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All Encompassing Matt Schaub Thread

HoustonFrog said:
They just don't have a running game.
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THis year they did. Ridley had a great season getting over 10 TD's and almost 1,300 yards, and over all the Pats had the most rushing TD's of any team in the league. Of course a ton the reason for that is because the passing would get them down the field to score, but they improved a lot in the rushing department this season.
 
Texecutioner said:
THis year they did. Ridley had a great season getting over 10 TD's and almost 1,300 yards, and over all the Pats had the most rushing TD's of any team in the league. Of course a ton the reason for that is because the passing would get them down the field to score, but they improved a lot in the rushing department this season.
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Yes they did but they still use the throw to set up the run vs run to set up pass. They are comfortable doing that and they are comfortable using 3-4 RBs in different schemes. Brady throwing 40-50 times isn't an obscene amount for them. I just don't think it is stat padding when your offense is spreading the ball, hurry up, shot-gun and your willing to throw short to keep the clock moving.
 
HoustonFrog said:
Yes they did but they still use the throw to set up the run vs run to set up pass. They are comfortable doing that and they are comfortable using 3-4 RBs in different schemes. Brady throwing 40-50 times isn't an obscene amount for them. I just don't think it is stat padding when your offense is spreading the ball, hurry up, shot-gun and your willing to throw short to keep the clock moving.
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Well I definitely agree when you put it this way Frog. I never thought they were stat padding. I think that people feel that way because BB leaves a lot of his starters in there when they have 40+ points on the board. He does do that and to a fault as well. That's exactly how Gronk got hurt for all these games recently, and Edelman too if I'm not mistaken.
 
Moving the ball early, when it matters, and on 3rd downs is the demise of Matt Schaub


A friend took the following stats from the Patriots beatdown of the Texans.

1) In the first 4 Texans' possessions of the game, Schaub went 2 for 9 on 2nd and 3rd down passes
2) The 2 passes he completed were on 3rd down for short gains that did NOT result in first downs
3) All his incompletions came between the 40 yard lines (middle of the field). Basically, this is the area that you need to cross to be in scoring position.
 
We have been in existence since 2002 and we have never had a bona fide legitimate franchise level quarterback on our roster.

It is the most important position in all of football and ever since we failed with David Carr, we have been relegated to scouring the nfl back up scene and late round to undrafted drat picks.

Im sick and tired of stop gap measures.
Im sick and tired of glorified pro bowl legend/game managers.

Im sick and tired of the sage rosenfels, dan orlovskys, matt schaubs, tj yates, jake delhommes and case keenums.

Why cant we start planning to get a franchise level qb while Matt Schaub plays out his contract?

Can we also please stop listening to Kubiak when it comes to QBs because its quite obvious he doesnt know what constitutes a great QB base on his history of QB selections.

The NFL is changing. You can now play and win with a rookie quarterback. Not only is the nfl changing, but the qb position is changing. Mobile athletic QBs like RG3,Cam, R Wison are the next step in the evolution of the quarterback position. Even guys like andrew luck who are pocket passers have some semblance of athleticism and speed. Sure there will be pocket passers, but if you are gonna be a pocket passer you better be damn good at it.

We are at a severe disadvantage with Schaub. A pocket passer who is not even that good at being a pocket passer who is devoid of athleticism.

You can win battles with him, but you will never win the war.
 
Jules Winnfield said:
why was my thread moved?

that deserved its own thread. it was about the texans and franchise qbs.
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No it doesn't. You are really just complaining about Schaub and then asking for crystal ball conjecture. The only known is Schaub will be here next year and most likely the next two. We don't need 8 million QB threads.
 
infantrycak said:
No it doesn't. You are really just complaining about Schaub and then asking for crystal ball conjecture. The only known is Schaub will be here next year and most likely the next two. We don't need 8 million QB threads.
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it wasnt just about schaub. it was about franchise level qbs and our direction and history as team with franchise qbs.

that thread could have fostered plenty of talk not involving matt schaub which would have included our history of qbs, what moves we could make at qb, other teams franchise qb history etc.

most threads are conjecture and just repeats of other already covered subjects. nothing wrong with that.

my thread was not just about schaub but franchise level qbs and the texans history. it deserved its own thread.
 
dream_team said:
Everyone knows Brady's stats are padded. It's not on him, but it's his coach. Even though they could be up 3 TDs in the 4th quarter, Brady will still be passing like they're behind (when most teams in this situation would run the ball to kill the clock). That's why I say his stats are padded. Look at this past game. At the 11:35 mark in the 4th quarter, the Pats are up 18 (3 possessions). Any normal coach would start killing the clock, but instead, Brady does 4 passes in a row. I get it, they are going for the kill and being ultra-aggressive. But this is what I mean by padding stats, throwing the ball when most teams are running it.

