The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK & REPLACEMENT thread

[Hervoyel]

I'm not defending Kubiak here, but going from "coach of the year" to "off with his head" is pretty schitzo.

Not really. Not if you never thought he deserved the award to begin with.

Coach of the year was Wade Phillips. Gary was luckiest coach of the year.

But no, I'm not calling for his firing. Mostly because I know it's not going to happen any time in the next decade. Gary Kubiak's won a playoff game. Gary's gonna be here as long as he wants.

 

[Wolf]

Who do you y'all want to hire?

 

[Mailman]

You know, it's interesting that you mention Matt's bad game because I thought before the game started when they showed him in pre-game warmups he had the weirdest look on his face. He looked like he was already whipped. I'm serious, I want to go back and dig up some screenshots of that because it caught my attention right away. It was some of the most negative, hang-dog looking it expression and body language I can remember ever seeing out of him. He looked like that all night from the opening drive. It's like he was pissed off about something and not something he could channel into his game.

I wonder what was up with that?

Absolutely nothing. Sounds like a buncha gibber gabber hokum to me. He just got his ass handed to him by Dom Capers.

 

[fiasco west]

Actually, the great thing about bumping this three year old thread is that it isn't overreacting. It's a thought process that's been marinating for three years (more for some). It's not like the team got blown out tonight and people started thinking Kubiak is awful despite a 5-1 record. It's that we've thought he's awful for a very long time and the same old, same old problems resurfaced tonight. That's all.

The Texans are 5-1 right now.

Yeah he's not had the best of history but guess what? Coaches can improve and Kubiak has at least shown that.

If the Texans don't respond to this embarrassment and go out and let this happen again then it would have been a better time to bring this up.

 

[Mailman]

T

Actually, the great thing about bumping this three year old thread is that it isn't overreacting. It's a thought process that's been marinating for three years (more for some). It's not like the team got blown out tonight and people started thinking Kubiak is awful despite a 5-1 record. It's that we've thought he's awful for a very long time and the same old, same old problems resurfaced tonight. That's all.

No, you've just been waiting for some evidence to confirm your predisposed position all along, all these recent successes be damned. Your position is completely untenable and not worth arguing against. Kubiak could win a Super Bowl, then misuse a timeout in the next year's playoffs and you'd bump this thread.

Ridiculous.

 

[Textan]

Unfortunately, I believe you're right.
I don't see him going anywhere in the next five years at least, unless the Texans implode this year and next.
Something I really don't want to happen.
Cowher, was the way to go, but oh well.

 

[eriadoc]

If the Texans don't respond to this embarrassment and go out and let this happen again then it would have been a better time to bring this up.

It's not really an issue of "bringing it up" as much as a continual reminder that he wasn't, isn't, and never will be a good head coach. So there's nothing to bring up. It's just an ongoing fact.

Who do you y'all want to hire?

No one right now. The team is 5-1. They're going to the playoffs, barring some horrific meltdown. When I say "Fire Kubiak", I say it in the same way that I say we need to replace Bradie James. It's not happening tomorrow. There's no one to replace him with anyway. But if you're serious about wanting this to be the best team it can be, then you ought to recognize that they guy at the top is limiting that potential.

 

[fiasco west]

I wonder if the 9ers fans are calling for Harbaugh to be fired.

They were smacked around today as well.

 

[eriadoc]

I wonder if the 9ers fans are calling for Harbaugh to be fired.

They were smacked around today as well.

Does Harbaugh have a 6+ year record of mediocrity? If so, they probably were.

 

[TheGM]

Dom Capers. Redemption time.

 

[Wolf]

Then what purpose to stoke the fire (no pun intended) in week 6 ofthe season? Why not wait till later in the season



On a side note
No worries though coaches are made to be fired. Happens all the time. Good thing about threads like this. Eventually Kubiak will get fired and people will be happy

 

[fiasco west]

Does Harbaugh have a 6+ year record of mediocrity? If so, they probably were.

The history does not really matter if he is improving and getting better.

The recent success should be all that matters right now.

Not all coaches get the job right away, there is a learning curve there too. Right now Kubiak's team is one of the best in the NFL. That counts for something. One loss no matter how bad it was is still one loss.

