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Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB (Yates named #2)

Vinny said:
I was hoping Case would take a shot at the end zone at the end of the game but of course he didn't. He took the safe pass on some 3rd downs which came up short earlier also. Just on my observations I think Case is probably closer to our Cody Carlson than he is our Kurt Warner.
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Actually, I just finished reviewing the game.
That was what I wanted him to do when I watched the game live; not so much now.
There was nobody open in the endzone.
One TE was running a similar route to Lemon; another was running into double coverage; so was the right slot. Cruse was pinned to the right side line.

His choice was either crossing route; Lemon was a good choice.
The ball was a little low, but catchable.
If Lemon caught the ball (with a little better throw) and Cruse can put on a good block; there's a decent chance for a TD there.

It doesn't help for Keenum to wait any longer.
 
we lose - game's over if we don't score. I'd just like to see him put it out there for someone to make a play.
 
eriadoc said:
I was hoping that as well, but if you notice, it doesn't matter who is in at QB; they ALL do that. They throw short of the sticks, they check down on critical downs, etc. Schaub does it, Yates does it, and now Keenum's doing it. So from that standpoint, he fits right in.
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Like Billik said, when you're in the redzone, think either TD or check down.
If there's nobody open early, the QB goes to the check down option early.
The coaches don't want the QB to wait around.
 
Keenum isn't a gun-shy type of QB; he will fit it in there if he thinks there's a decent chance.

If anything, I would think that Kubiak is the one who doesn't want that.
He prefers a safe throw and just give the receiver a chance to make a play.
We've seen AJ picked up a low ball and gained a bunch of yards.
 
badboy said:
First, they signed 2004 Heisman Trophy winner Matt Leinart, a former first-round draft pick. Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

Later Sunday, the Bills announced they traded linebacker Chris White to the Detroit Lions for quarterback Thaddeus Lewis.

Leinart was most recently a member of the Oakland Raiders. He has started 18 games since being drafted 10th overall by the Arizona Cardinals in 2006. The 6-foot-5 USC product has completed 366 of 641 passes for 4,065 yards with 15 touchdowns and 21 interceptions in his NFL career.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...einart-buffalo-bills-20130825,0,6399520.story
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Jeff Tuel possible starter for week 1....no exactly the "plan"

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/26/bills-planning-to-start-jeff-tuel-in-week-one/
 
Vinny said:
I was hoping Case would take a shot at the end zone at the end of the game but of course he didn't. He took the safe pass on some 3rd downs which came up short earlier also. Just on my observations I think Case is probably closer to our Cody Carlson than he is our Kurt Warner.
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I was hoping Schaub would have taken a couple of shots at the end zone at the end of the 1st half and he didn't. You won't beat the Denver's and New England's of the world going short and hoping for YAC. Attack the f'ing end zone like those teams do!!!!! DAMMIT!!!!
 
Speedy said:
I was hoping Schaub would have taken a couple of shots at the end zone at the end of the 1st half and he didn't. You won't beat the Denver's and New England's of the world going short and hoping for YAC. Attack the f'ing end zone like those teams do!!!!! DAMMIT!!!!
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Overall, I don't think I can blame any of our QBs this preseason.
The way this team is built, I am very confident with Schaub as the starter and either Yates or Keenum as the backup.

The real question(s) are at the other positions.
 
Just rewatched the 4th down and 6 play.

Had Lemon caught that low pass from Keenum he would've fallen down at the 6. He needed to get to the 4 for the first down.

A better throw from Keenum probably would have gotten the first down, and maybe even the TD, but the TD would've been very hard to do because of the defender in the end zone and the defender behind him.

I'm a big fan of Keenum, so it pains me to say that Yates did outplay him last night.

I look forward to seeing a big game out of Keenum on Thursday night.
 
HouTx11 said:
Just rewatched the 4th down and 6 play.

Had Lemon caught that low pass from Keenum he would've fallen down at the 6. He needed to get to the 4 for the first down.

