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Manziel
- Thread starter Wolf
- Start date
- Status
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Guys who've been successful scrambling & running around with the ball at the qb position in the NFL have either had exceptional physical traits (Cunningham, Vick, McNabb Newton) or are so good at passing the ball running lanes open up to them b/c teams are dropping back in coverage (Young, Elway, Wilson).
Manziel obviously isn't in the class of the 1st group with exceptional physical traits...If he was, there'd be no question who should be the pick at 1:1. It also remains to be seen if he can be a consistently good enough passer to deter defenses from coming after him like they do all rookie qb's. He had spells in college where he was fine playing from the pocket (usually against bad teams) he had much more trouble doing so against better defensive teams. a few months in the off season working with a qb guru isn't going to correct that...sorry Manziel fans. Gotta see it when the live bullets start to fly b/c that's when guys start to revert to old habits. I also think you are severely underestimating NFL speed. If he can't give defenses a consistent pause to not come after him, he most certainly will be run down much more often than he will escape.
The "jerk" part has been redacted from the original post. For those claiming Cloak has made informed opinions, all I've seen from him is blind insistence than Manziel is going to be injury prone and some comedic pictures of a retard dog running around and then lying down on his back.
I'm fine with criticizing Manziel. I just find posts like his on the subject to not be conducive to conversation. State your arguments about his ability to read a defense, his predilection to scramble, and his size, and move on.
No need to walk around acting as if you are the only authority on the subject and anyone that believes differently is simply a dumb ass. That's the tone I have gotten from CND's posts.
I found the pictures to be quite funny. Of course I don't get my panties is a wad very often.
Humor is one of the great things in life.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
Though I may not agree with CnD's opinion, I do believe him to be one of the most believable posters on Texans Talk.... I look to him for any medical evaluations when it comes to the Texans.... now I'm a bit ashamed he's not admitted to being a teasip.... he is a doctor afterall... and we all know UT graduates a ton of them
I want this on record. I too GREATLY value CND's contribution to this board. His medical evaluations are routinely right on. As an example, I remember when Cushing hurt his knee the first time, and CND immediately came on the board, made note of the hand signal used, and correctly predicted EXACTLY what the injury would be. No doubt, he's a benefit to the board. I've just found his insight on Manziel to be the polar opposite of his insight on all things medically related.
To be honest, I found the pictures mildly comical.
I'll state it again. The point of my original post was to state that I can identify with the VY lovers to a point in their desire to rub his success in the face of haters (in the case of Manziel, I used CND as my main example) and if/when Johnny marches into Reliant and leads Jacksonville to trounce the Texans, it will be VERY difficult for me to not give all those posters that were anti-Manziel hell over the blind hatred of the kid, much of it due to where he went to college.
There was never the illusion that Case Keenum would be the #1 pick in the draft like Young and Manziel either.
I don't see the groundswell for Manziel. Some like him, some don't. Most just want to draft someone, bring him in, and start winning. I don't care who is drafted, really. If the Texans draft every player I want them to, and still lose, I will call them a failure. The only thing that matters to me is watching a winning team in NRG Stadium. I really don't care much who I'm watching. And I think most fans feelings reflect mine.
... and it has begun.
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2475692&forum_id=5
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2475831&forum_id=5
I guess it's nice to know that it's not just UT fans that go can go full on asinine when it comes to a player.
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2475692&forum_id=5
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2475831&forum_id=5
I guess it's nice to know that it's not just UT fans that go can go full on asinine when it comes to a player.
I guess all those Aggies dumping the Texans have no allegiance to Randy Bullock.
I'm in the same boat. Actually brought back memories from the draft of 2006. Everything that is being said of Manziel now is almost identical to what was said about Vince Young. Especially how the Titans would destroy us every year. The Jaguars and Titans have been beating us regardless of who their quarterback was.
We have been the Browns of the AFC South. Nobody fears us when they come to Houston. My hope is that O'Brien makes our team fearless and dominant like the Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, etc.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
That's what I'm saying. He was an UDFA and he still generated a pretty good amount of insanity all things considered.
It's VY all over again.
Here's what should (should have) happened.
The Texans sign Vince Young instead of Cleveland.
The Texans draft Johnny Manziel
The Texans keep Case Keenum on the roster.
Our fan base would devour each other in a sea of hatred.
You think the Liberal-Conservative, Christian-Atheist, and Pro-Choice - Pro Life mudslinging is bad in the No Spin Zone.
The Texans sign Vince Young instead of Cleveland.
The Texans draft Johnny Manziel
The Texans keep Case Keenum on the roster.
Our fan base would devour each other in a sea of hatred.
