Kareem Jackson's plight.

[Vinny]

I read those posts earlier, as I said.

To me, when I look at Wade's playbook against this offensive formation, the way the defense lined up, it matches with cover 4 (which is slightly different from cover 8).

Everyone is in man, two safteys over the top. You can call it a cover 4 if you like and you may be right, but I see man coverage with two s over the top to double the wide outs or take the seam if the wr's cut off their routes. The wr at the top of the screen is doubled, all the linebackers are in man coverage. If the mlb plays his technique right, Manning doesn't come downhill and Flacco dumps it down to the Ray Rice in the flat.

There are many different ways to play your coverages. In classic cover 4 the cb's don't tend to hand off their players, so I don't see where you are so sure Jackson was not beat on the play as well. He has a full hip turn early in the sequence and is running full speed. I think we both agree that there are multiple breakdowns on the play.

In any case, I'm not trying to argue your breakdown (you asked me) or your love for KJ

 

[76Texan]

What I observed is that KJ still has to divide his attention (watching the TE route).
Then he had to watch for the seam route as well as the corner route.

I watched Torrey Smith burned the Rams CB (Justin King - 4:31 speed at the combine - in 09 I think) not just on the fly route along the side line or the skinny post where he beat both the CB and the safety (these TDs probably can be seen on nfl.com highlights), but also on a wheel route (out and up) and a seam route where the QB Flacco put the ball just long (on both occasions).

- This is in respond to leebig who thinks that Smith can only run one or two simple routes.

 

[TejasTom]

... Cushing dropped back but failed to follow the TE.

No matter what, the SS Manning needs to read a little better.
As the QB made more than a 5-step drop, Manning should get back immediately (he was about a couple of steps late).

That is how I saw it.

I agree, this what I saw. It also agrees with Kubiak's statement that it wasn't Kareem's play.

I can't tell if KJ released from his man (to pick up the TE) before after the ball was in the air.

 

[Vinny]

I agree, this what I saw. It also agrees with Kubiak's statement that it wasn't Kareem's play.

I can't tell if KJ released from his man (to pick up the TE) before after the ball was in the air.

he didn't. He was sprinting back with a full hip turn and not looking back to help. I think 76 has the sequence if he can provide the link again.

 

[76Texan]

Everyone is in man, two safteys over the top. You can call it a cover 4 if you like and you may be right, but I see man coverage with two s over the top to double the wide outs or take the seam if the wr's cut off their routes. The wr at the top of the screen is doubled, all the linebackers are in man coverage. If the mlb plays his technique right, Manning doesn't come downhill and Flacco dumps it down to the Ray Rice in the flat.

There are many different ways to play your coverages. In classic cover 4 the cb's don't tend to hand off their players, so I don't see where you are so sure Jackson was not beat on the play as well. He has a full hip turn early in the sequence and is running full speed. I think we both agree that there are multiple breakdowns on the play.

In any case, I'm not trying to argue your breakdown (you asked me) or your love for KJ

Oh, I've seen Wade run the inverted cover 2 (on one or both sides), but I don't think it makes sense here with the SAM Cushing already playing the strong hook.
Manning didn't even come downhill. Cushing dropped to right close to where Manning lined up originally.
Manning turned folowed the TE a few steps as the guy made his break, then realized (supposedly in cover 4) that he needs to get back deep.

It would also required KJ to get depth and more depth (especially against a fast receiver.)
If you put your DVR in slow motion, you can see that KJ didn't do this.

The fact that Kubiak said that "it wasn't even Jackson's play to make" (the post route) indicates to me that Jackson's primary tasks were the seam route, the go route and the corner route.

I think you need a stronger argument to go against those words of his.

Edit: You know I always consider your take very carefully!

 

[76Texan]

he didn't. He was sprinting back with a full hip turn and not looking back to help. I think 76 has the sequence if he can provide the link again.

Jackson was looking back at the TE the whole time and as this guy made his cut to the outside.

In pattern matching, the CB has to be aware of the #2 receiver.

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd384/76Texan/Week%206%20at%20Ravens/51yd%20pass%20to%20TSmith/

 

[Vinny]

Jackson was looking back at the TE the whole time and as this guy made his cut to the outside.

In pattern matching, the CB has to be aware of the #2 receiver.