 

[eriadoc]

Then what purpose to stoke the fire (no pun intended) in week 6 ofthe season? Why not wait till later in the season

The same reason you talk about problems with the team after every game. The run game is struggling, the OL has issues, the ILBs are weak, ST are crappy, and the head coach is not good. Just one more talking point, except of all those, it's the one talking point that hasn't been addressed at some point.

On a side note
No worries though coaches are made to be fired. Happens all the time. Good thing about threads like this. Eventually Kubiak will get fired and people will be happy

Not going to be happy because he's fired. I wanted the Kubiak thing to work. If the team gets to the Super Bowl, he'll be lauded like Bum in this town. I like Kubiak. But I want this team to be the best it can be and discussing the strengths AND weaknesses of the team is what fans do. Head coach is one of the weaknesses of the team.

I know everyone wants to frame this in a light like it's a reaction to this game. In the sense that Kubiak did some things at the end of the first half that raised my ire, it is. But more than that, it's that those issues are not new. They have always been there.

 

[eriadoc]

The history does not really matter if he is improving and getting better.

The clock management issues and turtling before the half are issues that have always been there with Kubiak. He has not improved or gotten better. In fact, most of the problems he has exhibited as head coach have not gotten ebtter or changed appreciably. One of the main things people harped on was how he steadfastly held on to Richard Smith and then Frank Bush, despite the fact that any sentient being could tell those guys needed to be fired. Now everyone seems to think Joe Marciano needs to be fired. That's not new. ST didn't all of a sudden get bad.

He's not improving. He's just gotten better players, slowly, after several drafts. Frankly, it's taken him a lot longer to get here than it should have. He's just not a good coach. It's been 102 games. He is what he is.

 

[Wolf]

ST have been slipping for a couple of years

 

[eriadoc]

ST have been slipping for a couple of years

As I said in another thread, long enough that the head guy should have made a change by now.

 

[fiasco west]

The clock management issues and turtling before the half are issues that have always been there with Kubiak. He has not improved or gotten better. In fact, most of the problems he has exhibited as head coach have not gotten ebtter or changed appreciably. One of the main things people harped on was how he steadfastly held on to Richard Smith and then Frank Bush, despite the fact that any sentient being could tell those guys needed to be fired. Now everyone seems to think Joe Marciano needs to be fired. That's not new. ST didn't all of a sudden get bad.

He's not improving. He's just gotten better players, slowly, after several drafts. Frankly, it's taken him a lot longer to get here than it should have. He's just not a good coach. It's been 102 games. He is what he is.

They are 5-1. You think people don't have gripes about the best of coaches? They do. I've heard Giants fans complain about Coughlin, no coach is perfect. Yeah Kubes is conservative...but you know what? That has won us a lot of games.

Who cares about how he hung onto those guys now that we bought in a actual DC? Now say Wade gets another HC job and we go back to giving a unproven DC the job then yeah.

So he's gotten better players and his team looks better? Well that's usually how things work. A great coach isn't going to make the previous trashy teams we had any better. Also the fact that he has gotten better players is part of his job. (Just part of it)

 

[sandmanx]

Amazing after a 5-0 start the Kubes party is over immediately after a loss to me. What I really want in a coach with the balls to lay a 40+ score beatdown on a team, not a team that is going to lay down on a dead team at home. **** Kubiak

 

[Mailman]

Amazing after a 5-0 start the Kubes party is over immediately after a loss to me. What I really want in a coach with the balls to lay a 40+ score beatdown on a team, not a team that is going to lay down on a dead team at home. **** Kubiak

Wut?

Translation someone?

 

[eriadoc]

They are 5-1.

Irrelevant to the current discussion, because this is an issue that's 102 games in the making, not 6 games.

Yeah Kubes is conservative...but you know what? That has won us a lot of games.

Knowing when to press and when to go conservative is one of those things that good decision making is comprised of.

Who cares about how he hung onto those guys now that we bought in a actual DC? Now say Wade gets another HC job and we go back to giving a unproven DC the job then yeah.

Allow me to spell it out for you - he's exhibiting the same fault in loyalty with Joe Marciano right now that he exhibited with both Smith and Bush. In other words, he's not changing, he's not improving, and your entire premise is flawed.

