TEXANRED
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Say Watt?
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Manziel
- Thread starter Wolf
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Say Watt?
Texian
Hall of Fame
When you stop telling everyone how to run a professional football team....
btw, most folks agree that you cannot be a fanatic of a team and actively root against them. Is that really hard to comprehend for YOU?
It's really a "duh, no shit" obvious thing for most of us.
Let's try this novel approach, let everyone be the kind of the fan they want to be without your righteous or disapproving approval. Or any kind of judgement from you for that matter. How unique would that be?
Wolf
100% Texan
It was that fans were more of a VY fan than a Texan fan That's why whey wore the jersey.
I just don't see how fans can come into any stadium with root for the Texans and (for example) when VY steps on the field start,then they start rooting for him to beat the Texans just so say "I told you so"
makes no sense to me.
same will go if people start doing the same thing with Manziel
I don't understand it. I am in the mode of I wish such and such will do good until he plays the Texans
Just a random thought here. Bottom line is if the Texans think Manziel is the best for them and they feel he fits in Bob's system they will draft him, if not big whoop. Lets see what they can do with who they got.
kinda like a lot of folks booing the Watt pick. A lot of people are crawdaddin' on their pre draft statements. Lets hope whoever the Texans pick will have an impact
I just don't see how fans can come into any stadium with root for the Texans and (for example) when VY steps on the field start,then they start rooting for him to beat the Texans just so say "I told you so"
makes no sense to me.
same will go if people start doing the same thing with Manziel
I don't understand it. I am in the mode of I wish such and such will do good until he plays the Texans
Just a random thought here. Bottom line is if the Texans think Manziel is the best for them and they feel he fits in Bob's system they will draft him, if not big whoop. Lets see what they can do with who they got.
kinda like a lot of folks booing the Watt pick. A lot of people are crawdaddin' on their pre draft statements. Lets hope whoever the Texans pick will have an impact
drs23
Veteran
Of all folks to babble about "righteous or disapproving approval" - YOU, for real? I suppose your real goal in life is to be taken seriously. Perhaps one day your dreams will come true.
Let's make a deal: when you get hired by a professional football team to have ANY decision making power - even including the size jock straps they should wear - then I'll give you some respect that you seem so desperate to deserve.
Otherwise, continue to spew your vast untapped knowledge regardless of the little fact that you just watch the games like the rest of us.
Although, we might not grimace as much as you when we watch, so you've got that going for you.
Are you really attempting to argue that a fan of a team can actively root against that team and still be a fan?
We both have opinions. Difference is your's is just another in a sea of cheese to me.
Watch out, my friend! You too might earn the almighty Texian seal of Righteous or Disapproving Approval!! That - and $5 - will buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks!
How dare you declare your allegiance to the team over an individual player!
Fairweather gonna' do what fairweather gotta' do.
drs23
Veteran
DB made a very to the point, succinct response to you. Many folks tried to rep him for it and couldn't. I could, and did. I see DB's position as being to the point and frankly, spot on.
Really doesn't take long to finger people with a superiority complex, which of course is in their own mind.
Wolf
100% Texan
Hell I thought Cnd's picture was spot on. Manziel was a man among boys in Kerrville and he did the same thing as he did as A&M. He would roll out, buy time and no dispute what he did here and up in College Station.
I guess my concern is watching the Patriots and Brady (I am assuming Bob's offense will be similar but with some tweaks) . I just don't see Bob giving him the leash to freelance. I could be wrong..
however like I said. I do not know what Bob and the Texans system will be like.Also how would Manziel fit into a structured system? I don't know, they do
So I trust that they will make the right call.
All I can go on
I guess my concern is watching the Patriots and Brady (I am assuming Bob's offense will be similar but with some tweaks) . I just don't see Bob giving him the leash to freelance. I could be wrong..
however like I said. I do not know what Bob and the Texans system will be like.Also how would Manziel fit into a structured system? I don't know, they do
So I trust that they will make the right call.
