Kubiak wants immediate improvement

[The Pencil Neck]

LOL!

Again.......loser's mentality. I don't even know how to respond to this post.

That's twice you've said I have a loser's mentality. You know, maybe you're right.

The thing is... I'm a successful person. I think one of the reasons I'm successful is because I understand the context of things.

I'm a fan. And as a fan, I get to do a lot of things that players shouldn't. I get to look ahead at the schedule. I get to celebrate moral victories. I get to be happy when my team has its first winning season. I get to be happy when the future looks bright.

I think some fans think that they have to think like players. That their thoughts will somehow help the team win the game or something. If a fan isn't going to accept a winning record that doesn't make it into the playoffs or a fan isn't going to be happy with anything less than a playoff berth or a Super Bowl, then that fan is thinking like a player instead of a fan. Wrong context.

I think you're one of those fans. You think you've got a winner's mentality but all you've really got is a bunch of frustration and I don't care who your team is. Because with that mentality, you could be in the playoffs for 11 consecutive years but if you don't win 11 Super Bowls, then you're a loser and you've been a frustrated, pissed off loser every year you didn't win the Super Bowl. That's what your "winner's mentality" gets you.

 

[steelbtexan]

LOL!

Again.......loser's mentality. I don't even know how to respond to this post.



Seriously......when the hell did I EVER talk about winning the SB in a decade. I believe I was talking about atleast making the freaking playoffs.


Enjoy your memory of the "Texans 9-7 lalapolosa 2009" tour......I'll actually wait until this team does something of substance before I click my heals together and claim VICTORY. Seriously After a decade of watching this team, I think I'm atleast entitled to something like that.........since you know just about every NFL fan has experienced watching their team do something that we're still waiting for.

Repped

You stated my thoughts much better than I could have. Thanks

 

[The Pencil Neck]

I get that the Texans aren't going to win the SB every yr. But making the playoffs once a decade shouldn't be an unrealistic expectation.

Start counting that decade when Kubiak came to the team. THEN you don't have an unrealistic expectation. But if you're counting the first 4 years as part of the 10, then yes, you're being unrealistic.

However, even with the debacle that was C&C, we still had a great shot at the playoffs last year and we'll have another great shot this year. Hopefully, there's football the year after that because we'll have another great shot at it.

 

[stingray]

I just want the freaking season to start already.

 

[Carr Bombed]

I'm still not understanding the problem with the celebration right after the win. They just had a comeback win against a good team which kept them alive in the Wild card hunt,( which was not decided at that point.)

Now looking back I can understand not being satisfied with the season,but if Cincy would have taken care of business later that day, the Texans would have just had a playoff berth, and you wouldn't be making this argument.

If, If, If...

I'm sick and tired of hearing about IF.. Seriously.


It's nothing, but more excuse making. No more if's. That's the point you're missing. This is the NFL and nobody cares about if's

Results, Results, Results.....how about we start talking about and showing that. This is Kubiak's last shot at results and as a Texan fan I hope he succeeds, but if I had to be honest...I'm not going to throw down big money on it.

 

[Carr Bombed]

That's twice you've said I have a loser's mentality. You know, maybe you're right.

The thing is... I'm a successful person. I think one of the reasons I'm successful is because I understand the context of things.

I'm a fan. And as a fan, I get to do a lot of things that players shouldn't. I get to look ahead at the schedule. I get to celebrate moral victories. I get to be happy when my team has its first winning season. I get to be happy when the future looks bright.

I think some fans think that they have to think like players. That their thoughts will somehow help the team win the game or something. If a fan isn't going to accept a winning record that doesn't make it into the playoffs or a fan isn't going to be happy with anything less than a playoff berth or a Super Bowl, then that fan is thinking like a player instead of a fan. Wrong context.

I think you're one of those fans. You think you've got a winner's mentality but all you've really got is a bunch of frustration and I don't care who your team is. Because with that mentality, you could be in the playoffs for 11 consecutive years but if you don't win 11 Super Bowls, then you're a loser and you've been a frustrated, pissed off loser every year you didn't win the Super Bowl. That's what your "winner's mentality" gets you.

LOL, all you do is stick words in people's mouths..

Yep, if my team goes on a 11 year playoff streak, I'm not going to be happy.

Wow, how about you actually talk about what I really posted. LOL, if this team managed to atleast make the playoffs once (Something I've never seen before) I'd be content for quite awhile.

P.S.

Congrats on your personal success..... I'm happy for you. (I really am)

 

[The Pencil Neck]

LOL, all you do is stick words in people's mouths..

Yep, if my team goes on a 11 year playoff streak, I'm not going to be happy.