If Jackson is supposed to pick up the TE then he failed miserably. You can't have it both ways. I think you are using a bunch of circular logic to be honest.

 

[Rey]

I read those posts earlier, as I said.

To me, when I look at Wade's playbook against this offensive formation, the way the defense lined up, it matches with cover 4 (which is slightly different from cover 8).

Cover 4

Cover 8

That's not how defenses work.

If you can sit at home and tell what coverage we are running based on how we are lined up then we are in trouble.

Do you really think we are that basic?

 

[Vinny]

That's not how defenses work.

If you can sit at home and tell what coverage we are running based on how we are lined up then we are in trouble.

Do you really think we are that basic?

those diagrams have one lb blizing, while everyone else was in zone. That's not what happened on that play. I'm getting out of the thread here. I think 76 is just trying too hard to show Jackson is a player.

 

[Carr Bombed]

21 pages defending Kareem Jackson.... Why?

 

[76Texan]

If Jackson is supposed to pick up the TE then he failed miserably. You can't have it both ways. I think you are using a bunch of circular logic to be honest.

No, when the SS gets back deep, that's when the SCB gets off onto the out route.

In the playbook, it clearly states that the CB has to key on both the #1 and the #2.
Whoever threatens him deep, that's his main concern.

Now you want to fault him for getting off his secondary task to save a TD?

IT WASN't EVEN HIS PLAY TO MAKE.

I don't see how much clearer Kubiak can put it!

 

[76Texan]

That's not how defenses work.

If you can sit at home and tell what coverage we are running based on how we are lined up then we are in trouble.

Do you really think we are that basic?

I've already know that you can run a multitude of coverages out of a certain shell.

If it's so basic, why do I have to spend gazillions of hours reading diferent playbooks and defenses (with video examples on some) and try to match what happens on the playing field with theory and concept on other occasions.

I did say that on Boldin's 56yd catch, I can't be too positive about the coverage.

What you can try to tell me is what and how you think can apply to Kubiak's statement.

How is it that my analysis on this particular play doesn't match with theory?

 

[76Texan]

those diagrams have one lb blizing, while everyone else was in zone. That's not what happened on that play. I'm getting out of the thread here. I think 76 is just trying too hard to show Jackson is a player.

I just like to study plays, that's all.

The LB blitzing was the WILL Reed, which matches with the diagram.

The SAM Barwin and the MIKE Cushing were in zone match on the #2 and the #3.
The SAM took on the wide of the widest, which was the FB Leach.
The MiKE took the inside route.
The zones were only the first destinations.

Look at the sequence, the 3 LBs in coverage dropped into their zones first.
The most pronounced one was Barwin; he didn't jump on Leach until after he had dropped into his outside zone.
This way, if the TE runs a quick out to the flat, Barwin would have taken him on instead of the FB Leach.
If you follow the sequence tediously, you will see that Barwin looked back at the TE to make sure that he didn't run such a route.
If it was pure man, Barwin would never do that!!!

For the Mo, it was easy; his zone and his man match.
That's why it's called pattern matching (a zone that becomes man coverage quickly).

With Cushing, you can see that he was in zone (and forgot to match with his man, the #2).

If you say that Manning was supposed to be in man coverage on the TE, at least tell me what Cushing was supposed to do?

And what was Quin supposed to do as the FS?

Also, if Manning was supposed to be in "pure" man, he would have never gotten off the TE!

 

[thunderkyss]

21 pages defending Kareem Jackson.... Why?

It's pretty similar to the Chris Myers thread. 76 is more right than not. On this particular play, technically he's correct, but once the ball is snapped, you have to do what you've got to do. Manning screwed up, which changes Jackson's responsibilities.

We're playing that cover 4 to prevent a big play there. Jackson gave up a big play. He may have had help, but that doesn't exonerate him.

Lots of breakdowns on the right side of the field. Cushing, Manning & Jackson.

Take that 51 yarder out of the equation (the catch was questionable anyway) & Torrey Smith ends the night with 2 catches for 33 yards....... whoop!!

 

[thunderkyss]

No, when the SS gets back deep, that's when the SCB gets off onto the out route.

In the playbook, it clearly states that the CB has to key on both the #1 and the #2.
Whoever threatens him deep, that's his main concern.

Now you want to fault him for getting off his secondary task to save a TD?

