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Manziel

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mussop said:
All I know is every time I watch that scrony 15 year old looking kid, I come away shaking my head, saying how did he do that? I don't know how anyone could watch him and not be impressed.
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There's a difference between not being impressed and recognizing some flaws in his game.

I am impressed with his play as I was impressed with VY as I was impressed with a lot of other college QB's.

But in order for Manziel to be a pro QB he's going to have to get more comfortable in the pocket. That last play where he was sacked is a prime example. Instead of stepping up into the pocket Manziel consistently looks to scramble to the edges. That works against rice, but when you have other top tier athletes on the field, it doesn't work as much.

I'd like to see him work in the pocket a little bit better. As I said upthread, Manziel is talented and has a bunch of skills to work with. But that's one area that I think can make or break him. He starts to get happy feet and wants to start scrambling towards the sideline for no reason at times.
 
Rey said:
There's a difference between not being impressed and recognizing some flaws in his game.

I am impressed with his play as I was impressed with VY as I was impressed with a lot of other college QB's.

But in order for Manziel to be a pro QB he's going to have to get more comfortable in the pocket. That last play where he was sacked is a prime example. Instead of stepping up into the pocket Manziel consistently looks to scramble to the edges. That works against rice, but when you have other top tier athletes on the field, it doesn't work as much.

I'd like to see him work in the pocket a little bit better. As I said upthread, Manziel is talented and has a bunch of skills to work with. But that's one area that I think can make or break him. He starts to get happy feet and wants to start scrambling towards the sideline for no reason at times.
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Great Post

This is what will make or break Manziel in the NFL.
 
Manziel is a great college QB. But, his decision making is what will be his undoing in the NFL. You can't throw it up for grabs 3 or 4 times a game like he does now. He's fun to watch and all, but at this point he doesn't look to be drafted very high, if at all.
 
ljhog said:
Manziel is a great college QB. But, his decision making is what will be his undoing in the NFL. You can't throw it up for grabs 3 or 4 times a game like he does now. He's fun to watch and all, but at this point he doesn't look to be drafted very high, if at all.
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LOL

He will be drafted by a QB needy team in rds1-3.

To think otherwise means you're

A. A hater
B. Not very informed when it comes to the draft.
 
ljhog said:
Manziel is a great college QB. But, his decision making is what will be his undoing in the NFL. You can't throw it up for grabs 3 or 4 times a game like he does now. He's fun to watch and all, but at this point he doesn't look to be drafted very high, if at all.
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With today's rules & players like Andre, Fitzgerald, Megatron, B.Marshall, Demarius Thomas, Julius Thomas, Gronkowski, Jimmy Graham, Dez Bryant, Julio Jones, & I'm sure there will be another half dozen guys entering the league in the next 5 years..... he might be able to get away with it.
 
Rey said:
There's a difference between not being impressed and recognizing some flaws in his game.

I am impressed with his play as I was impressed with VY as I was impressed with a lot of other college QB's.

But in order for Manziel to be a pro QB he's going to have to get more comfortable in the pocket. That last play where he was sacked is a prime example. Instead of stepping up into the pocket Manziel consistently looks to scramble to the edges. That works against rice, but when you have other top tier athletes on the field, it doesn't work as much.

I'd like to see him work in the pocket a little bit better. As I said upthread, Manziel is talented and has a bunch of skills to work with. But that's one area that I think can make or break him. He starts to get happy feet and wants to start scrambling towards the sideline for no reason at times.
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He reverted to this badly at the end of the game Saturday. Needs to work on that.
 
htownfan32 said:
He reverted to this badly at the end of the game Saturday. Needs to work on that.
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That's something he needs to start working on now. He can't turn every play into street ball.

That said, if he can get more discipline in that area he could be a really good pro qb because he obviously has the talent and when he does need to escape the pocket in the pros could be deadly. IF he cleans his game up.

My guess is that he doesn't work on it now, and he will do best in the nfl by sitting and learning for a while.

I'd love to have manziel. I'm just not sure I'd want him with our first round pick.
 
How many times do we hear "throw it up and let Andre/Megatron/Fitz/etc a chance to make a play"?

Mike Evans is 6ft 5in 225lbs - you let that dude go up and make a play.
 
PapaL said:
How many times do we hear "throw it up and let Andre/Megatron/Fitz/etc a chance to make a play"?