Schaub (and Kubiak) on the other hand is the total opposite. They throw only when they have to. In fact, most fans will tell you they don't throw it enough. That, I don't call padding stats.
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Give respect when respect is due. You're embarrassing yourself with this assessment. Brady is elite and already a Hall of Famer.

I wish Kubes and Shaub had just an ounce of Belichick and Brady in them.
 
Texcore said:
Give respect when respect is due. You're embarrassing yourself with this assessment. Brady is elite and already a Hall of Famer.

I wish Kubes and Shaub had just an ounce of Belichick and Brady in them.
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Also, they are aggressive even with a big lead because they have Brady at QB. He won't throw a bunch of picks and embarrass you. While Schaub doesn't do that, he has the potential too and Kubiak is worried about that, if he were to be super-aggressive with a lead. I would be too. Of course, there's also the throwing-the-ball-out-of-bounds 3 times and punt scenario.
 
Jules Winnfield said:
We have been in existence since 2002 and we have never had a bona fide legitimate franchise level quarterback on our roster.

It is the most important position in all of football and ever since we failed with David Carr, we have been relegated to scouring the nfl back up scene and late round to undrafted drat picks.

Im sick and tired of stop gap measures.
Im sick and tired of glorified pro bowl legend/game managers.

Im sick and tired of the sage rosenfels, dan orlovskys, matt schaubs, tj yates, jake delhommes and case keenums.

Why cant we start planning to get a franchise level qb while Matt Schaub plays out his contract?

Can we also please stop listening to Kubiak when it comes to QBs because its quite obvious he doesnt know what constitutes a great QB base on his history of QB selections.

The NFL is changing. You can now play and win with a rookie quarterback. Not only is the nfl changing, but the qb position is changing. Mobile athletic QBs like RG3,Cam, R Wison are the next step in the evolution of the quarterback position. Even guys like andrew luck who are pocket passers have some semblance of athleticism and speed. Sure there will be pocket passers, but if you are gonna be a pocket passer you better be damn good at it.

We are at a severe disadvantage with Schaub. A pocket passer who is not even that good at being a pocket passer who is devoid of athleticism.

You can win battles with him, but you will never win the war.
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A lot of questions, a simple answer: easier said than done. Show me the savior of the franchise who is attainable and who is going to lead us to the Superbowl next year and I'll jump right on the bandwagon with you.

RG3, Cam, and R Wilson, and Luck are all out of the playoffs, just like us. The QBs still in the playoffs? Other than Kaepernick, pocket QBs. Don't get me wrong, some mobility would be nice. Being able to extend the play would be nice. But with the emergence of the flashy, ultra-athletic running QBs, fans are starting to lose sight of what's been PROVEN to win championships.
 
Texcore said:
Give respect when respect is due. You're embarrassing yourself with this assessment. Brady is elite and already a Hall of Famer.

I wish Kubes and Shaub had just an ounce of Belichick and Brady in them.
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The argument is over whose passing stats are more "padded". Schaub or Brady. I claim Brady. Nowhere do I disrespect Brady or say he isn't as good as perceived. I think he's the 2nd best QB in the league.
 
buddyboy said:
A lot of questions, a simple answer: easier said than done. Show me the savior of the franchise who is attainable and who is going to lead us to the Superbowl next year and I'll jump right on the bandwagon with you.

RG3, Cam, and R Wilson, and Luck are all out of the playoffs, just like us. The QBs still in the playoffs? Other than Kaepernick, pocket QBs. Don't get me wrong, some mobility would be nice. Being able to extend the play would be nice. But with the emergence of the flashy, ultra-athletic running QBs, fans are starting to lose sight of what's been PROVEN to win championships.
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Also, I know there's a big love affair with Kaepernick around here now. But lets not forget, he was put into a really really good situation. Three first round picks on that offensive line. A first round pick receiver and tight end. A pro-bowl running back. One of the greatest receivers of all time (even though past his prime). Not to mention, IMO, the best defense in football.