IT WASN't EVEN HIS PLAY TO MAKE.

I don't see how much clearer Kubiak can put it!

Torrey Smith was the deep threat. You just said that is the CBs main concern. He failed.

 

[steelbtexan]

21 pages defending Kareem Jackson.... Why?

Because if you say somebody doesn't suck long enough people will start to believe it.

Everything may not be KJ's fault. But he sure needs alot of help that apparently he never gets. LOL

 

[thunderkyss]

Everything may not be KJ's fault. But he sure needs alot of help that apparently he never gets. LOL

That's not true. Kj has been more good than bad since the season started. You didn't hear about him vs the Colts, or the Dolphins... even though the Dolphins put up 400 yards on McCourty & the Pats. You didn't see or hear from Kj in the New Orleans game outside of that one series in the 4th.

He had a knee injury & sat out against the Steelers. He wasn't 100% the following week & only suited up as an emergency relief vs Oakland. Jason Allen stepped in & you saw what you got there.

Versus Miami, he got picked on & beat up. Pittsburgh he made some plays, got an INT. Got another INT vs Oakland, but neither were because he was in "excellent" coverage. He overplayed both, staying on top of the receiver. The ball was overthrown & he went & got them. That's still better (as far as game changing plays on defense) than what Kj has done from that aspect, but as far as stopping receivers, Kj has been superior. Allen was picked on & gave up yards vs the Steelers, picked on & beat up vs Oakland, giving up lots of yards to Heyward-Bay & a TD.

Allen makes Kj look like a shutdown corner.

People need to forget about Kj's 2010 season, stop taking it personal that Smithiak didn't draft whoever you wanted them to draft, or whatever it is that makes them hate the man, because it isn't his play. In every game this year, he's played better than Dunta Robinson in his last two seasons here, but Dunta never got this kind of hate. Even after the pay-me-rick crap.

 

[steelbtexan]

I dont hate KJ, he's just another below avg CB that Rick and Gary are letting play due to his draft status. KJ is just another sympton of what's wrong with the Texans organization.

 

[76Texan]

Torrey Smith was the deep threat. You just said that is the CBs main concern. He failed.

If you like to put it that way.
But you also want to keep in mind that the deep threat means first of all "the threat in his zone", then you can expand it further if you like.

I prefer Kubiak's statement:
"It wans't even his play to make".

It means he MAKES the play;
he didn't fail the play.

In another word, after he had to make the initial reads as required by coverage, he started reacting to the action on the field; he then went into the post to cover up for somebody's else Failure.

Similar to the thread about the refs, the same thing applies here.
The action on the field is fast.
If you expect a safety to be able to help out on the CB all the time, it's not gonna happen.
And when the safety comes over, usually what you can hope for is a tackle, not a pass break up, unless the safety has good position or the QB made a "not-so-good" throw.
In this case, one can think of KJ as a safety (or almost).

 

[76Texan]

I dont hate KJ, he's just another below avg CB that Rick and Gary are letting play due to his draft status. KJ is just another sympton of what's wrong with the Texans organization.

I know you rather have Patrick Peterson starting for us, right, Jay!?!

 

[b0ng]

Why is it that on a regular basis it appears that Kareem Jackson is simply not fast enough to keep up with whomever he is covering, or that he does not have enough speed to make up for mistakes in footwork or decision making to be able to cover these people? To me, Jackson just plays like a guy that you would not want as a starting CB (Jason Allen falls into the same category), what is it about Jackson's game that makes I, and probably other fans, feel this way?

 

[El Tejano]

Where there's smoke there's fire and in Creamed Jackson's case, he has been burned so bad the smoke is coming off him.

 

[thunderkyss]

I dont hate KJ, he's just another below avg CB that Rick and Gary are letting play due to his draft status. KJ is just another sympton of what's wrong with the Texans organization.

I don't think so. I think his play justifies him being on the field. He's not going to get any better on the sideline & his play so far has not cost us any games.

 

[thunderkyss]

If you like to put it that way.
But you also want to keep in mind that the deep threat means first of all "the threat in his zone", then you can expand it further if you like.

I prefer Kubiak's statement:
"It wans't even his play to make".

It means he MAKES the play;
he didn't fail the play.

In another word, after he had to make the initial reads as required by coverage, he started reacting to the action on the field; he then went into the post to cover up for somebody's else Failure.