Wow, how about you actually talk about what I really posted.

P.S.

Congrats on your personal success..... I'm happy for you.

Did you not tell me twice that I had a loser's mentality for being happy with a 9 win season? Did I stick those words into your mouth?

We are the only team that has not made the playoffs. You're right about that. But there are lots of teams who've gone on 8 year droughts. There are teams who've been out of the playoffs for a lot longer than a measly 8 years. The Bills are at... what... 10 years now? The Browns at 7? The Broncos took 17 years before their first playoffs. The Bears had a 13 year drought. The Saints waited 20 years before their first playoff game. Let alone the Cardinals, the Lions, and the Falcons.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Did you not tell me twice that I had a loser's mentality for being happy with a 9 win season? Did I stick those words into your mouth?

We are the only team that has not made the playoffs. You're right about that. But there are lots of teams who've gone on 8 year droughts. There are teams who've been out of the playoffs for a lot longer than a measly 8 years. The Bills are at... what... 10 years now? The Browns at 7? The Broncos took 17 years before their first playoffs. The Bears had a 13 year drought. The Saints waited 20 years before their first playoff game. Let alone the Cardinals, the Lions, and the Falcons.

So we're one of the only teams in the entire league who have not made it to the playoffs since the texans have been in the league....."But there are lots of teams who've gone on 8 year droughts."

Sorry, but that just doesn't compute at all. In today's league, if you do the things that you need to do.....it doesn't take long to field a NFL playoff team.

 

[steelbtexan]

Start counting that decade when Kubiak came to the team. THEN you don't have an unrealistic expectation. But if you're counting the first 4 years as part of the 10, then yes, you're being unrealistic.

However, even with the debacle that was C&C, we still had a great shot at the playoffs last year and we'll have another great shot this year. Hopefully, there's football the year after that because we'll have another great shot at it.

I want them to actually make the playoffs. Not just have a great shot at making them yr after yr.

It's a matter of expectations. Mine are higher than yours. Not that yours are wrong.

BTW How many yrs of 7-9/9-7 are you up for until you think a change should be made?

 

[The Pencil Neck]

BTW How many yrs of 7-9/9-7 are you up for until you think a change should be made?

Depends on the season and the circumstance.

The thing is that I think Kubiak is a good coach. I think he's done some really good things with this team and I think he can get us a Super Bowl.

7-9 or worse is only OK if we've had a bunch of injuries. I don't think the coach should lose his job if we lose Schaub, AJ, Demeco, Mario, and Pollard for the year. If we go 7-9 without a bunch of major injuries, then Kubiak should be gone.

I'm fine with 8-8 if that gets us into the playoffs or if there's a bunch of injuries. If we've got all our starters healthy and we finish 8-8 and don't make the playoffs, then we need to start over... with the understanding that we're probably going to drop down to a 4-6 win team the following season.

If we go 9-7, I'll be fine whether we make the playoffs or not as long as 9-7 was good enough to get into the playoffs for another AFC team. If 10-6 was the mark to get into the playoffs, then Kubiak needs to be let go but I won't be upset if he's kept.

If we go 10-6 or better and miss the playoffs, I'm fine with Kubiak.

How about you? If we go 8-8 and make the playoffs, do we fire Kubiak? Or is that settling for mediocrity?

 

[Carr Bombed]

Sometimes I think people are so scared of another "Dom Capers" that they're afraid to even fathom the idea of moving on without Kubiak if he fails this season.

There was a better life without Capers and they'll be one without Kubiak. (Seriously, the bar hasn't been set that high)

With Capers this team was stuck on blocks inside the garage......with Kubiak, they've been stuck in the mud on the side of the highway so far (Finishing with what has essentially been the same record the past 3 seasons, is exactly that). If he can't get this team headed down the turnpike this season, then we need to hand the keys to someone who can, before Andre starts to fade and alot of this young talent starts to move on in FA.

I hope Kubiak is that guy....but if he's not THIS YEAR. Goodbye, time to give someone else a shot.

Not For Long.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Also, it doesn't help that I think that last year was Kubiak's worst coaching job since he's been here.......regardless of the fact that he finished a franchise best 9-7. (which is the main reason why I was never pleased with that record)

I was much more impressed with the 8-8 years despite Schaub missing major time. Last year Schaub had one of the best individual seasons of all time and Kubiak pulls off a 1-5 divisional record which is the main reason why his team was stuck celebrating a non playoff winning season and not a franchise first playoff appearance.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

So we're one of the only teams in the entire league who have not made it to the playoffs since the texans have been in the league....."But there are lots of teams who've gone on 8 year droughts."

