Baldinger: Bob McNair "content with mediocrity"

[thunderkyss]

Anything less than a significant upgrade (a proven winner) gives us a lesser chance to be successful next year IMO. I would have not done the extension and told Kubiak, this year is for all the marbles, it's a contract year for you and this team has to get it done or it's game over.

I agree with most everything you said, except how you define definite upgrade.

The main reason I want to keep Kubiak, is that I believe he has built a Helluva team, in a short amount of time. While Cowher may be an upgrade at instilling a certain attitude into a team...... I don't think his in game decisions are a "definite" upgrade. I also don't think he could have built this team as fast as Kubiak (yes, I said as fast) has, so I would quesion how long this team would be successful in the years past 2010.

I believe in my heart-of-hearts, if Kubiak was first given this team in the state it is now, you would have seen that "instant" success "everyone" is looking for.

I can not say with certainty that any other coach would have been able to do what Kubiak has done if they were given this franchise in 2006. Not Payton, definitely not Cowher, not Parcells, no one. For all you literary challenged, that is not to say that Payton or Parcells couldn't have done better....

But for all the people who say the right way to build a team is primarily through the draft, this is what you get... being "smart" in FA... this is what you get.

 

[thunderkyss]

Another one was coming out flat against the Jets in the opener and getting man-handled. I was so pissed off about that and lay all that blame on the HC.

I just want to point out the Jets man-handled the Pats the same way in week 2. They man-handled the Titans (a much more physical team than ours) the same way week 3.

I understand we had more time to prepare for them. I'm just saying, Bellichick & Fisher get a pass, because they've won, & been in SuperBowls. I get that. But the point is if Rex Ryan befuddled these two great coaches, how much of a stretch is it to give Kubiak a little slack?

I'm pissed about it too, don't get me wrong. But taken in perspective, it's not as bad as we make it out to be. Rookie Coach or whatever.... Rex Ryans ain't no joke.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Sure, but 4-5 years?

This gets back to one of my old points. If you give a guy a few years and all he can get to is a 8-8 or 9-7 record and you ditch him, then you're probably going to take a step back. What that coach does after that, well that's beyond the scope of what I looked at. You might have to swallow a year or two of sub .500 ball like the Rams did with Vermiel. But teams sometimes get into a frenzy of dumping coaches like the Redskins, Lions, the Jets during the 90's, etc., and it's hard to pull yourself up from the pit.

That's why McNair is trying to model himself on the Steelers. It took Cowher a long, long time before he won a SB and he had some years where his teams weren't that good.

Since 1980, most teams have gone 5-6 years without a playoff appearance at least 1 time, some teams for longer. Since we're started as a new franchise, I think that gives us a little more of a grace period. And I think we're making the playoffs next year.

 

[GP]

I just want to point out the Jets man-handled the Pats the same way in week 2. They man-handled the Titans (a much more physical team than ours) the same way week 3.

I understand we had more time to prepare for them. I'm just saying, Bellichick & Fisher get a pass, because they've won, & been in SuperBowls. I get that. But the point is if Rex Ryan befuddled these two great coaches, how much of a stretch is it to give Kubiak a little slack?

I'm pissed about it too, don't get me wrong. But taken in perspective, it's not as bad as we make it out to be. Rookie Coach or whatever.... Rex Ryans ain't no joke.

Uh oh.

You just kinda' swerved into what we have been saying, TK. Did you catch what you just did?

You essentially are saying that Rex Ryan befuddled two great coaches.

You're swerving into our territory, TK. In essence, you just stated that Rex Ryan has something going on. Which is what we have said. So that 9-7 record of his, compared to ours, IS a bit different...right?

And it's different because of the leader. The head honcho. Gameday readiness. Smartness to dissect an opponent's schemes and thwart them when it counts the most.

:oops:

 

[Double Barrel]

So if the Jets lost that Sunday Night game..... Kubiak earned his extension?

I know my arguments are hard to follow .. but try to see what I'm saying.

Had the Jets lost, we would have made the play-offs, in reality, Kubiak wouldn't have done any better or worse than what he did.....

making the play-offs that way is arbitrary... the Jets making the play-offs was arbitrary.

It wasn't you, but someone said Ryans turned things around..... the Jets got into the play-offs, because Baltimore lost Week 16 to an amazing last second catch in the end-zone. But Rex Ryans' 9-7 is better than Kubiak's 9-7 because Ryans got to the play-offs?

I'm not getting it.

Well, Kubiak earned his extension because he got his extension. All that matters in that regard is what the owner thinks about it.

Now perhaps Baldinger would change his tune if we had made the playoffs...

