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3rd round Sam Montgomery DE/OLB

Back during the draft when that Strength coach's note talking about selfish players who weren't working hard was passed around, I didn't pay that much mind. From what I'd heard, Montgomery missed a single workout and the guy put that up there. But, from what I'd heard, Montgomery hadn't missed any workouts since then.

BUT.

This is very troubling.

I expect the leaders of our team to light a fire under this guy's ass but it's still very troubling.
 
Rey said:
I like that Swearinger is already comfortable telling guys to step up...

As far as Montgomery goes, this isn't a great sign. Sounds like he has some maturing to do.

It's not like the coaches checking to see if he's in good shape is a pop quiz.
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Yup, and that's bad news for him from what I've gathered over Kubiak's tenure. Foster didn't see the field until the end of the season. A season where our running game was horrible. Hope he's able to get his mind right. Otherwise, we can scratch him off the depth chart for most of this year.
 
HOU-TEX said:
Yup, and that's bad news for him from what I've gathered over Kubiak's tenure. Foster didn't see the field until the end of the season. A season where our running game was horrible. Hope he's able to get his mind right. Otherwise, we can scratch him off the depth chart for most of this year.
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I was expecting a 4-man OLB rotation with Reed and Williams on the strong side and Mercilus and Montgomery on the weak.

But now... I'm expecting a 3-man OLB rotation with Williams backing up both strong and weak... unless Braman steps up.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
I was expecting a 4-man OLB rotation with Reed and Williams on the strong side and Mercilus and Montgomery on the weak.

But now... I'm expecting a 3-man OLB rotation with Williams backing up both strong and weak... unless Braman steps up.
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Agreed. I painted a pretty bleak picture. There's a very good chance he gets right quick, but it's not looking great.

I've heard some very good things about this Jefferson cat. He'll be one of my key focuses throughout camp.
 
I think Braman was already ahead of those guys unless they proved to be better. When Reed was playing inside, Braman was starting outside.

I always expected Braman to be in the rotation this year unless the two rookies proved to be really good.
 
We've got very little information about what the actual issue was. We're letting our imaginations run wild here.

This just might be a little push saying, "We know you've got what it takes to be great, we need you to be great this year."

What he's been doing so far could have been great for 80% of the teams in the league for all we know & we're just telling him we expect better.
 
thunderkyss said:
We've got very little information about what the actual issue was. We're letting our imaginations run wild here.
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We don't know for sure, but we have several reports of him not being in good enough shape and then we have three teammates coming out and not only not denying those reports, but making comments that seem to support it's validity.

You have Swearinger saying that Montgomery is on the "list" and that he basically told him to get it in gear...You have Watt saying something about helping him get his stuff together...And then Antonio comments that it's better than it happened now rather than later.

I think at this point it's pretty much confirmed that he was not in shape.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Back during the draft when that Strength coach's note talking about selfish players who weren't working hard was passed around, I didn't pay that much mind. From what I'd heard, Montgomery missed a single workout and the guy put that up there. But, from what I'd heard, Montgomery hadn't missed any workouts since then.

BUT.

This is very troubling.

I expect the leaders of our team to light a fire under this guy's ass but it's still very troubling.
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Yep...
 
Rey said:
We don't know for sure, but we have several reports of him not being in good enough shape...
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The only report I've seen saying he was out of shape was one from McCain. The guy with less access to the Texans than Bud Adams.

Then someone else posted here that the Texans don't even use a "conditioning" test.

Rey said:
and then we have three teammates coming out and not only not denying those reports, but making comments that seem to support it's validity.

You have Swearinger saying that Montgomery is on the "list" and that he basically told him to get it in gear...You have Watt saying something about helping him get his stuff together...And then Antonio comments that it's better than it happened now rather than later.
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True, I'm still trying to figure that out.

Rey said:
I think at this point it's pretty much confirmed that he was not in shape.
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You ever hear of anyone described as "hard-headed"?

That's me. Not dumb, not slow, but a severe distrust of anyone not me.
 
As I've said before conditioning tests are usually worthless. We are not the only team that doesn't use formal conditioning tests. Some only use them if you've missed OTAs and mini-camps. Many are given in air conditioning. Most that are given, are performed without pads and other equipment. Physicians and trained personnel can pretty well tell if a player is in or out of shape upon basic examination and testing that does not entail so-called formal "conditioning tests."

BTW, I would trust John McClain to be a connoisseur of recognizing:D "out of shape."
 
Reactivated off the PUP list. Didn't take long.

James Palmer @JPalmerCSN
Rookies OT Brennan Williams and OLB Sam Montgomery have been activated off of the PUP and non football injury lists respectively #texanstalk
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paycheck71 said:
Reactivated off the PUP list. Didn't take long.
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Quote:
James Palmer @JPalmerCSN
Rookies OT Brennan Williams and OLB Sam Montgomery have been activated off of the PUP and non football injury lists respectively #texanstalk

So this means Brennan Williams is cleared for contact drills after his scope about 3 weeks ago?