Sorry, but that just doesn't compute at all. In today's league, if you do the things that you need to do.....it doesn't take long to field a NFL playoff team.

Cardinals had an 8 year drought from '99-07.
Bills and Lions a 10 year drought.
Bengals have only made it to the playoffs 2 times in the past 10 years and had a 14 year drought that was broken in 2005.
The Browns have made it to the playoffs 1 time in the past 10 years.
The Jaguars and Redskins have made it to the playoffs 2 times in the past 10 years.
The Chiefs have made it to the playoffs 2 times in the past 12 years.
Since we've been in the league, the Dolphins, 49ers, and the Raiders have only made it to the playoffs 1 time each.
Since we've been in the league, the Saints and Rams have made it to the playoffs 2 times.

That's 13 teams that haven't been to the playoffs very much in the past 8-10 years.

There are a few teams that are perennial winner. That's where we want to be. But it's not easy to get there. It's not easy to make it to the playoffs.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Cardinals had an 8 year drought from '99-07.
Bills and Lions a 10 year drought.
Bengals have only made it to the playoffs 2 times in the past 10 years and had a 14 year drought that was broken in 2005.
The Browns have made it to the playoffs 1 time in the past 10 years.
The Jaguars and Redskins have made it to the playoffs 2 times in the past 10 years.
The Chiefs have made it to the playoffs 2 times in the past 12 years.
Since we've been in the league, the Dolphins, 49ers, and the Raiders have only made it to the playoffs 1 time each.
Since we've been in the league, the Saints and Rams have made it to the playoffs 2 times.

That's 13 teams that haven't been to the playoffs very much in the past 8-10 years.

There are a few teams that are perennial winner. That's where we want to be. But it's not easy to get there. It's not easy to make it to the playoffs.

Great so even the majority of the teams you mentioned have had more success than we've had.......how does that help your argument?

You just went from comparing the Texans to the Steelers, Belichick, and Rex Ryan's Jets to some of the worst franchises in the league.

 

[steelbtexan]

Depends on the season and the circumstance.

The thing is that I think Kubiak is a good coach. I think he's done some really good things with this team and I think he can get us a Super Bowl.

7-9 or worse is only OK if we've had a bunch of injuries. I don't think the coach should lose his job if we lose Schaub, AJ, Demeco, Mario, and Pollard for the year. If we go 7-9 without a bunch of major injuries, then Kubiak should be gone.

I'm fine with 8-8 if that gets us into the playoffs or if there's a bunch of injuries. If we've got all our starters healthy and we finish 8-8 and don't make the playoffs, then we need to start over... with the understanding that we're probably going to drop down to a 4-6 win team the following season.

If we go 9-7, I'll be fine whether we make the playoffs or not as long as 9-7 was good enough to get into the playoffs for another AFC team. If 10-6 was the mark to get into the playoffs, then Kubiak needs to be let go but I won't be upset if he's kept.

If we go 10-6 or better and miss the playoffs, I'm fine with Kubiak.

How about you? If we go 8-8 and make the playoffs, do we fire Kubiak? Or is that settling for mediocrity?

Dont care about injuries.

I think the Texans need to go 10-6 for Kubes to keep his job.

While 8-8 and making the playoffs would be good. I would consider that record to be a step back and probably would keep Kubes. But would have to think long and hard about letting Kubes go.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Great so even the majority of the teams you mentioned have had more success than we've had.......how does that help your argument?

You just went from comparing the Texans to the Steelers, Belichick, and Rex Ryan's Jets to some of the worst franchises in the league.

Sorry, but that just doesn't compute at all. In today's league, if you do the things that you need to do.....it doesn't take long to field a NFL playoff team.

In today's league, it's not nearly as easy as you say. If it was that easy, those 13 teams would have a lot more playoff appearances. Those aren't 13 teams of people who are dogging it trying not to win. Winning his hard. Putting together a perennial winner is harder.

Your assertion that it doesn't take long to field an NFL playoff team is obviously wrong. Those numbers prove how hard it is to field a playoff team.

We've only had a decent coach for 4 years coming into this season and he took over a team devoid of talent. He's had to work harder to build something than any of those 13 franchises I mentioned. The fact that the Raiders, Dolphins, and 9ers only have 1 playoff appearance is much more an indictment against them than against us.

 

[Carr Bombed]

In today's league, it's not nearly as easy as you say. If it was that easy, those 13 teams would have a lot more playoff appearances. Those aren't 13 teams of people who are dogging it trying not to win. Winning his hard. Putting together a perennial winner is harder.

Your assertion that it doesn't take long to field an NFL playoff team is obviously wrong. Those numbers prove how hard it is to field a playoff team.

