I completely agree. Which is why I'd like to get it out now, how much is too much.
I don't want to overpay for Mario or any FA. I have no problem playing our star players, I happen to think Mario is a star player.
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Mario movement rumors (MERGED) Signs with Buffalo $100 million
- Thread starter gafftop
- Start date
I completely agree. Which is why I'd like to get it out now, how much is too much.
I don't want to overpay for Mario or any FA. I have no problem playing our star players, I happen to think Mario is a star player.
Wolf
100% Texan
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I've said a dozen times that I agree there are many variables that contributed to the improvement. You continue to skate from the point which is this:
without Mario (and despite his enormous drain on the cap), the Texans were a great defense over a 14 game period. That's it. There is no evidence that Mario would make a significant difference in the play of the defense. I understand that many of you are in awe of his physical ability. What is the imperical evidence that shows the Texans' defense would be significantly better with him on the field?
badboy
Hall of Fame
Dm, I'd re-state your position thus: which is better? 2011 Texans + Mario or 2011 Texans minus Mario but using his cap of $18-20m to sign FA WR and LG? $9m for each player first year of a deal should be enticing.
Note* I do like Mario & expect him to be a Texan.
Brandon420tx
Flounder
I thought our defense got better because of Wade Phillips. What I'm most worried about is getting a San Diego Chargers situation when Merrimen went off the juice (and got injured/left the team) and they completely lost their pass rush.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Shouldn't either answer result in the same conclusion?: let Mario Walk.
I'm drooling, like Wade Phillips is. If his defense resulted in career numbers for Barwin, Smith, & brought Cushing back to life, I can't wait to see Mario Williams after a full off-season in this system.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Counter-Point: Pretty sure the defense is even better than it was in 2011 if we retain Mario.
Reading your posts I would assume that you presume the former is true and not the latter?
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I waffle back and forth whether Mario's presence would've stunted some of what happened last year. I'm confident his $15 million could be spent much more wisely, though.
Good thing his cap number won't be $15M
It might be $15M for some team, but it will be $0M for the Texans...
wildroot
Veteran
Bottom line is we can't have a high-priced stud at every position, there's not enough cap room for any team to staff up that way. You have to sprinkle your stars around your lower paid players and find that sweet spot. So in a few years we'd have Barwin, Reed wanting to get paid along with Mario (if we sign him), Ryans and Cushing...and Watt and Smith. I don't know that we'll be able to afford all that talent on the D-line and at LB. It was sure nice to have Reed to go to when Mario went down, so without Mario we wouldn't have that luxury any longer unless we pull another rabbit outta the hat in April. Now I know the Cap is supposed to increase substantially next year which may make signing Mario doable if we get a little creative ala large signing bonus and putting off some of the big $$$$s till next year. But lets don't forget if by some miracle we get out guys resigned, we still have a whole draft class to deal with....perhaps it's a good thing we don't pick till 26. And then there's next year.
badboy
Hall of Fame
just curious where you got this info. Most say maximum increase to apprx $124m from $120m & maybe not that much. If we continue to draft well and sign maybe one roster player each off season from the UDFA list we can keep out cap within limits. I think it is possible to have a stud at every position but they do not have to be high priced. Hopefully we will soon be able to let high dolar vets go elsewhere with good compensation to us in return.
I think my goal for Texans is to have teams coming to us with high draft picks wanting our older vets that we have replacements for. Lose a Mario & a Barwin is there. Schaub---Yates, etc.
The 7 picks slide into $5million pool so that should be no issue.
Jackie Chiles
Veteran
You are thinking this upcoming year, he is thinking the year after. At this time of the year "next year" can be a bit fuzzy like that. Anyways, the salary cap for 2013 is expected to take a big jump because the TV rights were renegotiated and will have a huge impact on the salary cap.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/ent...illion-dollar-deals-with-fox-nbc-and-cbs.html
badboy
Hall of Fame
Yeah thanks I first posted the new TV contracts in a thread some time ago.
Blake
MMQB
Any MW updates? We have less than 2 weeks to get a deal done. I am assuming things will heat up next week. I also am assuming that other players contracts will not be restructured unless Mario has accepted an offer.
