I don't know what the true numbers are, but NFLDraftScout had 1.59 for Clowney and 1.62 for Ware.
I don't think the 14-yd split alone is enough to measure initial quickness of the first step since the stands ate different.
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Selection 1.1: JaDeveon Clowney DE-OLB
- Thread starter infantrycak
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I don't know what the true numbers are, but NFLDraftScout had 1.59 for Clowney and 1.62 for Ware.
I don't think the 14-yd split alone is enough to measure initial quickness of the first step since the stands ate different.
As one who wanted to (a) trade out of 1-1 for more picks or (b) grab Robinson to plug in at RT (and groom for LT when DB starts to slow down), I hope the Texans were right in taking Clowney and passing on the (albeit rumored) trade offers.
O'Brien is on record as "not concerned" with Clowney taking plays off in college
We'll all be watching with great interest to see if O'Brien is right.
They plan to red-shirt him. Maybe the Texans didn't see the value in taking him with a top 5 pick, then sitting him an entire year... maybe they did & he was the target of their trade-down, if they worked one out.
Who knows.
At this point in time, there are dozens of stars in the NFL. There's room for a really good Bortles & a really good Clowney. Just like there is room for a really good Jj Watt & a could one day be really good Andrew Luck.
doesn't have to be either or.
That may be the plan today, but since they saw enough there to use the #3 overall for him, based upon that sizable investment they could quickly accelerate that schedule if they begin to see more in TC/pre-season games games from Bortles.
That is besides the point. They are saying they drafted him knowing they were going to sit him. Maybe the Texans saw the same thing, but decided to draft a player who can contribute in 2014.
Why would they be concentrating on 2014, they aren't Denver or somebody like that looking for a SB win now, they are instead looking longer-term as the Jags surely are. I'm pretty sure OB just didn't see enough of what he was looking for in a QB to draft Bortles while Jacksonville did.
Long-term starts today.
They're just taking different approaches. Jacksonville spent a lot of resources in FA to accomplish what we accomplished in the draft.
"but decided to draft a player who can contribute in 2014/long-term."
****
Whatever ?
welsh texan
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one
What is the argument here? You think Jax would have picked Bortles over Clowney at #1??
Winning today sets up winning tomorrow. We improved our trenches in the draft. They improved theirs in FA. Different approaches, that's all.
They decided the best thing for the long term of their club was to draft a QB they didn't feel was ready to start day 1. We didn't.
Maybe the Texans believe Savage sitting for a year is equivalent to Bortles sitting for a year. Maybe, I don't know.
But yes, I think drafting a player that can help contribute to wins in 2014 is a long term strategy, more so, anyway, than using a valuable asset to acquire a player who won't play in 2014.
Bortles... Savage... tell me, what's the difference?
132 positions in the Draft, i.e., a helluva lot.
& we'll see if Bortles was worth it.
Yeah,I'm confused too.
What IS the argument?
...that Bortles wasn't worth the #3 pick.
...that we should have picked a QB earlier? If so, who?
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Texian believes Bortles is Elway and Clowney is Aundray Bruce . Not only that but he thinks the Jags cleaned up in FA . Them Jags are so sneaky that I can't see these stud muffins on the depth chart .
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Not hardly. Not at 2, not at 3.
I guess a few think their scouting opinions & players evaluations are better than O'Brien's and the other professional's. If so, that's cool.
What is your(their) track record? Did you jump for joy when we drafted JJ Watt? What did you think of those 2011 QBs? Who'd you like in 2012 for the Texans? How did your other highlighted favorites work out?
Also, are you more a fan of the Texans or your own opinion?
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
He doesn't respond to any specific arguments and just goes "Clowney will be just like [insert bust]! You'll all see! 3 sacks!" and refuses to acknowledge any substantive claim against his.
Don't feed the troll, y'all.
Texian Bills or Lord Texian ?
http://blogs.ourlads.com/2014/05/16/afc-south-2014-nfl-draft-2/
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leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
I call nfln radio alot and talk to kirwan. In that draft, I told him the only qb worth a 1st was cam. If mallett didht have the issues, he wouldve been a early 2. None of those guys drafted in the 1st shouldve been drafted before rd 3. None,gabbert,ponder,or locker had the college production of the 3 1st rd qbs this yr. In regard to watt, I was super pleased the texans got him. I thought aldon was gonna fall to the texans, but he went a few picks earlier. I was suprised the cowboys didnt draft watt,but they opted for smith. I make no bones, I wanted bridgewater. I was surprised they didnt improve the qb room. I mean, the patriots have brady and they took a qb before the texans.
So, are they (the Patriots) high on Mallett?
What do you think Belichik ' s reasoning in drafting Garropolo?
I think it's mainly cap consideration as Garropla will be under contract for 4 years while Mallet will become an unrestricted FA after this season at which time he will command much higher compensation than Garropolo. And this way they've got Mallet another season while the rookie has the season to "learn the ropes" as Brady's BU.
I don't know, IDEXAN.