You think the Liberal-Conservative, Christian-Atheist, and Pro-Choice - Pro Life mudslinging is bad in the No Spin Zone.
Texans fans fighting each other in the stands?
I agree completely. This is what the forum has always been about, and you will not find a post from me in the last decade that contradicts it.
It's all good, man. It's just conversation about a subject that we all care about.
I do not think the Manziel hype has been anything close to the VY situation in 2006. Similarities and shades, yes, but VY just came off a national championship, and let's face it, UT fans are a dime a dozen like Yankees and Cowboys fans when their teams are winning (no offense to t-sippers, just 47 years of living-in-Texas-observation on my part).
The VY supporters won the battle when he came to Reliant that rookie season, the infamous "this is my house!" game where he gouged the Texans D for a long run at the end of the game.
But, they lost the war when VY turned out to be all hat and no cattle. One of the bigger over-hyped busts in recent memory.
My attitude about "fairweather fans" that Texian took exception to was specifically due to 2006. I had Texans 'friends' in my section. We knew each other every year because of season tickets. Some even purported to HATE the Titans.
Then that 2006 game. Many show up in Titans gear! They literally screamed at us when the game was over like it was our decision to make. "How could we be so stupid to pass up a hall of famer like VY?!?!!!!"
Next home game they're back in Texans gear.
That left an indelible impression on me, which is why I have a strong opinion on the matter.
btw, I have nothing against Manziel. If they draft him, I'll be on board with the pick. If they don't, then on to the next guy.
I can see it now.
Keenum gets sacked and fumbles the ball. Texans fans wearing Young and Manziel jerseys go crazy and start cheering. They even start the wave in the stadium.
Young gets confused, runs 90 yards the wrong way for a safety. Manziel and Keenum fans erupt into cheers.
Manziel is plowed over by a linebacker and is knocked out of the game.
Pandemonium ensues in Reliant Stadium as Young and Keenum fans rejoice.
Fights and terror in the stands.
Agree with most of it. I took issue with the assertion that anybody could "drop 7" and hope to contain Manziel with the front four. That isn't underestimating anything, just going with the numbers. Also, you're quite a bit off with your QB guru timeline, Manziel has been working with Whitfield since before the 2013 season.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Pity the Cleveland game is in Cleveland. I'd give anything to see it here and see the Browns with Vince and JFF both on their roster with the Texans starting Keenum. Total madness. I'd wear a Cougars jersey that day just because.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Don Banks of SI:
While the NFL parlor game called "Where will Johnny Go?'' rages on, here are the draft rumblings I'm hearing as the wide-open first round looms Thursday night in New York's Radio City Music Hall ...
This week's strong and completely contrasting media reports about Cleveland's intent on drafting Manziel at No. 4 makes his ultimate destination seem a total riddle, but there is one nugget I've gleaned from a source that has insight into Manziel's inner circle. From what I've been told, Manziel's family is not rooting for Houston to be his NFL home, believing that staying in Texas will make his already challenging transition to professional football that much more challenging. Their thinking is that Manziel will find it far easier to distance himself from his "Johnny Football'' persona and focus completely on football if he's not near the circle of peers who comprised his college-era partying crowd. His family is said to be in favor of anywhere but Houston, but I'd have to think Dallas would pose the same set of complications in their view.
I've also heard that Manziel himself isn't wild about the idea of landing in Jacksonville, one of the NFL's smaller markets, and that the Jaguars would not be his first choice of employers. It's not a preference based on people, only location. But Manziel doesn't get to choose his new workplace address, and quarterback-needy Jacksonville remains very much a possibility as his ultimate destination. There was a Houston Chronicle report on Wednesday morning that had momentum building for the Manziel-Jaguars marriage to unfold Thursday night.
Seven or eight of the teams in the draft's top 10 seem to be willing and in the mood to either trade up or down (No. 3 Jacksonville and No. 5 Oakland appear the best bets to stick), but I'd put the label of most likely to vacate their spot on the No. 8 Vikings, who clearly are trying to deal downward. Logically that means Minnesota is not sold on any of the quarterbacks at that pick, which closes the first round's opening quarter, as it were.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nf...n-texans-2014-nfl-draft-rumors/#ixzz3194r2qEL
While the NFL parlor game called "Where will Johnny Go?'' rages on, here are the draft rumblings I'm hearing as the wide-open first round looms Thursday night in New York's Radio City Music Hall ...