Does this mean now that we'll see a full blown big boy cat fight for RT from the beginning by two guys that are recovering from surgery?

Does that time frame sound legit Doc? Cush fully recovered from his patella tendon surgery with no set backs but I don't recall the time frame.
 
drs23 said:
So this means Brennan Williams is cleared for contact drills after his scope about 3 weeks ago?
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According to quotes in the Training camp thread, looks like Brennan is going to kick somebody's a55 if they don't let him play tomorrow.


Also sounds as if Montgomery "appears" fit & this "out of shape" stuff was mental mind-tricks. All the comments from Jj & Antonio and all sounds as if the whole defense read his draft report & are on the same page
 
Montgomery said his issue was caused by poor eating .... Whataburger, Taco Bell, etc.

Williams comment I think was tongue in cheek.
 
Playoffs said:
Montgomery said his issue was caused by poor eating .... Whataburger, Taco Bell, etc.
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Again, he was put on the list, then taken off the list.... what did he do, starve himself & sweat off the water weight?

From the training camp thread
Stephanie Stradley ‏@StephStradley 15m

He tweeked ankle a bit, held out for part of practice. Surprised he looks fitter than at OTAs -- Report on how Montgomery looks
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Dave Zangaro ‏@DZangaro
Sam Montgomery looked like he was in pretty good shape. Rolled his ankle a little bit but rejoined the team shortly after. #TexansTalk
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I don't think there was a real "out of shape" issue? I mean if it could be corrected in one afternoon, how bad could it have been?
 
drs23 said:
Quote:
James Palmer @JPalmerCSN
Rookies OT Brennan Williams and OLB Sam Montgomery have been activated off of the PUP and non football injury lists respectively #texanstalk

So this means Brennan Williams is cleared for contact drills after his scope about 3 weeks ago?

Does this mean now that we'll see a full blown big boy cat fight for RT from the beginning by two guys that are recovering from surgery?

Does that time frame sound legit Doc? Cush fully recovered from his patella tendon surgery with no set backs but I don't recall the time frame.
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Sorry, drs..........I accidentally placed the answer to your post in the Montgomery thread. William's surgery was NOT only 3 weeks ago.

Here is you answer to the Williams question and the Cushing question (which I believe you asked in the context of Newton [it wasn't clear]):

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2185438&postcount=100
 
thunderkyss said:
Again, he was put on the list, then taken off the list.... what did he do, starve himself & sweat off the water weight?

From the training camp thread


I don't think there was a real "out of shape" issue? I mean if it could be corrected in one afternoon, how bad could it have been?
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Tape does wonders..........temporarily.........
 
After the Texans have been waffling on Montgomery's ankle injury again being a minor sprain, when I saw him in a boot the next day, I stated that it was either a serious ankle sprain or most likely a high ankle sprain. Rich Lord on 610 this past few minutes stated that Kubiak has now for the first time confirmed that Montgomery is dealing with a high ankle sprain.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
After the Texans have been waffling on Montgomery's ankle injury again being a minor sprain, when I saw him in a boot the next day, I stated that it was either a serious ankle sprain or most likely a high ankle sprain. Rich Lord on 610 this past few minutes stated that Kubiak has now for the first time confirmed that Montgomery is dealing with a high ankle sprain.
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Why did they him off the boot, Doc?
 
76Texan said:
Why did they him off the boot, Doc?
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I can't be entirely sure. Boots are not usually used for Grade I run of the mill LATERAL ankle sprains. Those can usually rely on ankle taping and/or bracing. Boots are usually reserved for more serious Grade II or III lateral ankle sprains or high ankle sprains where total rest and support is desired for varying periods of time. With moderate lateral sprains, the boot may be removed relatively early to begin rehab strengthening. With high ankle sprains, there is usually a significantly longer "rest" and protective period. Of course, Montgomery is so far behind, the Texans certainly had to have been worried that they were running out of time to make him a functional part of this season. Could they be pushing him beyond the recommended schedule, hoping against odds? Would that surprise you?
 
Texian said:
The old high ankle sprain, at this point I think Sam Montgomery has a better chance of making IR than he does the 53 man roster. Currently Sam is 3 deep on the depth chart and is not climbing up anytime to soon.

Depth Chart: http://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthcharts.aspx
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I wouldn't put much faith in that depth chart.

They've got Ryan Harris as the backup LT when I think he's in the running for the RT spot right now and at the very least the #2 RT. No way Brennan Williams is the #2 RT with the amount of time he's missed.