We've only had a decent coach for 4 years coming into this season and he took over a team devoid of talent. He's had to work harder to build something than any of those 13 franchises I mentioned. The fact that the Raiders, Dolphins, and 9ers only have 1 playoff appearance is much more an indictment against them than against us.

Those #s don't prove anything.... LOL

SERIOUSLY....

List the teams who have yet to reach the playoffs since the Texans have been in the league. LIST THEM.

Stop making excuses, people are tired of hearing excuses...and all you're doing is trying to find every excuse that you can. Hell just look at the coaches that took over teams the same year Kubiak did. Some of those coaches took over teams just as devoid of talent that the Texans had.

I know this is probably in bad taste to ask, but are you a A&M fan also....I'm just curious.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Those #s don't prove anything.... LOL

SERIOUSLY....

List the teams who have yet to reach the playoffs since the Texans have been in the league. LIST THEM.

Stop making excuses, people are tired of hearing excuses...and all you're doing is trying to find every excuse that you can. Hell just look at the coaches that took over teams the same year Kubiak did. Some of those coaches took over teams just as devoid of talent that the Texans had.

I know this is probably in bad taste to ask, but are you a A&M fan also....I'm just curious.

No, I'm not an Aggie. Are you a Longhorn fan?

The Bills and Lions have not made it to the playoffs since the Texans have been in the league. But that was never the point. That has nothing to do with anything. The point was about playoff droughts. I said that lots of teams go through them and you said that any team that's trying in the modern NFL can make the playoffs in short period of time. Those numbers show that almost half the league hasn't done what you said. All of those teams have struggled to make the playoffs for extended periods of time in the modern NFL.

And no coach took over a team as devoid of talent as the team Kubiak inherited.

But... I'm not going to argue about this any more. I will try to stay out of the "Kubiak Needs To Go" discussions until there's some new data that provides a reason to actually talk about it.

I'm not going to stir this pot any more.

We've got a game with Dallas coming up and that's all I'm concerned about right now.

 

[ReliantTexan]

Also, it doesn't help that I think that last year was Kubiak's worst coaching job since he's been here.......regardless of the fact that he finished a franchise best 9-7. (which is the main reason why I was never pleased with that record)

I was much more impressed with the 8-8 years despite Schaub missing major time. Last year Schaub had one of the best individual seasons of all time and Kubiak pulls off a 1-5 divisional record which is the main reason why his team was stuck celebrating a non playoff winning season and not a franchise first playoff appearance.

Even you have to admit. That division record looks a whole lot different if any of our backs could gain a damn yard to save their life and hold onto the football, not to mention our Kicker choking his ass off in two of those losses. There's a difference between making excuses and being willing to see that the blame doesn't always fall squarely on the head coach when a team under achieves.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Even you have to admit. That division record looks a whole lot different if any of our backs could gain a damn yard to save their life and hold onto the football, not to mention our Kicker choking his ass off in two of those losses. There's a difference between making excuses and being willing to see that the blame doesn't always fall squarely on the head coach when a team under achieves.

Yes, but our coach kept putting the ball in those backs hands (Chris Brown half back pass was epically stupid)

Also who the hell else would've stuck with a kicker like Kris Brown for a entire season? Seriously, he should've been canned before the season was over.

 

[Dwade]

Yes, but our coach kept putting the ball in those backs hands (Chris Brown half back pass was epically stupid)

Also who the hell else would've stuck with a kicker like Kris Brown for a entire season? Seriously, he should've been canned before the season was over.

Exactly.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

The players weren't celebrating the fact that we were 9-7 and they were happy with just that. They were celebrating because they went into the last game of the season with it being a "MUST WIN GAME" and they won it. Secondly, because they won that game it kept the team's playoff chances and hopes alive.

I would have despised the team if they DIDN'T celebrate after the victory. They won the game, everyone was excited, we could just taste our first playoff appearance, just a few more hours and we would know if we were going or not.

It wasn't until later that day we found out we didn't make the playoffs. The players weren't satisfied with going 9-7, the celebration was because they put themselves in the position to make the playoffs.

Funny how we can rewrite history and bend the facts to try and support an arguement...

(the zipit smiley is in honor of the upcoming game against the cowgirls )

 

[thunderkyss]

A winning season is something to be proud of. A winning season is a step in the right direction.

Especially if it's the first one for your franchise, ever.

And I don't know why Texans' fans are so spoiled but so many of you seem to think that winning in this league is easy and if you don't make the playoffs this year, you're entitled to making it next year.

These are the same people who discounted that we were still basically an expansion team.

I understand after 4 years in the league, you shouldn't be considered an expansion team. But our franchise had been run into the ground for 4 years.