All I can go on
HJam72
Hall of Fame
Some people are more a fan of certain college teams than they are Texans fans. From an outside perspective, which I have to imagine, I can understand that. Nothing really wrong with it.
BUT, you have to realize that these NFL teams just have to do whatever they think is best. VY had a ridiculous Wonderlic score and he wanted to play QB in the NFL, wanting to be selected #1 overall no-less. That's scary stuff. Manziel is a little undersized and wants to go #1 overall when his highlight reels are 95% him running around like he's Devin Hester on a kick-off return. The Texans brass will do whatever they think is best, taking trade offers, risk/reward, etc. into consideration. That might mean getting Manziel, but it probably won't. The odds were against every guy in this draft who thought they'd be #1, because nobody was clearly better than the 6 or so other guys.
I am from (well, 10 years living in) a certain town in the Hill Country that Mr. Football might be quite familiar with. QUITE FAMILIAR. I am right now sitting about half a mile from his High School stadium. I'd LOVE to see this guy in a Texans uniform. I'm not going to hate on the Texans for doing whatever they think is best.
BUT, you have to realize that these NFL teams just have to do whatever they think is best. VY had a ridiculous Wonderlic score and he wanted to play QB in the NFL, wanting to be selected #1 overall no-less. That's scary stuff. Manziel is a little undersized and wants to go #1 overall when his highlight reels are 95% him running around like he's Devin Hester on a kick-off return. The Texans brass will do whatever they think is best, taking trade offers, risk/reward, etc. into consideration. That might mean getting Manziel, but it probably won't. The odds were against every guy in this draft who thought they'd be #1, because nobody was clearly better than the 6 or so other guys.
I am from (well, 10 years living in) a certain town in the Hill Country that Mr. Football might be quite familiar with. QUITE FAMILIAR. I am right now sitting about half a mile from his High School stadium. I'd LOVE to see this guy in a Texans uniform. I'm not going to hate on the Texans for doing whatever they think is best.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
I didn't know you were in Kerrville. If you listed "over there" I would have guessed Ingram,Center Point, or even Comfort
Caught on quick, didn't you.
Guess I should've expected that, since you posted right before I said it.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
I didn't know you were in Kerrville. If you listed "over there" I would have guessed Ingram,Center Point, or even Comfort
Sometimes I see people with Texans jerseys on and wonder if it's you. Never have said anything.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
Yeah, shouldn't have said jerseys, actually, because it's been a while and it might have just been shirts. I don't remember. I think the main guy I thought was you was probably older. I just realized you're younger than I thought, for some reason.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
Yep. That's one thing that would accelerate if we actually got Manziel. Geez, would it accelerate.
Wolf
100% Texan
Kid you not. a few years ago I went to EVERY sporting place in Kerrville to find gear.. hell even HEB and Albertsons(being I was desperate).. only place I could find it was in Plano when I was at a mall visiting my dad there. I honestly couldn't believe it at the timeYep. That's one thing that would accelerate if we actually got Manziel. Geez, would it accelerate.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
Yeah, I've looked just at Wal-Mart a few times, but I just wound up ordering it. Most people here are still Cowboys fans from the 90s, but it's changing very slowly. I don't actually go for that a whole lot anyway. I have a couple of old shirts, one hat, and one large flag on my living room wall here. That's it.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I'm a LEGEND in my own mind.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Let's make a deal, let's agree that this is message board and that different ideas and messages are all welcome. And a message board is where you come to discuss, debate and learn about different subject matter. And that you and I can do just that whether anyone agrees with us or not or doesn't approve of what we may have to say.
I get it. I got it then & I get it now. I don't understand spending another $8M to figure out a guy who has not shown the ability to play this game at this level can't play this game at this level.
Vince wasn't even supposed to come out, but because of an incredible National Championship victory & the fact that the Texans... the Houston Texans, his home team, had the #1 pick, he decided to come out.
