Patriots under investigation

[Tailgate]

Uh oh. This is interesting. Has a deflated ball helped them prevent fumbles? Sure looks that way, at least on the surface.

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/

 

[Playoffs]

Robert Kraft came out strong...

Of Brady and Belichick, Kraft said: “They are my guys. They are part of my family. And Bill, Tom and I have had many difficult discussions over the years, and I have never known them to lie to me.”

In his statement, Kraft held that the Patriots’ integrity had been unfairly questioned because of “public discourse which has been driven by media leaks.”

Said Kraft: “I am disappointed in the way this entire matter has been handled and reported upon. We expect hard facts as opposed to circumstantial leaked evidence to drive the conclusion of this investigation.”

“If the Wells investigation is not able to definitely determine that our organization tampered with the air pressure in the footballs, I would expect and hope that the league would apologize to our entire team, and in particular, Coach Belichick and Tom Brady, for what they have had to endure this past week,” Kraft said Monday night.

“I want to make it clear that I believe unconditionally that the New England Patriots have done nothing inappropriate,” Kraft said.

 

[Brisco_County]

Uh oh. This is interesting. Has a deflated ball helped them prevent fumbles? Sure looks that way, at least on the surface.

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/

I posted this a few pages back, and I'm glad you're posting again since this should be required reading for anyone questioning the impact of this issue.

The article raises three points that the media is not emphasizing, but should be:

• Deflating the balls was not just about benefitting the QB and receivers.
• Ball security is often the determining factor in winning.
• The statistical trend strongly suggests that this has been happening for five years.

Sharp's analysis drew some healthy skepticism, so he did follow up research on the most popular question, and it fully supports his original conclusion:

New England Patriots Fumble More Often When Playing for Other Teams

Last Thursday’s groundbreaking article on the impossibly real fumble prevention statistics by the New England Patriots was certainly a perfect lesson on the power of social media and sending a critical story “viral”. I tried to take a very unassuming, impartial look into a highly controversial topic, based not on opinion, but on statistics. What caught the attention of many was that it was uniquely different from the other “theory based” pieces on this topic, and contained undeniable concrete evidence that whatever was happening in New England since 2007 was more than just ridiculously abnormal. It was absolutely not a random fluctuation in the data and was extremely unlikely to be a mere coincidence.

...

...Of all the questions raised, the one most frequently asked (by literally hundreds of people) was: “What if you take a look at individual players when playing for the Patriots and when playing on other teams? How does the data change, and what would it tell us?” It was a terrific suggestion.

• Patriots players fumbled SIGNIFICANTLY more often when playing on other NFL teams than when playing for the Patriots:
  
• The most utilized of the Patriots players fumbled even more frequently when paying for other NFL teams:
  
• Learning ball possession skills in New England did NOT transfer to other NFL teams after players left:
  
• In fact, the opposite was true – players were MORE secure carrying the football before even playing for the Patriots than they were after leaving the Patriots:

...

Quick sidebar: Without even knowing what happened in 2007, I can tell from the data something changed for New England which did not change for the other 31 NFL teams. But the stars apparently are aligning on a NFL rule change which Tom Brady (and Peyton Manning) lobbied in favor of, and the NFL agreed to change policies. Brady wanted the NFL to let EVERY team provide its OWN footballs to use on offense. Prior to that year, the HOME team provided ALL the footballs, meaning the home quarterback selected the footballs the ROAD quarterback would play with on offense.

Link

This kind of offensive advantage wasn't coordinated by an equipment manager going rogue.

 

[DBCooper]

Tom Brady knows exactly how he likes his balls.

 

[Norg]

the ball boy might wanna have witness protection esp if he is going to throw either brady or Bill under the bus

 

[ObsiWan]

Uh oh. This is interesting. Has a deflated ball helped them prevent fumbles? Sure looks that way, at least on the surface.

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/

I need to know who is included in this dataset. Are they only talking RBs or RBs + WRs + QBs (they touch the ball too)? And what about personnel turnover. Are these the same guys for each team?

And I guess it's out of the realm of possibility that this indicates that the Pats cut any and all guys who show a tendency to fumble.

