infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Yup, year in and year out there end up being 1-2 QBs who make it with the occasional 0 year. So there is separation generally. Analysts/fans just don't see it, but it's there.
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Teddy Bridgewater
- Thread starter revan
- Start date
Yup, year in and year out there end up being 1-2 QBs who make it with the occasional 0 year. So there is separation generally. Analysts/fans just don't see it, but it's there.
If you think Teddy is the ONLY top tier QB in this draft, that's your prerogative. Most will disagree. Yes, Teddy put up better stats, he was stellar this year. (technically, he & Bortles had the same number of TDs and Johnny had FAR more than either)
He did hurt himself with the dropping of weight after the combine and then having a mediocre showing at his Pro day coincidental with his first non-gloved showing. Pretending that he's some "lock" as the #1 QB is wishful thinking. (That applies equally to every QB in this draft)
I guess it depends on what you consider "much". 5 spots, ten spots, a round? Folks like Nick Foles and Drew Brees sure fell. Sure there's others, but it happens often enough across all the positions. Psychology dictates that unless the performance is FAR outside the norm, it'll serve to reinforce your pre-existing fears/worries/concerns. So, if you were worried about TB having smallish hands, he likely reinforced that worry.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Two possibilities: 1) the draft media was wrong on TB and as we get closer to the draft and teams build their boards NFL evals trickle down to the media and they adjust, or 2) it lying season and TB is one of the prospects on the receiving end this year...
We'll know in 15 days.
TB=Dalton coming out of college in terms of accuracy. Both are accurate but not elite accuracy. IMHO
Same with pocket presence/mobility. Which is why TB has fallen so far.
Sorry still don't get it.
Number 3, OB disagrees with you and them. It was him who said there isn't much seperation.
Number 4, makes ZERO sense. Every draft is different.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
I strongly disagree, but we each have our own opinion.
TB completed 68% of his passes in 3 years as a starter in a pro system. Dalton completed 61% in 4 years as a starter, mostly in a spread system. Not many people questioned TB being the most accurate QB in this draft until after his Pro Day. On film, his anticipation and ball placement are excellent and he was widely regarded as extremely accurate until his Pro Day.
Dalton is probably more mobile, but his pocket presence was iffy. He didn't always feel pressure and was forced to scramble a lot because of it. When you watch TB, he rarely is forced to scramble because he is aware and gets the ball out.
The reason TB is presumed to be falling is because he didn't display the same elite accuracy from the film during his Pro Day. His passes weren't as crisp or as accurate. He also doesn't display ideal arm strength or measureables unlike some of the risers in this draft class.
revan
Waterboy
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Two possibilities: 1) the draft media was wrong on TB and as we get closer to the draft and teams build their boards NFL evals trickle down to the media and they adjust, or 2) it lying season and TB is one of the prospects on the receiving end this year...
We'll know in 15 days.
^^^ This.
MSR.
I wasn't being a jerk. I really didn't get the joke.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Texian
Hall of Fame
Most Narcissist don't?
Good one!
I'm good. I still don't get it but that's ok.
I gotta argue with this .....
I've stated for months that TB lacked arm strength and his accuracy was .... not all its cracked up to be.
He wasn't making downfield throws , rather he was throwing a lot of touch passes , throws he just wont be able to make in the NFL and if he does make them , they'll turn into INT's.
That I think , along with his spindly legs (damn they are skinny) are the two biggest questions.
Now , I might not be the consensus ..... but I've said it from the get go.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
The comparisons to Andy Dalton are dramatic. Dalton is the poor mans Teddy Bridgewater. Every thing Dalton does, Teddy does better. Arm strength is the only thing they may be similar in. And that seems to work out just fine for Dalton in the NFL. Andy Dalton was 4th in 20 and 40 plus yard completions combined this past season. That "weak arm" sure hurts him 
Accuracy and smart qb play are way more important than being flashy. Just ask VY and J Russel. They had lasers with no smarts and composure.
Accuracy and smart qb play are way more important than being flashy. Just ask VY and J Russel. They had lasers with no smarts and composure.
yup.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
I got no problem with that. We all see different things when we watch the tape. I just can't stand to see all of these Player A = Player X comparisons stated as fact/opinion with no argument behind it at all.