If we look at the FA QB signing this offseason, the guys that were signed to a somewhat good to good contracts are guys that have shown enough in their careers.
Mallett has nothing on his pro resume.
You add to it the fact that Belichik was willing to spend a second round pick on a QB, the thinking that Mallett can be a decent to good starting NFL QB seems to be on unsupporting ground.
To be honest, I was not aware of Mallett's off-the-field question marks, I just didn't see a good NFL QB in him.
I saw Newton, Dalton, and Kaepernick and a few so-so guys, Mallett included.
I don't remember exactly how I came to that conclusion since I had to clear my head every year to look at new prospects at all the positions.
I don't know how other coaches and GMs can have information now that would put Mallett over the top.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Man you should have GMs lined up outside your door. You had Mallett in the right Goldilocks porridge pot while in complete ignorance of the issues that caused him to land there due to their total misevaluation of his talent otherwise being higher. Plus the foresight to see exactly the QBs who are currently still starters. Reveal yourself to the NFL and collect your crystal football.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
The NFL draft is like match.com or in the Texans case it was Christian singles .com in that big breasted blonde ( big armed tall guy ) gets the most hits but it doesn't mean she's a good fit or talented . It probably takes many a hit before you find a good match .
Ps. This was way after my courting years .
No Cak, I merely reiterate that I never care much for things off the football field.
If I happen to hear about it, then so be it.
I have let it be known that I do not care for the business side of football.
Also, I've always said that regular people (even draftniks) don't have the resources that afford a sport organization.
The fact that guys like me, who just love to study prospects for the next level is just that.
We still have a lot of disagreement.
It doesn't matter to me who's right or wrong on how many call.
It is a hobby.
There isn't the smartest guy in the room.
It's like a journey.
The fun is getting there, not after.
Lighten up, dude.
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Pats are high on Brady, which means timing dictates Mallett will get his second contract elsewhere.
It's interesting. Patriots didn't have a 3rd round pick, but the next QB selected was Savage at the back end of round 4.
Belichick had to figure Jimmy G. would've gone to somebody in the 3rd and he had to get a QB because of the Mallet situation... his hand was forced.
Well, I'm glad that you respond first.
It means that whatever my next question is, we both know it's not about your intelligence or mine.
What can be considered a somewhat legitimate guess as of Mallett's next contract, and what dictates the level of that contract?
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http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/45947/309/2014-nfl-free-agents
Top of this year's class got ~$5 million per(on paper)... above that.
If the Texans want him I bet it's higher. Depends alot on different team's circumstances in a year.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Someone who doesn't get their guy in the draft or has an injury late in this season to their QB will pay him a couple of mil guaranteed or more with conditional restrictions. He is now a 1 year insurance policy for the Patriots.
In another word, are there GMs and/or HC'S who think highly enough of Mallett to either:
1. Go after him in the FA market as if he's the savior of the franchise.
2. He can be better than any QB drafted in 2015
3. He may not be as good as A (let me just take Mariotta as the number one guy). He may not be as good as Winston (but our organization don't want to deal with Winston ' s situation). "This certain organization" thinks that he's a better solution that guys like Hundley, and so forth.
IMO, if they do, they would at least give up a second for him this year. The Texans gave up two plus for Schaub.
4. What is it Mallett's market value?
1. Go after him in the FA market as if he's the savior of the franchise.
2. He can be better than any QB drafted in 2015
3. He may not be as good as A (let me just take Mariotta as the number one guy). He may not be as good as Winston (but our organization don't want to deal with Winston ' s situation). "This certain organization" thinks that he's a better solution that guys like Hundley, and so forth.
IMO, if they do, they would at least give up a second for him this year. The Texans gave up two plus for Schaub.
4. What is it Mallett's market value?
What says that Mallett is in the top of the class?
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It's who, not what. OB who knows Mallett, and George Godsey, who's been with him even longer. If they don't think Mallett's ceiling is higher than this year's class -- outside of McCown who's 35 and may be a result of his system -- it's not a high bar, then it's a problem.
Vick, Sanchez, McCown, Cassel, Fitzpatrick, Henne.
I don't know who'll be in next year's class or if we'll be in the market to sign a FA QB.
Mallet's market value will be determined in about a year.
Let me just ask this question.
When was OB with the Patriots last?
What was Mallett doing then?
Was he already so outstanding that OB would say "Man, I would have this guy if I ever coach in the NFL".
And if he had already proven so, why would Belichik wants to give him up without a king ransom?
Things don't tie together for me.
Let's look at it a different way.
Was Mallett worth 1.1 to the Texans?
No, because otherwise, a deal was simple.
Was he worth 2.1 for the Texans?
Very highly unlikely.
Do you think that Belichik would refuse 2.1 for Mallett?
What prevented such a transaction.
Why would you want any QB that neither coach want at that "value"?
Was Mallett worth 1.1 to the Texans?
No, because otherwise, a deal was simple.
Was he worth 2.1 for the Texans?
Very highly unlikely.
Do you think that Belichik would refuse 2.1 for Mallett?
What prevented such a transaction.
