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Wow. Not sure where to begin. As football players they are so vastly different that any forced comparison is a fool's errand. Too many folks are wrapped up in what state these guys played in. Manziel has a better arm, better accuracy and better instincts as a runner. He's also several inches and plenty of pounds lighter. Don't confuse hype and off-the-field perceptions of conduct into somehow making them similar players. This is one of those "If my aunt had balls, she'd be my Uncle" moments.
As far your analysis of how to "handle" Manziel, I'm not sure where you're going with it. Unless you're thinking that whatever team gets him will be running a pocket-only version of the Offense, he'd shred them with his legs. Sure, it opens him up to injury, but he'd gash an attentive Defense about twice before those safeties came up and drop-7 became a thing of the past. NFL speed is surely faster, but you still aren't going to see lineman chase him down anytime soon.
The "jerk" part has been redacted from the original post. For those claiming Cloak has made informed opinions, all I've seen from him is blind insistence than Manziel is going to be injury prone and some comedic pictures of a retard dog running around and then lying down on his back.
I'm fine with criticizing Manziel. I just find posts like his on the subject to not be conducive to conversation. State your arguments about his ability to read a defense, his predilection to scramble, and his size, and move on.
No need to walk around acting as if you are the only authority on the subject and anyone that believes differently is simply a dumb ass. That's the tone I have gotten from CND's posts.
Though I may not agree with CnD's opinion, I do believe him to be one of the most believable posters on Texans Talk.... I look to him for any medical evaluations when it comes to the Texans.... now I'm a bit ashamed he's not admitted to being a teasip.... he is a doctor afterall... and we all know UT graduates a ton of them
I found the pictures to be quite funny. Of course I don't get my panties is a wad very often.
Humor is one of the great things in life.
Oh, I don't know about that. I'd say they're getting there pretty quickly and tonight when he comes off the board and goes to someone else they're going to be as loud as anything the VY nut huggers ever gave us.
It's really a pity that UH isn't a more prominent program. We Keenum nut huggers could have made a little more noise and then this would be the third time in recent memory that we'd gone through this process. Even with our smaller numbers it was still a pretty good message board ****-fit
I don't see the groundswell for Manziel. Some like him, some don't. Most just want to draft someone, bring him in, and start winning. I don't care who is drafted, really. If the Texans draft every player I want them to, and still lose, I will call them a failure. The only thing that matters to me is watching a winning team in NRG Stadium. I really don't care much who I'm watching. And I think most fans feelings reflect mine.Don't know if anybody listened to 610 this morning, but Lopez was saying if the Texans don't draft Manziel, it would be one of the worst moments in Houston football history.
... and it has begun.
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2475692&forum_id=5
I guess it's nice to know that it's not just UT fans that go can go full on asinine when it comes to a player.
I don't see the groundswell for Manziel. Some like him, some don't. Most just want to draft someone, bring him in, and start winning. I don't care who is drafted, really. If the Texans draft every player I want them to, and still lose, I will call them a failure. The only thing that matters to me is watching a winning team in NRG Stadium. I really don't care much who I'm watching. And I think most fans feelings reflect mine.
There was never the illusion that Case Keenum would be the #1 pick in the draft like Young and Manziel either.
I guess all those Aggies dumping the Texans have no allegiance to Randy Bullock.
Here's what should (should have) happened.
The Texans sign Vince Young instead of Cleveland.
The Texans draft Johnny Manziel
The Texans keep Case Keenum on the roster.
Our fan base would devour each other in a sea of hatred.
Let's make a deal, let's agree that this is message board and that different ideas and messages are all welcome. And a message board is where you come to discuss, debate and learn about different subject matter. And that you and I can do just that whether anyone agrees with us or not or doesn't approve of what we may have to say.
I'll state it again. The point of my original post was to state that I can identify with the VY lovers to a point in their desire to rub his success in the face of haters (in the case of Manziel, I used CND as my main example) and if/when Johnny marches into Reliant and leads Jacksonville to trounce the Texans, it will be VERY difficult for me to not give all those posters that were anti-Manziel hell over the blind hatred of the kid, much of it due to where he went to college.
Texans fans fighting each other in the stands?
Guys who've been successful scrambling & running around with the ball at the qb position in the NFL have either had exceptional physical traits (Cunningham, Vick, McNabb Newton) or are so good at passing the ball running lanes open up to them b/c teams are dropping back in coverage (Young, Elway, Wilson).
Manziel obviously isn't in the class of the 1st group with exceptional physical traits...If he was, there'd be no question who should be the pick at 1:1. It also remains to be seen if he can be a consistently good enough passer to deter defenses from coming after him like they do all rookie qb's. He had spells in college where he was fine playing from the pocket (usually against bad teams) he had much more trouble doing so against better defensive teams. a few months in the off season working with a qb guru isn't going to correct that...sorry Manziel fans. Gotta see it when the live bullets start to fly b/c that's when guys start to revert to old habits. I also think you are severely underestimating NFL speed. If he can't give defenses a consistent pause to not come after him, he most certainly will be run down much more often than he will escape.
Here's what should (should have) happened.
The Texans sign Vince Young instead of Cleveland.
The Texans draft Johnny Manziel
The Texans keep Case Keenum on the roster.
Our fan base would devour each other in a sea of hatred.
You think the Liberal-Conservative, Christian-Atheist, and Pro-Choice - Pro Life mudslinging is bad in the No Spin Zone.
So, fanbase reaction if:
Johnny falls out of the first round and is sitting at 33. The Texans pass on him for...
Derrick Carr.
So, fanbase reaction if:
Johnny falls out of the first round and is sitting at 33. The Texans pass on him for...