So he's gotten better players and his team looks better? Well that's usually how things work. A great coach isn't going to make the previous trashy teams we had any better. Also the fact that he has gotten better players is part of his job. (Just part of it)

It is part of his job. Therefore, the multitude of blown draft picks that led to things taking so long also fall at his doorstep. And a great coach may not take a trash team to the Super Bowl, but I think it's fair to say Kubiak's teams have underachieved in the past. Most notably 2009 and 2010. His teams - that he built - with coaches he hired - with a GM that he hired. Noticing the common denominator here?

But hey, the team is 5-1 and we are all happy with that, tonight's loss notwithstanding. But as I said above, fans discuss the strengths AND the weaknesses of a team. Kubiak is a weakness, just like Alan Ball or Antoine Caldwell or Brandon Harris. So it's going to be discussed. It's been a weakness for at least three years, so the wait and see period is over for a lot of us. If you still believe, then good for you.

 

[Hervoyel]

Absolutely nothing. Sounds like a buncha gibber gabber hokum to me. He just got his ass handed to him by Dom Capers.

This was prior to his having his "ass handed to him by Dom Capers".

 

[rolyat93]

Kube's ain't going anywhere haters. 5-1 speaks for itself.

 

[Mailman]

This was prior to his having his "ass handed to him by Dom Capers".

Interpreting body language is a losing proposition. Don't put too much into it.

 

[eriadoc]

I have always been a firm believer in running your stuff, but aggressive defenses have shown us that they can take away our whole game plan. What it boils down to is, that Kubiak is a horrible when it comes to adjustments and clock management. We need a head coach, not a developer of coordinators.

This post was three years, one month, and one day ago. There's your improvement.

 

[Hervoyel]

Interpreting body language is a losing proposition. Don't put too much into it.

Whatever man. Dude looked like he was in a funk before the game ever started and I made note of it. Game began and what do you know, he played like he was in a funk.

All I'm saying.

 

[toronto]

This post was three years, one month, and one day ago. There's your improvement.

Tonight's one game had little to do with adjustments and everything to do with terrible discipline. The offside call on the punt is inexcusable. That's for starters.

No disrespect, but you get a swelled head after starting 5-0 and deservedly so, but in the last week two things happened...

You lost your best defensive player
They're were pissed off like hell and played like the top contending team they are supposed to be.

This is still a 12-4 team that, if they can beat Baltimore, has a potential lock on home field throughout the playoffs. Next weeks game for your team is a much bigger test, and it tlooks like they too, will be missing their heart and soul if Rey Rey is gone...

It happens. I'm sure 49er fans feel the same way tonight too.

 

[fiasco west]

This post was three years, one month, and one day ago. There's your improvement.

What improvement is to be made when you can't run or pass the ball?

Oh and when you give the ball back the other team throws up another TD.

I'm not saying none of this is his fault but the players played like complete garbage today and Wade (The Savior) didn't help Kubiak out too much either.

 

[eriadoc]

Tonight's one game had little to do with adjustments and everything to do with terrible discipline.

I agree. But after 3+ years of seeing the same problems from the head coach, it deserves to be discussed no differently than any of the other ongoing problems.

 

[Mailman]

Whatever man. Dude looked like he was in a funk before the game ever started and I made note of it. Game began and what do you know, he played like he was in a funk.

All I'm saying.

Schaub's body language is always off imo. I think you're reading palms. The entire offense played like crap. Maybe it's Arian's vegan diet?

 

[eriadoc]

What improvement is to be made when you can't run or pass the ball?

Well, for starters you call that timeout immediately and prepare for the punt. You get the special teams coach that you employ to get his players to freakin' block someone and try for a decent return. Then you come up with a couple plays that are a balance of risk vs. reward that may result in something. That means no Hail Marys and no 3rd and long draw plays, in case that needed to be clarified. If they don't result in anything, you gave it an honest attempt. If they do, maybe you get a FG or even a TD.

What you don't do is kneel down on the sideline and pray to God that the half ends right then and there for the whole world to see.

 

[Mailman]

I agree. But after 3+ years of seeing the same problems from the head coach, it deserves to be discussed no differently than any of the other ongoing problems.

And what about the previous five weeks of disciplined, relatively turnover/sack free football? Do we get to discuss those, too?

 

[eriadoc]

And what about the previous five weeks of disciplined, relatively turnover/sack free football? Do we get to discuss those, too?