If we invested this much into our offense, and our defense was as good as the 9ers, I don't think we're complaining about our QB and analyzing the Ravens right now.
 
I wonder if the end zone interception in NE on 12-10 was Matt's "Brad Lidge" moment.



Posted using Tapatalk from my phone. May contain errors.
 
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They mentioned something on the radio that I thought was interesting. That being, this was the first time Matt, dre, od and Arian had played this many games together in one season.

None of them got hurt and had to miss serious time.

What's the likelihood of that happening again?

I don't know.

But let's say we go out and add a top flight rookie receiving target. Keys say they pan out.

OD goes down. Or dre goes down. Or Arian goes down.

Are we again saying that Matt didn't have enough weapons at his disposal?

This year you had all of your big guns healthy...all year for the most part. That's kind of rare for teams.
 
dream_team said:
Also, I know there's a big love affair with Kaepernick around here now. But lets not forget, he was put into a really really good situation. Three first round picks on that offensive line. A first round pick receiver and tight end. A pro-bowl running back. One of the greatest receivers of all time (even though past his prime). Not to mention, IMO, the best defense in football.

If we invested this much into our offense, and our defense was as good as the 9ers, I don't think we're complaining about our QB and analyzing the Ravens right now.
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Does it matter if chris Meyers wasn't a first round pick if he's a pro bowler?

Does it matter that od wasn't a first round pick if he's one of the better te's in the league?

Arian has been better than gore. Andre is one of the best of all time and he still actually has some juice left...

And that best defense in football gave up a bunch of points last time they played NE. They gave up a bunch of points to gb too.

In the last 5 weeks the least amount of points they've given up was 27. They've given up 40+ twice in that time span.

Now this is the defense you call the best. Assuming we can even match the "best", we'd still need an explosive offense led by a qb that could rack up points.
 
Rey said:
But let's say we go out and add a top flight rookie receiving target. Keys say they pan out.

OD goes down. Or dre goes down. Or Arian goes down.

Are we again saying that Matt didn't have enough weapons at his disposal?

This year you had all of your big guns healthy...all year for the most part. That's kind of rare for teams.
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I'm not saying Matt didn't have enough weapons, I'm saying we didn't get them all on the field often enough. Same thing with that hurry up offense thing we did... at the end of the half, we put several receiving options on the field, we went with an uptempo pace. Matt was successful.

At the end of the game, we didn't put as many receivers on the field... even though Posey did get on the field. & we huddled up afer every play (not a traditional huddle, but the time savings were nil).. we successfully got down the field & scored, but for what we needed to do, not really what I'd call success.

Matt doesn't have a strong arm, he's not going to extend plays. For him to be successful, you have to spread the field, that means getting as many receiving options into the pattern as possible.

IMO, we need to learn how to run out of 3 WR sets, with KDub's blocking prowess, that shouldn't be too much of a stretch. If the OL can improve their blocking scheme, where they don't need so much help, that should help Matt. Run a hurried tempo from time to time with regularity, that should help Matt.

The sets we're running out of aren't conducive to Matt's strentghs.
 
man, how could anyone say "yes" to DC over Schaub. Schaub isn't great, but he's not David Carr awful.
 
Fiddler said:
I'm not saying Matt didn't have enough weapons, I'm saying we didn't get them all on the field often enough. Same thing with that hurry up offense thing we did... at the end of the half, we put several receiving options on the field, we went with an uptempo pace. Matt was successful.

At the end of the game, we didn't put as many receivers on the field... even though Posey did get on the field. & we huddled up afer every play (not a traditional huddle, but the time savings were nil).. we successfully got down the field & scored, but for what we needed to do, not really what I'd call success.

Matt doesn't have a strong arm, he's not going to extend plays. For him to be successful, you have to spread the field, that means getting as many receiving options into the pattern as possible.

IMO, we need to learn how to run out of 3 WR sets, with KDub's blocking prowess, that shouldn't be too much of a stretch. If the OL can improve their blocking scheme, where they don't need so much help, that should help Matt. Run a hurried tempo from time to time with regularity, that should help Matt.

The sets we're running out of aren't conducive to Matt's strentghs.
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I remember some of Jacoby's drops deep.
Jean was slow on a few balls this year as well.

I was hoping that Posey can be the guy that stretches the field next year, but now we may need to find another one.

