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Mario movement rumors (MERGED) Signs with Buffalo $100 million
- Thread starter gafftop
- Start date
My pipe dream would be to have them both.
I think just as many underestimate Mario's ability. And why would Nnamdi want to come to Houston if we got rid of one of our better defensive players???
Didn't we already have a trade Mario" thread?
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
A piece here, a piece there in the secondary, and the personnel for the front seven is basically in place.... Nose tackle not withstanding. Pollard was fun, and a great to watch but at the same time - good riddance!!! Quinn will work. I still feel that Jackson will figure it out and with that said, I don't see him as any sort of Pro-Bowler but decent enough...
The defense was horrible, not just because of lack of talent, but let's face it.... The coaching was horrible too.. A talent and coaching upgrade would do wonders under Phillips. I can see this defense going from like 30th in the League to somewhere around 17th and optimistically 14th or 15th....
That's what makes it fun, and this why I continue to buy tickets....
That said, we could go 2-14 again!
The defense was horrible, not just because of lack of talent, but let's face it.... The coaching was horrible too.. A talent and coaching upgrade would do wonders under Phillips. I can see this defense going from like 30th in the League to somewhere around 17th and optimistically 14th or 15th....
That's what makes it fun, and this why I continue to buy tickets....
That said, we could go 2-14 again!
This is not just a trade Mario thread. It is more a thread on how to maybe get Nnamdi. I agree with you about Nnamdi not wanting to come to Houston but I think that would be the same even if Mario was here. You are going to have to pay if you want NA. I think Mario has great ability when healthy but his desire is in question and more importantly he seems to always be just a little hurt so he can't play to his full potential.
Except Aso is a man without a team..... UFA. Who are we going to get these draft picks from?
& you forget to mention we'll be losing a veteran proven pro bowl player.
Like I said, if it makes the team better, I'm in..... but this won't happen.
You have to read the whole thread. Him and Norg don't think Mario is a pro bowl player.
You pay Aso and trade Mario for veteran defensive player and draft choices to free up money.
You are probably right but I hope the Texans are exploring the possibility.
So we get Nmandi straight up in FA....
Trade Mario to Cincinnati for Domata Peko, Reggie Nelson, and their 3rd, 5th & 6th round pick?
Something like that?
Definitely think the Texans should be exploring every possibility. Don't know that we should give up Mario.
Though going to a 3-4.... eh... I can see Amobi & Antonio as our starting DEs..... trade down, pick up Cameron Heyword & a couple of more picks...
Something like that.
My point was simple...if you can't provide an example of someone in Mario's shoes 'moving' to a 3-4 and improving, then you're asking him to accomplish what no 4-3 DE has done before. Wade's good, but it's asking a lot to break new ground. Lord, I really, truly DO hope I'm wrong.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
oh i understand what your saying, but I'm saying that M.W is one of the more athletic DEs I've ever seen. I just wouldn't count him out before he's had a shot.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Ellis, I totally agree with you on this point on MW.... I actually think he'll shine in this defense (barring injury), he'll be spectular...
*****************
I digress, Rockets win... Congrats Rick Adelman!!
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
yeah hopefully he comes back next season fully healthy and can return to his 08 form. When he is on, he is unstoppable. Many forget he has a nose for the ball, after these past two mediocre seasons.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
YO!!! I never forgot it...
I also still recognize he was a better pick than Vincent (juvenile) Young and Reggie "they didn't trust me in the Rose Bowl, so that I didn't get a get a carry in the fourth quarter and they all went to : "LenWhale!"
I also still recognize he was a better pick than Vincent (juvenile) Young and Reggie "they didn't trust me in the Rose Bowl, so that I didn't get a get a carry in the fourth quarter and they all went to : "LenWhale!"
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
MW does not change directions quickly or accelerate quickly. A lot has to do with his physical makeup. I agree for his size he does OK but bottom line he is not what I would call quick or mobile. I think this is why he basically only bull rushes. He just can't get the footwork down. Just my opinion.