I hope Andy Dalton isn't your benchmark for an NFL QB.The comparisons to Andy Dalton are dramatic. Dalton is the poor mans Teddy Bridgewater. Every thing Dalton does, Teddy does better. Arm strength is the only thing they may be similar in. And that seems to work out just fine for Dalton in the NFL. Andy Dalton was 4th in 20 and 40 plus yard completions combined this past season. That "weak arm" sure hurts him
Accuracy and smart qb play are way more important than being flashy. Just ask VY and J Russel. They had lasers with no smarts and composure.
A combined playoff record of 0-3, 70 of 123 1 TD and 6 picks isn't what I'd be aiming for.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
The comparisons to Andy Dalton are dramatic. Dalton is the poor mans Teddy Bridgewater. Every thing Dalton does, Teddy does better. Arm strength is the only thing they may be similar in. And that seems to work out just fine for Dalton in the NFL. Andy Dalton was 4th in 20 and 40 plus yard completions combined this past season. That "weak arm" sure hurts him
Accuracy and smart qb play are way more important than being flashy. Just ask VY and J Russel. They had lasers with no smarts and composure.
I think the best comparison is Jeff Garcia. If you like Garcia you will like Bridgewater's game. They are identical players. I can only speak for myself but I want better than that long term.
TexansFTW
Veteran
If you feel this way, don't read the post above me, lol.
14 days 4 hours 45 minutes
Screw you Goodell for pushing it back so far, it should be this weekend...
We need to have a call your shots scoreboard area in this forum. I'm sorry, I know I'm probably way too competitive, but I think that would be cool. Then we could look back on it from time to time when we see something completely outlandish and it will make sense to us.
The scoring should include where they were actually drafted, their 1 year after being drafted eval, 2 years, and 3 years.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
That's the best comparison I have seen/heard.
While hoping for more, I would not call that a bust though.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I'd be down for that..It'd be interesting to look back on. As for me, as much as i liked TB in the beginning, i kind of fell back on him after his pro day if for no other reason, you absolutely can't put up that kind of performance in a setting scripted exclusively for you if you're trying to separate yourself from the pack. To piggyback off that, The glove thing was sort of pushed back to the forefront b/c of mediocore pro day...
- Maybe his performance without gloves at his pro day was an aberation seeing as though he hasn't played without them in like 4 years...
-Maybe its what he "really" looks like..who knows.
I just know i don't want that kind of gamble at 1:1 or even 1:15 at this point.
So if i'm calling my shot, i say that he still goes in the 1st but he'll be the 3rd guy of the 3 taken...probably somewhere in the 24th-32nd area. Some team in desperate need of a qb who passed on 1 with an earlier pick will trade back into the 1st to get him.
Someone will fall in love with Bortles' measurables and take him 1st..probably around the 3rd to 11th area...Manziel will go to a surprise team looking for publicity like NYJ or Dallas..or a team who's not necessarily in need of a qb at this moment, but will likely need 1 in a few years ( Arizona, Cincy.....Dallas.. perhaps SD)..and then TB in the area i specified above.
As for who i think will have the better career? TB of course. Manziel will flash early & be exposed later ala Mark Sanchez..Bortles will be a TO machine who will never quite earn his HC's confidence...ala christian ponder, jake locker.
& TB will be a good starting qb in the league...not an elite guy, but a guy you'll be able to hang your hat on week in & week out with a couple of flashes here and there...Matt Ryan-esque.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I think it's a NO BRAINER that the Texans/O'Brien select Blake Bortles with the first pick in the 2014 NFL Draft. AND...over the next 10 years Bortles will have a winning % against Andrew Luck.
On the other hand, should the Texans pass on Blake Bortles it will go down as the biggest mistake in their franchise history.
How'd I do? How's that for calling your shot? Going out on a limb? Stupid? Wouldn't have gone there? Setting myself up for the biggest oops ever on this message board?
TexansFTW
Veteran
Good stuff Tex.
Good stuff Texian, not stupid, your opinion/stance.
I'm gonna make 5 predictions:
1. TB will be the best QB in this draft
2. EVERY other QB will not succeed (LEAD a team to a winning record) and NONE of them except TB and Bortles will be resigned in 4 years to starting QB money.
3. Clowney will have a good, but not amazing NFL career, a lot like Jevon Kearse. Flashed early, faded soon after.
4. Kony Ealy will have the most sacks of anyone in this draft (for career, year 1 I think it will be close but I give him the edge there too).
5. Mike Evans will have the best statistical NFL career of every WR in this draft (when I say statistical, I mean Fantasy Football PPR, you heard me)
Good stuff Texian, not stupid, your opinion/stance.