 

[HoustonFrog]

This gets back to one of my old points. If you give a guy a few years and all he can get to is a 8-8 or 9-7 record and you ditch him, then you're probably going to take a step back. What that coach does after that, well that's beyond the scope of what I looked at. You might have to swallow a year or two of sub .500 ball like the Rams did with Vermiel. But teams sometimes get into a frenzy of dumping coaches like the Redskins, Lions, the Jets during the 90's, etc., and it's hard to pull yourself up from the pit.

That's why McNair is trying to model himself on the Steelers. It took Cowher a long, long time before he won a SB and he had some years where his teams weren't that good.

Since 1980, most teams have gone 5-6 years without a playoff appearance at least 1 time, some teams for longer. Since we're started as a new franchise, I think that gives us a little more of a grace period. And I think we're making the playoffs next year.

Took him a long time but he took off running when he got them..he took Knolls last team..7-9 and then went 11-5, 9-7, 12-4, 11-5, 10-6, 11-5..that is alot of goodwill built up. He also drafted like a mother. His only bad stretch was after those first 6 years he had 7-9, 6-10 and then 9-7. He only had one more losing season after that. If Kubes was in the 11-5 range and mistakes from Year 3 were gone, then this subject would be moot. But they aren't, despite what McNair is trying to mdel it after.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Took him a long time but he took off running when he got them..he took Knolls last team..7-9 and then went 11-5, 9-7, 12-4, 11-5, 10-6, 11-5..that is alot of goodwill built up. He also drafted like a mother. His only bad stretch was after those first 6 years he had 7-9, 6-10 and then 9-7. He only had one more losing season after that. If Kubes was in the 11-5 range and mistakes from Year 3 were gone, then this subject would be moot. But they aren't, despite what McNair is trying to mdel it after.

He took off running but he got the reputation of a guy who couldn't win the big one. 14 years and lots of AFC championship games lost in his own house and a lost SB. And he inherited a lot of good players from Noll (Nickerson, Woodson, Lloyd and most of his offense as well).

Kubes will get us there. It takes just a little patience.

 

[Texan_Bill]

He took off running but he got the reputation of a guy who couldn't win the big one. 14 years and lots of AFC championship games lost in his own house and a lost SB. And he inherited a lot of good players from Noll (Nickerson, Woodson, Lloyd and most of his offense as well).
Kubes will get us there. It takes just a little patience.

I've mentioned that very thing ad naseum.

BTW, with regards to stability of teams that some folks have mentioned:

In the Pirates / Steelers 75 year history 3 coaches have coached well over half of their existence:

Parker 8 seasons
Cowher 15 Seasons
Noll 22 seasons

 

[HoustonFrog]

I've mentioned that very thing ad naseum.

BTW, with regards to stability of teams that some folks have mentioned:

In the Pirates / Steelers 75 year history 3 coaches have coached well over half of their existence:

Parker 8 seasons
Cowher 15 Seasons
Noll 22 seasons

That is great with the right coaches.

Cowher might have inherited some guys but those guys got Knoll 7-9 and he turned it to 11-5 and kept going. 6 years isn't an anomaly...he kept drafting well and retooling.

I also think in the day you could afford to keep guys. That is why you had Landry, Knoll, Bud, etc. There was no cap and teams could stay together and gel and you kept your core and kept adding. Now you don't keep guys beyond a certain amount of years and you have to produce.

 

[Texan_Bill]

That is great with the right coaches.

Cowher might have inherited some guys but those guys got Knoll 7-9 and he turned it to 11-5 and kept going. 6 years isn't an anomaly...he kept drafting well and retooling.

I also think in the day you could afford to keep guys. That is why you had Landry, Knoll, Bud, etc. There was no cap and teams could stay together and gel and you kept your core and kept adding. Now you don't keep guys beyond a certain amount of years and you have to produce.

It could be that Noll was burnt out... Who knows? Do you?? If so, I want you picking my lotto numbers.

 

[Texan_Bill]

P.S.... My non linear equations professor once told me, always account for variable change.
~Ben Campbell

 

[HoustonFrog]

It could be that Noll was burnt out... Who knows? Do you?? If so, I want you picking my lotto numbers.

No and my numbers haven't worked either. Just the Texas Two Step for a few hundred grand...not being greedy.

 

[Texan_Bill]

No and my numbers haven't worked either. Just the Texas Two Step for a few hundred grand...not being greedy.

I'd be happy winning $810.85.

Point was we don't know what was going on behind the scenes. Noll was getting way older and the players were, well basically staying young. Maybe they weren't responding to Noll anymore. He was a hard ass. Who's to say?

 

[ChampionTexan]

Uh oh.

You just kinda' swerved into what we have been saying, TK. Did you catch what you just did?

You essentially are saying that Rex Ryan befuddled two great coaches.

You're swerving into our territory, TK. In essence, you just stated that Rex Ryan has something going on. Which is what we have said. So that 9-7 record of his, compared to ours, IS a bit different...right?