Mike Evans is 6ft 5in 225lbs - you let that dude go up and make a play.
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Yeah, the last time you saw a QB do great things with not much for a receiving was...Brady? And Brees, arguably. If you don't have talent, scheme takes precedent. And if you have talent, you use it.
 
Aside from the interception, Manziel had a fantastic game. Look at his TD passes, because they were fantastic. Defense also came to play today. Aside from fumbles I was very pleased.
 
Attn: Haters

nitdgGq.gif


:tiphat:
 
Texian said:
With 10 minutes left in the 4th Quarter, Johnny Manziel has hung 51 on Miss St.
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The million dollar question would be , if Sumlin got hired by the Texans and Johnny Football was there when the Texans picked , would he go with Keenum or pick Manziel ?
 
I want no part of Manziel.. that guy is going to get lit up and destroyed at the next level. The injuries are already starting to mount in the NCAA. He will not last at the next level with his size + playing style. Buyer beware.
 
Carr Bombed said:
I want no part of Manziel.. that guy is going to get lit up and destroyed at the next level. The injuries are already starting to mount in the NCAA. He will not last at the next level with his size + playing style. Buyer beware.
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I'm torn on Manziel.

The guy is really fun to watch, but he's also an accident in the waiting with the reckless way he plays the game.

And then there's the off-the-field stuffs.
I don't know if I want to invest millions of dollars on a Hollywood-type; higher risk of burn-out.

I'll take him on the third though.
 
To reckless with the balk for kubiak. This guy thrives with chaos and he's fun to watch. Best throwing and improvising on the move. It's a shame because he has talent but kubiak wants - needs somone low key. Manziel isn't it. Manziel just might be the opposite of what kubes looks for. We want smarter and SAFER. Kubes doesnt go all in on qb's. Which is what manzel is....flaming torch glory or a dumpster fire.
 
powda said:
To reckless with the balk for kubiak. This guy thrives with chaos and he's fun to watch. Best throwing and improvising on the move. It's a shame because he has talent but kubiak wants - needs somone low key. Manziel isn't it. Manziel just might be the opposite of what kubes looks for. We want smarter and SAFER. Kubes doesnt go all in on qb's. Which is what manzel is....flaming torch glory or a dumpster fire.
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I don't get the Kubiak criticism when referring to Manzeil. We also don't know what a "Kubiak QB" is since the only one he's really had was Schaub.. however I wouldn't describe Keenum as "safe and low key" and we did have Grossman on the roster who was as reckless with the ball as they come. Watching how the playcalling has changed with Keenum under center I'm beginning to think the "Kubiak only wants safe QBs and needs someone low key" criticism is a bad wrap.

It's a coach's job to put players in the best position to succeed and with Schaub under center he had to play it safe. You can't exactly open up your entire playbook and run exotic plays for the QB with a QB as limited as Schaub was. He simply didn't ask Schaub to do anything that Schaub wasn't able to do.

If they decide to pass on Manzeil it'll either because they believe in their current starter or they don't believe in Manzeil's ability at the next level or they're scared off by his off the field antics.. which just about every G.M./coach in the league will look into and vet him, so again.. it won't be exclusive to Gary Kubiak. And if someone is a flaming torch of glory or a dumpster fire, than they shouldn't be a first round pick. First round picks should be viewed as can't miss prospects. I'm with 76 on this one though, if he falls to lower rounds, I'd take a shot on him. That's where you start looking at "the blaze of glory or dumpster" players. I certainly would not spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on him though, but I'm sure somebody will.
 
Carr Bombed said:
I don't get the Kubiak criticism when referring to Manzeil. We also don't know what a "Kubiak QB" is since the only one he's really had was Schaub.. however I wouldn't describe Keenum as "safe and low key" and we did have Grossman on the roster who was as reckless with the ball as they come. Watching how the playcalling has changed with Keenum under center I'm beginning to think the "Kubiak only wants safe QBs and needs someone low key" criticism is a bad wrap.

It's a coach's job to put players in the best position to succeed and with Schaub under center he had to play it safe. You can't exactly open up your entire playbook and run exotic plays for the QB with a QB as limited as Schaub was. He simply didn't ask Schaub to do anything that Schaub wasn't able to do.