I understand & agree with what you're saying. But once that break down occurs & he recognizes it, he should have played it better. He made a play that saved a TD... I'm not denying that. But he is no hero here, with the cushion he was giving, there's no way Smith should have got past him.

 

[beerlover]

It sounds like the very thing that should be helping him is also hurting him, can't win situation.

 

[thunderkyss]

Why is it that on a regular basis it appears that Kareem Jackson is simply not fast enough to keep up with whomever he is covering, or that he does not have enough speed to make up for mistakes in footwork or decision making to be able to cover these people? To me, Jackson just plays like a guy that you would not want as a starting CB (Jason Allen falls into the same category), what is it about Jackson's game that makes I, and probably other fans, feel this way?

We lost three games.

List his break downs vs the Colts & Dolphins. List another breakdown vs Baltimore.

We've been losing so long, that every play, every mistake is critical. Once we start winning, we won't care about a player make one or two mistakes per game.

I'm actually surprised Manning & JJoseph haven't been getting hammered.

Yet.

 

[steelbtexan]

I know you rather have Patrick Peterson starting for us, right, Jay!?!

You are correct sir,

Both KJ and PP are playing at about the same level right now. (Poor)

I believe PP has much more potential due to his vastly superior athletic ability. If it doesn't work out for PP at Cb his size/speed/ball skills should allow PP to be an all pro S someday. IMHO

As of right now i'm giving you that PP hasn't done as well as I expected. But atleast he can still be a big time contributor on ST's. Where else does KJ contribute to the Texans other than sub par CB play.

BTw, even though we disagree on KJ, I appreciate all of the work you do breaking down film and I am looking forward to your work in next yrs mock draft section. It's very informative and should be a must read for mock drafters out there.

 

[STEEL BLUE TEXANS]

I don't think so. I think his play justifies him being on the field. He's not going to get any better on the sideline & his play so far has not cost us any games.

You must have missed the Saints game then.

 

[thunderkyss]

You must have missed the Saints game then.

Other than that one drive..... what have I missed? What other plays did he screw up on?

For the record, there were like 3 slants in a row that were completed in front of him then the touchdown pass caught over him. Those are the plays I'm including in that one drive.

Outside of that one drive, Kj had a solid game against the Saints. We should expect better, I expect better. At the same time, I recognize he is not a shut down corner out of the box. He may be in time, but it won't happen if he is sitting on the sideline.

Not that Kj is Darrell Revis, or anything like it. But for comparison's sake, if you watched the Monday Night game, Revis had a poor series against Marshall.... several bad plays for sure.

Actually, Revis has been having a poor season all together. So one bad series against Brees is not bad for a player you expect to improve.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Because if you say somebody doesn't suck long enough people will start to believe it.

Everything may not be KJ's fault. But he sure needs alot of help that apparently he never gets. LOL

Hmm...sounds like someone I used to waste my time on defending....(Vinny knows)...my name wasn't always "Carr Bombed".

 

[Carr Bombed]

It's pretty similar to the Chris Myers thread. 76 is more right than not. On this particular play, technically he's correct, but once the ball is snapped, you have to do what you've got to do. Manning screwed up, which changes Jackson's responsibilities.

We're playing that cover 4 to prevent a big play there. Jackson gave up a big play. He may have had help, but that doesn't exonerate him.

Lots of breakdowns on the right side of the field. Cushing, Manning & Jackson.

Take that 51 yarder out of the equation (the catch was questionable anyway) & Torrey Smith ends the night with 2 catches for 33 yards....... whoop!!

LOL, this thread doesn't have anything to do with Chris Myers.


Kareem Jackson is a bust...when you're a Texan fan long enough they become easy to identify. I don't get where comparing Kareem Jackson to other struggling players helps his argument either?

 

[Rey]

Not that Kj is Darrell Revis, or anything like it. But for comparison's sake, if you watched the Monday Night game, Revis had a poor series against Marshall.... several bad plays for sure.

Actually, Revis has been having a poor season all together. So one bad series against Brees is not bad for a player you expect to improve.

Tk, you do realize this makes you look crazy right?

I realize you said kj is not revis, but you went on to compare the two anyways.

Ummmmm, revis makes plays dude.

That seems to be what you and 76 are missing.