I forgot what I had you on ignore for, so I took you off to see your contributions to this thread. Glad you're here.

If you want to take a 5 game sample size against the other 97, I'm cool with that. But it's not like I can't go back to games this very year and point out the same tendencies that people have complained about for years. It's just becoming more and more evident that he's not going to change, is all.

He is what he is after 102 games.

 

[Wolf]

Many teams go into the half that way . I personally thought they neded to regroup at that point Esp given the field position and the way the offensive line was blocking

 

[fiasco west]

Well, for starters you call that timeout immediately and prepare for the punt. You get the special teams coach that you employ to get his players to freakin' block someone and try for a decent return. Then you come up with a couple plays that are a balance of risk vs. reward that may result in something. If they don't, you gave it an honest attempt. If they do, maybe you get a FG or even a TD.

What you don't do is kneel down on the sideline and pray to God that the half ends right then and there for the whole world to see.

You are right.

But that one mistake did not cost the team the game.

Green Bay was going to get the ball back any ways and put up 7 (we did not stop them once when we needed to) and then if we gave it a honest try it's likely the ball wasn't going to be moved.

They were just out played today and out coached. It happens though. It's more about how the team responds to something like this though.

This is the first time for Kubiak and this team as a 'powerhouse' team.

Lets see if they are going to play angry next game, hungry, and play much better... Or if they are going to come out in a shell next week and play like a team that's realized they aren't ready yet.

 

[Bulls on Parade]

He's the perfect head coach when we have a lead. Trying to come back from two or three Touchdowns. Well, that's another thing. We used to have a comeback type of offense in 2009 with Kyle Shanahan as offensive coordinator. We need a young and brilliant young mind with energy at OC. His loss was the Redskins gain.

 

[Wolf]

I forgot what I had you on ignore for, so I took you off to see your contributions to this thread. Glad you're here.

If you want to take a 5 game sample size against the other 97, I'm cool with that. But it's not like I can't go back to games this very year and point out the same tendencies that people have complained about for years. It's just becoming more and more evident that he's not going to change, is all.

He is what he is after 102 games.

And Kubiak had the same talent 100 games ago?

Iam not saying he isnt at fault. But different circumstances.

 

[eriadoc]

You are right.

But that one mistake did not cost the team the game.

I said that above. At the risk of repeatedly repeating myself, this thread isn't about one game.

 

[Bulls on Parade]

Lets see if they are going to play angry next game, hungry, and play much better... Or if they are going to come out in a shell next week and play like a team that's realized they aren't ready yet.

Against a 5-1 Ravens team just as banged up as we are? I'd imagine they'll play much better and win. We can limp into the bye week with a 6-1 record and the 1st seed in the AFC. I'll take it at this point.

 

[fiasco west]

And Kubiak had the same talent 100 games ago?

Iam not saying he isnt at fault. But different circumstances.

Exactly.

I don't understand why that has that much to do with our past two seasons.

Kubes has been winning games now. People saying it's the same I disagree, because we lost so many heart wrenching close games...yall remember that?

How many games we lost on one or two plays that eventually kept us out of the playoffs? Those years?

The past two years have been different. Outside of this game the Texans have been rolling, one bad game and it's time to rethink about all the bad that has happened and forget any of the good.

 

[Wolf]

I said that above. At the risk of repeatedly repeating myself, this thread isn't about one game.

Oh but it is or it wouldn't have been brought back up 10 months later at the first incident of a Texans loss. I wonder if it was bookmarked

 

[eriadoc]

He's the perfect head coach when we have a lead.

I don't think I agree with that, even. He's the perfect coach when the team has the lead against an inferior opponent. He's made some decisions that have facilitated good teams coming back against the Texans by turtling and not going for the kill several times. As I said after the Saints game last year, when you face a QB like Brees, Rodgers, Brady, etc., you have to play it differently than you do when you play Gabbert. You can't sit on a lead and run the ball exclusively. This team really can't even run the ball successfully at ALL when the other team knows it's coming, to be honest. If this team needs a first down to close out the game, there's more than likely going to be a punt and a reliance upon the defense to end the game. That's fine when you face the Dolphins. Not fine when you face the Saints, Packers, Pats, etc.

He turtles. He's scared to strive for a big play because he's scared of the potential negative. His risk-reward analysis is almost entirely weighted toward risk. In other words, he's a *****.

