All encompassing Rick Smith thread

[steelbtexan]

Wasn't the discussion. The discussion was backloaded contracts.

And I don't have flat rules on age. Manning (and Brady) is defying conventional wisdom on age and that doesn't stop you from complaining about not getting him.



Those are substantially better stats for Schaub.



Agreed.

Huge difference brtween QB's who can usually play well in late 30's/40. Than Wr's and RB's. Wr's lose speed and they become WR2's at best. RB's are usually done by 32. You know this and are being argumentative.

Better but not substantially better.

Agreed

 

[infantrycak]

Huge difference brtween QB's who can usually play well in late 30's/40. Than Wr's and RB's. Wr's lose speed and they become WR2's at best. RB's are usually done by 32. You know this and are being argumentative.

I have a very long track record of saying individual players should be judged rather than age rules. If that is being argumentative, then so be it.

 

[JB]

I have a very long track record of saying individual players should be judged rather than age rules. If that is being argumentative, then so be it.

co signed by George Blanda

 

[TEXANRED]

Fact, the biggest need on the roster was not addressed this offseason- I'm sure he was talking about the qb position, but it being the biggest need is his opinion, and it appears the team did not agree with that.

Fact, the 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 draft classes are awful.- His opinion

Fact, Rick Smith has signed 1 good free agent in 8 off-seasons. (JJo) - his opinion

Fact, Rick Smith passed on Manning and extended Schaub's contract.- we don't know for a fact whose decision was made here

edit: The kitten was to show I agree with most of his opinions while recognizing they are not facts

2009 Draft:

Brian Cushing - Only player still on the team from this draft
Conner Barwin
Anthony Caldwell
Glover Quin
Anthony Hill
James Casey
Brice McCain
Troy Nolan

2010 Draft:

KJ - Still on the team
Ben Tate
Earl Mitchell
Darryl Sharpton
Garrett Graham - still on the team
Sherrick McManis
Shelley Smith
Trindon Holiday
Dorin Dickerson

2011 Draft:

JJ Watt
Brooks Reed
Brandon Harris
Rashad Carmichael
Shiloh Keo
TJ Yates
Derek Newton
Cheta Ozougwu

*highlighted indicates still on the team

2012 Draft:

Whitney Mercilus
DeVier Posey
Brandon Brooks
Ben Jones
Keyshawn Martin
Jared Crick
Randy Bullock
Nick Mondek

2013 Draft:

DeAndre Hopkins
DJ Swearinger
Brennan Williams
Sam Montgomery
Trevardo Williams
David Quessenberry
Alan Bonner
Chris Jones
Ryan Griffin

2012 is the best of this disaster of draft picks and that is not really saying much. (we need 53 players to fill out a roster, right?)

I still blame Rick Smith for Manning. He is the man with the final say on those types of things. This is how the conversation should have went down: "Hey Kubiak, guess what? I just got you one of the greatest players to ever play the game to come and play QB for you. You're welcome."

Who other than JJo would you say Rick Smith has signed that was worth a damn? Jacques Reeves?

If they did not consider QB as their top priority then everybody should be fired and Reliant, or NRG, or whatever they are calling that place where my hopes and dreams go to die is called, should be razed. (Now this of course is just my opinion.

 

[JB]

2009 Draft:

Brian Cushing - Only player still on the team from this draft
Conner Barwin- starter
Anthony Caldwell
Glover Quin- starter
Anthony Hill
James Casey-key contributer
Brice McCain- started last week
Troy Nolan

2010 Draft:

KJ - Still on the team
Ben Tate- starter
Earl Mitchell-starter?
Darryl Sharpton
Garrett Graham - still on the team
Sherrick McManis
Shelley Smith
Trindon Holiday
Dorin Dickerson

2011 Draft:

JJ Watt
Brooks Reed
Brandon Harris
Rashad Carmichael
Shiloh Keo
TJ Yates-backup
Derek Newton
Cheta Ozougwu

*highlighted indicates still on the team

2012 Draft:

Whitney Mercilus
DeVier Posey
Brandon Brooks
Ben Jones
Keyshawn Martin
Jared Crick
Randy Bullock
Nick Mondek

2013 Draft:

DeAndre Hopkins
DJ Swearinger
Brennan Williams
Sam Montgomery
Trevardo Williams
David Quessenberry
Alan Bonner
Chris Jones
Ryan Griffin

2012 is the best of this disaster of draft picks and that is not really saying much. (we need 53 players to fill out a roster, right?)

I still blame Rick Smith for Manning. He is the man with the final say on those types of things. This is how the conversation should have went down: "Hey Kubiak, guess what? I just got you one of the greatest players to ever play the game to come and play QB for you. You're welcome."

Who other than JJo would you say Rick Smith has signed that was worth a damn? Jacques Reeves?

If they did not consider QB as their top priority then everybody should be fired and Reliant, or NRG, or whatever they are calling that place where my hopes and dreams go to die is called, should be razed. (Now this of course is just my opinion.