BullNation4Life
All Pro
Alot of the footwork is on coaching and Mario Williams and that defense hasn't had one decent Defensive Coordinator who knew what the hell they were doing yet, until now.
Now as to you trading Mario for Aso, I say no because you do not need an Aso in the secondary to have a successful defense. Is it nice to have, absolutely but not necessary. So if it isn't necessary to have a lock down CB to make you defense successful, then why trade away one of your important cogs of the defensive line?
go look at the defenses in the league that run a good 3-4 defense. Maybe one or two have a "true" lock down CB where the rest rely on competent CBs and a very strong pass rushing scheme. That is where the success lies in a 3-4, the pass rush. One of the reasons Williams in Green Bay looked like an All-Pro this year was A: he could stay with the receiver B: he capitalized on the pass rush making the QB make mistakes. Same thing with McCourty in NE. If you have CBs that can do this, you will be very successful on defense.
Also I would say a good ball hawking safety would be more important in a 3-4 than a lock down corner. A player that can play both in the box and cover somebody.
but hey that is just my opinion....
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Everyone will have different thoughts as to what Mario is worth.
The way I look at it is that we'd be trading probably our best Defensive player and the one that has the most upside. It would SEVERELY weaken our DL which already has question marks.
So what do we get in return for that?
-A free safety in Reggie Nelson that has been one of the bigger 1st round S busts in a long time. I doubt he beats out Troy Nolan.
-Domata Peko who appears could play the NT for us but I havn't watched him play (could be a hot prospect). If I'm not mistaken though, he's played nothing but 4-3 DT so Wade would be "projecting" that he would "fit" at NT.... not a proven guy.
-Then we get Three 3rd day draft picks. I question the impact that a 5th and 6th rounder will make on this team in the next year.
To me that trade (and I know it's just one of thousands of examples) just replaces one of the better DEs in the league with the possibility of a starting NT that's never played in a 3-4 and some depth.
If we look at some suggestions like this year's 1st and 2nd round picks for Mario... we're drafting 2 unproven rookies. There's more certainty to me that Wade can put Mario in a position to succeed than there is in just 1 of the rookies being a solid longterm answer. It's just way too risky a move for me.
I see the possibility of some upside like others may... but I think Mario will do good for us. I think there's just a lot on here that either think he's a bust already or think all of a sudden he's going to fall apart and not be good. I don't see that.
BullNation4Life
All Pro
I just don't see how folks can call a 2-time (should be 3-time) Pro Bowl DE a bust, makes no sense to me.....
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
All the more reason to be intruiged by what he's done to date. He's considered one of the most complete 4-3 DEs in the leauge WITH those seasonal nagging injuries - plantar fascitis, sports hernia, shoulder... whatever else there was. Now I'm not saying "yay he always has some injury" but at least they have been "severe" injuries that have kept him off the field... he's played through them every season and performed well as compared to the rest of the league.
Maybe some think he'll be exposed to more as a "3-4 DE" but I really don't think his role is going to change drastically than what he's done in the past. Just like Wade is saying his NTs don't have the same responsibility as other 3-4 NT's.... I don't think Mario will have the same role as most other 3-4DEs.
I don't think Mario is a bust. I do, however, believe we're treating him as the defensive equivalent of David Carr..... the coaching staff that is. He's been nicked up every year since we got him, & we've yet to put together a decent rotation to allow him to take some time off. I know this was supposed to be that year, but with injuries to Bullman & Barwin, it didn't shake out that way...... & he ends up missing games because of a sports hernia.
I'm very high on Mario, glad he's a Texans, & hope he finish his career here..... but, if it's going to make the team better, why not?
I know my scenario may not make for a better team, but I was just throwing something out there, to get a better understanding of what gafftop was talking about.