Peppers: 3/5/2010: Signed a six-year, $84 million contract. The deal contains $42 million guaranteed, including a $6.5 million signing bonus, a first-year roster bonus of $12.5 million, and a second-year "signing" bonus of $10.5 million. Another $7.5 million is available through incentives based on sacks, Pro Bowl berths, and Defensive Player of the Year awards. Peppers can earn annual $100,000 workout bonuses in years one through five. 2012: $8.9 million, 2013: $12.9 million, 2014: $13.9 million, 2015: $16.5 million, 2016: Free Agent
My projected Mario Williams Deal: Six Years. 90 million. 45 million guaranteed.
8 million signing bonus prorated over 6 years.
Peppers: 3/5/2010: Signed a six-year, $84 million contract. The deal contains $42 million guaranteed, including a $6.5 million signing bonus, a first-year roster bonus of $12.5 million, and a second-year "signing" bonus of $10.5 million. Another $7.5 million is available through incentives based on sacks, Pro Bowl berths, and Defensive Player of the Year awards. Peppers can earn annual $100,000 workout bonuses in years one through five. 2012: $8.9 million, 2013: $12.9 million, 2014: $13.9 million, 2015: $16.5 million, 2016: Free Agent
My projected Mario Williams Deal: Six Years. 90 million. 45 million guaranteed.
8 million signing bonus prorated over 6 years.
I don't think the team even knows what the cap number will be yet, so they can't really put a solid offer forward yet. There was a report yesterday that the cap number might be smaller than expected.
Blake
MMQB
It has always gone up. I think its safe to assume the cap will be around 124 million.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
It went down from $128 Million in 2009 to $120 Million in 2011 (with the uncapped year in between).
Blake
MMQB
Exactly. The uncapped year. In a normal offseason like this one it has always gone up.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
It's a new CBA, and it has already resulted in a decrease from the last cap amount. I don't think you can assume anything about the 2012 amount.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Sounds about right, but is that the Texans' offer, or what he will get from another team?
I don't think the Texans can afford that much if they plan on keeping other guys. I would like to see the Texans do something unconventional to compete with those type of deals like offer 6 years, 54 million, fully guaranteed or something like that. 9 million a year is a nice chunk of change.
Blake
MMQB
That there my friend is the 90 million dollar question right there. Personally I think they will find the cap space to get Mario signed even if it means we lose Brown or Barwin next year. I think they feel we are a better team with Mario and Brown than Barwin and Brown. And in the 2012 season we will have all of them.
Blake
MMQB
I dont get your logic. The cap was decreased due to the new CBA being put into place as a starting off point. It will only go up from here. Unless they are putting in a new CBA again this year that I am unaware of.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
That there my friend is the 90 million dollar question right there. Personally I think they will find the cap space to get Mario signed even if it means we lose Brown or Barwin next year. I think they feel we are a better team with Mario and Brown than Barwin and Brown. And in the 2012 season we will have all of them.
eh.....getting by with mario or Barwin...i agree. Duane Brown.........not so much. I think they feel they have a perennial pro bowler in Brown & if the get something done with Foster this year..Brown, not Barwin becomes the priority in 2013.
But i'm selfish, i want to keep all these guys that are coming up in FA this year & next. The only guy i wouldn't feel too broken up about losing is maybe Briesel b/c of his injury history. He's missed a total 21 games in 3 different years due to injury. 11 games in 09 with a foot injury (IR)....basically 7 games in 2010 with a shoulder issue (IR) & 3 in 2011 with a broken twig.
redwhiteblue
Waterboy
Has Rick Smith or anyone in the front office explained why they didn't try to extend Mario's contract before the start of last season?
Blake
MMQB
You mean that time when we were switching defensive schemes?
I dont recall Rick saying anything about it. Hell, maybe Mario didnt even consider an extension with a team running a new scheme.
At this time I would tell Mario that he owes it to himself to test FA. He is going to do it anyway. Just tell him to let them talk to him before he signs. Then go about signing up their priorities. Then again I am not sure how much talk goes on about offers for FA before the official date arrives. If he finds out he is not as highly sought after as thought then the Texans MAY have a chance.