 

[Marshall]

Probably simpler just to shuffle him out the door with a great big bag of cash.

I'm sure there is both a carrot and a stick.

 

[Tailgate]

I need to know who is included in this dataset. Are they only talking RBs or RBs + WRs + QBs (they touch the ball too)? And what about personnel turnover. Are these the same guys for each team?

And I guess it's out of the realm of possibility that this indicates that the Pats cut any and all guys who show a tendency to fumble.

Valid questions. Also, they dont include domed teams, the fact that Pats run alot of offensive plays compared to avg and its fairly well known that if you fumble as a Patriot RB you are immediately forsaken to the bench.

 

[TexansSeminole]

Valid questions. Also, they dont include domed teams, the fact that Pats run alot of offensive plays compared to avg and its fairly well known that if you fumble as a Patriot RB you are immediately forsaken to the bench.

Probably because they've already deflated the ball and made it easier for you to hold on to it.

 

[Blake]

I posted this a few pages back, and I'm glad you're posting again since this should be required reading for anyone questioning the impact of this issue.

The article raises three points that the media is not emphasizing, but should be:

• Deflating the balls was not just about benefitting the QB and receivers.
• Ball security is often the determining factor in winning.
• The statistical trend strongly suggests that this has been happening for five years.

Sharp's analysis drew some healthy skepticism, so he did follow up research on the most popular question, and it fully supports his original conclusion:



Link

This kind of offensive advantage wasn't coordinated by an equipment manager going rogue.

I suggested the same thing here a few days ago.

Interesting stat.

New England is #31 in offensive fumbles with 13.

Indy/Washington are tied for #1 with 31 offensive fumbles.

Interesting to see that this season wasnt just an anomaly.

 

[OzzO]

Deflategate fallout: NFL focusing on Patriots' locker-room attendant


Bam.

Rogue lockerroom attendant acting on his own.

Just had to tap the keg, man.

First, per a league source, the other "area on way to field" is a bathroom. The bathroom consists of one toilet and one sink and a door that locks from the inside.

Second, according to the same source, the person carried two bags of balls into the bathroom: the 12 balls to be used by the Patriots and the 12 balls to be used by the Colts.

Third, from the same source, the evidence comes from a surveillance video that was discovered by the Patriots and given to the NFL early in the investigation.

Fourth, again from the same source, the video shows the employee in the bathroom for approximately 90 seconds.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/patriots-ball-attendant-just-using-the-bathroom/ar-AA8CEwY

good thing they timed it though.

.. and the footballs were taken into the bathroom? No wonder HWSNBM used gloves.

 

[Playoffs]

the person carried two bags of balls into the bathroom: the 12 balls to be used by the Patriots and the 12 balls to be used by the Colts...

He peed on Colts balls, thereby altering Professor Belichick's atmospheric conditions making Colts balls higher relative PSI.

 

[Double Barrel]

Third, from the same source, the evidence comes from a surveillance video that was discovered by the Patriots and given to the NFL early in the investigation.

Well, the Patriots themselves are not hiding evidence. Does this 'locker-room attendant' work for the Pats or the stadium? I know for Texans games, many of the support staff are working for NRG Stadium, not directly paid by the Texans.

 

[Blake]

He peed on Colts balls, thereby altering Professor Belichick's atmospheric conditions making Colts balls higher relative PSI.

Ewww....

I know this photo is of Manning, but still...

 

[Blake]

Well, the Patriots themselves are not hiding evidence. Does this 'locker-room attendant' work for the Pats or the stadium? I know for Texans games, many of the support staff are working for NRG Stadium, not directly paid by the Texans.

I dont know man. Either way it just doesnt make sense that whoever this person works for that they would alter footballs without direction from someone.

Is this Bane who just wants to see the world burn? Whoever it is, im sure they care about being the caretaker of the gameballs. I doubt they would do something this weird/random and potentially jeopardize their gig.

 

[klockWork]

This could be an organized crime. Someone made an offer to the ball boy that couldn't be refuse. Imagine having a hand into altering game equipment that could tip the scale in your favor in the gambling world. I bet the ball boy is rolling through his neighborhood with shiny new chrome plated rims every other week.