And it's different because of the leader. The head honcho. Gameday readiness. Smartness to dissect an opponent's schemes and thwart them when it counts the most.

:oops:

At the beginning of the season, The Jets and their D under Ryan were a bit of an unknown. Leaving Kubiak out of the equation for a bit, I'm not going to give Ryan to much credit for being able to pull out a victory as a relative unknown commodity (at least as a head coach) even if it was against two really good coaches. This is kind of like a first-time QB looking like an All-Pro, until there's some tape of him, and that first D-Coordinator figures out how to shut him down. In games 4-10, they lost 6 of 7 games (including 4 division games in a row), 4 of those games were to teams who finished the year below .500, and the only victory in that stretch was over a 5-11 Raiders team. They then won 3 of the next 4 games, but didn't beat a team that finished the year above .500 in any of those four games. They then played the two infamous games against Indy and Cincy to go 9-7, and win the tiebreaker - getting into the playoffs.

And by the way, this motley rag-tag bunch of knuckleheads that Rex took over and coached to a 9-7 had only been able to go 9-7 the year before he got there, meaning he had the exact same record that got the previous coach fired.

I realize the difference between making the playoffs, and not making the playoffs, but ignoring that, I'm not sure I see a big difference between the two regular season records when looked at in a vacuum.

 

[infantrycak]

Cowher might have inherited some guys but those guys got Knoll 7-9 and he turned it to 11-5 and kept going.

Cowher didn't inherit a great team but he certainly inherited an above average team. Knoll's last year they were running a rookie QB as well. But overall I think Cowher did a good job. But I don't buy into the fire Shottenheimer after 14-2 mentality either.

 

[Texan_Bill]

Noll's final season				Cowher's first season	
[U]Offensive Starters	[/U]				[U]Offensive Starters[/U]
QB	Neil O'Donnell			QB	Neil O'Donnell*
QB	Bubby Brister			RB	Barry Foster*+
RB	Barry Foster			FB	Merril Hoge
FB	Merril Hoge			WR	Jeff Graham
WR	Louis Lipps			WR	Dwight Stone
WR	Dwight Stone			TE	Adrian Cooper
TE	Eric Green			TE	Eric Green
TE	Adrian Cooper			LT	John Jackson
TE	Mike Mularkey			LG	Duval Love
LT	John Jackson			C	Dermontti Dawson*
LG	Tom Ricketts			RG	Carlton Haselrig*
C	Dermontti Dawson		RT	Tunch Ilkin
RG	Carlton Haselrig		RT	Justin Strzelczyk
RT	Tunch Ilkin				[U]Defensive Starters[/U]
	[U]Defensive Starters	[/U]	LDE	Kenny Davidson
LDE	Aaron Jones			NT	Gerald Williams
LDE	Keith Willis			RDE	Donald Evans
NT	Gerald Williams			LOLB	Jerrol Williams
RDE	Donald Evans			LILB	Hardy Nickerson
LOLB	Bryan Hinkle			RILB	David Little
LILB	Hardy Nickerson			ROLB	Greg Lloyd*
RILB	David Little			LCB	Rod Woodson*+
ROLB	Greg Lloyd*			RCB	D.J. Johnson
LCB	D.J. Johnson			SS	Carnell Lake
RCB	Rod Woodson*			FS	Darren Perry
SS	Carnell Lake				
FS	Thomas Everett

* = Pro Bowl
+ = 1st team All-Pro

 

[GP]

At the beginning of the season, The Jets and their D under Ryan were a bit of an unknown. Leaving Kubiak out of the equation for a bit, I'm not going to give Ryan to much credit for being able to pull out a victory as a relative unknown commodity (at least as a head coach) even if it was against two really good coaches. This is kind of like a first-time QB looking like an All-Pro, until there's some tape of him, and that first D-Coordinator figures out how to shut him down. In games 4-10, they lost 6 of 7 games (including 4 division games in a row), 4 of those games were to teams who finished the year below .500, and the only victory in that stretch was over a 5-11 Raiders team. They then won 3 of the next 4 games, but didn't beat a team that finished the year above .500 in any of those four games. They then played the two infamous games against Indy and Cincy to go 9-7, and win the tiebreaker - getting into the playoffs.

And by the way, this motley rag-tag bunch of knuckleheads that Rex took over and coached to a 9-7 had only been able to go 9-7 the year before he got there, meaning he had the exact same record that got the previous coach fired.

I realize the difference between making the playoffs, and not making the playoffs, but ignoring that, I'm not sure I see a big difference between the two regular season records when looked at in a vacuum.