This week's strong and completely contrasting media reports about Cleveland's intent on drafting Manziel at No. 4 makes his ultimate destination seem a total riddle, but there is one nugget I've gleaned from a source that has insight into Manziel's inner circle. From what I've been told, Manziel's family is not rooting for Houston to be his NFL home, believing that staying in Texas will make his already challenging transition to professional football that much more challenging. Their thinking is that Manziel will find it far easier to distance himself from his "Johnny Football'' persona and focus completely on football if he's not near the circle of peers who comprised his college-era partying crowd. His family is said to be in favor of anywhere but Houston, but I'd have to think Dallas would pose the same set of complications in their view.
I've also heard that Manziel himself isn't wild about the idea of landing in Jacksonville, one of the NFL's smaller markets, and that the Jaguars would not be his first choice of employers. It's not a preference based on people, only location. But Manziel doesn't get to choose his new workplace address, and quarterback-needy Jacksonville remains very much a possibility as his ultimate destination. There was a Houston Chronicle report on Wednesday morning that had momentum building for the Manziel-Jaguars marriage to unfold Thursday night.
Seven or eight of the teams in the draft's top 10 seem to be willing and in the mood to either trade up or down (No. 3 Jacksonville and No. 5 Oakland appear the best bets to stick), but I'd put the label of most likely to vacate their spot on the No. 8 Vikings, who clearly are trying to deal downward. Logically that means Minnesota is not sold on any of the quarterbacks at that pick, which closes the first round's opening quarter, as it were.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nf...n-texans-2014-nfl-draft-rumors/#ixzz3194r2qEL
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Manziel partied in other places besides Houston. I get what his family is saying (if true), but if Manziel wants to party and hang out with stars, he'll do that wherever he ends up.
I wouldn't touch Manziel till the end of the first though.
I wouldn't touch Manziel till the end of the first though.
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
So, fanbase reaction if:
Johnny falls out of the first round and is sitting at 33. The Texans pass on him for...
Derrick Carr.
Johnny falls out of the first round and is sitting at 33. The Texans pass on him for...
Derrick Carr.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
So, fanbase reaction if:
Johnny falls out of the first round and is sitting at 33. The Texans pass on him for...
Derrick Carr.
I'd laugh pretty hard and wouldn't be at all upset, but I would hesitate to even read these boards.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
So, fanbase reaction if:
Johnny falls out of the first round and is sitting at 33. The Texans pass on him for...
Derrick Carr.
.... Who then announces that he's going to switch to #8 in honor of his brother.....
It was his dad's suggestion. He consults him about everything
HJam72
Hall of Fame
I like Maziel and think he can be successful. ( If he is picked by the right team.) I have defended him probably more than anyone in this thread. If OB passes on him that's all I need to know. He's not the right fit. Let it go. If OB thought he could make Manziel fit he would be the pick. Period. It's stupid to get upset if we don't pick him.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Oh, I don't know about that. I'd say they're getting there pretty quickly and tonight when he comes off the board and goes to someone else they're going to be as loud as anything the VY nut huggers ever gave us.
It's really a pity that UH isn't a more prominent program. We Keenum nut huggers could have made a little more noise and then this would be the third time in recent memory that we'd gone through this process. Even with our smaller numbers it was still a pretty good message board ****-fit
Give it time....for me though, I see no difference in the level of homerism & down right idiocy of the 2006 VY nuthuggers and the 2014 Manzielots....even right now before the draft. Both have been equally annoying.
& brace yourself folks, the worst is yet to come. Come 10 pm this evening when the first round is over & JFF is drafted by another team.....the real hysteria will ensue. The vincepalm has never been more appropriate.
:vincepalm:
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
I do not think the Manziel hype has been anything close to the VY situation in 2006. Similarities and shades, yes, but VY just came off a national championship, and let's face it, UT fans are a dime a dozen like Yankees and Cowboys fans when their teams are winning (no offense to t-sippers, just 47 years of living-in-Texas-observation on my part).
The VY supporters won the battle when he came to Reliant that rookie season, the infamous "this is my house!" game where he gouged the Texans D for a long run at the end of the game.
But, they lost the war when VY turned out to be all hat and no cattle. One of the bigger over-hyped busts in recent memory.
My attitude about "fairweather fans" that Texian took exception to was specifically due to 2006. I had Texans 'friends' in my section. We knew each other every year because of season tickets. Some even purported to HATE the Titans.
Then that 2006 game. Many show up in Titans gear! They literally screamed at us when the game was over like it was our decision to make. "How could we be so stupid to pass up a hall of famer like VY?!?!!!!"
Next home game they're back in Texans gear.
That left an indelible impression on me, which is why I have a strong opinion on the matter.
btw, I have nothing against Manziel. If they draft him, I'll be on board with the pick. If they don't, then on to the next guy.