 

[Double Barrel]

I dont know man. Either way it just doesnt make sense that whoever this person works for that they would alter footballs without direction from someone.

Is this Bane who just wants to see the world burn? Whoever it is, im sure they care about being the caretaker of the gameballs. I doubt they would do something this weird/random and potentially jeopardize their gig.

It's bizarre, man. You nailed it when this news first leaked last week. The organization itself is going to take a reputation hit regardless of who is or is not at fault.

But yeah, I honestly don't see a 'locker-room attendant' going rogue and messing with game balls on his own. It could be the case, maybe he heard Brady talk about his preference a few years ago and decided to act on his own, but that really seems far-fetched in the big scheme of things.

They might not be able to pin this on anyone of consequence, but like you said, there is no way to avoid tainting their legacy of success for the past decade.

 

[Playoffs]

I think Kraft had specific intent in his statement that he read...

“If the Wells investigation is not able to definitively determine that our organization tampered with the air pressure in the footballs, I would expect and hope that the League would apologize to our entire team and in particular, Coach Belichick and Tom Brady for what they have had to endure this past week. I am disappointed in the way this entire matter has been handled and reported upon. We expect hard facts as opposed to circumstantial leaked evidence to drive the conclusion of this investigation.

Goodell made a statement a while back about a policy change that the league would no longer require "a smoking gun" to conclude that a wrong has been done and a team should be disciplined. "Ignorance is not a defense" I believe was part of it.

I think Kraft's wording was specifically informing Godell that that standard will not fly with the Patriots in this instance. JMO. Which tells me the Patriot's investigation found no smoking gun. If a guy takes a bag of footballs into a bathroom for two minutes and there's no camera in the bathroom... prove it!

Additional note: I've seen a couple of videos and heard a few people testing how long it would take to drop 2 lbs. PSI from an NFL football and it was basically as fast as you can insert one of those needles up to the neck and remove it... literally ~2 seconds.

 

[Playoffs]

William Zajc, another Columbia physicist who was aware of the request by Reisner, said that he was tempted to field the questions because of all the flawed physics discussions he had seen in news media reports.

“I’m amused,” Zajc said of the query. But in the end, he said, “I didn’t do it.”

Zajc said he believed there was little chance that atmospheric effects alone could account for the discrepancies in the football pressure.

“I think it’s more likely than not that they were manipulated,” Zajc said.

Robert Kirshner, a cosmologist at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics in Cambridge, Mass., said that after the news conference on Saturday, Belichick would not receive invitations to give physics seminars anytime soon.

“I think Belichick is better at keeping pressure on the passer than passing a physics test,” Kirshner said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/28/s...ts-deflated-footballs.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1

 

[infantrycak]

Goodell made a statement a while back about a policy change that the league would no longer require "a smoking gun" to conclude that a wrong has been done and a team should be disciplined. "Ignorance is not a defense" I believe was part of it.

I think Kraft's wording was specifically informing Godell that that standard will not fly with the Patriots in this instance. JMO. Which tells me the Patriot's investigation found no smoking gun. If a guy takes a bag of footballs into a bathroom for two minutes and there's no camera in the bathroom... prove it!

Don't have a link for support but I believe the league approved the change in policy to the lower burden in which case Kraft can play that card with the public but not the league.

 

[Playoffs]

Don't have a link for support but I believe the league approved the change in policy to the lower burden in which case Kraft can play that card with the public but not the league.

Suppose NFL fines Patriots $1 million and takes away their 2015 1st round draft pick and suspends Belichick for 4 games... wouldn't Kraft have some viable legal options?

 

[infantrycak]

Suppose NFL fines Patriots $1 million and takes away their 2015 1st round draft pick and suspends Belichick for 4 games... wouldn't Kraft have some viable legal options?

Totally depends on the wording of the league documents. They've done all those things before.

 

[Playoffs]

They've done all those things before.

Yeah, but I think Kraft recognized then they were in the wrong. I get the impression he believes there's an explanation here and you can't prove otherwise. Would it ever go to preponderance of the evidence, battle of experts legal situation?

 

[infantrycak]

Yeah, but I think Kraft recognized then they were in the wrong. I get the impression he believes there's an explanation here and you can't prove otherwise. Would it ever go to preponderance of the evidence, battle of experts legal situation?

