TheDrifter
Rookie
Also, Im not sure how true that assertion is to begin with, especially for QBs who are probably the most heavily scouted position in pro sports.
The league has one UDFA starting, and only two more from the last four rounds.
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
Case Keenum grabs early edge in Texans backup QB (Yates named #2)
- Thread starter legacy_gt
- Start date
Also, Im not sure how true that assertion is to begin with, especially for QBs who are probably the most heavily scouted position in pro sports.
The league has one UDFA starting, and only two more from the last four rounds.
My comments do not contradict this one bit.
& that has more to do with his future in the NFL than any success he's had at the collegiate level.
Truth be told, I'm wondering why more UDFA QBs don't have success in the NFL. If it is important for a QB to sit for a year or two, learn a system & get acclimated to the NFL, we should see more of these guys to offset the 1st & 2nd rounders who get drafted & pressed into service early.
Because, by and large, early round picks are more talented than UDFAs. A rushed elite talent will always be better than a scrub who gets years to learn the system.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
The # of quality QBs is the deepest its probably ever been in the history of the NFL (just look at last year's class.. which Keenum is also part of). As more college spread & zone read concepts make their way into the NFL and with the way rules now favor offenses, it's going to be easier and easier for these kids to make a impact from day one and have succes in the league.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFw3ZNZQQ4M
I'll take this 'weak arm' any day of the week ... not to mention everything else he brings to the table ...
I'll take this 'weak arm' any day of the week ... not to mention everything else he brings to the table ...
eriadoc
Texan-American
Only if you accept the assumption that the scouting is done properly. Plenty of elite talent has fallen through the cracks. Foster is a perfect example. He's one of the three or four best RBs in the NFL (2nd, in my book), but he wasn't drafted for reasons that were not related to talent.
We'll see how it pans out for Keenum, but the talent evaluation on him was wrong, and continues to be wrong. His arm is just fine, he has more athleticism than many starting QBs, and he definitely has the drive, work ethic, and mental capacity for the position. The only real question was/is experience. He played in a weird system at UH, didn't take snaps under center, and didn't face NFL style defenses. So it's fair to question if he can conquer those challenges. I think he can, but we'll see. But I think any question of his talent is off base. He may not be as talented as guys like Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers, but he's more athletic than Schaub. His arm is at least as good as Schaub's. His mobility in the pocket is better than average.
I don't see the knock on talent. Unless you count height as talent, and even then, it's not like he's getting balls batted down or missing reads.
Hence the "by and large" part of my post. Generally speaking, those drafted in the first are more talented than those drafted in the second, who are in turn more talented than those taken in the 3rd, etc. Certainly scouting is not perfect- there are too many variables. Take a random UDFA QB out of a list and a random 1st round QB, and see which one you want. Odds are, it will be the 1st rounder.
Weak arm with a wet ball:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xVlMNrHct2I&feature=related
Notice how fart the kick returner was?
That's Carrier, and he's not even the fastest receiver on the team.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xVlMNrHct2I&feature=related
Notice how fart the kick returner was?
That's Carrier, and he's not even the fastest receiver on the team.
badboy
Hall of Fame
If the KR was farting around it might have been Jacoby Jones. just saying...
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Excellent point. I was just looking at the number of rounds, not the number of picks.
Yeah, but the pool of talent is much bigger now with many more football programs and a growing population. More kids are being developed at an early age with better techniques by more qualified coaches.
Technology has made game film more readily available in higher quality making it feasible to study more players in the same amount of time.
Road and transportation is better allowing easier access to all areas.
Compare with twenty years ago, for example, there might be twice the number of draftable players.
The tendency of keeping drafted players by coaches over UDFAs are slowly changing.
Last year, opening day rosters included 412 former UDFAs vs. 277 former first rounders.
412 is a number larger than the combined total of 5th, 6th, and 7th rounders.
Every team in the league, except one, had at least one UDFA starter on its squad.
http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball/index.ssf/2013/05/analysis_alec_lemon_zack_chiba.html
Interestingly, according to the same article above, there were 2 more 4th rounders than 3rd rounders in the NFL.
Also, there were many more 7th rounders than 6th rounders.
Can the amount of compensatory picks in each round account for the difference?
Look guys, I am not saying that just because Player X was taken higher than Player Y, Player X is better than Player Y. I am just saying that, generally speaking, the more talented players are drafted higher than the less talented players. Its the reason for the draft- to give the worst teams the first crack at the best talent.
It looks to be the case for the top two rounds, but it seems to be more of a scrapshoot otherwise.