All corners get beat, some more than others. But what separates the good ones from the bad ones is playmaking ability. Kjax has not displayed any kind of playmaking ability since he has come into the league. Combine that with the fact that he is often picked on or roasted and what you have is a guy that is not good enough.

 

[STEEL BLUE TEXANS]

Pretty damning when the only thing you can compare KJ with is other player's failures rather than accomplishments.

 

[thunderkyss]

Tk, you do realize this makes you look crazy right?

I realize you said kj is not revis, but you went on to compare the two anyways.

Ummmmm, revis makes plays dude.

That seems to be what you and 76 are missing.

All corners get beat, some more than others. But what separates the good ones from the bad ones is playmaking ability. Kjax has not displayed any kind of playmaking ability since he has come into the league. Combine that with the fact that he is often picked on or roasted and what you have is a guy that is not good enough.

I'm not missing that at all. I'm just waiting to see. I don't think Wade is being "forced" to start Kj. Even if that were the case, I think we would see more of Jason Allen if Wade thought he gave us a better option to win. JA didn't really even play vs Baltimore, & while Flacco isn't Brady or Rivers, he's probably the second best QB we've faced this year.

Trust me, I have no love for Kareem. I want the Texans to put the best 11 on the field come Sunday. So far this season, Wade thinks Kj belongs in that group. Judging by his defense's performance so far, you've got to give Wade the benefit of the doubt.

But the "plays" are going to come.

 

[Rey]

I'm not missing that at all. I'm just waiting to see. I don't think Wade is being "forced" to start Kj. Even if that were the case, I think we would see more of Jason Allen if Wade thought he gave us a better option to win. JA didn't really even play vs Baltimore, & while Flacco isn't Brady or Rivers, he's probably the second best QB we've faced this year.

Trust me, I have no love for Kareem. I want the Texans to put the best 11 on the field come Sunday. So far this season, Wade thinks Kj belongs in that group. Judging by his defense's performance so far, you've got to give Wade the benefit of the doubt.

But the "plays" are going to come.

Did David Carr give us a better chance to win than Sage did?

Kareem is a first round pick...He's going to be given ample opprotunity to prove himself because no one wants to see a first round bust. Especially not Bob McNair and Kubiak.

If they thought Kareem was the shyt they wouldn't be platooning him with Jason Allen's sorry ass. C'mon, that has got to be a dead give away.

Kubiak didn't say that Kareem got the start and played more than Allen against Baltimore because he's "the better player" or because "he gives us the best chance to win"....He said "Baltimore is a physical team and Kareem is a physical player"....

For there to even be a discussion of whether or not Allen should play over Jackson is not a compliment.

The fact that you guys keep tearing down good players to show try to prove a point about Kareem is just silly IMO. And as other's have said I don't see how that helps Kareem's case...The fact that the only thing you can compare him to is other players f ups...

I don't want to call him a bust just yet, but he is teetering close to that line...

You are saying he is improving because for 75% of the game he isn't getting picked on...IMO, if you are a first round CB you need to be able to do more than "not getting picked on" for most of the game...

 

[thunderkyss]

Did David Carr give us a better chance to win than Sage did?

Kareem is a first round pick...He's going to be given ample opprotunity to prove himself because no one wants to see a first round bust. Especially not Bob McNair and Kubiak.

The only reason I wanted Capers fired, was because he was McNair's yes man. He kept running Carr out there regardless. Kubiak would've benched Carr if Sage didn't break his thumb that season (I believe that, no doubt in my mind).

If they thought Kareem was the shyt they wouldn't be platooning him with Jason Allen's sorry ass. C'mon, that has got to be a dead give away.

Even in 2010, they said Kareem's biggest problem was staying focused.... he'd have some good series, then lose focus & have some bad series. Kj "improved" over the second half of 2010, because he was able to step back from the game & think about what he was doing.

Kubiak didn't say that Kareem got the start and played more than Allen against Baltimore because he's "the better player" or because "he gives us the best chance to win"....He said "Baltimore is a physical team and Kareem is a physical player"....

I never said he did. I said I believe Wade splits the Kj/Allen time by what he feels is best for the team.

For there to even be a discussion of whether or not Allen should play over Jackson is not a compliment.

