on how fast they go and how late the Texans pick, mortgaging some of the future if you have to.
 
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Brandon420tx said:
I don't often agree with Texian about a QB, but when I do, its usually any QB but Blake Bortles.

Jokes aside, I like this guy. Here's to hopin our first 5 draft picks are on offense.

This might be the first season that I'm on the "Trade up and draft a QB" bandwagon. It seems like every draft other teams know what we're gunning for and trade up to snatch a prospect right before we pick. (not complaining about Kevin Johnson at all though). This season, if 2 QBs go and Wentz is available, you start considering moving up 3-8 picks, more depending on how fast they go and how late the Texans pick, mortgaging some of the future if you have to.
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I like the idea of a trade up. Problem with it though is who would have the final say because that decision especially for a QB, can cost either Rick, OB or both of them their jobs
 
PHILLYTEXANFAN said:
I like the idea of a trade up. Problem with it though is who would have the final say because that decision especially for a QB, can cost either Rick, OB or both of them their jobs
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You brought it OB because of his work with QB's, you let him have the say in what QB he wants. Rick can have his input everywhere else but QB should be OB's choice
 
I have not studied this draft, but just a general feeling I get is that this qb class is kind of like the first draft OB was here for from a qb standpoint.

I could be completely wrong though.

Just seems like there are a healthy crop of good potential 1st/2nd round guys and maybe some guys that can be had in the third or fourth that are decent prospects.

I really like Wentz, but at this point I'm just like pick one. Do your homework, and pick one.

If it's Wentz I'd hope OB can get him up to NFL speed because I LOVE Wentz's tools. If he comes to the NFL level and "gets it" he could be really special.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I have not studied this draft, but just a general feeling I get is that this qb class is kind of like the first draft OB was here for from a qb standpoint.

I could be completely wrong though.

Just seems like there are a healthy crop of good potential 1st/2nd round guys and maybe some guys that can be had in the third or fourth that are decent prospects.

I really like Wentz, but at this point I'm just like pick one. Do your homework, and pick one.

If it's Wentz I'd hope OB can get him up to NFL speed because I LOVE Wentz's tools. If he comes to the NFL level and "gets it" he could be really special.
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The way we've been running through QBs the last couple of years, we could used three or four QBs.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I have not studied this draft, but just a general feeling I get is that this qb class is kind of like the first draft OB was here for from a qb standpoint.
.
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I think there are a couple of guys who could grade as true top 10 picks. I think Cook should be in that group, but the "experts" don't.

They have Lynch & Goff rated higher than Cook so far. If true, that's two top 10 QBs.

I didn't think Bortles or Bridgewater were top 10 picks. Mid first rounders. Where Manziel was picked was where I thought they should have gone.

So I think this next class is a bit better.
 
I don't think Lynch is anything close to a top ten guy. Apparently a lot of people disagree with that, because he's rated the highest in most places. But personally I'd put him as a fringe first rounder. Fantastic blank slate to work with but you won't have any idea what you're getting until after you draft him. That's very risky.

I think Goff is a franchise guy. Top five pick for sure in my mind. I think Wentz has great tools but I need to study him a lot more, and there are legitimate questions about his transition to the next level. I think Cook is a top ten guy in every aspect except accuracy. Unfortunately, that is very important to me and he is way down the board in that regard. That's one of those things that is pretty much never fixed if it hasn't been fixed by now.

I'd go:
Goff - Top 5
Wentz - Top 25
Lynch - Top 35
Cook - Top 40

Obviously because of the importance of the position there is a high chance you could see those guys go higher than that. That's just the ballpark I'm comfortable with for now.

There's other guys I like in this draft as potential backups. The only other guy I like as a potential starter is Sudfeld. But he's not far from Savage territory and we already have one of those. We gotta strike high this time.
 
I like your breakdown & reasoning. If, in fact you view Wentz as top 25 worthy I think he fits best both from need & value perspective. I see him higher based on he's got a big body & stronger arm, than let's say a Blake Bortles who I would have been in favor of two years ago if he had.
 
bah007 said:
I don't think Lynch is anything close to a top ten guy. Apparently a lot of people disagree with that, because he's rated the highest in most places. But personally I'd put him as a fringe first rounder. Fantastic blank slate to work with but you won't have any idea what you're getting until after you draft him. That's very risky.

I think Goff is a franchise guy. Top five pick for sure in my mind. I think Wentz has great tools but I need to study him a lot more, and there are legitimate questions about his transition to the next level. I think Cook is a top ten guy in every aspect except accuracy. Unfortunately, that is very important to me and he is way down the board in that regard. That's one of those things that is pretty much never fixed if it hasn't been fixed by now.

I'd go:
Goff - Top 5
Wentz - Top 25
Lynch - Top 35
Cook - Top 40

Obviously because of the importance of the position there is a high chance you could see those guys go higher than that. That's just the ballpark I'm comfortable with for now.

There's other guys I like in this draft as potential backups. The only other guy I like as a potential starter is Sudfeld. But he's not far from Savage territory and we already have one of those. We gotta strike high this time.
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Agree with you about Goff. I have Lynch top 25 and Wentz 35. But if a team like the Texans drafting at 20 and Lynch/Wentz were there then you know BOB will be picking a QB. McNair said as much. Cook reminds me of Dalton and you could do alot worse than Cook.

What I hope happens is Brees gets cut and comes to Houston and a QB like Wentz can sit and learn for a couple of yrs. That would be the kinda thing that Green Bay would do.
 
beerlover said:
I like your breakdown & reasoning. If, in fact you view Wentz as top 25 worthy I think he fits best both from need & value perspective. I see him higher based on he's got a big body & stronger arm, than let's say a Blake Bortles who I would have been in favor of two years ago if he had.
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After the Sr. BowlI would bet you Wentz goes top 15.

Wentz = Flacco
 
So we're saying there's four first round QBs in this draft? Lynch, Goff, Cook, & Wentz?
 
Talent-wise, yes. Part of me wants to throw Cardale Jones in at the end of the first consideration, based on talent of course. He's currently knocked for lack of experience and off field concerns I believe
 
Brandon420tx said:
Talent-wise, yes. Part of me wants to throw Cardale Jones in at the end of the first consideration, based on talent of course. He's currently knocked for lack of experience and off field concerns I believe
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Forgot about Cardale.

I like him too.


There's some talent at qb this draft. I think this is a good time to not have a number one overall pick and be able to get a franchise guy.

Important thing is the team has options. I definitely want one of these guys that will be in this draft.

Time for OB to pick a guy.
 
I don't think Cardale has declared yet, and I think I remember him saying he wanted to graduate before going to the NFL last year after they beat bama, but I love his arm strength, even if he is surrounded by a wealth of talent at Ohio State
 
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This draft reminds me of 2007. Lot of guys I never really heard of now getting 'love'.
Guess it happens every year.
Brady Quinn, Drew Stanton, Kevin Kolb, John Beck, and everyone's poster boy for bustage, JaMarcus Russell. There are no Andrew Luck's or Marcus Mariota's in this draft so they're talking up the guys that are here.
But hey, what do I know.
 
Brandon420tx said:
Talent-wise, yes. Part of me wants to throw Cardale Jones in at the end of the first consideration, based on talent of course. He's currently knocked for lack of experience and off field concerns I believe
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He's knocked for not being able to diagnose defenses, not being able to get through progressions, and for not being very accurate. The guy is a day 3 talent whose hype was completely out of control last year based off OSU winning a national title with an elite defense and running game. He's big and has a strong arm. That's it. OSU had to completely dumb down their offense so that he could run it and he still got benched.
 
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