I'm gonna make 5 predictions:
1. TB will be the best QB in this draft
2. EVERY other QB will not succeed (LEAD a team to a winning record) and NONE of them except TB and Bortles will be resigned in 4 years to starting QB money.
3. Clowney will have a good, but not amazing NFL career, a lot like Jevon Kearse. Flashed early, faded soon after.
4. Kony Ealy will have the most sacks of anyone in this draft (for career, year 1 I think it will be close but I give him the edge there too).
5. Mike Evans will have the best statistical NFL career of every WR in this draft (when I say statistical, I mean Fantasy Football PPR, you heard me)
Porky
Hall of Fame
Especially is he fell to us at 2.1 - that would be a bargain I would say. Or even if we had to trade up a bit.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
I would not be opposed to trading up to 1.26 or so to nab Bortles/Manziel/Bridgewater if they fell down that far.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Bob McNair
Bill Obrien
Rick Smith
.
.
.
.
God
If your name isn't on the above list...I say yes to the bolded.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
I hope Andy Dalton isn't your benchmark for an NFL QB.
A combined playoff record of 0-3, 70 of 123 1 TD and 6 picks isn't what I'd be aiming for.
First I only used Andy because someone else posted they were the same player. I said their arm strengths are similar, but it was used to show that it is no big deal in the nfl, look at Dalton. In the regular season he is amongst the best in the deep ball completions. No OPINION of anyone in this form can dispute that.
Next, Dalton is only going into his 4th season. I want better than him and IMO Teddy is. I said Dalton is A POOR MANS TEDDY, meaning Teddy does what Andy does, but better.
And for the Jeff Garcia comparison. :vincepalm:
The guy was mid 50 percent completion passer and was a 3:2 td:int ratio in college. Thats not a good comparison AT ALL. Jeffs ceiling (even in the pros) is not even Teddys floor.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
So with that logic Tom Brady wouldn't have much of a ceiling either. If you can't see the physical similarities in their games you either don't know what you are looking at or can't see the obvious. Jeff played until he was around 40 years old (Bridgewater only dreams of this currently) ....so I guess you are saying that Bridgewater is more akin to say Joe Montana or perhaps other QB's with good College TD to int ratio's like Andre Ware or Ty Detmer?
amazing80
Hall of Fame
No, Teddy is like none of those guys. There are 1000s of qb comparisons to be made and you pick the 4 people he is nothing like.
Garcia was a very late bloomer and even at his best was not elite.
Brady was also a late bloomer, but obviously is one of the greatest.
Teddy is more polished than both coming out (doesn't mean he will succeed, but I think he does). Teddy is ahead of where Tom and Jeff were when they came out, but he still has to do the work and make himself better. Will he do it? I don't know, but I think he will. His instincts, pocket movement, ball placement and ability to read a defense is something that cannot be taught quickly. I am a firm believer in natural ability and he has it in spades. Now add in a crazy good work ethic and a great arm (without top rated velocity) and you have a recipe for a potentially great qb. Isn't that what we all want? A great qb.....Teddy is the guy.
Maybe I remember Garcia wrong, never followed him much, but wasn`t he kind of a gunslinger? TB is far from a gunslinger, more of a gamemanger type. I think I would compare him more to an Alex Smith - a guy that rarely does mistakes, has a high completion percentage, is mobile but not a runner, and also rarely takes chances deep. Of course I`d hope he has a higher ceiling (he seems to have a higher competitive nature).
Alex Smith is a good comparison.
If TB tuns out to be as good as Alex Smith whoever drafts him should be happy.
Smith has good but not elite skills and plays big in big games. I also think Smith's arm is stronger than TB's at this time. Of course TB has yrs to strengthen his arm and improve his mechanics. Will he is the question, Smith did.
bah007
Hall of Fame
At first I was resisting the Alex Smith comparison, but the more I think about it the more it makes sense when you remember what Smith was coming out of college.
Lower level of competition (MWC vs AAC), underrated athleticism, thin frame (Smith is thicker but not really by much), accurate passer on short/intermediate throws, not great at throwing the deep ball, reputation as a quiet leader and a game manager, etc.