Basically it is entirely controlled by their documents, process and all. The courts only get involved when the claim is they are violating their documents/process - like if the dispute was the commissioner has no authority to take away draft picks. I believe the NFL's internal process allows for the use of experts. Pretty sure Cushing presented some expert testimony to the league in his appeal.

 

[bah007]

There's no hard proof but it seems pretty obvious to me that this locker room attendant made changes to the balls under orders from someone in the Patriots' organization.

As long as he toes the party line I'm sure he will be handsomely rewarded for taking the fall. Without his honest cooperation the league has no way of definitively proving anything other than that he's the one who was in possession of the footballs.

Of course the Patriots are going to cooperate with the investigation and be forthcoming with anything they "find", because this rouge attendant "acted on his own" and just likes to change the pressure of one team's footballs every so often as a prank.

 

[Brisco_County]

I think Kraft had specific intent in his statement that he read...

Yes, but I believe his primary intent is to preserve his relationship with his coach and QB until he is forced to no longer support them. By demanding a smoking gun, it keeps him out of any grey areas regarding his loyalty.

 

[ObsiWan]

There's no hard proof but it seems pretty obvious to me that this locker room attendant made changes to the balls under orders from someone in the Patriots' organization.

As long as he toes the party line I'm sure he will be handsomely rewarded for taking the fall. Without his honest cooperation the league has no way of definitively proving anything other than that he's the one who was in possession of the footballs.

Of course the Patriots are going to cooperate with the investigation and be forthcoming with anything they "find", because this rouge attendant "acted on his own" and just likes to change the pressure of one team's footballs every so often as a prank.

Agent Belichick won't let the guy talk

[imgwidthsize=300]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/3664335/matrix-mouth-1-o.gif[/IMG]

 

[Playoffs]

Blake: Every team deflates footballs

PHOENIX -- Former NFL quarterback Jeff Blake says he oversaw the deflation of footballs on the sideline right before games during his career. Speaking on "The Midday 180" out of Nashville, Blake said the practice was common.

Jeff Blake played for seven NFL teams, including the Bears during his final season (2005).

"I'm just going to let the cat of the bag, every team does it, every game, it has been since I played," Blake said. "'Cause when you take the balls out of the bag, they are rock hard. And you can't feel the ball as well. It's too hard. Everybody puts the pin in and lets just enough air out of the ball that you can feel it a little better. But it's not the point to where it's flat.

"So I don't know what the big deal is. It's not something that's not been done for 20 years."

Many other NFL quarterbacks have said the opposite, that they've never messed with the inflation of a ball or seen anyone do so. The topic has come to the forefront with the New England Patriots being investigated by the NFL due to allegations the team used underinflated footballs in the first half of the AFC Championship Game against the Indianapolis Colts.

Asked to be specific about the timing of deflation, Blake said it regularly happened as soon as quarterbacks got the balls before the game.

"As soon as they give them the balls," Blake said. "On the sideline before the game. The quarterbacks would come out to warm up in pregame ... I would just say, 'Take a little bit out, it's a little bit hard.' And then they'd take a little bit out and I'd squeeze them and say 'That's perfect, that's it.'"

Blake played for seven teams in 13 seasons, starting 100 games. His longest tenure was six seasons with Cincinnati.

His last year was 2005, so during his career when his team was on the road, Blake would not have handled the footballs until pregame.

In 2006, NFL quarterbacks successfully got the NFL to change the rules and allow each team to provide its own balls for games, which would then be turned over to officials before the game.

 

[disaacks3]

Paul Kuharsky ‏@PaulKuharskyNFL
Jeff Blake on @Midday180 says everybody puts in needle in and deflates footballs a bit, "on the sideline before the game." Wasn't big deal.

Blake said he'd give a ball to ball boy, say "take a little air out," he would and Blake would say "it's perfect."

Maybe the 56% career completion guy should've left well enough alone.

 

[ObsiWan]

Like I said, much ado about nothing.

