badboy
Hall of Fame
where do you get that from?
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Mario movement rumors (MERGED) Signs with Buffalo $100 million
- Thread starter gafftop
- Start date
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Dont you remember a few key players restructuring their contracts to get us under the cap after we spent all that money on Joseph and Manning. We're right at our cap, next off-season will be a crazy one
drs23
Veteran
Next years cap goes up a minumum of 13 mil IIRC due to the new TV contracts. Then there's the borrow 3 mil from the future for 2 more years after this season. I'm not so sure it's as dire as some folks are saying IMO. I think Rick Smith did a good job of juggling the books to sign JJO and Manning and will be able to jiggle enough to do what he needs to do next season. If he has one here, that is.
I think he's talking about the cap for the current year. The guy he was responding to was saying we should have done more than draft Brooks Reed in the second Round to "prepare" for Mario's injury.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
^^ This, next year will be interesting, but as the other guy said, we SHOULD be ok, even though we will be dishing out a ton of money on Mario, but for this season, there was literally nothing more we could have done.
Anthony713
Practice Squad
He also has more sacks on Manning than anyone else in the league since he joined. And that is why we drafted him right?
Jackie Chiles
Veteran
I look forward to Mario being resigned, continuing to grow in this system and being extremely productive. That this scenario will likely piss gafftop off is a nice little bonus.
You are correct. If the Texans sign Mario to a long term high dollar contrat I will be PISSED. If they franchise him as LB I will not be pissed at all. My whole premise for this thread was Mario had value. I thought the drop down from Mario to say Jamison would be justified if we could PU a 1A/ real 2 WR and a NFL caliber CB. I just think Mario was overated and that is when you can make a trade to improve your WHOLE team plus he always seems to have some sort of physical problem.
How much difference did it make in the teams defensive performance Sunday with Mario not on the field ? Hard to say for sure, but they played very well until the last few minutes of the game. Now it's my understanding that Wade was basically rushing 5 guys throughout the Ravens game, and I'm wondering if he also did that when Mario was still in the lineup ? Just trying to measure defensive performance before and after Marios exit ? Mario's injury does give us 2/3 rds of a whole season to guage the defense minus Mario ?
beerlover
Hall of Fame
With both a healthy Mario & Andre the Texans would have won that game, not to mention the game before & their record would be 5-1 instead of 3-3.
If a trade had been made and we had a 1A WR and a quality CB where would we be? Exact same team we have now only instead of Mario we have a 1A wr and a quality CB. Even before the Mario injury I would have been in favor of the WR and CB. I think Jamison played good. Just my opinion.
Kthx
Rookie
As much as I really like Mario I think right now after the season he had before he got hurt I think we sell high honestly. If we could get a good trade for him, or even a high draft pick, talking a late first or early second here we should do it. As much as I like him the guy is constantly injured. Like I said I realize how important he is but being able to have some cap room next season to pick up a FA or two, and being able to have another draft like last years with Watts/Reed/Harris (only this year a WR hopefully) would make us better than keeping him.
That's probably true, but what can one say about injuries ? It's just bad luck and something a team has to live with ? Of course having a "deep" team is certainly the best hedge against injuries.
The cold, hard reality is that injuries (or the lack thereof) are probably the biggest variable in determining a teams chances of going into the playoffs ?
Well there u have it. Jamison played well.
Heard today that the franchise cost on Mario is about 20 mill. When I made statement above I thought his franchise cost would be 10 mill as a LB. Sorry at 20 mill or 1/7 of whole salary cap for the TExans for next year I would say pass. Just don't sign him to a big dollar long term contract. Just my opinion.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I think you are a bit high. His capis just over $15m with salary a bit lower.
http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Houston-Texans-Salaries
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/mario-williams/
Salaries and true cap hits are hard to find but this should be very close.
BullNation4Life
All Pro
I say trade Mario to the Eagles for Rodgers-Cromartie and a 1st round pick. I hate to see him go, but I have a bad feeling that if they sign him to a new contract, his number of games played will start to dwindle as the years go on...
Sucks but do whats best for the team for the future...
Sucks but do whats best for the team for the future...
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
I think he means next year to franchise Mario it will cost close to 20 million, assuming they don't sign him to a longterm deal.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
They don't need any more pass-rushing DEs. But you know who may have use for him? The Jags, Titans, Broncos, Vikings, maybe the Raiders or San Diego...
It will be interesting to see what they do with him, but I expect him to be re-signed for a boatload of money because we have to make sure the NFL knows we made the right choice in 2006.
BullNation4Life
All Pro
I heard 24 million on the radio...DAMN that's allot of scratch for one year...