The only way to break the expansion team mindset, is to win more games than you lose.

Then celebrate it.

I totally agree with Carr Bombed, and every body else, if our goal was to get to 9-7, that's just pathetic. But that was not the case.

 

[thunderkyss]

But also understand that with one of the easiest schedules in the league not making the playoffs made me question the way Texans management goes about their business.

Is this about the (K)Chris Brown thing?

Totally understandable.

But that shouldn't take away from 9-7 being a milestone worth celebrating.

If we were the Cardinals, Bucs, Lions, Saints, or Colts, who experienced bad seasons for decades, I completely understand.

If this was the Houston Oilers, and they had never left Houston, & Bud Adams was a peach of a man, I can understand not celebrating 9-7.

But this is like your kid learning to ride a bike. I mean I wouldn't celebrate if the kid is already 12 years old. But this is more like a kid learning to ride at 6 years old, instead of 5. Or like learning to walk at 18 months. It's still worth celebrating.

 

[Blake]

Even you have to admit. That division record looks a whole lot different if any of our backs could gain a damn yard to save their life and hold onto the football, not to mention our Kicker choking his ass off in two of those losses. There's a difference between making excuses and being willing to see that the blame doesn't always fall squarely on the head coach when a team under achieves.

While everyone might agree that the coaches, players and management all share a piece of the pie of a success season or a season of failure, it is the coaches job to put the players in a position to succeed. And I think Kubiak has been given enough time to show this. A fumble, or missed FG isnt the reason a team loses the game. But it is a part of why.

Kubiaks 5th year is his last chance to make the playoffs. No excuses about a missed FG or fumble. Dont want to hear it. Either coach these players up and put them in a better position to win, or see if Colorado State needs a QB coach. (Obviously the CSU QB coach thing was a joke.)

 

[thunderkyss]

LOL!
Finishing 9-7 with a 1-5 divisional record is not something that needs to be praised.

How about finishing the season with a 9-7 record with a 2-4 divisional record? Does that deserve any praise?

 

[thunderkyss]

Start counting that decade when Kubiak came to the team. THEN you don't have an unrealistic expectation. But if you're counting the first 4 years as part of the 10, then yes, you're being unrealistic.

However, even with the debacle that was C&C, we still had a great shot at the playoffs last year and we'll have another great shot this year. Hopefully, there's football the year after that because we'll have another great shot at it.

Don't forget, we haven't played the first game of year 9 yet. The decade isn't over.

 

[Blake]

Yes, but our coach kept putting the ball in those backs hands (Chris Brown half back pass was epically stupid)

Also who the hell else would've stuck with a kicker like Kris Brown for a entire season? Seriously, he should've been canned before the season was over.

What available kicker would we have brought in? Billy Cundiff and his 73.6% carrer FG rating? I dont think you are gonna get much better out of any available kickers at that time.

 

[thunderkyss]

BTW How many yrs of 7-9/9-7 are you up for until you think a change should be made?

The Jets went 9-7 2 years in a row.

If we made it to the play-offs this year, for whatever reason, the Jets were 8-8. Would you be thinking about making a change?

Most people here would say no, "because we made the play-offs, yada, yada, yada"

Then you've got the fans that know what they are talking about.

7-9/9-7 to me, says you don't see a difference, or at least not much difference.

I believe the same thing. 9-7/11-5 same thing.


Even with that 11-5 record getting into the play-offs is still a coin toss. Other things can happen that would knock you out.

For me, the question is did this team play like a 7-9/9-7 team or did they play like a 9-7/11-5 team.

My personal opinion, watching the games I think we played like the 9-7/11-5 team. The stats back that up (IMHO). We missed being 11-5 on a handful of plays.

So for me, it's about how they play. If they played like a 7-9/9-7 team (not able to move the ball, not able to stop anyone, ranked 30th in offense, 32nd in defense), I'd want GK gone now.

But they didn't.

 

[thunderkyss]

Sometimes I think people are so scared of another "Dom Capers" that they're afraid to even fathom the idea of moving on without Kubiak if he fails this season.

In this thread, you're pretty much talking to TPN & me.

Both of us have said if he fails, he's got to go.

 

[DexmanC]

In this thread, you're pretty much talking to TPN & me.

Both of us have said if he fails, he's got to go.

What's there to argue about, then? Go Texans 2010!!


My Signature, in case you can't see it:

RIP EXCUSES (2006-2009)
The First Twelve Games (Where Playoff Teams Are Made):
2007: (5-7) | 2008: (5-7) | 2009: (5-7) | 2010: The Year of Change?