If it were me (Rick Smith), he would be on the table. Gary & Wade would have to find a way to motivate him, if a deal doesn't get done. But this is business.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
He's certainly not a bust. People overreact because he is not fulfilling his ability. He has had one outstanding year and one very good one. The other three years, he has been inconsistent and flashed his ability but has not been anywhere near a dominant force. He has the ability to be Bruce Smith, Reggie White, etc... instead, he hasn't even matched the best sack season of Patrick Kerney, Adewale Ogunleye, or Elvis Dumervil... And last season, he played like a dead fish most of the season. I know he was injured. However, if he couldn't play with the injury, he should have got it taken care of.
Agree
Agree
Agree
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
I don't disagree with what you're saying... but I think there's just as big a risk of Von Miller not making a significant impact for us at 3-4 OLB as Mario in the 3-4DE spot. I know that's not going to be popular because it appears Miller walks on water to some around here. I think there's even less chance of Miller performing well if Mario is not on the team taking on blockers in front of him. Mario + Miller could be a deadly combo though.
And yes I know Miller played in the 3-4 during college... for ONE year. And all he was asked to do was rush into the backfield (which he did very well). But it's easier to get by on that speed and athleticism in college than as a rookie in the NFL with arguably the worst 3-4 DL in front of him. (Thats assuming Mario is gone and Antonio Smith is starting along with... I don't know WHO at NT/DE).
We spread out the risk if we make the trade. We need alot of help on defense. If Mario was a sure thing in the new system then I don't know if it makes as much sense. But Mario is a BIG question mark. I don't think the Texans can gamble and hope he is happy in his new role and healthy. I do think he is thought of highly around the NFL or at least I hope he is or this deal will not work. Gary above said in one instant a player could be gone. If we do nothing we only have Mario. If someone is willing to trade maybe we get 3 for 1 and even if 1 goes down we have 2 other productive players. Also maybe NA is not the one to get. Maybe you get 2 highly productive players and a draft choice in the trade and sign someone else in FA, then package the 11 with the choice picked up and move up to get a better player in the draft. I don't know. All I know is if the trade happens we have multiple chance to be successful. Keep Mario and you are rolling the dice on Mario.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
have we been watching the same Mario Williams. They one i watch is very quick at getting off the ball. And does have pretty good feet.
Probably footwork was not the best term. Maybe he is not the quickest in direction change. Just not able to get around the corner. I know he is fast for his size, but for direction change he was the slowest for the d lineman at the combine based on 3 cone and 20 yrd shuttle. Many of his sacks occur when the QB holds the ball or the QB steps into him. He seems to be a step slow. I think he is good player but expendable. He may be the only trade piece the Texans have that could help them improve in multilple areas. Again just my opinion.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Yes, I mentioned on another thread. Mario to N.E. for their # 17 and a 2nd. Then trade #11 to them for #28 & #33. We get Aso, BPA at #17. Aaron Williams for our FS, The Baylor NT @ # 33 and use the other two 2nds for an OlB and BPA.
I agree to the concept, just not sure about specific names. I would like to get a solid d player in the trade. Texans aren't the best at drafting. But yeah that is what I am talking about, a mini Herschel Walker trade.
Heard McClain say the Texans will attempt to trade up for Von Miller....
FWIW.....
FWIW.....
Well, that pretty much guarantee's we will not be trading up for Miller.
So you would rather have a habitually injured, party boy that says he's no really into playing in a 3-4. Over the best CB in the NFL.
Taking Aso and drafting Watt/Jordan/Muhammed in the 1st would seem to be the way to go. All of these guys have better motors than MW and you get ASO.
I understand what you are saying, but trading Mario does not guarantee getting Aso to sign here. And if Aso will sign here, why can't you keep Mario and then draft a Houston or Watt or whoever your top rated OLB may be?
Agreed
Plus MW is going to be due a huge contract extention after this season. (He will get one whether it's from the Texans are somebody else based on untapped potential) So the time is right to trade him now while you can get something close to maximum value.
MW is one of those guys who will leave you at the altar. In short he's overrated. (Always got some kind of freak injury.) The Texans need to rebuild this defense with high character guys. Not guys who are more worried about bling and racing their sports cars. Am I the only one that gets the feeling that football isn't the #1 priority in MW's life?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Yeah let's get NFL football players not worried about bling (not sure where that even came from but whatever) and we'll go 0-16.