BullNation4Life
All Pro
No, no if I am trading Mario, it's to the NFC. No way in hell do I take the chance of having to face him twice a year.... Schaub would go fetal position for sure if he saw that monster coming at him...
Maybe talk to the Saints or even Carolina, he's from that part of the world...
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
I looked it up on wiki:
120% of 14.8 million is 17.76 million (Patriotic, eh?). That's how much it will cost for Mario to play under the franchise tag next year. That's an insane amount and it puts the front office in a bad spot for negotiating if they tag him. Last year, the F tag cost for a DE was 12.4 million, 9.7 million for a linebacker. So suppose he was tagged, and Rick Smith starts negotiations with Mario's agent. A likely offer would be somewhere in the range of 9 million a year over 4-5 years. Why not play under the tag for 8 million more and then go get a big contract the next year? He's young enough to not have to worry about it. Might be worth his time to cash out in 2013 instead of 2012, similar to what Dunta did.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Yeah, Carolina is rebuilding still, and I could see them going for a DE in the 1st this year. Quinton Couples would make a lot of sense for them if they have a top 5 pick, but they could also go with a WR in that spot. Maybe they go after Mario in free agency and take a WR or OT with their 1st. I dunno, I just don't see any team giving up a 1st and a 3rd to get Mario after these last two season's injuries.
badboy
Hall of Fame
To clarify when I responded to Gafftop's post #217, I thought he was talking about Mario's cost for the 2011 season. You are saying he was talking about next season's cost I take it?
badboy
Hall of Fame
True but do you think any team will pay Mario $18m salary for one year? No way. He knows that. He will take the deal that suits him best. For example, he could be offered a 6 year (27 years old next Jan) contract $80m. $25 m bonus divided by 6 (to determine cap) He would avg $9 m salary + $4m bonus = $13m salary cap hit. He gets $25m upfront and guaranteed two year salary ($18m). So 1st year he has the $9m salary + 25m bonus= $34m. Think he'd sign that rather than take a franchise tag? Benefit to team is he can be cut after two years costing team only $4m against cap/year. With $25m up front he could be pursuaded to take a smaller salary first two season to backload the deal. That happens and if I am right his first contract was similar.
A $13million cap hit for an OLB that should get 15 sacks a season or a disruptive DE like he has provened to be is reasonable. I think we would get 2-3 trade offers IF we decided not to keep him. His cap hit this season $14m and cap is expected to increase about that much next year. So we can re-sign him at about same under the $120m cap(of this year) and still have the increase next season of about $14m to spend elsewhere + the other amounts allowed by new CBA. What could we do with another first and second round selections + $14m saved by trading Mario +$14m in increased cap space + $3million allowed in new CBA? That's $31million plus an extra first and second round to select or trade.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Probably not a top 15 one and two but what about N.E. at 30 & 31 or 31 and #63? Leaving PATs with a first and second to draft.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
A cap number north of $10 million would mean that Arian Foster doesn't get a new deal, Schaub doesn't get extended, and we are unable to go get anyone significant in free agency. NO THANKS! If we let Mario walk without a trade, the trade is the cap room to do other business. The only way Mario is a Texan next year is if they sign him to a long term deal. The long term deal, even if it is for huge dollars, will be much more cap friendly the first few years... Still, I wouldn't want him for anything more than 5 yrs and $45 million.
TEXANRED
Texan-American
If it came down between Mario or Schaub I would take Mario any day of the week.
As much as I want to agree I just cannot.
The defense can still be successful as a unit without Mario.
Don't have a good qb and your offense is going to ****. Schaub is pretty good and by the sheer nature of his position that increases his value ten fold.
I agree with you here...... While its hard to replace a guy like Mario because at times he can dominate one-on-one match ups, we've seen Wade do some things scheme wise to still apply pressure after he went out.
Its much more difficult to find a QB to step in and run this offense the way Matt does. Sure he's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but I think he may be a little bit undervalued by some people. I'm all for drafting a QB of the future maybe in the next couple of drafts, but I'm not ready to start all over with another guy at this point unless we're replacing him with a veteran who can step in and produce right away. And there aren't many guys who are head and shoulders above Matt talent wise in the league who would be available to replace him with.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
That's just silly! If Mario was healthy but Schaub was out for the year, do you think we would be in the position we are in? or better?
You want to go with Leinart? a rookie QB? or someone on the scrap-heap this off-season? Thank God you aren't making decisions for the Texans!
Without Mario, the Texans are in the top 10 in defense in almost every category. Take Schaub away from the offense, the offense would be in the bottom half of the league in almost every category.
Imatexanfan
Hall of Fame
Yawl have to count in that when MW does play, he almost always gets double-teamed which leaves open holes in the opponents O-line...he is still a big weapon but I am starting to come to terms that it is time to see what we can get for him this offseason.