If you check my posts, I said I didn't disagree with you, they are not facts however, but opinions

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Schaub 2010
Comp % - 63.6%
TD % - 4.2%
INT % - 2.1%
Y / ATT - 7.6
Y / COMP - 12.0
QBR - 57.8

Fitzpatrick 2014
Comp % - 63.4
TD % - 4.0
INT % - 3.1
Y / ATT - 7.7
Y / COMP - 12.2
QBR - 48.9


And no, I'm not being serious, just having fun with stats. I think you meant 2009 Schaub, in which case you are certainly right about him being an upgrade, but I'm still not sure we're a SB team. The fact is you need borderline elite QB play to win a SB these days and the Texans have never had a guy like that.

Just look at the Bengals. They have one of the best constructed rosters in the league and can't even sniff a SB because of their QB. The Ravens had a great roster when they won and, whole Flacco is not elite, he played like it in those Playoffs.

The simple fact is, this team is not competing for a SB until they find a QB.

First off, I disagree that you need a borderline elite QB to win a SB in this league. I don't consider Russell Wilson, Eli Manning, or Joe Flacco borderline elite. Sure, Eli and Flacco got hot at just the right time but those guys are not close to being elite. And Roethlisberger won a SB even though he was horrible.

So I'm totally not on board with the myth of needing a borderline elite QB to win a SB in this day and age ESPECIALLY in this day and age.

Second off, I'll stand by what I said about Schaub in 2010 over the Fitzpatrick of today. I was NOT talking about 2009. I was talking about the 6-10 era of Schaub.

That Schaub threw for over 4300 yards with 24 TDs and 12 INTs. He engineered several late game drives that would have won games if the defense had held up.

I think that Schaub on THIS team would have us possibly undefeated at this point.

Fitzpatrick is on pace for 3500 yards with 18 TDs and 14 INTs. He is not winning games for us and I believe he's the difference that's costing us games.

 

[amazing80]

If you are going to rant about AJ's contract, at least use correct information. AJ is not making 46 million over the next couple of seasons...for 2014 through 2016 he makes $31.5 million.

Brandon Flowers got a 1 year deal, not a 5 year deal. Yes it was $3 million upfront gtd but it has up to another $2 million in incentives built into the deal. Clearly with all the salary dumping the team has done this year, there was not enough cap space for a Flower's contract.

The many restructuring of AJ's contract has made it very difficult I will agree. I don't think Rick back loaded very many contracts; but he used the tactic of large signing bonuses on contracts which leaves a lot of dead money on contracts. I think he and Chris Olsen have learned their lesson on that (as have many other GM's) method. Go look at JJ's contract, after 2017 it has very little dead money. Actually it has very little dead money after 2015, but his upcoming guaranteed salaries in 2016 & 2017 would be trade-able. Just an example, not saying we trade him. But I think JJ's contract is a clear example of a good contract that doesn't have large consequences 5 years from now.

The cap situation does look better for 2015 and beyond, not $60 million Oakland style but it has some room to work with.

Including this year he is over 46 million and I meant 5 million dollar deal with 3 million guaranteed on a year deal for flowers. I mistyped.

 

[TEXANRED]

If you check my posts, I said I didn't disagree with you, they are not facts however, but opinions

I gottcha.

 

[dream_team]

OK:

Fact, 1 year removed from the 2013 draft and only 2 players are on the roster.

First of all, it's 3 (Hopkins, Swearinger, Griffin). I also assume you mean on the "active" roster, as Bonner and Quess are still under team control.

Fact, the biggest need on the roster was not addressed this offseason

That's your opinion. I assume you mean QB, and we have two young guys w/ potential (Mallet & Savage). Just because we didn't spend a high pick on a QB, doesn't mean we didn't try to address the position. IMO, I'd rather draft the right guy, rather than spending a high pick simply on need.

Fact, the 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 draft classes are awful.

More opinions, not facts. I know we all want Rick to hit homeruns on every pick, but that doesn't happen in the NFL.

Fact, Texans have been short on cash since signing Manning and Joseph. So much so we went from having one of the best offensive lines in 2011 to cutting two starters from that line and never finding their replacements.

I like Brandon Brooks, I think he's going to be a pro-bowler in this league someday. And cutting Winston was the right move... he was making more than he was worth. He couldn't even make a team this season.

Fact, 7 drafts have produced 4 pro-bowlers.

I would say 4.5, as Casey actually made a pro bowl as an alternate.

This also fails to mention the free-agent pro-bowlers than Rick has acquired other than the draft... Jonathan Joseph, Wade Smith, Arian Foster, Vonta Leach, Matt Schaub, Antonio Smith, Chris Myers. Braman & Manning also made it as alternates.

Fact, Glover Quin, Barwin, Winston, Brisiel, Ryans, Leach, OD, Antonio Smith, Mario Williams, have all been cut, traded, released, or not re-signed. That is 10 out of 22 starters that were all on our team in 2011. That is 10 starters that Smith has yet to replace with quality players.