 

[Playoffs]

On Tuesday’s PFT Live on NBC Sports Radio, for example, I inserted a needle for a few seconds into a ball that had been inflated to 13.5 PSI. A loud hiss emerged, and when the needle was removed it was easier to squeeze the ball. It became clear to me then that, if someone wanted to deflate 10-12 balls in 90 seconds, it would indeed be possible.

Gersh Kuntzman of the New York Daily News performed a more organized test, taking 12 balls that had been inflated to 13 PSI and removed two PSI in a total of 40 seconds. Adding in the time necessary to open the bag and to access the balls and to enter and exit the bathroom, the exercise took 77 seconds.

Kuntzman isn’t the only one who has done it. One highly-placed official with an NFL team “took the top off” a dozen balls in a mere 56 seconds...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/28/its-easy-to-quickly-deflate-a-football/

 

[Brisco_County]

Blake: Every team deflates footballs

His claim is irrelevant until he can say that they were regularly deflated outside of spec, which allows a tolerance of one pound.

This issue is a matter of two pounds (16%) below minimum. That's a big deal.

 

[Texecutioner]

His claim is irrelevant until he can say that they were regularly deflated outside of spec, which allows a tolerance of one pound.

This issue is a matter of two pounds (16%) below minimum. That's a big deal.

Why is it? Once again we have more evidence of QB's coming out stating that this is widespread as can be, but yet people still want to pound on the Patriots for it, because they've won a lot. This is one of the silliest sports stories of all time.

 

[infantrycak]

Why is it? Once again we have more evidence of QB's coming out stating that this is widespread as can be, but yet people still want to pound on the Patriots for it, because they've won a lot. This is one of the silliest sports stories of all time.

Real simple. Assuming others played with pressure, they didn't regularly go outside the allowed amount. In a typical game 0-2 balls out of 24 are out of spec after the game. 11 of 12 at half is a whole different deal.

Also back when Blake was playing the process was different.

 

[Texecutioner]

Real simple. Assuming others played with pressure, they didn't regularly go outside the allowed amount. In a typical game 0-2 balls out of 24 are out of spec after the game. 11 of 12 at half is a whole different deal.

Also back when Blake was playing the process was different.

I'm glad you saw this right away as I was hoping you'd come in here and blow it all off as circumstantial history that has no relevance. You're so predictable. Just more information which once again indicates what I initially stated in the other thread. You can denounce this information and whatever comes in the future from other QB's, but it won't change the fact that this what QB's around the league do and have done for a really long time.

 

[infantrycak]

Typical obfuscation rather than deal with the facts. Nothing circumstantial about it. Other teams haven't done it to this degree. There's the difference why the Patriots are being treated separately.

 

[JB]

Typical obfuscation rather than deal with the facts. Nothing circumstantial about it. Other teams haven't done it to this degree. There's the difference why the Patriots are being treated separately.

Key sentence right there

 

[ObsiWan]

Key sentence right there

Yep, it sure is key.
How much actual data do we have on other teams? How many, documented, occurrences of refs going back at half time and rechecking the air pressure in the balls.
I'm not saying they don't/haven't but I haven't seen any articles/quotes (from Mike Pereira for example) that indicate that re-checking air pressure at half time (or any time after the pre-game verification) is standard operating procedure for each and every game.

Without that actual, historical data, this is a witch hunt.

 

[infantrycak]

Yep, it sure is key.
How much actual data do we have on other teams? How many, documented, occurrences of refs going back at half time and rechecking the air pressure in the balls.
I'm not saying they don't/haven't but I haven't seen any articles/quotes (from Mike Pereira for example) that indicate that re-checking air pressure at half time (or any time after the pre-game verification) is standard operating procedure for each and every game.

Without that actual, historical data, this is a witch hunt.

Not halftime, after the game they check (which makes the contrast worse) and Pereira said on TV that they ordinarily have 0-2 balls that are not in spec at the end of games. I think the way he phrased it was it isn't unusual to have 1-2 balls out of spec at the end of games but a lot of the time they have none. This kind of deviation is totally outside the norm.

 

[Brisco_County]

Why is it? Once again we have more evidence of QB's coming out stating that this is widespread as can be, but yet people still want to pound on the Patriots for it, because they've won a lot. This is one of the silliest sports stories of all time.