& there's no doubt in my mind that Bud Adams demanded his team draft VY just to give the good ol city of Houston another F.U.
But being the kind of fan I am, I went ahead & bought my first David Carr Jersey because I knew there would be a lot of Vince Young Jerseys, even though I knew we would be looking for a new QB in 2007. I appreciate the fans who wore the UT jerseys instead of the Titans' jersey, but I also get that a lot of Houston Oiler fans are Tennessee Titans fans & that makes sense too... I don't like it. But it makes sense.
Manziel is going to get drafted by another team. & if people wear his jersey to the game... so be it. Texans fans telling the F.O. that they wanted Manziel... I get it.
But what I didn't get, & to this day do not understand, is how in the heck could Gary Kubiak & the Houston Texans not understand it's not "just another game" when Vince Young came to Reliant. You win that game, no matter what. Whatever you gotta do to get that team pumped & play like it's their Super Bowl, you gotta do it.
Those fans walking in with those VY jerseys.... Vince talking about, "This is my house" There were 53 people out there plus coaches, GMs, & Owners who could have shut those people up, but they came out & laid an egg... again, & again.
The Texans were soft & that nothing exemplified that like Vince Young, his fans, & the noise they made in Houston.
Wolf
100% Texan
I can't argue with that. Kubiak for some reason liked to downplay "big" games.
I honestly lost track how many games where the "playoff" word was used and the team laid an egg. or how "the biggest game in franchise history"..we laid an egg, or "we are on national TV" and some.. well you get the picture.
Very frustrating as a fan to get hyped up for a game when it seems the Texans staff was lackadaisical or nonchallant about it..
well hell I don't need to tell y'all we have all been in the game day threads or the monday morning quarterback threads
I honestly lost track how many games where the "playoff" word was used and the team laid an egg. or how "the biggest game in franchise history"..we laid an egg, or "we are on national TV" and some.. well you get the picture.
Very frustrating as a fan to get hyped up for a game when it seems the Texans staff was lackadaisical or nonchallant about it..
well hell I don't need to tell y'all we have all been in the game day threads or the monday morning quarterback threads
FirstTexansFan
The Unknown Fan
Like you Kerville boys, I've watched Johnny play since HS. I stand by my trade down, but I'll not be forgiving if the Texans spend that 1st pick on a QB and it's not Manziel. Has nothing to do with anything more than my own experience watching football for more than 50yrs. He's the top QB coming out, and all the arguments to belay that are from those that have an axe to wield, or buy into the negativity put out there about the kid. I'd hate to see him playing for the Browns, but I hope with everything I've got we can work out a trade to build this team from the ground up, just too many holes to fill and one player is not going to accomplish those needs.
Maybe you misstated in the original post? Calling a respected member of the forums a jerk is bound to bring criticism. I know...I've come out on the wrong end of a few bouts with ICak. There are ways to say things and ways not to say things. If I'm giving this advice, I'm apparently capable of learning...whoulda thunk it???
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
Really? Has this been confirmed?
I would be. I can't think of a top 10 QB prospect in this draft with a lower floor than Manziel. Picking Manziel is strictly boom or bust with no middle ground. A lot like Tebow. There's no middle ground. All or nothing. Even if Manziel has a good NFL career, he'll be considered a bust if he isn't the 2nd coming of Tarkington or Young.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Sort of like if I am talking about your kid, I am being impartial and fair but if you defend your kid against my criticisms you are over reacting.
FirstTexansFan
The Unknown Fan
We'll just have to disagree on the bolded. Opinions, we've all got them, but for me, it'll be something I'll have to overcome. Like you, I feel I'm right
Right on... I forgot to mention that I think JFF has the highest ceiling, imho, also. I like him and I posted:We'll just have to disagree on the bolded. Opinions, we've all got them, but for me, it'll be something I'll have to overcome. Like you, I feel I'm right
in the Who would be your #1 choice - pre draft edition thread. I'm not a Manziel hater. I'm just not completely convinced that his game translates to the NFL level. If we still agree to disagree, then you're simply in love with the guy and have visions of unicorns and rainbows if the Texans draft him. You're being very unrealistic about Manziel and the draft, in general.