A better throw from Keenum probably would have gotten the first down, and maybe even the TD, but the TD would've been very hard to do because of the defender in the end zone and the defender behind him.

I'm a big fan of Keenum, so it pains me to say that Yates did outplay him last night.

I look forward to seeing a big game out of Keenum on Thursday night.
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That was exactly what I thought at first when I watched the game live, that Yates clearly outplayed Keenum.

Let me just leave it there; I wished that we had as much competition at other positions.
 
HouTx11 said:
Just rewatched the 4th down and 6 play.

Had Lemon caught that low pass from Keenum he would've fallen down at the 6. He needed to get to the 4 for the first down.

A better throw from Keenum probably would have gotten the first down, and maybe even the TD, but the TD would've been very hard to do because of the defender in the end zone and the defender behind him.

I'm a big fan of Keenum, so it pains me to say that Yates did outplay him last night.

I look forward to seeing a big game out of Keenum on Thursday night.
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It was still a good decision though. You go through the reads, and there wasn't a better choice.

If I'm picky, I would say Yates missed one earlier and Schaub could have done better too.
 
Leawood Hustla said:
I blame kubiak's ridiculous play calling. He goes spread offense 4 or 5 wide out before the last play and calls for a QB draw. Then the following play, goes back to a traditional 3 receiver 1 TE set and finally calls a passing play.

Why would you do that to your offense? The spread option 4 or 5 receiver set is keenum's specialty at UofH but you call a qb draw, the following play you limit his offensive options and finally call for a passing play. Totally detrimental offensive play calling by kubiak.
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Running 4 of 5 WRs changes the personnel and spreads them out. It is not an uncommon formation when contemplating a QB draw. Also typically the Texans have both a pass and run play and the QB decides based on what the D shows.

As for 3 WRs and 1 TE I don't see how you can complain. That does not limit the play calling. That is still 4 receivers and our TEs catch lots of TDs. In fact, a lot of the time when we run what looks like a 4 WR formation 1 of them is a TE split out to the slot.
 
Leawood Hustla said:
I mean why call for a draw? Isnt there a back up qb battle brewing? Arent you trying to figure out how well keenum can qb? Calling for a draw play in a meaningless preseason game is not the right way to go about finding out what you have in a QB.
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You call for a draw because it's preseason. You call for it because you know damn well Schaub can't do it and you want to see how Keenum handles it. It's a test. The entire preseason is a test. You want to see how your OL blocks it up, how your WRs do, etc. Pretty sure Kubiak already knows Keenum can sling it. That's not what he wants to see. He wants to see him run the plays that Kubiak calls. He wants to see how he progresses through his reads. He wants to see if Keenum will encroach on Kubiak's terrible clock management by trying to call a timeout a couple seconds before the quarter end.

It's preseason.
 
eriadoc said:
You call for a draw because it's preseason.
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How do we know it was a called draw? For all we know, Keenum made that call all by himself, after all that spread was his specialty at UH...


He may have taken a look at the defense before the snap, & made up his mind that he'll make one read then go.
 
eriadoc said:
Only if you accept the assumption that the scouting is done properly. Plenty of elite talent has fallen through the cracks. Foster is a perfect example. He's one of the three or four best RBs in the NFL (2nd, in my book), but he wasn't drafted for reasons that were not related to talent.

We'll see how it pans out for Keenum, but the talent evaluation on him was wrong, and continues to be wrong. His arm is just fine, he has more athleticism than many starting QBs, and he definitely has the drive, work ethic, and mental capacity for the position. The only real question was/is experience. He played in a weird system at UH, didn't take snaps under center, and didn't face NFL style defenses. So it's fair to question if he can conquer those challenges. I think he can, but we'll see. But I think any question of his talent is off base. He may not be as talented as guys like Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers, but he's more athletic than Schaub. His arm is at least as good as Schaub's. His mobility in the pocket is better than average.