Fact, Rick Smith has signed 1 good free agent in 8 off-seasons. (JJo)

No love for the Ninja? Technically, Arian was a free agent. The same goes for Brisel. Was Wade Smith a FA, or a trade?

Fact, Rick Smith passed on Manning and extended Schaub's contract.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn't it? Sure, everyone in the Texans organization would like to go back in time and sign Manning... but he was a HUGE risk. I admit, I didn't think that risk was worth the gamble when we already had a decent QB on the team. We were already up against the cap, so we'd have to cut some guys to make room for him. Then we'd have to pray that the rumors on his lack of arm strength were false. Then we'd have to hope his neck would hold up.

Fact, combined with horrific draft history, inability to manage the cap, and poor FA evaluations, it has left the Texans bare in talent and depth.

Your opinion. In my opinion, we are more talented than majority of the teams in the NFL. I agree our depth isn't great though.

 

[Marshall]

Because we really didn't NEED a qb until last season.[/QUOte

Texans front office should of drafted Blake B from UCF. Clowney had such a history of taking plays off and injury.

I suppose this garbage will continue about as long as the hurt over taking Williams over Vince Young. It doesn't matter that the alternatives failed, just that you HOPED they would be a success here and were disappointed when you didn't get a QB of your liking. By the way, if we had taken your QB, he'd be garbage as fast as his first turnover.

 

[Marshall]

I have a very long track record of saying individual players should be judged rather than age rules. If that is being argumentative, then so be it.

But the same problem applies as to draft picks. Which guys play above expectations and which do not. The answer is clairvoyance, not skill. Injuries take out the best prospects and some marginal prospects thrive where is shouldn't be expected. Teams get lucky, like us getting Watt. But I've seen no evidence that anyone has an edge in forecasting success much beyond pure chance.

 

[Marshall]

If you check my posts, I said I didn't disagree with you, they are not facts however, but opinions

Some people do not appreciate the distinction in our present culture where facts are what you want them to be rather than objective and independently verifiable.

 

[Troy Chapman]

Including this year he is over 46 million and I meant 5 million dollar deal with 3 million guaranteed on a year deal for flowers. I mistyped.

News flash, a player's cap charge each year is not what he is "making" or getting paid. You are getting your $46 million number for AJ's 2014 through 2016 salary cap charges....which is incorrect. His P5 salary for 2014 through 2016 is $10, $10.5m, and $11m respectively. Like I said earlier please use correct information.

 

[steelbtexan]

But the same problem applies as to draft picks. Which guys play above expectations and which do not. The answer is clairvoyance, not skill. Injuries take out the best prospects and some marginal prospects thrive where is shouldn't be expected. Teams get lucky, like us getting Watt. But I've seen no evidence that anyone has an edge in forecasting success much beyond pure chance.

Well we might as well hire a monkey to throw darts at a draft board if you subscribe to this theory. I'm sure you can get a monkey to work for less the a mil a yr.

I know this, there are several in the draft section that would do a much better job drafting talent than the Texans org has since their inception. Looking at you BL/Bah/WF/BB and they hold down full time jobs. This is just a hobby to them and they don't have anywhere near the resources that the Texans org has to evaluate players. Kinda sad if you can open your mind and truly think about it.

 

[steelbtexan]

Some people do not appreciate the distinction in our present culture where facts are what you want them to be rather than objective and independently verifiable.

What does this mean?

What is your definition of objective?

Verifiable? The Texans org is deliberately structured so nothing is verifiable and this is a brilliant strategy. Unfortunately this strategy also leads to 2-14 suckage and medicore GM's hanging around much longer than they should.

But really why should McNair care? He's a businessman 1st and foremost and is making $$$$ hand over fist and as long as this continues to happen you can expect the same results. Unless the Texans get lucky and Savage turns into a modern version of Brady/Manning.

You want facts: Fact Bob McNair is to blame for the mess that has been the on the field product. He has hired the people that have produced these results.

There is very littl

 

[Troy Chapman]

Well we might as well hire a monkey to throw darts at a draft board if you subscribe to this theory. I'm sure you can get a monkey to work for less the a mil a yr.

I know this, there are several in the draft section that would do a much better job drafting talent than the Texans org has since their inception. Looking at you BL/Bah/WF/BB and they hold down full time jobs. This is just a hobby to them and they don't have anywhere near the resources that the Texans org has to evaluate players. Kinda sad if you can open your mind and truly think about it.

Just out of curiosity, who do you feel are the Top 5 GM's in the NFL at the moment?

 

[Marcus]

And you call me bitter?

Dude, comparitively speaking, I'm happy as a f'king clam, and you need to find yourself sport to follow.

 

[infantrycak]

But the same problem applies as to draft picks. Which guys play above expectations and which do not. The answer is clairvoyance, not skill. Injuries take out the best prospects and some marginal prospects thrive where is shouldn't be expected. Teams get lucky, like us getting Watt. But I've seen no evidence that anyone has an edge in forecasting success much beyond pure chance.