By my count, which is probably off, it's two QB's. Even if it's five or ten, have any of them asserted that footballs were routinely deflated significantly below the minimum? We're not talking about a reasonable customization, we're talking about cheating.

Yep, it sure is key.
How much actual data do we have on other teams? How many, documented, occurrences of refs going back at half time and rechecking the air pressure in the balls.
I'm not saying they don't/haven't but I haven't seen any articles/quotes (from Mike Pereira for example) that indicate that re-checking air pressure at half time (or any time after the pre-game verification) is standard operating procedure for each and every game.

Without that actual, historical data, this is a witch hunt.

Because you never have opposing players alerting refs to a tampered football.

You also never have 11 out of 12 footballs out of spec while the opposing team has none.

Witch hunts are based solely on accusations. It was empirical facts that sparked this scandal.

And remember, the deflation does not just benefit the QB, it affects the turnover ratio of ball carriers.

I understand what it's like to watch a brushfire of moral outrage sweep a mass of people over matters inconsequential or out of context. It's the oldest con in media and politics. I'm usually the skeptic in these matters, because the media is so ethically corrupt that it has turned me into a default cynic. I had even thought the reaction to Spygate had been exaggerated, and if anything, found it amusing. I've held my tongue over the past seven years while one of my closest friends would froth at the mouth over Bill Belichick being a cheater. I thought my friend was just one among many targeting the Patriots because they win. I thought the Patriots were overall good for the league.

But now I see that my friend was right. This issue turned me. Belichick was not just flirting with the boundary between innovation and cheating, he made a flying leap over it. It validates every interpretation of Belichick's actions as an institutional cheater.

So I understand why you guys disagree, but for me, the data now paints a different picture.

 

[ObsiWan]

By my count, which is probably off, it's two QB's. Even if it's five or ten, have any of them asserted that footballs were routinely deflated significantly below the minimum? We're not talking about a reasonable customization, we're talking about cheating.



Because you never have opposing players alerting refs to a tampered football.

You also never have 11 out of 12 footballs out of spec while the opposing team has none.

Witch hunts are based solely on accusations. It was empirical facts that sparked this scandal.

And remember, the deflation does not just benefit the QB, it affects the turnover ratio of ball carriers.

I understand what it's like to watch a brushfire of moral outrage sweep a mass of people over matters inconsequential or out of context. It's the oldest con in media and politics. I'm usually the skeptic in these matters, because the media is so ethically corrupt that it has turned me into a default cynic. I had even thought the reaction to Spygate had been exaggerated, and if anything, found it amusing. I've held my tongue over the past seven years while one of my closest friends would froth at the mouth over Bill Belichick being a cheater. I thought my friend was just one among many targeting the Patriots because they win. I thought the Patriots were overall good for the league.

But now I see that my friend was right. This issue turned me. Belichick was not just flirting with the boundary between innovation and cheating, he made a flying leap over it. It validates every interpretation of Belichick's actions as an institutional cheater.

So I understand why you guys disagree, but for me, the data now paints a different picture.

My "witch hunt" reference was pointed at the folks that want to say this is an continuing "procedure" by the Pats which has been on-going for 4-5-6 years. The league has them (the Pats) dead to rights on this one instance, but to extrapolate one data point (which all one game is) into a practice that has been in the works for half a decade is a bit much. It's like someone seeing you drunk, one time, and then going on to extrapolate that you're an alcoholic.

 

[Double Barrel]

Giants long snapper (and former Patriots ball boy) weighs in on Deflategate

As a former ball boy and as an NFL long snapper who handles footballs on every down, we asked DeOssie if reducing an NFL football by a couple psi would have an effect on the game.

“No I don’t believe it would,” he said. “Except maybe a ball that’s been kept in a closet for years and you know, you pull it out and it’s eight pounds, six pounds inflated, that’s when you can tell the difference. But two pounds of air is minuscule and, in my opinion, it doesn’t make a difference in terms of throwing and catching.

“I think the only people who can truly tell the difference are kickers and punters, and they’re using different balls than quarterbacks use … When they boot the ball, they are hitting it with such force … they might be able to tell the difference upon impact. But I mean, we’re talking about how many G-forces there. They’ve kicked so many balls, and that compression really makes all the difference. But when it comes to throwing and catching, in my opinion, it makes no difference.