 

[eriadoc]

Oh but it is or it wouldn't have been brought back up 10 months later at the first incident of a Texans loss. I wonder if it was bookmarked

Nah, easily found. It's actually one of the longest threads ever on this board, which reflects the fact that it's not a topic that Kubiak has made us forget. Pretty easy to find.

And I have a pretty good record of posting exactly what I mean. This is not about one game.

 

[fiasco west]

Against a 5-1 Ravens team just as banged up as we are? I'd imagine they'll play much better and win. We can limp into the bye week with a 6-1 record and the 1st seed in the AFC. I'll take it at this point.

I think everyone would be happy about 6-1 any ways. I'm not really scared or worried about the Ravens.

 

[ItsMyFault]

I think everyone would be happy about 6-1 any ways. I'm not really scared or worried about the Ravens.

We'll get slaughtered by the Bears and Pats on the road. Idk if it's just the media attention or the stage of MNF/SNF, but we didn't play well last week on MNF either against the Jets.

 

[fiasco west]

We'll get slaughtered by the Bears and Pats on the road playing like we did tonight.

Yep.

We'll lose to anyone playing like we did tonight. Also all the dumb penalties that extended dead drives really killed this team (Of course, stupid kubiak telling Barwin to display his wicked vertical on that FG try!)

 

[GP]

Whatever man. Dude looked like he was in a funk before the game ever started and I made note of it. Game began and what do you know, he played like he was in a funk.

All I'm saying.

He just might have sensed that the team was ripe for getting their asses kicked.

Schaub is a smart guy. Very intuitive. Has his finger on the slow, lethargic pulse of this Kubiak-led team (LOL).

I bet that funk you're referring to was him knowing that his buddies were not ready for this. That failure was about to ensue. It started last Monday night when guys like AJ and Walter dogged a couple of routes on separate plays, IMO. Schaub probably felt like the mojo had been "off" ever since last Monday night, and he felt it was really REALLY off tonight.

Kubiak isn't taking risks lately, he's lulled himself into thinking he can squeak by a team like GB after having slow-motioned it with the previous inferior teams, almost getting caught by the Jets (which was false confidence he didn't need to feel this week, btw). He does this on the field, too, putting up a 3 & out when we're within our own 10 yard line...then the other team scores a TD off a short field and whattya' know??? We come back and look like our old selves in the next possession.

That's why I say that Gary, the HEAD COACH, is the blame here. He has instilled in this team a confidence, but it has a catch to it--The team has believed that the defense can bail out the offense every game, almost at will, and that's given the offense a laziness IMO. They have a bad series? Oh well, Wade's defense will get us the ball back. No problem! Oops.

All in all, this was a country ass-whuppin' that didn't have to happen, but it did. Gary could have come out, ran the ball down their throats, and things might have turned out differently. But what did Gary do? Two straight passes to open the game and two scrambles and throw-aways by Schaub, setting the tone for the evening...

The hilarity ensued from there. This team has to have a head coach who can sense his team's mojo is off, and so the HC must spend the week figuring out ways to get the mojo back and keep them from embarrassing themselves on national TV. Instead, the slow and steady "we just have to do what we know we are capable of" attitude kept everybody from being REALISTS with themselves.

The only way Gary can keep up the same old "we just have to do what we know we are capable of" attitude is precisely because he has a defense who can allow him to do that still, and tonight that ace-in-the-hole card wasn't even in the deck to begin with. It went AWOL tonight. And Gary should have found ways to get a better hand than the one he played.

And hats off to GB for manning up and kicking our ass. They deserved the win. We didn't lose this game, they WON it. Congrats to them. They played well.

 

[GP]

And he doesn't need to be fired.

We're dancing with the one who brung us, and he's the guy daddy McNair chose for us to go to the dance with. So smile real big, and grab his hand and dance with him already. He's your date for the evening. Get over it.

Last thing we need is to have arguments over this, precisely because it's not even gonna' happen. Not in a million years. He's signed on to an extension, he's McNair's guy, and this is just a hiccup that will pass (hopefully).

What we need to pray for is that the offense realizes it has to hit a new level within itself, and do it NOW. Not a few weeks from now. I am hoping Matt Schaub is disgusted with it all and that he finds a way to lead the guys out of the funk that started brewing last Monday night.