Yeah, it ain't that hard.

1206, 1201, 1506 yds in seasons 28 - 30 years old. Not a done WR - and he went on to seasons of 1499, 1848, 1254 when 31-34.

AJ's - 1350 (scaled for injury), 1598, 1407 in seasons 28-30.

"Ordinary" doesn't apply to extraordinary players.

 

[steelbtexan]

Just out of curiosity, who do you feel are the Top 5 GM's in the NFL at the moment?

1.Newsome- Ravens
2. Elway
3.Schnieder- Seahawks
4.Kiem- (SP?)- Arizona
5. Dorsey- K.C.
6. Belichick- N.E.
7. Telesco- S.D
8. Thompson-GB
9. Banner-Philly
10. Reese- NYG

I went even deeper and gave you my top 10. I put GM's that started out without a QB and traded/Drafed/F/A and foud a QB higher than GM's that inherited/fell into franchise QB's.

 

[steelbtexan]

And you call me bitter?

Dude, comparitively speaking, I'm happy as a f'king clam, and you need to find yourself sport to follow.

Not bitter, looking forward to spending time with the family/friends at Nrg this Sunday. I just wish the Ownership were as committed to winning as the fanbase is committed to the franchise.

I'm just giving my opinion of the current state of the Texans org. I know koolaid drinkers disagree. But more and more of them are beginning to see the light and realize what the McNair's are all about.

 

[santo]

Not bitter, looking forward to spending time with the family/friends at Nrg this Sunday. I just wish the Ownership were as committed to winning as the fanbase is committed to the franchise.

I'm just giving my opinion of the current state of the Texans org. I know koolaid drinkers disagree. But more and more of them are beginning to see the light and realize what the McNair's are all about.

I think he is committed to winning. The bad thing is he doesn't know how to attract or scout the good GM's who can therefore hire the scouts that can evaluate better talent.

 

[CoreyG]

1.Newsome- Ravens
2. Elway
3.Schnieder- Seahawks
4.Kiem- (SP?)- Arizona
5. Dorsey- K.C.
6. Belichick- N.E.
7. Telesco- S.D
8. Thompson-GB
9. Banner-Philly
10. Reese- NYG

I went even deeper and gave you my top 10. I put GM's that started out without a QB and traded/Drafed/F/A and foud a QB higher than GM's that inherited/fell into franchise QB's.

Love how you list Philly, when 15% of Philly's roster is former Texans that Smith drafted.

Oh boy.

Smith drafted JJ Watt(sure Wade helped him), and that reason alone should give him some credentials.

 

[Troy Chapman]

1.Newsome- Ravens
2. Elway
3.Schnieder- Seahawks
4.Kiem- (SP?)- Arizona
5. Dorsey- K.C.
6. Belichick- N.E.
7. Telesco- S.D
8. Thompson-GB
9. Banner-Philly
10. Reese- NYG

I went even deeper and gave you my top 10. I put GM's that started out without a QB and traded/Drafed/F/A and foud a QB higher than GM's that inherited/fell into franchise QB's.

Good list. Does Newsome get the same Rick Smith criticism (Cushing contract) for giving Pitta a big contract coming off injury, then getting a second major injury after the contract? For the record, I do think Newsome is a solid GM.

Elway has definitely gone for the jugular, will be interesting to see how it affects them 2-3 years from now with their salary cap. He did inherit a well drafted young roster though; but his 2011 draft was outstanding.

Not sure I would put Dorsey in there (yet); but I see you put him there basically for getting Alex Smith. Dorsey came to the Chiefs in 2013 and also inherited a good roster. Would you have given two second round picks for Alex Smith? I wasn't a big fan of the contract given this year to Smith, I understand why just didn't like the terms of the deal.

 

[TheIronDuke]

Love how you list Philly, when 15% of Philly's roster is former Texans that Smith drafted.

Oh boy.

Smith drafted JJ Watt(sure Wade helped him), and that reason alone should give him some credentials.

I count 3 players on the Eagles that Smith drafted and I'm even counting Braman.

Casey, Barwin, Braman. 2/3 of them are JAG's and Barwin is Barwin.

Edit: Guess you can count Maehl too but he was also a UDFA.

 

[CoreyG]

Good list. Does Newsome get the same Rick Smith criticism (Cushing contract) for giving Pitta a big contract coming off injury, after getting a second major injury? For the record, I do think Newsome is a solid GM.

Elway has definitely gone for the jugular, will be interesting to see how it affects them 2-3 years from now.

They will be a completely new team by that time.

Smart GM who gave them future cap flexibility after Peyton leaves.

Elway would be my number one.

 

[Troy Chapman]

I count 3 players on the Eagles that Smith drafted and I'm even counting Braman.

Casey, Barwin, Braman. 2/3 of them are JAG's and Barwin is Barwin.