Source

 

[Marshall]

Valid questions. Also, they dont include domed teams, the fact that Pats run alot of offensive plays compared to avg and its fairly well known that if you fumble as a Patriot RB you are immediately forsaken to the bench.

That is not unusual. But the statistics say it is more.

 

[Playoffs]

Joe Montana: Of course Brady was behind DeflateGate

“If I ever want a ball a certain way, I don’t do it myself,” Montana said, via the Boston Globe. “So, somebody did it for him. But I don’t know why everybody is making a big deal out of trying to figure out who did it. It’s pretty simple. If it was done, it was done for a reason.”

Montana doesn’t seem to think deflated footballs are a big deal, but he also doesn’t think the Patriots’ footballs would have become deflated in the AFC Championship Game for any reason other than Brady wanting someone to do it.

“I mean, it’s easy to figure out who did it,” Montana said. “Did Tom do it? No, but Tom likes the balls that way, obviously, or you wouldn’t have 11 of them that way without him complaining, because as a quarterback, you know how you like the ball. If it doesn’t feel like that, something is wrong. It’s a stupid thing to even be talking about because they shouldn’t have the rule anyway. If you want to see the game played at the best, everybody has a different grip, everybody likes a different feel.”

 

[Brisco_County]

Joe Montana: Of course Brady was behind DeflateGate

...they shouldn’t have the rule anyway. If you want to see the game played at the best, everybody has a different grip, everybody likes a different feel.”

He's overlooking the grip advantage given to ball carriers.

My personal opinion is that the league wants the balls to be inflated to a certain pressure to allow a certain rate of fumbling. Turnovers are exciting, and it gives defenders more of a chance to influence the game.

 

[ObsiWan]

He's overlooking the grip advantage given to ball carriers.

My personal opinion is that the league wants the balls to be inflated to a certain pressure to allow a certain rate of fumbling. Turnovers are exciting, and it gives defenders more of a chance to influence the game.

Has anyone interviewed any RBs to see if they care if the pressure is high or low or if they even notice a difference? Lots of QBs have weighed in but I haven't heard a RB say anything one way or the other. What's their take?

 

[JB]

Has anyone interviewed any RBs to see if they care if the pressure is high or low or if they even notice a difference? Lots of QBs have weighed in but I haven't heard a RB say anything one way or the other. What's their take?

Takin' the fifth man...

 

[ChampionTexan]

Has anyone interviewed any RBs to see if they care if the pressure is high or low or if they even notice a difference? Lots of QBs have weighed in but I haven't heard a RB say anything one way or the other. What's their take?

When Mark Brunell and Jerome Bettis did their blind test fairly early on, Bettis referred to an underinflated ball as not making much difference as a pass catcher, but making a "huge difference" as a ball carrier in the form of making the ball easier to hold on to/harder to pry out.

Here's the entire segment - the part I referenced is at about the 2:20 mark.

link

 

[JB]

When Mark Brunell and Jerome Bettis did their blind test fairly early on, Bettis referred to an underinflated ball as not making much difference as a pass catcher, but making a "huge difference" as a ball carrier in the form of making the ball easier to hold on to/harder to pry out.

Here's the entire segment - the part I referenced is at about the 2:20 mark.

link

Not very trusting of the video (being ESPN, not that you posted it) but even playing sandlot ball you could tell a softer ball was easier to hold and catch.

I preferred a harder ball to throw to get a tighter spiral

 

[Marshall]

Suppose NFL fines Patriots $1 million and takes away their 2015 1st round draft pick and suspends Belichick for 4 games... wouldn't Kraft have some viable legal options?

Not if they are parties to an agreement which includes these penalties by contract or an alternate binding arbitration procedure for these penalties. Such language is usually part of the paperwork involved in joining the league.

The question then is if the penalty was arbitrary and capricious. And we all know Goddell IS arbitrary and capricious. But he won't give more than a token penalty to his friends and fair haired boys.

ps Sorry. I'm repeating much of what Cak has already said. I just can't stop replying before completing the thread.