If they decide to pass on Manzeil it'll either because they believe in their current starter or they don't believe in Manzeil's ability at the next level or they're scared off by his off the field antics.. which just about every G.M./coach in the league will look into and vet him, so again.. it won't be exclusive to Gary Kubiak. And if someone is a flaming torch of glory or a dumpster fire, than they shouldn't be a first round pick. First round picks should be viewed as can't miss prospects. I'm with 76 on this one though, if he falls to lower rounds, I'd take a shot on him. That's where you start looking at "the blaze of glory or dumpster" players. I certainly would not spend a 1st or 2nd round pick on him though, but I'm sure somebody will.
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Risk/Reward

Somebody will accept the risk. If they hit on Manziel they will be set at QB for the next decade. Miss and they will look foolish.
 
I don't like Manziel though I can't deny he's got insane skills when everything falls apart. I just don't believe that will serve him well in the NFL where everyone is fast and offenses are all trying to keep things under control during possessions. The first time things fall apart he'll whip out his "Johnny Football Magic Bag of Tricks" and surprise someone. Aggies everywhere will say "I told you so!". A few weeks later he'll be utterly destroyed by some DC who understands how to stop him. Shortly after that everyone in the league will have seen how to do it and Manziel becomes a footnote in some teams draft history with a note scribbled next to it reading "Should have known better".

One guy making **** up on the fly doesn't win NFL games for very long. A few weeks, maybe a season if he's on a team with some assets. It ends the same way though. Picks and injuries followed by "I hope you invested that rookie contract money wisely"
 
Hervoyel said:
I don't like Manziel though I can't deny he's got insane skills when everything falls apart. I just don't believe that will serve him well in the NFL where everyone is fast and offenses are all trying to keep things under control during possessions. The first time things fall apart he'll whip out his "Johnny Football Magic Bag of Tricks" and surprise someone. Aggies everywhere will say "I told you so!". A few weeks later he'll be utterly destroyed by some DC who understands how to stop him. Shortly after that everyone in the league will have seen how to do it and Manziel becomes a footnote in some teams draft history with a note scribbled next to it reading "Should have known better".

One guy making **** up on the fly doesn't win NFL games for very long. A few weeks, maybe a season if he's on a team with some assets. It ends the same way though. Picks and injuries followed by "I hope you invested that rookie contract money wisely"
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Roger Staubach, Fran Tarkenton and Archie Manning do not agree with you.
 
Carr Bombed said:
I want no part of Manziel.. that guy is going to get lit up and destroyed at the next level. The injuries are already starting to mount in the NCAA. He will not last at the next level with his size + playing style. Buyer beware.
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Durability will be the #1 knock on Manziel come draft time. I still think he will be a 1st round pick due to the excitement he brings. But, I think it will be from a losing team that trades up into the 1st round after taking another position earlier in the draft.
 
Lucky said:
Durability will be the #1 knock on Manziel come draft time. I still think he will be a 1st round pick due to the excitement he brings. But, I think it will be from a losing team that trades up into the 1st round after taking another position earlier in the draft.
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I keep hearing about durability, Rodgers is out, Manning and Brady missed seasons, Schaub missed games almost every year. I think durability applies to all QBs except Bret Farve. If you play QB you will get hurt. Not if but when.
 
Texian said:
I keep hearing about durability, Rodgers is out, Manning and Brady missed seasons, Schaub missed games almost every year. I think durability applies to all QBs except Bret Farve. If you play QB you will get hurt. Not if but when.
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Yes.. every QB gets hurt, but some have a higher chance to get hurt and suffer more injuries than others.

What you said would be like someone saying.. I keep hear about smoking cigarettes, but anybody can get cancer.

The way that Manzeil plays and the way he's built he's susceptible to getting hurt.. he's already getting banged up in the NCAA.. what do you think is going to happen when 300 pound lineman can move faster than the LBers at his level and the LBers can move faster than the safeties playing at his level? At his size, he's going to have to change the way he plays or he isn't going to be able to stay on the field very long. The way Manzeil plays, he's smoking a pack a day.
 
Carr Bombed said:
What you said would be like someone saying.. I keep hear about smoking cigarettes, but anybody can get cancer.
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Trust me there is no corrolation between somking cigarettes and playing QB in the NFL. And I never said such a thing. Those are your words you tried to put in my mouth, not mine.