(Note, the report out of the combine was that Posey was timed between 4.37 to 4.5 something like that.)
 
Vinny said:
man, how could anyone say "yes" to DC over Schaub. Schaub isn't great, but he's not David Carr awful.
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Sure am glad you pos repped me the other day. Your gazillion point subtraction would sure hurt my rep prowess.
:fostering:
 
AJ-80 said:
Its hard to be successful when he had one of the worst offensive lines in recent history
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267 career sacks to Schaub's 151

2002 - 76
2003 - 15
2004 - 49
2005 - 68
2006 - 41

Who knows how good the kid could've been.
I was NEVER a Carr fan...let alone a :homer:, so nobody need even go there with me. But I must confess, I would love to have seen a less-demoralized Carr, taking snaps behind a good offensive line.
 
AJ-80 said:
Self-sacking? Hah!! Shaub crumbles like a cookie when he feels pressure!
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Schaub's sack totals are low Einstein. He gets the ball out instead of eating it all the time. I didn't think there were any more Carr fanboys left. Good for you.
 
Texcore said:
Give respect when respect is due. You're embarrassing yourself with this assessment. Brady is elite and already a Hall of Famer.

I wish Kubes and Shaub had just an ounce of Belichick and Brady in them.
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If you ever watch nature shows, you see lions will go for the throat of their prey. They will continue to hold that death grip long after the prey has moved to ensure that it's dead.

That is Brady. He's not going to let up on his grip and give you even the slightest chance. He's going to go for your jugular vein and keep his death grip on you until you have gasped your last breath of air.

I agree with you that I wish Kubiak and Schaub had some of that attitude in them. Belichick/Brady are lions. Kubiak/Schaub are turtles.

But that's okay, because this kid likes turtles.

255875907_polls_i_like_turtles_4958_207342_answer_3_xlarge_xlarge.jpeg


AJ-80 said:
Self-sacking? Hah!! Shaub crumbles like a cookie when he feels pressure!
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At least he can feel pressure. Carr often heard footsteps in his head and dove for the closest foxhole.
 
AJ-80 said:
Its hard to be successful when he had one of the worst offensive lines in recent history
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Luv_ya_blue said:
267 career sacks to Schaub's 151

2002 - 76
2003 - 15
2004 - 49
2005 - 68
2006 - 41
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Don't know where you got your stats but Carr was sacked 53 times in 2006. So athletic Carr was sacked 3.3 times per game in 2006. Then sloth like Schaub was sacked 1.5 times per game in 2007 behind essentially the same OL. So...

AJ-80 said:
Self-sacking? Hah!! Shaub crumbles like a cookie when he feels pressure!
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... yes self-sacking. He ran out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage like a moron. He had no pocket feel whatsoever. All the athleticism in the world didn't help out his bad judgment.

This Schaub crumbling mythology is getting out of control. Did he crumble on either of those back to back fined hits in the Denver game?
 
Vinny said:
Schaub's sack totals are low Einstein. He gets the ball out instead of eating it all the time. I didn't think there were any more Carr fanboys left. Good for you.
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I'm not a David Carr fanboy by any means...but to ignore the fact that Shaub literally falls to the ground when he gets touched from behind? We have all seen Shaub do this. He has no ability whatsoever to evade any pass rush. Listen, I think Shaub is a good passer but you have to admit that Shaub can't escape pressure. At least not recently. I'm not discounting the fact that he can stand in the pocket and make a throw when he knows he is about to get pummeled. When he feels any pressure from his backside he crumbles.
 
Rey said:
They mentioned something on the radio that I thought was interesting. That being, this was the first time Matt, dre, od and Arian had played this many games together in one season.
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After our first field goal, they flashed a note across the screen saying those were the first points we ever scored in the first half @ New England.
 
AJ-80 said:
I'm not a David Carr fanboy by any means...but to ignore the fact that Shaub literally falls to the ground when he gets touched from behind? We have all seen Shaub do this. He has no ability whatsoever to evade any pass rush. Listen, I think Shaub is a good passer but you have to admit that Shaub can't escape pressure. At least not recently. I'm not discounting the fact that he can stand in the pocket and make a throw when he knows he is about to get pummeled. When he feels any pressure from his backside he crumbles.
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Schaub is s little below average at escaping pressure. That said, he did a good job of evading tacklers in the pocket against NE.

Didn't do much once he got out of the pocket, be he got there.
 