Awesome post man. I can't disagree with anything you have said here. Like I said, the only point of my post was to say I identify with the potential emotion of wanting to "stick it to" the anti-Manziel crowd that simply want to bash the guy because of the school he went to. I've had TONS of good conversations with people on this board and with those in "real life" that are anti-Manziel and make good arguments for why they are. What irks me are those that just hate on the guy because they just don't like him. There is no room for dialogue with people like that and this brings out in me a desire to "stick it to em" if/when Manziel goes to a rival and ends up kicking our asses all over the football field.
I'll be honest though. My fandom is waning. After the Capers and then the Kubiak years, I'm drained. Since inception, I've poured my heart and soul into this team but after watching them keep Kubiak after 2010, sign Matt Schaub to the extension, sign over-the-hill players like Ed Reed and Ahman Green that do little more than damage our future while letting up-and-comers like Glover Quinn walk, and seem to make changes at a snail's pace, my Texans fandom is on thin ice. A guy like Manziel, for better or for worse, could reinvigorate this franchise. He potentially gives us that rah-rah, star power player at the most important position on the football field that we have needed for our entire existence.
With my relationship with the Texans already on thin ice after all these years of heartache, I'm not sure where I'll be if they don't draft Johnny Manziel.
I understand the burnout, man. I really do. I was "all in" for the Oilers back in the day. My Monday mood was fully dependent on the game the day before. And every single year, the season ended in heartbreak.
But, I'd get back up, dust myself off, and be ready for the next season.
Then along came 35-3.
That game broke me from living vicariously through sports teams. I was depressed for a solid week, maybe two, and was certainly apathetic and thought I would never root for a sports team again. I had fun the next year, but that too ended in pain when Montana stomped the Oilers in yet another 4th quarter meltdown.
And then they were gone. That empty void is where I really gained perspective. We are merely spectators. Critical parts of the big picture that is pro sports, but passive observers nonetheless.
When the Texans were born, I jumped in feet first. But, with a caveat. I now understood the nature of being a fan. We root for the logo and colors. Players come, players go, but in the end, we root for the uniform. And like Seinfeld said, they win, we watch.
What is truly important to me in life are things that are tangible. My kids, my wife, my family, my business.
I care about the Texans, but it is only entertainment at the end of the day. No different than Star Wars, with the exception that the entertainment is a live product whose final result we witness as it happens.
So take a break, man. Don't let yourself get so wrapped up in it that it causes you any kind of emotional distress. That's not fair to you or those that love you, and it can often be unhealthy.
Not trying to preach or anything of the sort, but rather just relate my fan story to your fan story.
Sorry for the off-topic diversion. Just figured this thread has almost run it's course, so a little deviation is hopefully forgivable.
But, I'd get back up, dust myself off, and be ready for the next season.
Then along came 35-3.
That game broke me from living vicariously through sports teams. I was depressed for a solid week, maybe two, and was certainly apathetic and thought I would never root for a sports team again. I had fun the next year, but that too ended in pain when Montana stomped the Oilers in yet another 4th quarter meltdown.
And then they were gone. That empty void is where I really gained perspective. We are merely spectators. Critical parts of the big picture that is pro sports, but passive observers nonetheless.
When the Texans were born, I jumped in feet first. But, with a caveat. I now understood the nature of being a fan. We root for the logo and colors. Players come, players go, but in the end, we root for the uniform. And like Seinfeld said, they win, we watch.
What is truly important to me in life are things that are tangible. My kids, my wife, my family, my business.
I care about the Texans, but it is only entertainment at the end of the day. No different than Star Wars, with the exception that the entertainment is a live product whose final result we witness as it happens.
So take a break, man. Don't let yourself get so wrapped up in it that it causes you any kind of emotional distress. That's not fair to you or those that love you, and it can often be unhealthy.
Not trying to preach or anything of the sort, but rather just relate my fan story to your fan story.
Sorry for the off-topic diversion. Just figured this thread has almost run it's course, so a little deviation is hopefully forgivable.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
It's time some Photoshop master breaks out the "johnnypalm" to add to our collection of smilies I think.
We're gonna need it.
Edit: Google Image Search didn't turn up a single facepalm from JFF for me. I guess we'll have to wait until he's drafted and gets on the field in the NFL. Then I bet one will be easy to find
Goatcheese
Texan
So, fanbase reaction if:
Johnny falls out of the first round and is sitting at 33. The Texans pass on him for...
Derrick Carr.
Well, since I think Carr is the 17th best prospect and Manziel is 40th, I'd be pretty happy with that outcome.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
I understand the burnout, man. I really do. I was "all in" for the Oilers back in the day. My Monday mood was fully dependent on the game the day before. And every single year, the season ended in heartbreak.