Edit: Guess you can count Maehl too but he was also a UDFA.

Demeco Ryans was drafted by Houston?

 

[Troy Chapman]

They will be a completely new team by that time.

Smart GM who gave them future cap flexibility after Peyton leaves.

Elway would be my number one.

I haven't fully examined their cap situation post Manning. It's on my list of things to do. But it will be interesting to see how they handle their 2015-2016 free agents: D. Thomas, J. Thomas, V. Miller, T. Knighton, R. Moore, O. Franklin.

 

[infantrycak]

Demeco Ryans was drafted by Houston?

By Kubiak the year before Smith.

 

[Troy Chapman]

By Kubiak the year before Smith.

Doh, thanks.

 

[ObsiWan]

OK:

1. Fact, 1 year removed from the 2013 draft and only 2 players are on the roster.
2. Fact, after a 2-14 season the 2014 draft class full of high round picks have failed to make a significant impact. NOT a fact.
3. Fact, the biggest need on the roster was not addressed this offseason
4. Fact, the 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 draft classes are awful.
5. Fact, Texans have been short on cash since signing Manning and Joseph. So much so we went from having one of the best offensive lines in 2011 to cutting two starters from that line and never finding their replacements.
6. Fact, 7 drafts have produced 4 pro-bowlers.
7. Fact, Glover Quin, Barwin, Winston, Brisiel, Ryans, Leach, OD, Antonio Smith, Mario Williams, have all been cut, traded, released, or not re-signed. That is 10 out of 22 starters that were all on our team in 2011. That is 10 starters that Smith has yet to replace with quality players.
8. Fact, Rick Smith has signed 1 good free agent in 8 off-seasons. (JJo)

9. Fact, Rick Smith passed on Manning and extended Schaub's contract.

10. Fact, combined with horrific draft history, inability to manage the cap, and poor FA evaluations, it has left the Texans bare in talent and depth.

1. Hmmm... I count five. Swearinger, Hopkins, Ryan Griffin, Justin Tuggle, A.J. Bouye. Six if you want to count OG A. Kupper on the P/S. Seven if you haven't given up on Quess making a comeback one day.

2. So Blue making plays on S/T (have you forgotten his blocked punt for a TD??) and resting Foster is not a significant impact? Pagan being in the D-line rotation isn't an impact? J. Prosch lead blocking for Foster isn't a significant impact? In fact, the only non-contributors out of this class are Savage (that's O'Brien's choice) and Nix (on IR). All the other picks have played.
3. Talk to O'Brien. He's the one that said there's not much difference in quality in the top QB prospects and the rest of the 2014 QB field. He brought in one of the guys he rattled off as equivalent prospects so he thinks he HAS addressed it.

"I think the thing is, to me, there's not a lot of separation," O'Brien said when asked if any player was worth of the No. 1 overall pick. "And there are more quarterbacks than just three. Obviously the three guys that everybody talks about -- Blake (Bortles), Teddy (Bridgewater) and Johnny (Manziel). They're good players. They've had great college careers.
"But there are other guys out there. You've got (AJ) McCarron. You've got (Zach) Mettenberger. You've got Logan Thomas. You've got (Tom) Savage. You've got (Jimmy) Garoppolo. I mean, I can go right down the list. To me, you've got 10 to 12 guys you've got to do a great job of evaluating and make the best pick possible wherever you pick these guys.

9. Talk to Bob McNair (LINK) I get the feeling McNair made that call because he thought it would have broken the bank (and we all know how cheap he is). In #7 you whine about how many players we had to let go, how would many others have hit the streets if we had to carry Peyton's salary too?? At least be consistent.

I looked further down the thread and see that dream_team has already knocked down all the rest of your straw men. No need for me to repeat the same points.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

1. Hmmm... I count five. Swearinger, Hopkins, Ryan Griffin, Justin Tuggle, A.J. Bouye. Six if you want to count OG A. Kupper on the P/S. Seven if you haven't given up on Quess making a comeback one day.

Tuggle and Bouye were technically not drafted.

Also, I don't consider Chris Jones a "miss" because although he's not playing for us, he has had considerable playing time in NE. (That still irks me. He was a good draft choice.)

 

[infantrycak]

OK:

1. Fact, 1 year removed from the 2013 draft and only 2 players are on the roster. ...

On top of the points Obsi and others have made to this post, this analysis of "on the roster" isn't realistic as a whole. Even assuming your Smith has control of the draft theory, GMs get players on the roster, coaches keep them there for the most part. Many of the players drafted are still in the NFL. For example Chris Jones who is now a starter in NE. I don't think that counts as a GM failure.

 

[amazing80]

News flash, a player's cap charge each year is not what he is "making" or getting paid. You are getting your $46 million number for AJ's 2014 through 2016 salary cap charges....which is incorrect. His P5 salary for 2014 through 2016 is $10, $10.5m, and $11m respectively. Like I said earlier please use correct information.