HJam72 said:
Yes, Carr put a lot of effort into repeatedly scrambling right into Freeney.
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LOL! It wasn't just Freeney. Anyone edge rusher rushing up the field were almost guaranteed a sack because Carr loved to try and run out & around the pocket as opposed to stepping up into it. Never failed. If the edge rusher didn't get him then whomever was chasing him just had to push him out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage for a "sack" because he refused to throw the ball away. Carr is one QB who Schaub will always rank higher then in my book.
 
Just spoke to someone who works with the team that said Schaub had no secret injuries at the end of the season. Maybe it was psychological? What I found interesting is that Schaub had a shoulder problem last season before he had the lisfranc injury so if the lisfranc never, we would have been screwed come playoff time with schaubs shoulder problem.
 
skenney_11 said:
Just spoke to someone who works with the team that said Schaub had no secret injuries at the end of the season. Maybe it was psychological? What I found interesting is that Schaub had a shoulder problem last season before he had the lisfranc injury so if the lisfranc never, we would have been screwed come playoff time with schaubs shoulder problem.
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That's the biggest misconception about Schaub this year. Has he fully recover? His foot must be in digression. Why he can't evade from that rusher?

Do anybody ever see this guy limp or hobble around the field this year? There's your answer. Nothings wrong with MS physically. The QB position is the most mentally challenging position in football. Schaub mental state is on a decline. That is the most troubling issue of all.
 
klockWork said:
Do anybody ever see this guy limp or hobble around the field this year? There's your answer. Nothings wrong with MS physically. The QB position is the most mentally challenging position in football. Schaub mental state is on a decline. That is the most troubling issue of all.
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I work with a bunch of Cowboy fans. Most of them are not Romo fans. I tell them that I like Romo. I like his gutzpa. I like that he gives his team a chance to win against anybody.

But he'll always fall short.

I tell them when he's got a running game & a defense, the Dallas Cowboys are unstoppable. Truth is, the same could be said about any team. Take the Patriots for example. Had their run game & defense played the way they played against us, the Pats would be in the Super Bowl. The Pats would have won last year's Super Bowl.

If Romo had a bad game, I can guarantee you his receivers dropped a few balls. His running game didn't show up, & his defense let him down.

Same with any team. Look at the Falcons & their last lost. Where was their defense & their running game in the second half?

If you can block out that we lost against the Pats two weeks ago & watch that game, Schaub played as well as he had all year, it was without a doubt his best game over the last 6 weeks. He stayed alive in the pocket by sidestepping, he did make some "decent" throws from outside the pocket, he planted that left foot as well as he ever had.

I believe Matt Schaub is a problem. I'm not saying any different, but that game, he was far, far from our biggest problem.
 
Fiddler said:
I believe Matt Schaub is a problem. I'm not saying any different, but that game, he was far, far from our biggest problem.
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I like Romo as well because he's willing to stick his neck out to give his team a chance to win at the cost of making himself look like a jackass. But Schaub had plenty of opportunity to make momentum changing throws. He's just to cautious with his pass.

Look at the throws Flacco made to Boldin against NE. Those were text book coverage by the cb. But because Flacco understand ball placement and confidence in his receiver those throws resulted in TDs. It also takes gutz to make that decision to throw it like that also.

That 2-pt conversion late in the game to AJ was that kind of throw. That game against the Redskins 2 years ago to AJ in the EZ was that kind of throw.

If Schaub ever recognize how effective those kind of throws can be against tight coverages he would be borderline elite at the very least.
 
ckhouston said:
Schaub simply doesn't have the arm to make the types of throws needed to win in this system. He gets no zip on the ball. The ball lingers and gets knocked down or intercepted or the receiver runs past the place Matt threw it and it ends up behind them. MS plain and simple has a weak arm. Look at how fast the ball gets to the receiver when Flacco, or even CK in SF, or the Wilson kid in Seattle chunk it out there. We need a strong arm QB for this offense. Gary keeps protecting Matt but he just doesn't fit the system. He is immobile with a noodle arm ... two things this system cant tolerate.
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As long as MS don't throw it off his back foot those kind of throws can certainly get there, maybe not as much zip like a Rogers but it can definitely get there on time.

But it's a moot argument because Schaub at his age shouldn't develop those kind of bad habit this far down in his career. Either its already fixed or it's too badly broken to be fix.

Unfortunately we all know it's beyond repair.
 
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