Carr Bombed said:
The way that Manzeil plays and the way he's built he's susceptible to getting hurt.. he's already getting banged up in the NCAA.. what do you think is going to happen when 300 pound lineman can move faster than the LBers at his level and the LBers can move faster than the safeties playing at his level? At his size, he's going to have to change the way he plays or he isn't going to be able to stay on the field very long. The way Manzeil plays, he's smoking a pack a day.
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And yet he has never missed a game....and they also hve 300lb lineman in college who have landed on him. Manziel plays in the SEC where the best talent in college game resides.
 
Carr Bombed said:
Yes.. every QB gets hurt, but some have a higher chance to get hurt and suffer more injuries than others.

What you said would be like someone saying.. I keep hear about smoking cigarettes, but anybody can get cancer.

The way that Manzeil plays and the way he's built he's susceptible to getting hurt.. he's already getting banged up in the NCAA.. what do you think is going to happen when 300 pound lineman can move faster than the LBers at his level and the LBers can move faster than the safeties playing at his level? At his size, he's going to have to change the way he plays or he isn't going to be able to stay on the field very long. The way Manzeil plays, he's smoking a pack a day.
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And this is without even getting into the off the field problem.. which is a HUGE red flag for me.. All we heard about all offseason was how Johnny needs the structure of the daily routine of a football season and I'm sorry, but when your own father comes out and says he quit drinking to set a good example for you.. and he's worried about your drinking and your lifestyle, that speaks volumes to me. I'm worried this kid has alcoholic tendencies and in no way shape or form would I risk a #1 pick on a kid that has those flags surrounding him. We're already seeing it play out in Jacksonville.

Great college player (college, where a lot can be swept under a rug), I don't want him on my NFL team (NFL, where a camera is shoved up your rear 24/7.. especially at the QB position).
 
Carr Bombed said:
And this is without even getting into the off the field problem.. which is a HUGE red flag for me.. All we heard about all offseason was how Johnny needs the structure of the daily routine of a football season and I'm sorry, but when your own father comes out and says he quit drinking to set a good example for you.. and he's worried about your drinking and your lifestyle, that speaks volumes to me. I'm worried this kid has alcoholic tendencies and in no way shape or form would I risk a #1 pick on a kid that has those flags surrounding him. We're already seeing it play out in Jacksonville.

Great college player (college, where a lot can be swept under a rug), I don't want him on my NFL team (NFL, where a camera is shoved up your rear 24/7.. especially at the QB position).
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I have no problem with his off field behavior, he is in a fact a 20 yr old who won the Heisman and afforded many extra curricular activities. I expect immaturity from a 20 yr old hotdog. Once football season started he answered the call better than ever. What would bother me is if he was the last one to get to the office and the first one to leave. What the 2013 college season has shown to this point is that doesn't appear to be a problem.
 
Texian said:
Trust me there is no corrolation between somking cigarettes and playing QB in the NFL. And I never said such a thing.
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So you don't know what a analogy is..

Texian said:
And yet he has never missed a game....and they also have 300lb lineman in college who have landed on him. Manziel plays in the SEC where the best talent in college game resides.
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If those injuries keep mounting it's only a matter of time... and yes they have 300lb lineman in college, but not every one can move or can hit like every NFL 300lb lineman.. Not even in the SEC :rolleyes: I don't care how talented the best SEC team may be, they still doesn't come close to the amount of talent the worst NFL team has on defense. The NFL is a entire different beast.
 
Texian said:
I have no problem with his off field behavior, he is in a fact a 20 yr old who won the Heisman and afforded many extra curricular activities. I expect immaturity from a 20 yr old hotdog. Once football season started he answered the call better than ever. What would bother me is if he was the last one to get to the office and the first one to leave. What the 2013 college season has shown to this point is that doesn't appear to be a problem.
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Look.. I am a recovering alcoholic. What Manziel's father and mother said about him SCREAMS alcoholic tendencies to me... if he isn't already a alcoholic right now, if his own parents (who know him better than anyone on this earth) are worried and you're not, then you're just ignoring it.

When his parents talk about drinking "to deal with stress or anger issues".. that isn't just some "immature 20 yr old".. that is a huge red flag, its a sign of someone who is self medicating themselves with alcohol.. which is a big problem that shouldn't be ignored.