It's really hard to know for sure (regarding players outside the first two rounds) because the higher a player is picked, the more teams have been willing to give them more opportunities to play.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
And even then they don't get it right. Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Charles Rodgers, J.P Losman was taken in the 1st in the same draft Schaub was taken in the 3rd, Troy Williamson (who?) 7th overall, JaMarcus Russell, Amobi Okoye, Mark Buttfumble (5th overall), and on and on and on.
Knowshon Moreno, Donald Brown and Beanie Wells were the RBs taken in the 1st round of the draft Arian Foster was not drafted. Glen Coffee, Gartrell Johnson, Frank Summers, Aaron Brown, James Davis and Fui Vakapuna were RBs taken in that draft instead of Foster.
There's no science to this. Yeah, you're chances of hitting on a player may be better with a 1st rounder, but a 1st rounder can bomb just as easily as a UDFA makes it no matter what the scouts say, what info you have or anything. You don't know 'til you get on the field and play with the big boys, the pros, the best.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
People are letting their desire to prop a UDFA let them stretch to some pretty silly statements.
Case's play so far has been good enough he doesn't need that kind of support.
Case's play so far has been good enough he doesn't need that kind of support.
Last edited:
I was going through the NFL rosters from A to I, and even I was surprised at the number of starters on all these teams.
You figure with 22 starting spots on each team, one should find just one or maybe two UDFA starters, but nope. Teams have two, three, and even four of them. Many of them have been long-time starters; some have turned in good season(s) recently. I was surprised at many of the names as they are really good players or budding young talents.
Interestingly, the Browns were the team that had no UDFA as starter.
Coincidence???
Show me where I have refuted this. Again, I ask you- would you rather make a blind pick out of all the first round QBs of the last 10 years, or a blind pick of all the UDFA QBs who have gotten a chance in an NFL training camp over the same time period?
Yes, I am going to say coincidence. There is no reason why the lack of a UDFA starter would be the reason why the Browns suck. You guys are getting ridiculous in your attempts to defend Keenum. Keenum's play is defending him, not some silly-ass half-cocked circumstantial arguments.
Nowhere in my posts about the number of UDFAs on NFL rosters has anything to do with "defending" Keenum.
You know me better than that.
I prefer to let the play on the field speak for itself.
We were discussing about talents and the drafts.
I just completed the whole list of all 32 teams, and I found it interesting that there are so many starters on them.
The highest number is the Pats with six;
There were 2 teams with five.
It averages out to about 3 per team.
That was much more than I thought.
And more than half of these guys are actually very good players with a few great ones at their position.
Showtime100
Got JJ?
I just clicked this thread by habit and realized I don't have it in me to talk/read any further on the subject until maybe next week.
Not even a complaint, just a spontaneous observation. Carry on.
Not even a complaint, just a spontaneous observation. Carry on.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Thanks for sharing!I just clicked this thread by habit and realized I don't have it in me to talk/read any further on the subject until maybe next week.
Not even a complaint, just a spontaneous observation. Carry on.
Nobody likes a quitter.I just clicked this thread by habit and realized I don't have it in me to talk/read any further on the subject until maybe next week.
Not even a complaint, just a spontaneous observation. Carry on.
I do the same thing, thread after thread. I'm also used to people not liking me, though.
Showtime100
Got JJ?
I didn't realize what I said was offensive. I actually went out of my way to say "not a complaint." Sorry if I stepped on any toes.
I love this thread. In fact it's been one of the more interesting preseason threads I can recall for some time and thought I was making a post laughing at myself more than anything. I'm sure to be back enjoying the posts after the next game.
I love this thread. In fact it's been one of the more interesting preseason threads I can recall for some time and thought I was making a post laughing at myself more than anything. I'm sure to be back enjoying the posts after the next game.
speedfreek
All Pro
Yates is #2 off the bench against the saints. I hope this means
Keenum starts against Big D.
(man I want him to look good against Jerruh)
TJ
Keenum starts against Big D.
(man I want him to look good against Jerruh)
TJ
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
TJ wins.
I would consider it a win if both Yates and Keenum were on the final 53 and back in camp next year.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
It does (assuming Keenum doesn't fall on his face against the Saints). Kubiak said his decision is not based on performance.. said TJ was the first one up week one, Keenum week 2, and he wants to rotate starts. Said he'll try to split the time equally and see how it unfolds.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
At this point, I think that's pretty certain to happen now.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
I hope so. As big a Keenum fan as I am, and I am, I only want him to succeed and make the team because he earned it. I was a Texans fan long before Keenum showed up.