Listen bud, the whole point is what goes against our cap. His bonus is prorated over the contract. So his salary is not as high, but his "cap" hit is much higher. If you are going to accuse me of now knowing what I am saying, maybe do research for yourself and maybe look at my post history (with my extensive off-season plans with cap breakdowns) and you would realize, I do not spew numbers unless I look into them. If you are curious to how this breaks down, I will include a link to his salary every year with his bonuses included. It also will show you the "dead" money we would take on by getting rid of him. I appreciate you engaging in conversation about this stuff, but accusing someone of being incorrect when in fact YOU ARE incorrect is pretty sad bud.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/andre-johnson/

Now you can see VERY clearly what I am talking about when it comes to Smith and his back loading contracts and putting us in a big time hole. Another poster said he did better with JJ's contract, thats just not accurate. He back loaded the crap out of his contract as well, but at least he made it where we can cut him after 2018 if we had to. (He is young enough that we should be ok, but still risky considering Ricks inability to create better contracts for others).

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/j.j.-watt/

He did it with Foster and made it virtually impossible to cut him before his last season and GAIN any kind of significant value out of releasing him.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/arian-foster/

The worst one yet is Cushings considering we were in no NEED to resign him at that point. We still controlled him and should have made him play 1 season before paying him, it bite Rick in the ass and the team is hurt until AT LEAST 2017 possibly even 2018 before we gain significant value out of releasing him.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/brian-cushing/

Or the fact he over paid once again for Daniels and then got bit by an injury and was strapped with a back loaded deal. We unload him, take on more dead money and watch him go to the Ravens for cheap and playing well.

The fact we signed Matt to a huge deal is mind blowing, but then to back load it and risk our future was even crazier. He did the best thing we could have by taking the entire hit this year, but it hurt us in the rebuilding process by missing out on a few good players this free agency. The problem is, we are not looking to good this coming off-season so he couldn't push more dead money to next year, so he forced his own hand.

There is a recurring theme with Smith. He gives big time contracts to players early (Schaub, Foster, Cushing, Kris Brown, Daniels) and then we watch them get hurt or regress badly. All of those guys had 1 year left on their deal or were RFA's in which no one was going to unload picks for.

Thats just the signing deals side of things. How about the ones we did NOT sign: Mario, Barwin, Ryans, Antonio, Quin, Winston.

What about the draft? I think others have conquered that in this thread.

 

[Troy Chapman]

Sorry if I offended you, but you were misrepresenting the information; no need to get upset about it. You can say what you want, but salary (player pay) is not the same as the salary cap charge. No need to link me to Spotrac, I pretty well versed in the NFL salary cap just as you are.

I guess the difference lies in what you define "back loading" a contract. I explained my thought on it a few pages back. I view back loading as placing large P5 salary at the end of the contract. Arian Foster's contract is not back loaded by any means in my definition, as judged by the relatively flat salary & cap charges.

You view back loading (based on your latest explanation) as the amount of dead money left towards the end of the contract. I explained my thoughts on this earlier as well. Rick Smith and Chris Olsen used large signing bonus money; and which as you know is pro-rated up to 5 years over the contract. The large signing bonus money leaves a lot of dead money towards the end of the contract.

The trend now, as you see (and I explained) with Watt's and other player's contracts in the NFL, is to go with a small signing bonus and guarantee earlier years of salary or big one time roster bonuses. Essentially making any deal a 3 or 4 year deal...with an out later in the contract with little consequence.

The signing of players and them getting hurt later...I don't see how that is Smith's fault. Nobody can forsee a player getting hurt like they have been.

Again sorry I upset you, but clearly our definitions on terminology varies greatly.

 

[amazing80]

Sorry if I offended you, but you were misrepresenting the information; no need to get upset about it. You can say what you want, but salary (player pay) is not the same as the salary cap charge. No need to link me to Spotrac, I pretty well versed in the NFL salary cap just as you are.

I guess the difference lies in what you define "back loading" a contract. I explained my thought on it a few pages back. I view back loading as placing large P5 salary at the end of the contract. Arian Foster's contract is not back loaded by any means in my definition, as judged by the relatively flat salary & cap charges.

You view back loading (based on your latest explanation) as the amount of dead money left towards the end of the contract. I explained my thoughts on this earlier as well. Rick Smith and Chris Olsen used large signing bonus money; and which as you know is pro-rated up to 5 years over the contract. The large signing bonus money leaves a lot of dead money towards the end of the contract.

The trend now, as you see (and I explained) with Watt's and other player's contracts in the NFL, is to go with a small signing bonus and guarantee earlier years of salary or big one time roster bonuses. Essentially making any deal a 3 or 4 year deal...with an out later in the contract with little consequence.

The signing of players and them getting hurt later...I don't see how that is Smith's fault. Nobody can forsee a player getting hurt like they have been.

Again sorry I upset you, but clearly our definitions on terminology varies greatly.