The fact that IF we trade em to an AFC South team is absurd, we DO NOT want to face this guy twice a year, it will be the VY incident all over again...we do not want that...
The fact that IF we trade em to an AFC South team is absurd, we DO NOT want to face this guy twice a year, it will be the VY incident all over again...we do not want that...
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I don't agree with this philosophy. If you are trading an asset, I believe you take the best compensation you can get, regardless of whether he is in the division or conference. You have to trust your decision-making. If the organization determines Mario is not worth his price then he isn't a very good value for Jacksonville or Tennessee either. If they offer more compensation, take it and stick them with an overpaid, injury-riddled, DE.
TEXANRED
Texan-American
If Rosenfels hadn't pulled a Rosencopter he would be our starting QB right now. Schaub is nothing special, good or bad. Mario is special. Out of 64 starting DE's in the league he is a top ten. Schaub is a top 15 out of 32.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
This!!
I don't know if that's true. We simply don't know.
I don't think it is good business to try to find out or anything, but the fact of the matter is that we do not know.
Have we ever had another QB step in with this OL? With Ben Tate & Arian Foster in the backfield? With Dressen, Cassey, & OD?
I don't think so. Bottom line, Schaub isn't a gamer, he takes what he can get & that's it. It works fine for us, he's pretty good at it & our offense is ranked pretty high because of it. However, I think the argument can be made that it is just as much because of the system & play-makers around Schaub as it is Schaub.
Again, it would be stupid to drop Schaub to keep Mario & see what Lienart or some other unproven or failed-at-a-previous-stop QB can do. But we signed Schaub to big money before he played a down...
At the same time, I'd look at what Washington is doing with the Shanahans, Grossman, & Beck...... not very enticing if you ask me. But they don't have an Arian Foster or a gel'n OLine.
I think a lot of people think this way. Even though he has been a better player for this club than Mario has from day one. He's a gamer & a true leader.
He had an injury that will most likely negatively affect his play for the rest of his career. But we've yet to see what he can bring to this system, this defense. He's not 100% healthy yet, & this has been his only injury that I can think of.
I just think it's a little early to start counting him out. I'll wait to see what he does over the second half of the season & in the play-offs before I make that decision.
I'm not really counting him out, but Cushing is the LB that is in on all packages at this point. I don't know Demeco's snap count but it seems pretty low. With the big contract we just paid him it seems like we can get that kind of production and play time for cheaper with someone that is younger, healthier and more athletic.
We'd be losing some leadership, that's for sure...
In a perfect world I'd like to get keep everyone. I actually think that is what is going to happen by the way, but for discussion's sake if I were just making what I thought would be the best decision for the team I'd trade Demeco or ask him to restructure so we could bring all his buddies back and add more help.
Kthx
Rookie
I don't know man, DeMeco is like Houstons Lewis, I think even though his production is down this year due to injury that he will be back next season at a higher level especially considering he will have a full off-season of trainer backed workouts instead of on his own. We are a really really young team and sometimes you just can't assign a dollar value on the experience and leadership a player brings to the table.
I agree with you to a certain extent on retaining guys with leadership and experience, but if it comes down to a situation of letting go of DeMeco in order to make sure the other guys get signed then I'd do it. There will be other vets who will be on the market next year that won't demand that much money. Its a tough situation though, and hopefully we'll be able to keep all of them. Just hope DeMeco hits his stride these last 6 games and finds a way to be more of an impact player dealing with his injuries. Its a lot to ask of the guy I know, but we'll need him at some point in the season.
Kthx
Rookie
Yeah I would agree with you also but I will stick to what I said during the whole Cushbeast overtraining saga.
I told everyone who was freaking out over his bad season that no matter how many steroids you do it doesn't make you a smarter player, it doesn't help put you in position to make tackles, it doesn't make help you judge where to play coverage.
I will say the same thing in regards to DeMeco, assuming he gets his speed back (well see after the injury) even if he loses a tiny bit of power and speed he still hopefully has that instinct to be where he needs to be when he needs to be there.
I told everyone who was freaking out over his bad season that no matter how many steroids you do it doesn't make you a smarter player, it doesn't help put you in position to make tackles, it doesn't make help you judge where to play coverage.
I will say the same thing in regards to DeMeco, assuming he gets his speed back (well see after the injury) even if he loses a tiny bit of power and speed he still hopefully has that instinct to be where he needs to be when he needs to be there.
Unfortunately these are some of the decisions that playoff teams have to deal with. Guys step up and play above the level they're currently paid, and tough choices have to be made about who to keep and who to let go of. I'll wait until the end of the year to make any kind of judgement on Meco, and what we do with Mario. Things could change a lot between now and March.