Derrick Carr.
.... Who then announces that he's going to switch to #8 in honor of his brother.....
It was his dad's suggestion. He consults him about everything
schefter thinks whoever drafts manziel the owner will be behind the choice.
schefter says manziel will be the first qb off the board, either at 3, 7, 8 or 13 – jacksonville, tampa bay, minnesota or st. Louis.
Oh, I don't know about that. I'd say they're getting there pretty quickly and tonight when he comes off the board and goes to someone else they're going to be as loud as anything the VY nut huggers ever gave us.
It's really a pity that UH isn't a more prominent program. We Keenum nut huggers could have made a little more noise and then this would be the third time in recent memory that we'd gone through this process. Even with our smaller numbers it was still a pretty good message board ****-fit
I do not think the Manziel hype has been anything close to the VY situation in 2006. Similarities and shades, yes, but VY just came off a national championship, and let's face it, UT fans are a dime a dozen like Yankees and Cowboys fans when their teams are winning (no offense to t-sippers, just 47 years of living-in-Texas-observation on my part).
The VY supporters won the battle when he came to Reliant that rookie season, the infamous "this is my house!" game where he gouged the Texans D for a long run at the end of the game.
But, they lost the war when VY turned out to be all hat and no cattle. One of the bigger over-hyped busts in recent memory.
My attitude about "fairweather fans" that Texian took exception to was specifically due to 2006. I had Texans 'friends' in my section. We knew each other every year because of season tickets. Some even purported to HATE the Titans.
Then that 2006 game. Many show up in Titans gear! They literally screamed at us when the game was over like it was our decision to make. "How could we be so stupid to pass up a hall of famer like VY?!?!!!!"
Next home game they're back in Texans gear.
That left an indelible impression on me, which is why I have a strong opinion on the matter.
btw, I have nothing against Manziel. If they draft him, I'll be on board with the pick. If they don't, then on to the next guy.
Give it time....for me though, I see no difference in the level of homerism & down right idiocy of the 2006 VY nuthuggers and the 2014 Manzielots....even right now before the draft. Both have been equally annoying.
& brace yourself folks, the worst is yet to come. Come 10 pm this evening when the first round is over & JFF is drafted by another team.....the real hysteria will ensue. The vincepalm has never been more appropriate.
:vincepalm:
So, fanbase reaction if:
Johnny falls out of the first round and is sitting at 33. The Texans pass on him for...
Derrick Carr.
I understand the burnout, man. I really do. I was "all in" for the Oilers back in the day. My Monday mood was fully dependent on the game the day before. And every single year, the season ended in heartbreak.
But, I'd get back up, dust myself off, and be ready for the next season.
Then along came 35-3.
That game broke me from living vicariously through sports teams. I was depressed for a solid week, maybe two, and was certainly apathetic and thought I would never root for a sports team again. I had fun the next year, but that too ended in pain when Montana stomped the Oilers in yet another 4th quarter meltdown.
And then they were gone. That empty void is where I really gained perspective. We are merely spectators. Critical parts of the big picture that is pro sports, but passive observers nonetheless.
When the Texans were born, I jumped in feet first. But, with a caveat. I now understood the nature of being a fan. We root for the logo and colors. Players come, players go, but in the end, we root for the uniform. And like Seinfeld said, they win, we watch.
What is truly important to me in life are things that are tangible. My kids, my wife, my family, my business.
I care about the Texans, but it is only entertainment at the end of the day. No different than Star Wars, with the exception that the entertainment is a live product whose final result we witness as it happens.
So take a break, man. Don't let yourself get so wrapped up in it that it causes you any kind of emotional distress. That's not fair to you or those that love you, and it can often be unhealthy.
Not trying to preach or anything of the sort, but rather just relate my fan story to your fan story.
Sorry for the off-topic diversion. Just figured this thread has almost run it's course, so a little deviation is hopefully forgivable.
If you think we won the division twice in a row only because Peyton was hurt and because Luck was a rookie, that's some seriously offensive, ridiculous, derisive bull****. Have some ****ing respect for the team you supposedly root for.
If you think we won the division twice in a row only because Peyton was hurt and because Luck was a rookie, that's some seriously offensive, ridiculous, derisive bull****. Have some ****ing respect for the team you supposedly root for.
What happened every year prior to Peyton going down? And what happened Luck's second year in the league?
This is a funny post. I applaud the emotion.
texags.com is one big pity party right now
In all honesty i dont think he's gonna pan out....but cleveland is a good spot for him...they've got pieces there for him and he's got a pretty good shot go do something there...He's gonna need to sit though...i think all these guys need to sit for a year.
Alright, time to take the Manzlove to Cleveland.
Have fun being Browns fans Manzidiots!
I think that whole Manziel thing on this board is overblown. I can only think of one crazy pro-Manziel guy and that was the dude trying to convince everyone that Teddy Bridgewater was a crossdresser.
If this was as bad as the VY love, the VY love must not have been very bad.
I think that whole Manziel thing on this board is overblown. I can only think of one crazy pro-Manziel guy and that was the dude trying to convince everyone that Teddy Bridgewater was a crossdresser.
If this was as bad as the VY love, the VY love must not have been very bad.
A lot of respect for not throwing his phone across the room when he found out he was going to Cleveland.
The only way I would take Manziel late in the first is if I own the pick already.
I would take a flyer on him at 2.1, but he's gone.
I don't want another QB just to draft a QB.
Wish the Texans had been able to trade 1.1 to accumulate future picks.
There are some good ones in the pipe that have fair - to - good chance to become a franchise QB.
Don't want to settle for Bridgewater either.
Go big or go home.