RG3 had these qualities and also played in this funky system and he seemed to do OK last yr. LOL

Of course he did run a 4.3 and has a stronger arm. Keenum is more mobile and has a stronger arm than Schaub though. (No, I'm not advocating starting Keenum over Schaub.)
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technically, Keenum almost never ran an empty backfield.
He usually had one or two back sets as his base offense.

When you go completely empty, like Gary loves to do --
pass is the only option.. (or keeper)

TJ

thunderkyss said:
How do we know it was a called draw? For all we know, Keenum made that call all by himself, after all that spread was his specialty at UH...


He may have taken a look at the defense before the snap, & made up his mind that he'll make one read then go.
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steelbtexan said:
But I think any question of his talent is off base. He may not be as talented as guys like Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers, but he's more athletic than Schaub. His arm is at least as good as Schaub's. His mobility in the pocket is better than average.
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Lack of talent is rarely the reason players are not successful in the NFL. Fast isn't good enough for an NFL WR, you've got to be fast, you've got to run routes, you've got to understand defenses....

QBs have to make good decisions, fast. They've got to be able to see as much of the field as possible. They've got to anticipate the movement of several defensive players at the same time & calculate complex geometric-physics solutions in real time.
 
thunderkyss said:
Lack of talent is rarely the reason players are not successful in the NFL. Fast isn't good enough for an NFL WR, you've got to be fast, you've got to run routes, you've got to understand defenses....

QBs have to make good decisions, fast. They've got to be able to see as much of the field as possible. They've got to anticipate the movement of several defensive players at the same time & calculate complex geometric-physics solutions in real time.
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Not sure how you are using talent here...running routes, throwing with accuracy etc are a part of a player's talent. Do you mean pure athletic ability as talent alone?
 
thunderkyss said:
How do we know it was a called draw? For all we know, Keenum made that call all by himself, after all that spread was his specialty at UH...


He may have taken a look at the defense before the snap, & made up his mind that he'll make one read then go.
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I think you're on to something. Did you notice the way Keenum was grinning after that successful draw? I think, as the play unfolded, he saw all the DBs with their backs turned in coverage and took off through a gap in the pocket because he saw he had free-for-the-taking yards.

He tried it again about 2 or 3 plays later but the D was watching for it.
 
ObsiWan said:
I think you're on to something. Did you notice the way Keenum was grinning after that successful draw? I think, as the play unfolded, he saw all the DBs with their backs turned in coverage and took off through a gap in the pocket because he saw he had free-for-the-taking yards.

He tried it again about 2 or 3 plays later but the D was watching for it.
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The first play wasn't a draw. No one was open and he ran for yards. Kubiak himself stated that.

The second play was nothing like that. He didn't even scan the field. It was a called draw...not sure why TK has this fetish with Keenum going all rogue.
 
great pre-season battle with keenum vs yates. regardless, both backups have stepped up their game. i personally had keenum a slight edge over yates overall. he had a couple deep balls in the end zone and had plays like 4 and 1 and ran the ball for the first. he's going to be good. can't imagine keenum throwing to AJ, Foster, and Daniels....
 
While we can easily look at the QBs & say, "This guy looks good, That guy looked better, etc, etc, etc.... "

We really don't know what the coach is asking him to do..... There might have been a great TD pass, but IF the QB didn't properly read the defense & adjusted his first read, to where he missed the first/second open receiver, thereby not getting the ball out on time.

Maybe he didn't adjust to the hot route on the blitz? Still made a great play that moved the chains, but if he's not reading the defense, not picking up keys, not on the same page with the receivers.... then you're not really utilizing your offense to it's potential. We know this offense can generate 25+ points per game with "the right" QB (without taking many chances) & ~17 or so with the wrong guy (taking chance after chance after chance).
 
thunderkyss said:
While we can easily look at the QBs & say, "This guy looks good, That guy looked better, etc, etc, etc.... "

We really don't know what the coach is asking him to do..... There might have been a great TD pass, but IF the QB didn't properly read the defense & adjusted his first read, to where he missed the first/second open receiver, thereby not getting the ball out on time.