You haven't upset me lol. To me the salary is slightly irrelevant. I am more concerned with our ability to have freedom with players (cutting them or trading them). By not staggering the salaries and bonuses we create a flat lines increase in salary and a very slow regressing cap hit. The good teams spread the bonuses and salaries differently while moving the dead money around for each contract. Some have large dead money in the beginning of contracts and then they sign a few with large dead money at the end of deals. This spreads the money around and gives more freedom with "creating" space at any given time.

The signing of Watt IMO was more an a Brian Gaines idea because Smith has NEVER done this. There is no way he magically came up with this himself.

And you are right no one can predict injuries, but the fact he resigned a lot of those guys to MASSIVE contracts with almost all of them coming off injuries already is crazy. Not to mention he had time left to evaluate the situation. Look at Seattle, they are in no hurry to sign every one of their players. Let them play up until the last minute before handing out big time deals. It allows us more freedom.

And again, none of this even begins to address the mistakes he keeps making with letting good players go and missing on TONS of picks in the draft. We are supposed to be a build through the draft team, but we don't sign most of our good players and the other ones we draft suck.

 

[Troy Chapman]

I agree that salary is irrelevant. Just the comment of AJ is making 46 million...just caught me the wrong way. I'm not much of an X & O guy but I do understand the cap and how it works; it is a subject that interests me quite a bit. I've spoke with Jason Fitzgerald and the Spotrac group offline numerous times; I've read the related portions of the CBA numerous times....all to help me understand the salary cap. Enough to where I maintain my own spreadsheet on the Texans, and usually (based on sources) I can get the numbers in before OTC & Spotrac has them posted.

Matt Schaub is the only contract I questioned in the past 4 years; and I understand why it was done. All the other contracts I have agreed with. Hindsight says some of them were wrong. But I am glad Smith gave it a shot and signed the players that Kubiak felt he needed for his system. Smith also has had some tough luck with those players and their injuries.

I think the Watt deal was a product of Gaines and Olsen, from what I read I don't Smith was in on the contract negotiations. Smith probably had some high level oversight but the nuts and bolts of the deal was Olsen.

 

[Norg]

I wanted RIck smith Canned and BOB bring in his own GM hes comfortable with

meaning give Bill o brein More of the power IMO I wouldn't mind that

 

[dream_team]

The signing of Watt IMO was more an a Brian Gaines idea because Smith has NEVER done this. There is no way he magically came up with this himself.

If we want to honestly critique Rick, we can't get into the guessing game of who made what calls for the benefit of your argument. If we want to pin every bad move on him, have to give him the credit for all the good as well.

And you are right no one can predict injuries, but the fact he resigned a lot of those guys to MASSIVE contracts with almost all of them coming off injuries already is crazy. Not to mention he had time left to evaluate the situation. Look at Seattle, they are in no hurry to sign every one of their players. Let them play up until the last minute before handing out big time deals. It allows us more freedom.

There's two sides to this tactic. If you resign a guy early, you'll most likely get him cheaper... since you don't have to worry about competition from other teams.

Look at the Flacco situation. They could have saved ALOT of money if they signed him earlier like he wanted. Instead, they're paying him elite QB money when he's not elite.

We also just saved ALOT of money by signing Watt early. With the season he's having, and McCoy's recent deal, Watt would be asking for more if we waited.

 

[JB]

We also just saved ALOT of money by signing Watt early. With the season he's having, and McCoy's recent deal, Watt would be asking for more if we waited.

Do you think McCoy gets that kind of deal if Watt hadn't signed first?

 

[Troy Chapman]

Do you think McCoy gets that kind of deal if Watt hadn't signed first?

I honestly do. I think the money would have been about the same regardless of who signed first between Quinn, McCoy, and Watt. I am just glad the got Watt done first to set the bar instead of someone else setting it higher.

 

[steelbtexan]

I think he is committed to winning. The bad thing is he doesn't know how to attract or scout the good GM's who can therefore hire the scouts that can evaluate better talent.

What in his track record makes you think this? Could it just be that we all are hoping this is true?

 

[Marcus]

If we want to honestly critique Rick, we can't get into the guessing game of who made what calls for the benefit of your argument. If we want to pin every bad move on him, have to give him the credit for all the good as well.

That is exactly what I find so disingenuous, and downright silly. This picking and choosing of what to blame him for, and what to not give him credit for, destroys any credibility whatsoever in any criticism made against him.

It just reinforces my argument, that the only real, underlying reason for firing Smith, is to make the change just for the sake of making a change. But everyone who wants him gone is too chickenshit to admit it.

 

[JB]

I think he is committed to winning. The bad thing is he doesn't know how to attract or scout the good GM's who can therefore hire the scouts that can evaluate better talent.

What in his track record makes you think this? Could it just be that we all are hoping this is true?

I think the scouting had a lot to do with it... it was bad. I believe it's all been turned over so we shall see

 

[steelbtexan]

Sorry if I offended you, but you were misrepresenting the information; no need to get upset about it. You can say what you want, but salary (player pay) is not the same as the salary cap charge. No need to link me to Spotrac, I pretty well versed in the NFL salary cap just as you are.