Texian
Hall of Fame
In almost every interview with a O'Brien mentor the one single consistent piece of advice that O'Brien constantly received was, MAKE SURE YOU ARE IN CHARGE. What do you think?
FirstTexansFan
The Unknown Fan
Nope, that would clarify it for me Doc. To use that 1.1 pick on a QB and it not be Manziel would totally bewilder me. It'd probably eat on me for a long time. I'm firm in my thought process we need to work a trade, and I truly believe with Manziel and Clowney there, it's something that can happen.
Oh, and a funny... I live in New Braunfels, Texas and the HS team is called the Unicorns LOL
Having thought about it a bit, I could even see trading back into the 1st to get Manziel. I'm still all over the place with this guy. LOL
I can see so much potential and so much failure. One thing is for sure, in my mind: JFF can't be successful in the NFL playing like JFF at aTm. He's gonna have to learn to stay in the pocket a bit longer. Otherwise, he's a much more expensive version of Keenum. With more talent.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Smith is on thin ice. He wont bet his job on O'Brien's first draft as a HC.
badboy
Hall of Fame
other than your opinion, anything supporting Smith is on thin ice? Just curious
Agreed. Too much speculation on who has what call. I'm going with the traditional set up. Coaches and scouts plead their case, the GM makes the call. The HC coaches up the guys the GM drafts.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
Maybe you misstated in the original post? Calling a respected member of the forums a jerk is bound to bring criticism. I know...I've come out on the wrong end of a few bouts with ICak. There are ways to say things and ways not to say things. If I'm giving this advice, I'm apparently capable of learning...whoulda thunk it???
The "jerk" part has been redacted from the original post. For those claiming Cloak has made informed opinions, all I've seen from him is blind insistence than Manziel is going to be injury prone and some comedic pictures of a retard dog running around and then lying down on his back.
I'm fine with criticizing Manziel. I just find posts like his on the subject to not be conducive to conversation. State your arguments about his ability to read a defense, his predilection to scramble, and his size, and move on.
No need to walk around acting as if you are the only authority on the subject and anyone that believes differently is simply a dumb ass. That's the tone I have gotten from CND's posts.
Not good enough. You should be banned and your entire family flogged. This kind of dissent just isn't welcomed around here.
The "jerk" part has been redacted from the original post. For those claiming Cloak has made informed opinions, all I've seen from him is blind insistence than Manziel is going to be injury prone and some comedic pictures of a retard dog running around and then lying down on his back.
I'm fine with criticizing Manziel. I just find posts like his on the subject to not be conducive to conversation. State your arguments about his ability to read a defense, his predilection to scramble, and his size, and move on.
No need to walk around acting as if you are the only authority on the subject and anyone that believes differently is simply a dumb ass. That's the tone I have gotten from CND's posts.
I kid, I kid... the draft is tomorrow and we'll have some stuff to really argue about!!!
I like CnD & value his contribution to the board as a whole. But... I agree with SayWatt on this. He's got all the talking points for being against Manziel, but not a whole lot of substance. I don't know why SayWatt singled CnD out though.
The hate is strong on this board.
& I really don't understand it. Chances of us drafting Manziel at any point in this draft is less than it every was for drafting Vince. It ain't gonna happen. Why waste your time telling everyone what a bad idea it is to draft JFF, when it ain't gonna happen?
FirstTexansFan
The Unknown Fan
Though I may not agree with CnD's opinion, I do believe him to be one of the most believable posters on Texans Talk.... I look to him for any medical evaluations when it comes to the Texans.... now I'm a bit ashamed he's not admitted to being a teasip.... he is a doctor afterall... and we all know UT graduates a ton of them
Are you suggesting Texan Players, employees or fans should've leaked info regarding VY? I'm confused.