Just my opinion.
I really don't think Mario will be a Texan next year based on all the circumstances. Of course I felt that 10 months ago and my feeling have not changed.
Still upset that they will get nothing but cap space when he is gone.
Just my opinion.
I really don't think Mario will be a Texan next year based on all the circumstances. Of course I felt that 10 months ago and my feeling have not changed.
Still upset that they will get nothing but cap space when he is gone.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
definitely a fluff piece....he overplayed his hand a bit though.
Hmm... since we won`t be able to sign any FAs, shouldn`t we at least get a compensation pick (and with Marios value probably a 3d rounder)?
I don`t know much about the cap and what all the possibilities are. What I do know: don`t let a player like Mario walk - a player that most teams in the NFL would love to habe. Do everything you can to sign him to an extension - and if you feel like you don`t need him, trade him and get at least a couple of high draft picks in return.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Of course everyone also expected Arian to be a hold out at the beginning of this year...& he showed up on time & balled out so......you never know.
redwhiteblue
Waterboy
In the past three weeks the Steelers trimmed $32.91 from their payroll by restructuring and cutting Hines Ward ($3million). I think the Texans can find a way to keep they players they want to keep
I don't know if that would have made any difference.
Listening to 790 on the way home (Charlie Palilo; I think), he says the Texans have $7M of cap space, with the current 2012 contracts. Even if they had extended Mario last year, there's no way he would have a cap number less than $7M.
We'd still have work to do to sign Foster & Myers.
I don't know how we got our cap so screwed up, we don't have a team full of "big money guys" we'll we do, but they aren't getting big money.
If the Texans lose more free agents than sign, there will be compensation picks. If they sign as many (or more) free agents than they lose, they get no compensation picks.
That doesn't make much sense, considering Williams' $17 million in 2011 is coming off the books in 2012.
ckhouston
Veteran
ESPN's John Clayton reports that teams within the NFC West believe that the Seattle Seahawks will make a serious run at Texans OLB Mario Williams.
Head coach Pete Carroll suggested that the team does plan on pursuing some of the best available defensive ends in this free agent market.
http://nfltraderumors.co/seahawks-planning-on-pursuing-mario-williams/
*********************
I'm hopin the big boy goes there, and not some place a lot closer like maybe
Jacksonville ?
Head coach Pete Carroll suggested that the team does plan on pursuing some of the best available defensive ends in this free agent market.
http://nfltraderumors.co/seahawks-planning-on-pursuing-mario-williams/
*********************
I'm hopin the big boy goes there, and not some place a lot closer like maybe
Jacksonville ?
Williams isn't going to a losing team like Seattle or Jacksonville. Nor Buffalo. If he doesn't get a really big offer from a playoff team (Atlanta? New England?), Mario will be back with the Texans.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
If Mario doesn't sign with the Texans before free agency, he's not coming back. If the Texans don't sign him, they will be busy re-signing there guys and won't have room for him. He's gone on the 13th, unless they sign him before that. As a matter of a fact, if you see the Texans signing Foster, Myers, and a couple others this week, you'll know the Texans have already turned the page on Mario. If they've determined to re-sign him, he's going to have to be the 1st or 2nd domino, I think.
False Start
On # 69
Yep. If he signs with a crappy team, it will prove its all about the money. I have a feeling that it might just happen.
I agree with this. But, let's not be naive. Mario's agent will know how much $$$ is out there and from whom before the bell sounds on free agency. Probably already knows. Williams will be able to make an informed decision when the Texans make an offer.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I'm sure you're right. My point, though, is that the Texans will have moved on before March 13. My guess is that if they are trying to sign him they must do that first so they can plan the rest of their off-season. Given that it's now only 8 days until free agency, if it doesn't happen in the next couple days, I don't think it will. The Texans have to get moving on Foster, Myers, and company.
I don't know how the order of signing would play out. Which puts me in the same group as everyone else. Some guys may have to re-structure. Some guys may have to agree, so that the Texans know exactly what they have to offer. I don't know. You don't know. No one not on the Texans really knows.