There is some cronyism going on, though, that will be hard to overcome:

1. Kubiak's loyalty to his special teams coach...which means Marciano ain't going anywhere, either, and this season will be a Marciano special teams group all year long. I don't even think he'd get canned after this year, tbh.

2. Wade's love for Bradie James and Connor Barwin. For whatever reason, Wade has married himself to those two guys despite them never really impacting the game much at all. I'll throw in Alan Ball, too. Loyalty makes guys blind to reality, and I still cannot see why Barwin--6 games into the year--is being kept out there as much as Wade has him out there.

It's not the end of the world, but it stings to see the winning streak halted like THIS. Lose by a FG, or even one TD? Fine. Get torched on primetime? Not OK.

 

[dream_team]

All in all, this was a country ass-whuppin' that didn't have to happen, but it did. Gary could have come out, ran the ball down their throats, and things might have turned out differently. But what did Gary do? Two straight passes to open the game and two scrambles and throw-aways by Schaub, setting the tone for the evening...

I agree, we SHOULD have been able to run it down their throats. But we weren't able to. Foster ran the ball 17 times for an average of 1.7 ypc. So what makes you think we would have been able to run on them at all?

 

[GP]

I agree, we SHOULD have been able to run it down their throats. But we weren't able to. Foster ran the ball 17 times for an average of 1.7 ypc. So what makes you think we would have been able to run on them at all?

You have to make a solid commitment to run the ball. Period.

The O-Line has to line up in 1st down on the first play of the game, and they have to be of the mindset that their RB (Foster) is going to get 3 or 4 yards on this play no matter what happens.

Then on 2nd down, whatever play is called, they have to perform their roles perfectly and hope the QB and/or RB/WR perform theirs perfectly, as well.

And so the momentum is built.

But tonight? Kubiak tried to cash in YET ANOTHER play action pass on the very first play and the Packers called that bluff. And so the panic set in. On second down? Same thing. Same results.

It's like Kubiak was thrown completely off balance because his script wasn't working. Everybody flinched. EVERYBODY. Posey offsides. Packers score a TD immediately. 3 and out for us. Packers score a TD. Fumbled snap. Stupid penalty on Barwin? First down. Penalty on Manning for punching. Busted coverages on crucial 3rd down...TD Packers. I can't name them all.

He might want to develop a new strategy for the opening possessions vs the Ravens, or we're going to be 5-2 very quickly. This is HIS team, and he sort of mailed this in tonight, IMO.

Wade laid an egg, too, but this whole team is Gary's. He should have seen the signs that were being posted as far back as last Monday night. This team was showing signs of nodding off last Monday night.

 

[dream_team]

You have to make a solid commitment to run the ball. Period.

The O-Line has to line up in 1st down on the first play of the game, and they have to be of the mindset that their RB (Foster) is going to get 3 or 4 yards on this play no matter what happens.

Then on 2nd down, whatever play is called, they have to perform their roles perfectly and hope the QB and/or RB/WR perform theirs perfectly, as well.

And so the momentum is built.

But tonight? Kubiak tried to cash in YET ANOTHER play action pass on the very first play and the Packers called that bluff. And so the panic set in. On second down? Same thing. Same results.

It's like Kubiak was thrown completely off balance because his script wasn't working. Everybody flinched. EVERYBODY. Posey offsides. Packers score a TD immediately. 3 and out for us. Packers score a TD. Fumbled snap. Stupid penalty on Barwin? First down. Penalty on Manning for punching. Busted coverages on crucial 3rd down...TD Packers. I can't name them all.

He might want to develop a new strategy for the opening possessions vs the Ravens, or we're going to be 5-2 very quickly. This is HIS team, and he sort of mailed this in tonight, IMO.

Wade laid an egg, too, but this whole team is Gary's. He should have seen the signs that were being posted as far back as last Monday night. This team was showing signs of nodding off last Monday night.

Sure, I'm with you that I would have like to have seen Kubiak try to establish the run early. But I don't think things would have been different if he did. Texans struggled to run on the Packers, I don't think it would have made a difference if we started off the game running.

This was by far the worst game of the season for the OL. Quite surprising considering all of the injuries on GB's side. They couldn't run block and struggled with pass pro. For supposedly one of the best OLs in the league, they failed to show up today.