Why would you want any QB that neither coach want at that "value"?
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Mallett's value to the Patriots is always as backup to Tom. It's an important position in that franchise, because Tom gets them into the playoffs every year.
Thank you.
So the next question is what Mallett worth to other franchises that needed a QB this season.
They drafted Bortles, Manziel, and Bridgewater.
Why didn't they make a play on Mallett?
Is it because Belichik had a higher asking price, knowing that Mallett won't be resigned next year?
I'm quite sure that doesn't make sense.
If Belichick believed, that Mallett would be special, a QB that has the ability to take a team to the superbowl - well then he`d probably try to lock him up next offseason, because a backup like that is very valuable and Brady can`t play forever.
If Belichick believed, that Mallett would be a quality starter (think Matt Schaub in his best days), he`d also either try to lock him up next offseason or he`d try to "present" him this preseason and maybe even at some point during the season (in a last game that is meaningless to playoff standings) to up his value. Because Belichick hates to get less value in a trade.
Drafting a QB that high definetly means, that he thinks higher of Garapolo than he thinks of Mallet. And it probably means, he doesn`t see Mallet as a starting QB for a team serious about winning. I am not saying he hates him - he is probably pretty satisfied with him as a backup. And he probably sees the tools needed to succeed in the NFL. But he clearly doesn`t value him high enough, meaning he doesn`t think he can lead a team.
And really, he hasn`t shown much so far. He hasn`t done anything in a NFL game, his college career was good, but there were several questionmarks back then. I´d be fine with us picking him up with a late round pick, simply because of his potential - but we already have 2 guys with some potential in Savage and Keenum, and if neither turns out to be our guy for the future, we probably have a better chance at finding our next QB in the draft...
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The talk for us was a trade for a 5th-7th round pick. Somebody decided it wasn't worth it. If I were BB, I would've kept Mallet for this year and collected the compensatory pick next year. Likely playoff team, if Tom gets hurt in the 14th game you want a chance to continue.
Regardless, barring a sudden retirement or career-ending injury by/to Brady, Mallett will leave to get his chance at being a starter and to maximize the value of his 2nd contract that he may have to live off for years to come. Patriots can give him neither.
Such a glaringly simple answer.
All of the Mallett talk was from our side, and it was just that...talk. Silly talk, too, imo. Why give up a draft pick and have to resign the guy after the season? It makes much more sense to me to let the guy sit behind Brady this year and see what's what next year.
Besides, it's going to be hard enough to split the snaps in an open competition between 3-4 QB's, who are still learning the system, and keep it honest and open competition.
AngryNateFTW
Veteran
After the 2nd and 3rd round of the draft didn't the media ask Rick Smith about these "trade talks" for Mallett and he answered by saying that they were all fake rumors and we had had absolutely no talks with the Pats?
Same... well, I didn't let go until they drafted Wade Smith's replacement in the second round. I dd a little dance.
add to that he probably thought he'd work out a trade with someone & needed a QB he doesn't have three years to develop. Ryan Mallet is plug & play if something were to happen to Terrific. If he traded Mallet, he'd have to start a green rookie.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Despite our constant disagreement, I respect what you do and try to show. Back to the question, value. I know BB understand value. That doesn't mean he hasn't missed,but the fact mallett is on the roster speaks value. He knows if he develops a qb, a team will give up something higher than the draft position. If a team don't, he'll have a good value and he will draft a yr early. The packers did this with favre. Brunnell,brooks,and hassellback all were developed and traded. Think about falcons drafting vick in 01,then schaub 3 yrs later.. 3 yrs after that,in his last yr, they got 2-2nd rd picks from the texans. It only works if you have a franchise qb. The broncos will be in the same boat next. There were rumors teams were asking about Brock. Qb development is the best way to replenish lost players. A lot of teams are wasting a valuable resource. If you have a good team, a lot of 4tth rd picks don't make the team. Developing a qb with a 4th rd pick is worth it.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
The Pats also know that they can expect a 4th or 5 th round compensatory pick just by letting him play out his contract and become a FA. So, there is little reason to trade him away for a 4th or 5th this year.
In the spirit of full disclosure, that pick sure helped ease my mind a lot too... that and the prospect of Quessenbury coming back to full health and taking over at RT. And as "insurance" if Quess or Williams or Newton don't step up, we picked up three (four?) UDFA rookies to compete for the OT spot(s).Same... well, I didn't let go until they drafted Wade Smith's replacement in the second round. I dd a little dance.
In short, they've addressed that glaring weakness that was our RT spot.
Can't wait to see how things shake out in camp.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Insane draft grades all around, Clowney highest among them & superlative fit on Crennel defense along with Nix should really help relieve Watt's workload. Great pick, he seems like a noble young budding superstar who has been indoctrinated into limelight for years so jump should not be too much for him to handle from maturity standpoint.
Thing I like the most, so far, is that Nix looks like he's got something to prove. He's leaned out quite a bit & he's not messing with twitter. Man's on a mission.
Not at all happy about dropping to the third.
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