If I had my way, Kj would be the nickel. But we didn't get another CB in the off-season who could play the 2nd spot. This is basically the same thing, except we've got a vet who can't hold down the #2 spot & is losing out to a Nickel Corner with serious talent issues.

The fact that you guys keep tearing down good players to show try to prove a point about Kareem is just silly IMO. And as other's have said I don't see how that helps Kareem's case...The fact that the only thing you can compare him to is other players f ups...

I'm just making the same point you were, every corner gets beat. Trying to keep that into perspective. I'm not saying Revis is not the best in the game. I'm not tearing his game apart. You're reading that into what I've posted.

I don't want to call him a bust just yet, but he is teetering close to that line...

You are saying he is improving because for 75% of the game he isn't getting picked on...IMO, if you are a first round CB you need to be able to do more than "not getting picked on" for most of the game...

I guess Joe Haden is a bust? I guess Kyle Wilson is a bust? I guess Devin McCourtey is a bust? or at least "teetering close to that line......"

I'm not a talent scout & I don't pretend to be. All I can do is make comparisons to other players. I'll compare him to the best, because that is the level I think he was drafted to play. I'll compare him to other DBs that were drafted in the same class, especially if we passed on those other guys, to gauge his development.

I'm not going to grade him in a vacuum, because that is an unwinnable position. If we're going to expect him to play a perfect game, when no one else plays a perfect game, he can't win.

 

[Rey]

I guess Joe Haden is a bust? I guess Kyle Wilson is a bust? I guess Devin McCourtey is a bust? or at least "teetering close to that line......"

McCourtey at least has 1 good season under his belt where he made some plays for his team....

Haden has made some plays as well...He had 6 INT's and a sack last year...

Kyle Wilson is a guy that I spoke out against even before he was drafted...I did not like him and still don't care for him...He's not that good IMO...

But seriously, how can you compare Kareem to Haden and McCourty?...They've made more plays and gotten their hands on way more balls than Kareem..

I'm not going to grade him in a vacuum, because that is an unwinnable position. If we're going to expect him to play a perfect game, when no one else plays a perfect game, he can't win.

When you say stuff like this it makes me think you still aren't understanding what I'm saying.

No one expects anyone to play a perfect game. This isn't baseball.

What I do expect from a first round corner is some playmaking ability or really good coverage ability ala Carlos Rogers. So far Kareem has not shown either which is why you get a lot of people wanting to see more of Jason Allen. When he gets into the game he has shown that he can get some turnovers.


I understand that all corners get beat/make mistakes....BUT good corners make plays in between those times...

 

[infantrycak]

Ummmmm, revis makes plays dude.

What plays are those dude? Revis has one more INT during KJ's tenure in the league. They had the same number of passes defended last year. Clearly I would rather have Revis but not sure what you are referring to as making plays.

 

[Rey]

What plays are those dude? Revis has one more INT during KJ's tenure in the league. They had the same number of passes defended last year even though Revis played 3 less games and QB's would rather not throw at him. Clearly I would rather have Revis but not sure what you are referring to as making plays.

First I made a minor correction.

I was watching something on NFL network last night about Revis...They talked about his holdout last year and and how much the team missed him...

And Rex talked about how because he had made so many plays in the past, QB's had stopped testing him really. Even after his holdout and hamstring injuries They didn't even look his way much last year...Look at the tackling numbers....That indicates that a lot of passes weren't completed on him. The year before, he had 31 PD's and 6 INT's...

You're talking about KJ and Revis since they came into the league and I don't really get your point...KJ had more INT's than Revis last year...Revis played 3 less games...another way to look at it is that Revis has made more plays in 6 games than KJ has made since he's been in the league despite QB's not wanting to throw at him...


Revis had 0 picks last year...the only year besides his rookie year that he hasn't had at least 3 INT's....He already has 3 INT's this year despite the fact that QB's would rather not throw his way...

 

[thunderkyss]

I'm not missing that at all. I'm just waiting to see.

Trust me, I have no love for Kareem. I want the Texans to put the best 11 on the field come Sunday. So far this season, Wade thinks Kj belongs in that group. Judging by his defense's performance so far, you've got to give Wade the benefit of the doubt.

But the "plays" are going to come.

That's really all I've got to say about that. Can't put it any clearer.

 

[Vinny]

this thread reminds me of those old David Carr threads where people would rationalize his play as somehow good, and blame the problems on his supporting cast. Hilariously sad.