 

[thunderkyss]

What available kicker would we have brought in? Billy Cundiff and his 73.6% carrer FG rating? I dont think you are gonna get much better out of any available kickers at that time.

My personal opinion, is that it didn't matter. He should have been gone.

I also don't think it could have hurt to put Moats in more than Brown, or to get Chris Henry in the game, or even Arian Foster early.

That's Kubiak being scared. Going into the Bye with the problems we had at RB, doesn't make any sense not to sign Larry Johnson.

 

[steelbtexan]

The Jets went 9-7 2 years in a row.

If we made it to the play-offs this year, for whatever reason, the Jets were 8-8. Would you be thinking about making a change?

Most people here would say no, "because we made the play-offs, yada, yada, yada"

Then you've got the fans that know what they are talking about.

7-9/9-7 to me, says you don't see a difference, or at least not much difference.

I believe the same thing. 9-7/11-5 same thing.


Even with that 11-5 record getting into the play-offs is still a coin toss. Other things can happen that would knock you out.

For me, the question is did this team play like a 7-9/9-7 team or did they play like a 9-7/11-5 team.

My personal opinion, watching the games I think we played like the 9-7/11-5 team. The stats back that up (IMHO). We missed being 11-5 on a handful of plays.

So for me, it's about how they play. If they played like a 7-9/9-7 team (not able to move the ball, not able to stop anyone, ranked 30th in offense, 32nd in defense), I'd want GK gone now.

But they didn't.

I'm just glad that you have a criteria for next yr as making the playoffs. Where we have a difference of opinionis I see last yrs 9-7 as closer to a 7-9 team due to the weak schedule they had last year. You see the 9-7 as closer to an 11-5 team.

Time will tell who's right. One thing I would like to say is go Texans. (where hopefully 10-6,11-5 lives)

 

[thunderkyss]

What's there to argue about, then?

spilled milk...


It's what we do.

 

[Rey]

The Jets went 9-7 2 years in a row.

If we made it to the play-offs this year, for whatever reason, the Jets were 8-8. Would you be thinking about making a change?

Most people here would say no, "because we made the play-offs, yada, yada, yada"

Then you've got the fans that know what they are talking about.

7-9/9-7 to me, says you don't see a difference, or at least not much difference.

I believe the same thing. 9-7/11-5 same thing.


Even with that 11-5 record getting into the play-offs is still a coin toss. Other things can happen that would knock you out.

For me, the question is did this team play like a 7-9/9-7 team or did they play like a 9-7/11-5 team.

My personal opinion, watching the games I think we played like the 9-7/11-5 team. The stats back that up (IMHO). We missed being 11-5 on a handful of plays.

So for me, it's about how they play. If they played like a 7-9/9-7 team (not able to move the ball, not able to stop anyone, ranked 30th in offense, 32nd in defense), I'd want GK gone now.

But they didn't.

At this point of Kubiak's tenure, making the play-offs doesn't mean much to me as far as evaluating him as a coach.

Kubiak needs to field a team that can consistently win games that matter. Division games, games that determine seeding, games that determine whether or not we get into the play-offs...And of course teams we are supposed to beat...If all those things happens, then we are a 10-12 win team.

If Kubiak gets into the play-offs this yr. with a 9-7 record and loses in the wild card game then IMO that will reflect poorly on him as a coach.

I wouldn't call for his head, but I don't think that'd be anything to be proud of. If he did the same thing the year after, the I think it'd be time for him to go.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

At this point of Kubiak's tenure, making the play-offs doesn't mean much to me as far as evaluating him as a coach.

Kubiak needs to field a team that can consistently win games that matter. Division games, games that determine seeding, games that determine whether or not we get into the play-offs...And of course teams we are supposed to beat...If all those things happens, then we are a 10-12 win team.

If Kubiak gets into the play-offs this yr. with a 9-7 record and loses in the wild card game then IMO that will reflect poorly on him as a coach.

I wouldn't call for his head, but I don't think that'd be anything to be proud of. If he did the same thing the year after, the I think it'd be time for him to go.

Gawd these threads keep pulling me back in...

But yeah. There are ways that Kubiak could get into the playoffs and lose that would have me calling for his head.

To me, making the playoffs is great and one of the goals but making them doesn't exonerate someone for bad coaching. It's not enough to get there and then look like you don't belong there.

I can think of scenarios where we could win 10-11 games this season and I would be of the opinion that Kubiak should be fired. I can think of scenarios where we could win 8 games and I'd be defending him.

The thing for me is that right now, I think this team is really good and getting better and I think it is premature to pull the plug on the coach. Is he the greatest coach that ever lived? No. He's a good coach and he's put together a really good team. And some years, that's enough to win a Super Bowl.