Lower level of competition (MWC vs AAC), underrated athleticism, thin frame (Smith is thicker but not really by much), accurate passer on short/intermediate throws, not great at throwing the deep ball, reputation as a quiet leader and a game manager, etc.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Mike Mayock: I wouldnt use a first-round pick on Teddy Bridgewater
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-use-a-first-round-pick-on-teddy-bridgewater/
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-use-a-first-round-pick-on-teddy-bridgewater/
So I guess Mayock doesn't believe the glove will solve his issues.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Yep, no magic glove for Mayock.
This is who I have been comparing him to.
He had quite a different take on Game Changers. Can't find the link but he said that TB was the most pro ready and his only concern was his frame.
Mayock seems to becoming more of a talking parrot than actually evaluating talent
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Teddy compares more to Aaron Rodgers in my book. good pre snap reads, accuracy, pro-style offense, strength is short to medium range, will have to develop long arm range like Rodgers. Does not panic, unlike Alex Smith. makes good decisions & keeps eyes downfield. Think Rodgers is about same size too 6020. Alex Smith on other hand is plus side of 6040 played in a spread scheme coming out of Utah. just my 
Teddy compares more to Aaron Rodgers in my book. good pre snap reads, accuracy, pro-style offense, strength is short to medium range, will have to develop long arm range like Rodgers. Does not panic, unlike Alex Smith. makes good decisions & keeps eyes downfield. Think Rodgers is about same size too 6020. Alex Smith on other hand is plus side of 6040 played in a spread scheme coming out of Utah. just my
I can see how Bridgewater fits your description of Rodgers, however I also see Aj McCarron fitting the same description. Then depending on how you define "pro style" (we've talked about this before) Bortles & Garoppolo can squeeze into that same description (both making calls & adjustments at the line).
I don't think Bridgewater is any worse than I thought he was when I first started looking at him back in January. I never thought his command of a pro style offense set him apart from this class as much as others thought. McCarron, Murray, Mettenberger all operated a pro style system with lots of success. Then you've got Savage who didn't have the production, but there are extenuating circumstances there that need to be taken into account. Then when you look at the responsibilities Garoppolo & Bortles handled though their offenses "looked" different...
But only so many QBs are going to go in the first round. my
Bridgewater is settling where he should have been (where I saw him) in the first place.
It's a fair comparison in projecting what Bridgewater could become. But not even close to how they came out of college. Garcia wasn't remotely the QB that Bridgewater is.
I think Russell Wilson and Drew Brees are very fair comparisons to Bridgewater coming out of college. Very productive, lots of exepience, undersized. Neither Wilson or Brees were 1st round picks. But in retrospect, they should have been. Brees has had the best career of any 2001 draftee, including his future HOF teammate Tomlinson. In a re-draft of 2012, Wilson would hands down be the 3rd pick behind Luck and RGIII. And a case can be made that he's been the most productive and efficient of the 3, thus far.
I know it wasn't your intention, but I can't think of a better argument to draft an elite talent at the top of this draft & select our QB in the 2nd round. Not that I think we can hit on a QB the way San Diego did, but because this QB class is full of guys missing one or two attributes of an elite QB prospect & only a handful of truly elite prospects at other positions.
& I'm not opposed to trading back into the first to get our guy either.
drs23
Veteran
...And he used to always say that you have to go back a look at the tape and Pro Days and the Combine don't really mean that much.
I'm tending to believe that Mayock is trending as "just another talking head". At one time I was all in on his opinion. Now, not so much.
JB nailed it here:
I added the period as JB's period button seems to not be working as of late but I agree with his statement 100%.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Mayock is as good as he's ever been. In this case it just happens that he's disagreeing with you. So you can say Mayock probably got it right and I am wrong or this time you think Mayock got it wrong. For me it's, in Mayock I trust 98% of the time.
In this case Mayock makes the point that he's never seen a top QB have such a bad pro day. Mayock makes a point that you have to be standing on the sideline and watch the QB throw the ball live to judge his ball speed and velocity. This make sense to me, for example sitting behind home plate watching a pitcher live, a 95 MPH fast ball is whole lot faster than any 95 MPH fastball you see on tv.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
He said matt ryan and cam newton pro day was brutal. He liked ryan because he's a BC product. He was also selling Gabbert as if he was something special. Its his opinion as a lot of people. Corey Chavous said Mack is hands down the best player in the draft. He said he even plays hard vs sorry teams and his number translate on the field.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Pro days are dumb and Jamarcus Russel proves it. He had the "best pro day ever" and you see how that played out.
And the comparison to Aaron Rodgers is BY FAR the best.