But, I'd get back up, dust myself off, and be ready for the next season.
Then along came 35-3.
That game broke me from living vicariously through sports teams. I was depressed for a solid week, maybe two, and was certainly apathetic and thought I would never root for a sports team again. I had fun the next year, but that too ended in pain when Montana stomped the Oilers in yet another 4th quarter meltdown.
And then they were gone. That empty void is where I really gained perspective. We are merely spectators. Critical parts of the big picture that is pro sports, but passive observers nonetheless.
When the Texans were born, I jumped in feet first. But, with a caveat. I now understood the nature of being a fan. We root for the logo and colors. Players come, players go, but in the end, we root for the uniform. And like Seinfeld said, they win, we watch.
What is truly important to me in life are things that are tangible. My kids, my wife, my family, my business.
I care about the Texans, but it is only entertainment at the end of the day. No different than Star Wars, with the exception that the entertainment is a live product whose final result we witness as it happens.
So take a break, man. Don't let yourself get so wrapped up in it that it causes you any kind of emotional distress. That's not fair to you or those that love you, and it can often be unhealthy.
Not trying to preach or anything of the sort, but rather just relate my fan story to your fan story.
Sorry for the off-topic diversion. Just figured this thread has almost run it's course, so a little deviation is hopefully forgivable.
MSR.
It's especially frustrating when you feel you called some of these major failures long before they happened. Kubiak should have been canned NO LATER than 2010. Instead, we fart around at a snail's pace, have two decent years because Peyton was injured and Luck was a rookie, and then we're right back in the cellar having to fire Kubiak. Same thing with Matt Schaub. The guy had proven NOTHING coming off the lisfranc injury, yet what does this inept organization do? They give him a pay raise!
These types of decisions set your organization back years. I truly don't believe it's a stretch for me to say that I could have run this organization as well, if not better, than those McNair has had in charge for the last decade.
I can handle losing. What I can't handle is consistent ineptitude by the front office of a football team. Honestly, I'd rather save myself the stress and maybe it makes me a bangwagon fan but just jump on with an organization that seems to know how to run a football team.
Thus far, the Texans have not demonstrated themselves to be that kind of organization.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
If you think we won the division twice in a row only because Peyton was hurt and because Luck was a rookie, that's some seriously offensive, ridiculous, derisive bull****. Have some ****ing respect for the team you supposedly root for.
BigBull
Rookie
It's like you're reading my mind. I couldn't agree more.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
What happened every year prior to Peyton going down? And what happened Luck's second year in the league?
This is a funny post. I applaud the emotion.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
What happened every year prior to Peyton going down? And what happened Luck's second year in the league?
This is a funny post. I applaud the emotion.
Who the **** cares. We won the division in 2011 and 2012 and it had nothing to do with anything the Colts did or didn't do.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
I thought he should have stayed in College Station one more year to begin with.
He could sit behind Hoyer, maybe? Get worked into the starting position mid season or something... I doubt it though.
Having Gordon and Cameron will do him good. They're weapons.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
I think that whole Manziel thing on this board is overblown. I can only think of one crazy pro-Manziel guy and that was the dude trying to convince everyone that Teddy Bridgewater was a crossdresser.
If this was as bad as the VY love, the VY love must not have been very bad.
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
A lot of respect for not throwing his phone across the room when he found out he was going to Cleveland.
agproducer
Practice Squad
I'm cool with the CLowney pick. But when Manziel started sliding, the Texans disappointed me again. They had a shot to make a change to their mediocrity. They had a chance for a spark. They didn't do it. I'm irritated with this front office. I've been a fan since the Texans inception, but we've done this before. We had a chance to get a playmaker. The Texans didn't do it.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
It has not been near as bad...and yet still really annoying.
You are right, it did not get near as bad as I feared.
chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
Cleveland? The Jacksonville of the midwest.
The only way I would take Manziel late in the first is if I own the pick already.
I would take a flyer on him at 2.1, but he's gone.
I don't want another QB just to draft a QB.
Wish the Texans had been able to trade 1.1 to accumulate future picks.
There are some good ones in the pipe that have fair - to - good chance to become a franchise QB.
Don't want to settle for Bridgewater either.
Go big or go home.
I would take a flyer on him at 2.1, but he's gone.
I don't want another QB just to draft a QB.
Wish the Texans had been able to trade 1.1 to accumulate future picks.
There are some good ones in the pipe that have fair - to - good chance to become a franchise QB.
Don't want to settle for Bridgewater either.
Go big or go home.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
settle?
- Status