I guess the difference lies in what you define "back loading" a contract. I explained my thought on it a few pages back. I view back loading as placing large P5 salary at the end of the contract. Arian Foster's contract is not back loaded by any means in my definition, as judged by the relatively flat salary & cap charges.

You view back loading (based on your latest explanation) as the amount of dead money left towards the end of the contract. I explained my thoughts on this earlier as well. Rick Smith and Chris Olsen used large signing bonus money; and which as you know is pro-rated up to 5 years over the contract. The large signing bonus money leaves a lot of dead money towards the end of the contract.

The trend now, as you see (and I explained) with Watt's and other player's contracts in the NFL, is to go with a small signing bonus and guarantee earlier years of salary or big one time roster bonuses. Essentially making any deal a 3 or 4 year deal...with an out later in the contract with little consequence.

The signing of players and them getting hurt later...I don't see how that is Smith's fault. Nobody can forsee a player getting hurt like they have been.

Again sorry I upset you, but clearly our definitions on terminology varies greatly.

I wonder if backloading contracts helps make Smith's bosses more $$$$$ by structuring contracts that way? As far as signing hurt players goes. Doc warned us about Schaub's injury. He also warned about Cush/OD. If he knew why didn't Smith?

For me I hope Smith has learned a lesson and doesn't sign players coming off ACL/major injuries until he absolutely has too and talks to the medical staff before he makes these kinds of decisions.

 

[dream_team]

1.Newsome- Ravens

You mean the same GM that bombed in the 2013 draft, less than 2 years ago? Out of 10 picks, only 4 are actually contributing to the team. A second round pick that’s continuously on the inactive list. A 4th rounder, John Simon… we all know what happened to him.

1 Matt Elam - Starting
2 Arthur Brown - 0 starts, inactive for every game this season
3 Brandon Williams - Starting
4 John Simon - Texans!
4 Kyle Juszczyk - FB (not sure if he starts or not)
5 Ricky Wagner - Starting
6 Kapron Lewis-Moore - IR
6 Ryan Jensen - PS
7 Aaron Mellette - cut
7 Marc Anthony - cut

In all honesty, I think Newsome is a good GM. I’m just giving him the same criticism a lot of people are doing to Rick in here. Dissecting drafts will make just about every GM in the league look bad.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

In all honesty, I think Newsome is a good GM. I’m just giving him the same criticism a lot of people are doing to Rick in here. Dissecting drafts will make just about every GM in the league look bad.

That's pretty much where I'm at with this. I'm not going to argue about it or anything but i think a lot of people have unrealistic expectations. I think people would be complaining (and will continue to complain) about Rick Smith no matter what happens in the future.

 

[JB]

You mean the same GM that bombed in the 2013 draft, less than 2 years ago? Out of 10 picks, only 4 are actually contributing to the team. A second round pick that’s continuously on the inactive list. A 4th rounder, John Simon… we all know what happened to him.

1 Matt Elam - Starting
2 Arthur Brown - 0 starts, inactive for every game this season
3 Brandon Williams - Starting
4 John Simon - Texans!
4 Kyle Juszczyk - FB (not sure if he starts or not)
5 Ricky Wagner - Starting
6 Kapron Lewis-Moore - IR
6 Ryan Jensen - PS
7 Aaron Mellette - cut
7 Marc Anthony - cut

In all honesty, I think Newsome is a good GM. I’m just giving him the same criticism a lot of people are doing to Rick in here. Dissecting drafts will make just about every GM in the league look bad.

If they are still in the league and contributing for 3.5 years, whether on the same team or not, they have beaten the averages and have to be considered at least a fair pick.

 

[dream_team]

If they are still in the league and contributing for 3.5 years, whether on the same team or not, they have beaten the averages and have to be considered at least a fair pick.

I agree. Looking back at Rick's "disastrous" 2013 draft, only Williams is completely out of the league... and that's due to injuries.

 

[amazing80]

That is exactly what I find so disingenuous, and downright silly. This picking and choosing of what to blame him for, and what to not give him credit for, destroys any credibility whatsoever in any criticism made against him.

It just reinforces my argument, that the only real, underlying reason for firing Smith, is to make the change just for the sake of making a change. But everyone who wants him gone is too chickenshit to admit it.

The only thing they did correct was sign JJ and limit his dead money to just a few seasons, it was done this season only AFTER we brought in new people to help the situation. How are we suppose to think Smith had anything to do with that? He has never done it before, but suddenly he "figured it out"? I don't think so

 

[ObsiWan]

The only thing they did correct was sign JJ and limit his dead money to just a few seasons, it was done this season only AFTER we brought in new people to help the situation. How are we suppose to think Smith had anything to do with that? He has never done it before, but suddenly he "figured it out"? I don't think so

Perhaps the new dogs they brought in taught the old ones (Smith & Olsen) some new tricks.
It could happen.