I'm suggesting they should have came out & played to bury the Titans. They acted like it was just another game & it was anything but. It was a division rival, it was the old Houston team. & after that first loss, Vince saying, "This is my house." they should have vowed to take it back.
& if we couldn't beat him, they should have broke his legs.
Scooter
Funky
Going to re-state my opinion and put it clearly on record before the draft - either as an "i told you so" or to be used to serve me crow. I wouldnt draft manziel in the first two rounds. he is vince young. slightly more mental/emotional and much less physical. in the end, an awesomely exciting college player that isn't fit to survive in the NFL.
manziel will begin with a slight advantage. his entourage is celebrity success stories, instead of bad family and schemers. the result is the same though, too much focus on the people using him, and the maturity of a hamster. if i could pick him up in the 3rd or later, and have him sit backup for at least a year - time enough for him to distinguish the words "hype" and "job", he may be able to find that top tier potential.
on the football side, manziel's already been figured out. a slow rush and 2-deep safeties. make him sit and assess the field and his mental inability shows up. the kid has great instincts, and against teams that force him into creative situations he's able to be amazing. but, he has zero processing power - make the game mental and he falls apart. the evil part of me hopes he gets drafted into the AFC north, lebeau's zone blitz alone would warp his brain and cincinnati's rush 4/drop 7 would be crippling ... if someone (cleveland) tried to start him early.
manziel will begin with a slight advantage. his entourage is celebrity success stories, instead of bad family and schemers. the result is the same though, too much focus on the people using him, and the maturity of a hamster. if i could pick him up in the 3rd or later, and have him sit backup for at least a year - time enough for him to distinguish the words "hype" and "job", he may be able to find that top tier potential.
on the football side, manziel's already been figured out. a slow rush and 2-deep safeties. make him sit and assess the field and his mental inability shows up. the kid has great instincts, and against teams that force him into creative situations he's able to be amazing. but, he has zero processing power - make the game mental and he falls apart. the evil part of me hopes he gets drafted into the AFC north, lebeau's zone blitz alone would warp his brain and cincinnati's rush 4/drop 7 would be crippling ... if someone (cleveland) tried to start him early.
Wow. Not sure where to begin. As football players they are so vastly different that any forced comparison is a fool's errand. Too many folks are wrapped up in what state these guys played in. Manziel has a better arm, better accuracy and better instincts as a runner. He's also several inches and plenty of pounds lighter. Don't confuse hype and off-the-field perceptions of conduct into somehow making them similar players. This is one of those "If my aunt had balls, she'd be my Uncle" moments.
As far your analysis of how to "handle" Manziel, I'm not sure where you're going with it. Unless you're thinking that whatever team gets him will be running a pocket-only version of the Offense, he'd shred them with his legs. Sure, it opens him up to injury, but he'd gash an attentive Defense about twice before those safeties came up and drop-7 became a thing of the past. NFL speed is surely faster, but you still aren't going to see lineman chase him down anytime soon.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
We're talking about a guy who reemed a 3-time SB winning, future HOF qb on TV for all the world to see. Why? b/c he didn't like his decision making in the red zone. Of course he's not giving a 21-22 year old the leash to freelance like he did in college....b/c he understands that you can't live like that in the NFL. That more than anything is why i believe all this talk of the Texans taking Manziel anywhere in the 1st round is preposterous.
If he slips to the 2nd round......and even then it's a maybe.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Oh, I don't know about that. I'd say they're getting there pretty quickly and tonight when he comes off the board and goes to someone else they're going to be as loud as anything the VY nut huggers ever gave us.
It's really a pity that UH isn't a more prominent program. We Keenum nut huggers could have made a little more noise and then this would be the third time in recent memory that we'd gone through this process. Even with our smaller numbers it was still a pretty good message board ****-fit
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Very true.....so far. I did notice the "who's the 1st pick" type poll on HT.com has Manzy at dang near 50%.
There will be bandwagonal knee-jerks abound
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