I just think it would be totally cool if hometown boy UH QB college star become our NFL big time star. I'll continue to drink the Keenum Kool-Aid until the bottle runs dry. LOL
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
I hardly ever watched him play in college (UT fan..), which is why I find it funny when people act like the only people who are excited and support Keenum are UH homers.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
They both will have to earn the right to be on the roster; it's that simple for me.
Pretty sure they've already done that.. from here on out both guys will have to play really bad football and play their way out of a spot in order to not make the final cut. After what happened in 2011, I don't think Kubiak doesn't want to not have a third option.
I watched Keenum play a few plays in his whole career. And it was in his senior year when they were undefeated and lost that last reg season game. That's it.
But I have gone back and watched some clips and I've seen every snap he's taken as a Texan.
I'm excited about him too. He has a presence about himself this season. And the way he moves and makes quick decisions and quickly gets the ball out with accuracy and velocity is very impressive.
I hope we don't see Tj at all against Dallas.
It should be Keenum, then McGee. Give McGee a chance to win a spot with someone.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Wow, it isn't often you see someone pull off a triple negative.
That was pretty good though!
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Amen to that.
eriadoc
Texan-American
As fun as it is to watch Keenum progress and battle it out with Yates, I think we can all agree with that. This sort of interest is what the preseason is for.
speedfreek
All Pro
Watching the seahawks v. packers I am impressed with the
play of the seahawks o-line. Wilson has a ton of time to look
all over the field.
I think a lot of that is due to his ability to run keeping guys
from just bull-rushing him. They have to hold up to see if
he keeps on the option, and that really buys more time to
go through your progressions..
I would still love to see Gary give Case more 4-wide and
no back sets. Adopting some of these collegiate offenses
has sure helped a few teams.
TJ
play of the seahawks o-line. Wilson has a ton of time to look
all over the field.
I think a lot of that is due to his ability to run keeping guys
from just bull-rushing him. They have to hold up to see if
he keeps on the option, and that really buys more time to
go through your progressions..
I would still love to see Gary give Case more 4-wide and
no back sets. Adopting some of these collegiate offenses
has sure helped a few teams.
TJ
BullBlitz
Section 331
Actually I'd like to see each of them get some playing time.
Not to derail this thread with an actual quote or two from the decision maker...
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/a...ugust-23/d38d84ea-2bcc-475a-9a6f-1b70c92b3ba1
(on who will come in at quarterback after QB Matt Schaub) (QB) T.J. (Yates) will go second in this game. What I hope to do is, when Matt does leave the game, whatever is left, I hope to split the time. But T.J. will be the second guy to go.
(on the decision about how to determine whether QBs T.J. Yates and Case Keenum would come in second) No, really just kind of went back and forth. T.J. did it the first week and then Case will probably start the game next Thursday depending on how we come out of this. I just think its important that we look at equal reps and thats what were doing. Theyve almost got equal throws. Theyve almost got equal plays. Thats what we want to be able to do.
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/a...ugust-23/d38d84ea-2bcc-475a-9a6f-1b70c92b3ba1
(on who will come in at quarterback after QB Matt Schaub) (QB) T.J. (Yates) will go second in this game. What I hope to do is, when Matt does leave the game, whatever is left, I hope to split the time. But T.J. will be the second guy to go.
(on the decision about how to determine whether QBs T.J. Yates and Case Keenum would come in second) No, really just kind of went back and forth. T.J. did it the first week and then Case will probably start the game next Thursday depending on how we come out of this. I just think its important that we look at equal reps and thats what were doing. Theyve almost got equal throws. Theyve almost got equal plays. Thats what we want to be able to do.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Wow, it isn't often you see someone pull off a triple negative.
I didn't even realize I did that.leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
I won't debate the whole point and I always like to use my opinion as a disclaimer. In the case of case,he doesn't have any special qualities.Size,speed,arm,footwork,mobility,etc. In a debate,one could always throw out brady.Brady is the exception more than the rule. Just like brees and wilson are exceptions when the height discussion is involved.If we were just comparing case to schaub,another guy without special qualities,we could say case is a smaller schaub with better feet. A small schaub with better feet will not win a superbowl. So what's the point?
I think case is up against it on this team. I think they're giving him a good look to decide whether or not they want to keep 3qbs or not. With the emergence of guys like jefferson and a guy like posey coming back quicker than expected,case might be back on practice squad. That's not a bad place to be honestly.They can't try to hide some of their emerging young players. I doubt a team would take keenam and put him on the active roster. Jmo.