There was one friggin' video of Mario in his car and the guy narrating it is lying about the speeds they are going plus it clearly isn't a race.
Frankly I would regard anyone who owned a Lambo and didn't unleash it every once in a while as a total jackass. Don't buy the car if your only intention is to get poon.
'Cak!
True
Even if you weren't going to get ASO if a team offered a Jared Allen type deal you would have to take it.
A deal like that would accomplish the most important thing that the Texans are lacking. IMHO
It would change the country club mentality that currently resides in the Texans lockerroom.
Whatever
You keep on believing.
Everything is OK. If you say it enough people will begin to believe it. Oldest trick in the book.
BTW, MW was a big part of what was one of the worst defenses in NFL history. MW is and always will be a classic underachiever. Would you say he has underachieved so far in his college and NFL careers in relation to his god given abilities?
What have MW's teams ever accomplished?
Does the fact that the Texans made the right decision to draft MW over Bush and VY play a part in the undying MW fandom?
And MW is on record as saying he doesn't want to play in a 3-4. Yeah this is going to end well. O/U MW is hurt within 8 games.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
what have AJs teams in the NFL accomplished ???? but u still respect him dont you.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You really don't get my point at all? - really? I don't care if someone says they don't think Mario will work well in a 3-4 or we should trade him if we can for a more useful part to the team. What I object to is people piling on and making things up. Mario wears bling (again don't know where that came from) but so what? Mario likes to drive fast. Again so what? That means jack crap about his motivation or performance as a football player.
Blah, blah, blah. I have always rejected the X player's team achieved argument whether good or bad. Like every player on VY's national championship team is a winner and obviously they are all in the NFL as starters now. Like the SB winner from last year won't be changing up their personnel this year. It's a team sport. The team record is not a reflection of individual players.
This is like the knucklehead over at HT.com that wants to get rid of Andre Johnson because the team has never been good with him.
No the fact that even injured he is one of the best DE's in football is what results in saying he is one of the best DE's in football.
Pull the quote and I guarantee you are spinning a negative.
During Gary's press confrence one of the reporters asked the question about MW nt wanting to play in a 3-4 and in what I consider to be a change of attitude Gary basically said MW is going to have to accept the change.
This is the main reason why I'm not against taking a DE in Rd 1. That and there will be a BPA DE. Also maybe drafting a DE high might light a fire unde both MW and A.Smith.
AJ has won in college and you're right football is a team sport and MW isn't living up to his responsibilties.
Sorry if you consider me calling MW an injury prone underachiever is piling on. But MW is what he is and most likely what he always will be. It should be interesting to see if Wade can get the best out of MW and if MW's able to live up to the hype. It wont be on Wade, he's proven himself (B.Smith and others) I'm not getting my hopes up. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Maybe I set my expectations too high. I expect a talent like MW to be a leader on and off the field. So far MW hasfailed in this regard.
This is the main reason why I'm not against taking a DE in Rd 1. That and there will be a BPA DE. Also maybe drafting a DE high might light a fire unde both MW and A.Smith.
AJ has won in college and you're right football is a team sport and MW isn't living up to his responsibilties.
Sorry if you consider me calling MW an injury prone underachiever is piling on. But MW is what he is and most likely what he always will be. It should be interesting to see if Wade can get the best out of MW and if MW's able to live up to the hype. It wont be on Wade, he's proven himself (B.Smith and others) I'm not getting my hopes up. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Maybe I set my expectations too high. I expect a talent like MW to be a leader on and off the field. So far MW hasfailed in this regard.
gary
Hall of Fame
I have to believe he is just stiring the pot. Are you serious?
Glad to see a few of you agree. I am afraid Mario will be to Phillips like Carr was to Kubiak. Next year he will be worth much much less. He could be the Stevie Franchise/Yao Ming of the Texans. Just a little angry that the Texans don't see it.
Why the heck was it so important to win the last game of the season. We might of had the 5th draft choice or the 8th at worst.