He's too risky to take in the first round.. especially when we already have another young prospect already playing great at the next level and a player that doesn't have the baggage that Manziel has. If you believe Houston needs to take another QB, that's fine.. I'll take another one that doesn't have the question marks that Manziel has.. there's plenty to choose from in this draft.
 
Carr Bombed said:
Look.. I am a recovering alcoholic. What Manziel's father and mother said about him SCREAMS alcoholic tendencies to me... if he isn't already a alcoholic right now, and if your not worried about it, then you're just ignoring it.

When his parents talk about drinking "to deal with stress or anger issues".. that isn't just some "immature 20 yr old".. that is a huge red flag, its a sign of someone who is self medicating themselves with alcohol.. which is a big problem that shouldn't be ignored.

He's too risky to take in the first round.. especially when we already have another prospect already playing great at the next level and a player that doesn't have the baggage that Manziel has.
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Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I don't know if Manziel will be come an alcoholic. I do know that Jerry Glanville traded Bret Farve because Glanville said it was Farve's ambition to drink every last beer in the Atlanta area. I also know that Manziel's behavior as a 20 yr old wasn't that much different than mine, although I don't think I would have been late at Manning QB camp but I never won the Heisman trophy. I think Manziel's problems are more related to getting the big head and maturity than it is a drinking problem. The redeeming feature is that he has put it behind, has focused on his priorities and produced better than ever on the football field. So far the evidence is on the side of Johnny Football.
 
Carr Bombed said:
Umm.. I thought it was perfectly fine. It all points to risk factors and how taking risks raises your odds that something bad will happen health wise
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Not everyone who smokes cigarettes gets cancer, almost everyone who plays QB gets injured.
 
Carr Bombed said:
Yes.. every QB gets hurt, but some have a higher chance to get hurt and suffer more injuries than others.

What you said would be like someone saying.. I keep hear about smoking cigarettes, but anybody can get cancer.

The way that Manzeil plays and the way he's built he's susceptible to getting hurt.. he's already getting banged up in the NCAA.. what do you think is going to happen when 300 pound lineman can move faster than the LBers at his level and the LBers can move faster than the safeties playing at his level? At his size, he's going to have to change the way he plays or he isn't going to be able to stay on the field very long. The way Manzeil plays, he's smoking a pack a day.
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Agreed

But Manziel is young and has the ablity for great improvement. I just hope the Texans dont draft him.
 
Texian said:
Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I don't know if Manziel will be come an alcoholic. I do know that Jerry Glanville traded Bret Farve because Glanville said it was Farve's ambition to drink every last beer in the Atlanta area. I also know that Manziel's behavior as a 20 yr old wasn't that much different than mine, although I don't think I would have been late at Manning QB camp but I never won the Heisman trophy. I think Manziel's problems are more related to getting the big head and maturity than it is a drinking problem. The redeeming feature is that he has put it behind, has focused on his priorities and produced better than ever on the football field. So far the evidence is on the side of Johnny Football.
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Umm.. not it's not (what evidence?). Not when there's quote's like this from his father. " “He ate Skittles, drank beer and won the Heisman.” So how do we know he isn't do the same thing this year when he performed at a high level last year?

And Brett Farve wasn't drinking to control stress and anger.. he was just a drunk redneck who liked to party. When you stop drinking just to have a good time and start drinking to control your anxieties that's where the problem starts.

The signs are there with Manziel.. Farve's parents weren't holding interviews expressing how worried they were about their son and how everything could unravel and fall apart when he was in college. A lot more is likely to come out during the draft process

Again, the guy could end up being a great talent... who again, I do want in the first round. I'd rather take one of the other QBs who don't bring the extra baggage and question marks with them. When you come to the NFL with baggage.. more often than not that baggage only grows when you don't have administrators and coaches constantly checking up on you making sure you keep your nose clean...you're left alone to deal with your own devices/baggage. It's why Jax's top 5 draft pick WR won't sniff the field next season.
 
Carr, Manziel has been working hard to become a pocket passer. He's tough for a guy his size. He rarely looks to run it when the play breaks down, instead he'll extend the play by avoiding linemen and running to the sidelines waiting for a WR to get open. He will *rarely* run it himself this season. He extends and passes to his 2nd and 3rd options in a way he never would have before.

But yes, he needs to work on it even more, or his stay in the NFL will be an injury ridden short one.
 
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