And even if Kubiak is fired, I think we still keep Smith because I think he's had some simply amazing drafts.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

What available kicker would we have brought in? Billy Cundiff and his 73.6% carrer FG rating? I dont think you are gonna get much better out of any available kickers at that time.

That's what nobody ever answers. I understand the criticism of Kris Brown and it was such a let down but if you're going to cut your kicker midway through the season... somebody is going to have to step in. What Kicker do you bring in?

Also, it wasn't until November when Brown started choking. And it was really 2 games in a row that "cost us the win". The Indy and Tennessee games. So my other question is WHEN do you cut a guy? Is it after the 1st game he costs you (Indy)? Do you give him one more chance and cut him after the Tennessee game? If not, there really wasn't a good chance to cut him.

After those two choke job games, the team went 4-2. Brown went 10 of 15 FG's which is BAD... but his 5 missed FG's were in games that we won. The 2 games we lost, he was 3 for 3 and it wasn't his fault. 2 of the missed FGs were in the last game of the season. So going into the last game you have a K that cost you 2 games in November but after that he was 10/13 with the 3 missed FG's in games we won. The team had gone 3-2 but he was not a reason for either loss. Do you have reason to cut your kicker after this going into the last game of the season?

An easy answer is after the Tennessee game on Nov. 23rd after he cost us two games in a row. The two problems with that is (1) we have to replace him with another Kicker... who do we get!? and (2) that kicker would not have made the outcome of our season any better since Brown had Zero responsibility in the 2 remaining losses.

I hate to sound like a Kris Brown apologist/rationalist because those missed field goals made me sick to my stomach, it's just if I was the Head Coach I couldn't see myself cutting him. Now we're in the offseason with stiff competition against Neil Rackers. I love this and think that's the way to go about it. Whether Brown or Rackers win, I'll be cheering for the winner and hope they have a successful season with us.

 

[steelbtexan]

What available kicker would we have brought in? Billy Cundiff and his 73.6% carrer FG rating? I dont think you are gonna get much better out of any available kickers at that time.

The Fla.St. K Graham Cano (I believe was his name) was signed by the Redskins during the season and had a great 2nd half of the season for the Redskins.

 

[Blake]

The Fla.St. K Graham Cano (I believe was his name) was signed by the Redskins during the season and had a great 2nd half of the season for the Redskins.

I appreciate you at least responding to the question.

Gano was signed in December and kicked 4 FG, and 2 of them were 20 and 25 yards long. I wouldnt call that a "great 2nd half of the season."

I am not saying he was bad. Just that his body of work is too limited to say he was great.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

My Signature, in case you can't see it:

RIP EXCUSES (2006-2009)
The First Twelve Games (Where Playoff Teams Are Made):
2007: (5-7) | 2008: (5-7) | 2009: (5-7) | 2010: The Year of Change?

Pretty interesting stuff. I went back and looked at the records over the first 12 games for each playoff team. All were 7-5 or better with the exception of two teams. The Jets and the Ravens both had a 6-6 record after 12 games... and these were the two AFC teams that received the wild card slots. Texans of course, were 5-7.

I think the Jets got pretty lucky (not to say they're not a good team) because their last two games were against Indy and Cincinnati who both totally layed down b/c they were already in the playoffs. Not really using that as an excuse but actually more to back up your point about the importance of first 12 games. Had they had a 5-7 record like us instead of 6-6, they wouldn't have been in the playoffs.

 

[steelbtexan]

Gawd these threads keep pulling me back in...

But yeah. There are ways that Kubiak could get into the playoffs and lose that would have me calling for his head.

To me, making the playoffs is great and one of the goals but making them doesn't exonerate someone for bad coaching. It's not enough to get there and then look like you don't belong there.

I can think of scenarios where we could win 10-11 games this season and I would be of the opinion that Kubiak should be fired. I can think of scenarios where we could win 8 games and I'd be defending him.

The thing for me is that right now, I think this team is really good and getting better and I think it is premature to pull the plug on the coach. Is he the greatest coach that ever lived? No. He's a good coach and he's put together a really good team. And some years, that's enough to win a Super Bowl.

And even if Kubiak is fired, I think we still keep Smith because I think he's had some simply amazing drafts.

Smiths' 1st draft was the OkOye draft was not good

His 2nd draft, the D.Brown/Slaton was O.K.

His 3rd draft the Cushing/Barwin/Caldwell draft was a great draft

His 4th draft the jury is still out on.

Overall I would say Smith has done an O.K. job of drafting and he appears to be improving. So we agree that Smith probably should keep his job regardless of whether Kubes gets fired or not.