And with the WRs, it's kind of a mess. They should have a separate spot for the slot receivers. If I were to rank the WRs, I think they go more like this:

1. AJ
2. Hopkins
3. Keshawn Martin - Slot
4. Lestar Jean - AJ Backup
5. Devier Posey - Hopkins Backup
6. Alan Bonner - Slot?
7. Jeff Maehl

The way they've got it set up, it looks like Martin is the #5 or #6 receiver and on par with Bonner. I don't think that's accurate.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
1. AJ
2. Hopkins
3. Keshawn Martin - Slot
4. Lestar Jean - AJ Backup
5. Devier Posey - Hopkins Backup
6. Alan Bonner - Slot?
7. Jeff Maehl

The way they've got it set up, it looks like Martin is the #5 or #6 receiver and on par with Bonner. I don't think that's accurate.
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I think we're saying the same thing, but they way I see it is

1. Andre - Posey - LeStar
2. DeAndre - LeStar - Maehl
4. Keshawn - Bonner
 
From the two lists above, I come away at this point with reservations on 2 players on the list.

From what I've seen in past seasons and heard during the offseason and TC, Jean (as much as I've always had high hopes for him) is still trying to catch many of the balls thrown to him with his body instead of his hands........and as such is still dropping balls that he shouldn't.

As far as Posey, he showed great potential at the end of last season before his Achilles. However, I would be very guarded on depending on him to "functionally" return early in the season.....or expecting to see the Posey we are wanting to see until at least before the end of the season, if we see that Posey ever again. An Achilles can be much more tested in a WR than a RB (as well as other positions), in that explosiveness and stresses on the healing tendon must be "maxed" as a WR more than a RB...........with additional forceful high velocity moves of stop and go (slower for a RB).........and fast cut-backs towards the QB (a move not really required by a RB). This is not to even mention the explosiveness necessary to repeatedly jumping high..............and having to sustain the hard and sudden impacts (extreme stress on the Achilles) when coming back down.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think we're saying the same thing, but they way I see it is

1. Andre - Posey - LeStar
2. DeAndre - LeStar - Maehl
4. Keshawn - Bonner
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I've heard that Nwhateverachu is looking very good in camp. He has speed to burn. he's atleast a PS candidate.
 
Obviously if a players general physical conditioning is poor it increases his exposure to injury, and therefor the Texans have got to be very disappointed in Montgomery and may be less inclined to take another guy with his kind of issues, or atleast not invest a third round pick in such a prospect.
 
Based on the fact that most teams had taken Montgomery off their draft boards there is a very good chance he would pass through waivers and could then be signed to the practice squad. That would give him a year to see if he can get his priorities straight.
 
Texian said:
Based on the fact that most teams had taken Montgomery off their draft boards there is a very good chance he would pass through waivers and could then be signed to the practice squad. That would give him a year to see if he can get his priorities straight.
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Got some support for that most teams assertion?
 
infantrycak said:
Got some support for that most teams assertion?
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Basically going off what Mayock said after Montgomery was drafted. I understand some don't consider Mayock as gospel but he does have more contacts than most and many teams and scouts are calling him for information. And Mayock would not have said it if it wasn't true. You just don't make up stuff like that and say it on TV. That's my support.
 
Montgomery is known to march to his own drums, the way Foster did.

It's the Texans gain if Sam can get healthy soon.
IMO, he's second round talent.

Similarly, I thought of Foster as second round talent.
He was better than Montario Hardesty when they played together (but didn't have the number to show.)
 
infantrycak said:
Got some support for that most teams assertion?
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A little more support:

4-26-2013
Lance Zierlein ‏@LanceZierlein 1h

Source told me "there is no way that the Texans have all the info on Sam Montgomery.... even WE took him off the board." Yikes.
 
Texian said:
A little more support:

4-26-2013
Lance Zierlein ‏@LanceZierlein 1h

Source told me "there is no way that the Texans have all the info on Sam Montgomery.... even WE took him off the board." Yikes.
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Personally, I thought it was Zierlein who didn't have all the info there.

According to what was out and around at the time, LZ seemed to be basing his assessment on 2 things.

1 -- A picture of a note the LSU S&C coach had put in his window chastising some players who had skipped a workout. ONE workout.

2 -- An interview where Montgomery said that when he was at LSU, he didn't respect the weaker teams and didn't prepare as hard to play them. He also said in that interview that you can't do that in the NFL.

When you look at the tape of Montgomery, he wasn't a guy who slacked off on the field. He did appear to have a slow get-off but that was because of what he was being asked to do in most cases. When he wasn't reading the tackle and could key on the ball, he was fine.

LZ and some other people blew those two things (along with the lack of get-off) into a big thing about him not being a hardworker and not being motivated. But that's not how I read those things at all.

He's got to get on the field, though. His being out of shape coming into the OTAs and Camp is kinda damning, though. JJ, Cush, and the Ninja should get him turned around.
 
infantrycak said:
And you honestly think that is anything? That looks like LZ slapping himself in the face.
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I'm not sure there is anything I could post that would satisfy your request for support. Personally I don't know why Mayock and Zierlein would lie or make up something like that. Say one did, but both??? Of course I am not in denial.
 