Maybe he didn't adjust to the hot route on the blitz? Still made a great play that moved the chains, but if he's not reading the defense, not picking up keys, not on the same page with the receivers.... then you're not really utilizing your offense to it's potential. We know this offense can generate 25+ points per game with "the right" QB (without taking many chances) & ~17 or so with the wrong guy (taking chance after chance after chance).
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Not going to disagree with any of those hypotheticals being possible, but as it stands it is just as likely that Keenum did exactly what he was asked to do.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Not going to disagree with any of those hypotheticals being possible, but as it stands it is just as likely that Keenum did exactly what he was asked to do.
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I didn't watch the game, so I don't know. It is very possible that Keenum did everything he was supposed to.... I'm just saying we don't know. Only Kubiak & the QB coaches do.

However, I know Kubiak stresses footwork, part of that is because it is the QB's method of keeping time. On a three step drop, that ball is supposed to come out on the third step. On a five step drop, it's supposed to come out on the fifth, etc...

There are many reasons the ball may not come out on time, many are legit, some aren't. If Keenum (or Tj for that matter) is getting the ball out on time more often than not... great. If they aren't getting it out on time for legit reasons... great.

If they're acting like Vince Young, not recognizing their reads, not making the right adjustments... but still winning games, you're playing with fools gold.

Let's watch Colin Kaepernick this year & see if he's actually progressing as a QB. If he's playing the same way he played last year (RG3 as well) I guarantee you he won't have the same success, either he won't play 16 games, or defenses will figure him out.

At the same time, if the Chiefs can stay healthy I guarantee you they'll make the play offs. Alex Smith probably won't get any credit & Jamaal Charles probably will, but Smith will do his job, no doubt in my mind.

Keep in mind, I don't care if Case or Tj "wins" the back up QB spot. What I said goes for both guys equally.
 
Is it a correct assumption that Keenum was put into more challenging positions than Schaub and Yates this preseason?

Third and long; fourth down situation; pass play from deep in his own end zone, etc. ?

Also, was he pressured more than the other two QBs, or at least responded better in pressure situations?

Or am I imagining it?
 
76Texan said:
Is it a correct assumption that Keenum was put into more challenging positions than Schaub and Yates this preseason?

Third and long; fourth down situation; pass play from deep in his own end zone, etc. ?

Also, was he pressured more than the other two QBs, or at least responded better in pressure situations?

Or am I imagining it?
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I don't think those are the things Kubiak is looking for. He's looking for the guy that runs his offense the most efficiently.
 
If Keenum didn't prove to his distractors that he's a future NFL QB during this pre-season then nothing will.

I see a day when Keenum is our starter. Or, if the Texans really **** this one up, someone else's starter.
 
Keenum proved that he could be the starter for this team one day, and I would like to see it happen. However, Yates performed well enough to keep his spot. This competition will happen again next year, and it will be even more interesting.
 
Thorn said:
If Keenum didn't prove to his distractors that he's a future NFL QB during this pre-season then nothing will.

I see a day when Keenum is our starter. Or, if the Texans really **** this one up, someone else's starter.
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Strong words, indeed. :chili:
 
thunderkyss said:
However, I know Kubiak stresses footwork, part of that is because it is the QB's method of keeping time. On a three step drop, that ball is supposed to come out on the third step. On a five step drop, it's supposed to come out on the fifth, etc...
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one of case's strengths in my opinion, is he has amazing footwork. his plant, mobility in the pocket, and foot speed are ideal. two plays stood out to me last night. one was a rollout to his left with the ROLB or RE coming at him and he was able to outrun the defender without ever taking his eyes off the field or taking his upper body away from throwing position (dropped by jean). schaub would've started backtracking to the sideline and thrown it away as the defender flattened him. the other was the pass from our endzone, case takes his drop, moves left and then up in the pocket, and fires a strike. great feet.
 