 

[Dwade]

Pretty interesting stuff. I went back and looked at the records over the first 12 games for each playoff team. All were 7-5 or better with the exception of two teams. The Jets and the Ravens both had a 6-6 record after 12 games... and these were the two AFC teams that received the wild card slots. Texans of course, were 5-7.

I think the Jets got pretty lucky (not to say they're not a good team) because their last two games were against Indy and Cincinnati who both totally layed down b/c they were already in the playoffs. Not really using that as an excuse but actually more to back up your point about the importance of first 12 games. Had they had a 5-7 record like us instead of 6-6, they wouldn't have been in the playoffs.

True, the Jets did get lucky. But once they made the playoffs they kicked ass, and got to the AFC Championship.

I don't like the Jets at all, but I have to respect them for getting that far with a rookie QB.

 

[steelbtexan]

I prefer the Buddy Ryan/Singletary type of HC.

To the Shanny/Kubes type of HC.

 

[houstonspartan]

I prefer the Buddy Ryan/Singletary type of HC.

To the Shanny/Kubes type of HC.

Actually, I've always like Shanny. I think he's tougher than we think he is. He's one of those "quiet assasin" types that has that mob boss vibe to him. Kubiak not so much.

 

[HOU-TEX]

I prefer the Buddy Ryan/Singletary type of HC.

To the Shanny/Kubes type of HC.

I assume you mean personality? Which makes no difference for a HC

Buddy Ryan/Singletary = 68-67-1 record with 0 super bowls

Shanahan/Kubiak = 275-179 record with 2 super bowls

But yeah, I can see why you would prefer the Ryan and Singletary type.

 

[Dwade]

I assume you mean personality? Which makes no difference for a HC

Buddy Ryan/Singletary = 68-67-1 record with 0 super bowls

Shanahan/Kubiak = 275-179 record with 2 super bowls

But yeah, I can see why you would prefer the Ryan and Singletary type.

Please don't compare Kubiak to Shanahan...Kubiak hasn't done sh*t

 

[DexmanC]

I assume you mean personality? Which makes no difference for a HC

Buddy Ryan/Singletary = 68-67-1 record with 0 super bowls

Shanahan/Kubiak = 275-179 record with 2 super bowls

But yeah, I can see why you would prefer the Ryan and Singletary type.

The coaches who's names were BOLDED were head coaches
who actually won championships WHILE they were THE HEAD COACH

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

Please don't compare Kubiak to Shanahan...Kubiak hasn't done sh*t

Well the comparisons are there for a reason. Shanahan had the fortune to go to the Broncos who had John Elway. A team that had made the playoffs 11 of the 12 years prior to Shanny becoming HC. That's a vastly different circumstance than what Kubiak stepped into.

pun not originally intended.... but that's just funny

 

[DexmanC]

Well the comparisons are there for a reason. Shanahan had the fortune to go to the Broncos who had John Elway. A team that had made the playoffs 11 of the 12 years prior to Shanny becoming HC. That's a vastly different circumstance than what Kubiak stepped into.

pun not originally intended.... but that's just funny

Poor lil Kubes. Shame on Bob for not giving him a 15-year deal,
so that we REALLY learn what kind of coach we have.

Any more seasons like the last three, and we can dub Kubes
"The Second Coming Of Wayne Fontes"

 

[Rey]

Gawd these threads keep pulling me back in...

But yeah. There are ways that Kubiak could get into the playoffs and lose that would have me calling for his head.

To me, making the playoffs is great and one of the goals but making them doesn't exonerate someone for bad coaching. It's not enough to get there and then look like you don't belong there.

I can think of scenarios where we could win 10-11 games this season and I would be of the opinion that Kubiak should be fired. I can think of scenarios where we could win 8 games and I'd be defending him.

The thing for me is that right now, I think this team is really good and getting better and I think it is premature to pull the plug on the coach. Is he the greatest coach that ever lived? No. He's a good coach and he's put together a really good team. And some years, that's enough to win a Super Bowl.

And even if Kubiak is fired, I think we still keep Smith because I think he's had some simply amazing drafts.

I agree 100% with your post...

The only thing I think I keep thinking about is Marty Schottenheimer(sp?).

Of course at this point I'd love to be complaining about always making the play-offs and not getting outta the first rd.

If there ever comes a time where, even if we're consistently making the play-offs, but I feel that Kubiak has plateaued as a coach, I'd want him out of here. Much like a player in the early stages of their career, I expect to see improvement out of the head coach.

But my point is that Kubes has improved the team every year IMO. Record be damned, I have seen this team improve. Maybe not at warp speed, but nonetheless they have gotten better. As of right now, I'm good with that.