Last edited:
“The ankle feels pretty good,” Montgomery said. “I’m doing drops, doing cuts, doing sprints, getting out of stances and everything I can normally. It’s a little sore at times but still I push through it and get better every day.”
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“Honestly, I feel like I’m right there with the team,” Montgomery said. “You know, I come out there every day with my notepad, my book and I take a lot of mental reps, write down everything, do what I’m supposed to do and I take advantage of every last opportunity I’m given.”
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“It was just a whole thing of being a pro, learning how to get out there and how to get yourself better without even being in the plays,” he said. “Ed Reed does such a great job of it; a lot of older guys helped me out. It’s helping make me into a pro.”
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“Well, you know, in life there is a lot of adversity,” Montgomery said. “Every man or woman has to conquer adversity in life. I believe that’s one of the things that helps you grow into a man or a woman. I just believe that I’m writing my history right here of what kind of guy I am and what kind of player I’m going to be.”
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http://www.csnhouston.com/football-houston-texans/talk/montgomery-returns-says-he’s-better-player

Still waiting for the 1st Chapter, Sonic.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Personally, I thought it was Zierlein who didn't have all the info there.
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It appears that Lance was simply reporting what his source was telling him. Nothing less, nothing more. I don't know if the source gave Lance all the information about SM and the reasons why they took him off their draft board. If the source did Lance probably used good sense and didn't splatter it all over twitter. You can always contact Lance and ask him.
 
Texian said:
I'm not sure there is anything I could post that would satisfy your request for support. Personally I don't know why Mayock and Zierlein would lie or make up something like that. Say one did, but both??? Of course I am not in denial.
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Look, I don't care if this kid ever plays a down for the Texans. I just don't think Mayock or LZ know the draft boards of multiple teams especially below the 2nd round. I'm sorry but they simply don't know about these down the chart players and if they pretend to they are pumping themselves up.
 
infantrycak said:
Look, I don't care if this kid ever plays a down for the Texans. I just don't think Mayock or LZ know the draft boards of multiple teams especially below the 2nd round. I'm sorry but they simply don't know about these down the chart players and if they pretend to they are pumping themselves up.
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Look you were the one who asked for me to corroborate my post, I provided more than one and you choose not to believe either. This much I do know, Mayock & Zielein have better contacts and inside information than anyone on this board, including you, so pardon me if I choose to believe Mayock & Zierlein. They may not know every teams complete draft board but they do know plenty of people who do and confide in them. And like I said before why would they lie? and I am not the one suffering from denial here. There is an old saying, don't ask the question if you don't want to know the answer.
 
infantrycak said:
Look, I don't care if this kid ever plays a down for the Texans. I just don't think Mayock or LZ know the draft boards of multiple teams especially below the 2nd round. I'm sorry but they simply don't know about these down the chart players and if they pretend to they are pumping themselves up.
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Nothing against Mayock & Zeirline, but I think you're right. They may have pretty good knowledge about the game & the players, & maybe some insight about what teams are looking for.

But I don't think their grades are the Gospel a lot of people think they are. It's impossible to make one list that matches all 32 teams with any usable accuracy.
 
Texian said:
Look you were the one who asked for me to corroborate my post, I provided more than one and you choose not to believe either. This much I do know, Mayock & Zielein have better contacts and inside information than anyone on this board, including you, so pardon me if I choose to believe Mayock & Zierlein. They may not know every teams complete draft board but they do know plenty of people who do and confide in them. And like I said before why would they lie? and I am not the one suffering from denial here. There is an old saying, don't ask the question if you don't want to know the answer.
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I've seen several players with work ethic issues. I've seen several players with serious developmental needs. But I've never seen a player completely off every teams draft board for something as silly as what we've seen.

Unless there's a mountain of evidence that Mayock & Zierline are witholding, it just doesn't make sense.

Why would they lie? Because they heard one or two teams had taken him off their board, maybe a dozen... either way, it's a big story, so they ran it.

Not really a lie per se, just over emphasis on a particular thing.
 
thunderkyss said:
Nothing against Mayock & Zeirline, but I think you're right. They may have pretty good knowledge about the game & the players, & maybe some insight about what teams are looking for.

But I don't think their grades are the Gospel a lot of people think they are. It's impossible to make one list that matches all 32 teams with any usable accuracy.
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I think you're missing the point here, in both instances with Mayock and Zierlein, it was not a compiled list or anything that they had individually done. Both Mayock and Zierlein said their contacts (source) told them that their teams had taken Montgomery off their draft boards. In the case of Mayock his comment was most and with Zierlein it was one. I still don't know why they would lie about something like this. ????
 
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