 

[thunderkyss]

this thread reminds me of those old David Carr threads where people would rationalize his play as somehow good, and blame the problems on his supporting cast. Hilariously sad.

It reminds me of the Chris Meyers threads where people would state Chris isn't playing as bad as the fans perceive him to be. A few bad plays for sure that stick in our minds, but overall his play was much better than fan perception.

 

[Vinny]

It reminds me of the Chris Meyers threads where people would state Chris isn't playing as bad as the fans perceive him to be. A few bad plays for sure that stick in our minds, but overall his play was much better than fan perception.

Meyers didn't play well at first. It wasn't perception. The problem is when fans make up their minds and never change them despite evidence that a player has improved or gotten over injury, or cleaned up technique or whatever. Carr could clean up all the technique he wanted, but he was still Don Knotts in the pocket.

 

[Carr Bombed]

It reminds me of the Chris Meyers threads where people would state Chris isn't playing as bad as the fans perceive him to be. A few bad plays for sure that stick in our minds, but overall his play was much better than fan perception.

That's revisionist history...Chris Myers WAS playing that bad. He deserved all the criticism that he received early on, but kudos to him for stepping his game up/getting healthy or whatever he did. He's a capable starter now...doesn't change the fact that early on he was a liability in the middle and routinely lost 1 on 1 match ups.

The guy was a 6th round pick and was traded for a 6th round pick...he's a self made player who had to put in a lot of hard hard to get to where he's at today. Kareem Jackson is a former 1st round pick who has been given a free ride so far...that makes these two scenarios completely incomparable. They have nothing in common. As another former 1st round pick, the David Carr comparison is much more fitting. Or Travis Johnson or Amobi Okoye..which ever one you want to throw into that spot.

 

[76Texan]

That's revisionist history...Chris Myers WAS playing that bad. He deserved all the criticism that he received early on, but kudos to him for stepping his game up/getting healthy or whatever he did. He's a capable starter now...doesn't change the fact that early on he was a liability in the middle and routinely lost 1 on 1 match ups.

The guy was a 6th round pick and was traded for a 6th round pick...he's a self made player who had to put in a lot of hard hard to get to where he's at today. Kareem Jackson is a former 1st round pick who has been given a free ride so far...that makes these two scenarios completely incomparable. They have nothing in common. As another former 1st round pick, the David Carr comparison is much more fitting. Or Travis Johnson or Amobi Okoye..which ever one you want to throw into that spot.

You wrote him (Myers) off, period.
You bombed!

Please don't try to rewrite anything.
Go back and reread your own posts!

 

[76Texan]

this thread reminds me of those old David Carr threads where people would rationalize his play as somehow good, and blame the problems on his supporting cast. Hilariously sad.

I wasn't among those people!

 

[thunderkyss]

I wasn't among those people!

Neither was I.

 

[76Texan]

First I made a minor correction.

I was watching something on NFL network last night about Revis...They talked about his holdout last year and and how much the team missed him...

And Rex talked about how because he had made so many plays in the past, QB's had stopped testing him really. Even after his holdout and hamstring injuries They didn't even look his way much last year...Look at the tackling numbers....That indicates that a lot of passes weren't completed on him. The year before, he had 31 PD's and 6 INT's...

You're talking about KJ and Revis since they came into the league and I don't really get your point...KJ had more INT's than Revis last year...Revis played 3 less games...another way to look at it is that Revis has made more plays in 6 games than KJ has made since he's been in the league despite QB's not wanting to throw at him...


Revis had 0 picks last year...the only year besides his rookie year that he hasn't had at least 3 INT's....He already has 3 INT's this year despite the fact that QB's would rather not throw his way...

Sorry Rey, you keep throwing out names only to find out you actually didn't watch hardly enough of their games!

One thing you must realize is that when a CB doesn't make the tackle on his man, it means that somebody else is doing it for him!

 

[GNTLEWOLF]

I wasn't among those people!

Unfortunately, I was amoung those who believed in Carr. I didn't really see the light until after he was in carolina and couldn't beat out Delhome nor could he perform whe called on to back-up when Delhome was injured. I was wrong.

 

[jtexas]

His coverage skills list him at 92/98 in ranking of corners. One notable name below him... Dunta Robinson. Thank god we didn't resign him.