Thorn said:
If Keenum didn't prove to his distractors that he's a future NFL QB during this pre-season then nothing will.
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Then I guess nothing will.

Call me hard headed, but I'm still not convinced Kaepernick or Luck can be starters in this league.
 
Throwing rhetoric aside (IE arm strength, height), based on his play out there during preaseason, how would you characterize Keenum's weaknesses? I didn't see any instance of lack of arm strength or a significant number of batted passes.

I don't see a huge weakness that would limit him from being a starter.
 
foo82 said:
Throwing rhetoric aside (IE arm strength, height), based on his play out there during preaseason, how would you characterize Keenum's weaknesses? I didn't see any instance of lack of arm strength or a significant number of batted passes.

I don't see a huge weakness that would limit him from being a starter.
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I think he's done all HE can at this point for coaches to have faith in him. We won't know about his strengths/weaknesses in a real game vs real competition until he actually gets a chance to play in a game that matters vs other team's top defense.
 
paycheck71 said:
I think he's done all HE can at this point for coaches to have faith in him. We won't know about his strengths/weaknesses in a real game vs real competition until he actually gets a chance to play in a game that matters vs other team's top defense.
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Absolutely. Until we see him in real action against a real defense we will be left with nothing but his potential to discuss. My opinion is that he is for real, but until we can actually see that, we are all left wondering.
 
I think the phrase you're looking for is

"I'm still not convinced Kaepernic or Luck can be winners in
this league over the long term"

Because, technically they were successful starters in the short
term.

The difference between those two and Keenum is that they
were thrown into the fire immediately while Keenum is being
groomed.

Maybe trial by fire is best, or maybe the Aaron Rodgers method
is..

Gary just decided on option #2 with #7, we'll get the answer
a little later on I think..

TJ


thunderkyss said:
Then I guess nothing will.

Call me hard headed, but I'm still not convinced Kaepernick or Luck can be starters in this league.
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thunderkyss said:
I know. So was/is Ryan Fitzpatrick, Chad Henne, Blaine Gabbert, Jamarcus Russel, Matt Cassell, Kevin Kolb, etc... etc... etc...
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Perhaps you should reword something....like "they may be starting, but that doesn't mean they SHOULD be starting".

Just nitpicking. QBs are defined by their team. Schaub is better because of who is around him, not because he is actually good.
 
Thorn said:
Perhaps you should reword something....like "they may be starting, but that doesn't mean they SHOULD be starting".

Just nitpicking. QBs are defined by their team. Schaub is better because of who is around him, not because he is actually good.
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Call me hard headed, but I'm still not convinced Blaine Gabbert can be a starter in this league.

I think it works just fine, as worded.
 
thunderkyss said:
I know. So was/is Ryan Fitzpatrick, Chad Henne, Blaine Gabbert, Jamarcus Russel, Matt Cassell, Kevin Kolb, etc... etc... etc...
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When did any of those guys ever have a season like Luck, Griffin, or Kapernick? These three guys CAN be starters in this league, because they've already proven it... The only question that remains is can they consistently be elite starting QBs.
 
Carr Bombed said:
When did any of those guys ever have a season like Luck, Griffin, or Kapernick?
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That is irrelevant. To my point, or the question asked.

Carr Bombed said:
These three guys CAN be starters in this league, because they've already proven it... The only question that remains is can they consistently be elite starting QBs.
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For the sake of your argument, how are we defining elite today? 4000 yards? 12 wins? It's a moving target & as you've noticed, I have difficulty keeping up.
 
Thorn said:
If Keenum didn't prove to his distractors that he's a future NFL QB during this pre-season then nothing will.

I see a day when Keenum is our starter. Or, if the Texans really **** this one up, someone else's starter.
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I hope the latter isn't the Case.
 
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