My opinion on the Mangini vs. Ryan seasons of 9-7:

Mangini is a FREAK. He's scary. That's why they didn't care that he had a 9-7 record. Out of all the Patriots ex-assistants and coordinators who later became coaches after those Super Bowl wins, Mangini is by far the weirdest and most unpredictable cat out of the bunch. Weiss isn't too far behind, and McDaniels is gaining ground. Crennel? He's the loveable fuzzball that doesn't fit in with the rest of the crew. He's the wheel man.

So I think Mangini got himself fired due to his freakness. And his freakness continued on with the things going down in Cleveland. He might be the only head coach who tries to get more cute than Kubiak.

Rex Ryan found a way to will himself and his rookie QB into position for a playoff berth. When he was reciting his Christmas Wish List during that one presser, I was like "LOL. You are genius. You're essentially telling the Colts and the Bengals that they can protect their star players AND do a good charitable work by laying down for the Jets." Nicely done, Rex.

He's a chip off the old block.

 

[Joe Texan]

Balsucker can stuff a sock in it. I will not watch him again, And watch when we win in Dallas in February, I hope Marc Vanderqueer and J LO get him back and let me have a word with his ass. I shows that the 610 bunch has no balls when it comes to standing up for the Texans.

 

[thunderkyss]

Uh oh.

You just kinda' swerved into what we have been saying, TK. Did you catch what you just did?

You essentially are saying that Rex Ryan befuddled two great coaches.

You're swerving into our territory, TK. In essence, you just stated that Rex Ryan has something going on. Which is what we have said. So that 9-7 record of his, compared to ours, IS a bit different...right?

And it's different because of the leader. The head honcho. Gameday readiness. Smartness to dissect an opponent's schemes and thwart them when it counts the most.

:oops:

If we can agree that Ryans is a good coach.... then we can say that 9-7 isn't a bad thing. They (the Jets) are actually 8-8 but they were given a game. At least 1. Even then, if you think that team is better than they were in 2008 (9-7), then you can see my side of the argument concerning the Texans, despite going 8-8, 8-8, 9-7.

I never said that it's going to take 4 years to be successful if we get a new coach. I think we'll win 10+ games regardless who our coach is in 2010. My position is that we'll win 10+ games in 2011, 2012, 2013, etc... with Kubiak. Regardless what our schedule is, kinda like the Colts.

Not like Sparano ( a good coach no doubt), or Harbaugh, or Smith, or even Payton. Or Ryans? Do you really think the Jets will win more than 9 games next year? I don't.

 

[thunderkyss]

If Kubes was in the 11-5 range and mistakes from Year 3 were gone, then this subject would be moot. But they aren't, despite what McNair is trying to mdel it after.

True...

True...

I understand some thinking our standards are low, because we keep refering to the 2-14 team that Kubiak took over.... but it is what it is.

I agree whole heartedly, that the Texans should have easily won 10 games, & I'm very, very disappointed that we didn't.

I can see(understand) the POV, that it was Kubiak's fault that we lost those 7 games. How much credit does he get for losing 6 of those by 7 points or less? Which is an improvement over what where we were.

Again, I'm still upset, and disappointed we didn't win just one of those games. I'm not trying to make that look like success.

To me, that looks like progress.... just like the progress we've seen the last three years.

 

[GP]

If we can agree that Ryans is a good coach.... then we can say that 9-7 isn't a bad thing. They (the Jets) are actually 8-8 but they were given a game. At least 1. Even then, if you think that team is better than they were in 2008 (9-7), then you can see my side of the argument concerning the Texans, despite going 8-8, 8-8, 9-7.

I never said that it's going to take 4 years to be successful if we get a new coach. I think we'll win 10+ games regardless who our coach is in 2010. My position is that we'll win 10+ games in 2011, 2012, 2013, etc... with Kubiak. Regardless what our schedule is, kinda like the Colts.

Not like Sparano ( a good coach no doubt), or Harbaugh, or Smith, or even Payton. Or Ryans? Do you really think the Jets will win more than 9 games next year? I don't.

If you had asked me, last off-season, who had the better chance to make the playoffs--Jets or Texans--I would have said Texans.

So I can't sit here and say that the Jets CAN'T win more than 9 games in 2010. They won 9, this year, and made it to the playoffs. They weren't supposed to get into the playoffs...except they didn't buy into that bit of conventional wisdom, did they?

Your statement(s) and my commentary within those statements: We're going to win 10+ games next year regardless who our coach is. But the Jets, [who made the playoffs and went to the AFC Championship Game this year], won't win 9+ games. And we're going to win 10+ games in 2011, 2012 and 2013, and maybe beyond [did we switch divisions and I didn't hear about it?].

 

[thunderkyss]

Rex Ryan found a way to will himself and his rookie QB into position for a playoff berth.

He's a chip off the old block.

Found a way to will himself to a win?

He was in the same position as Kubiak after week 15 he was out of the play-offs same as us. He could will himself to two wins, and still miss the play-offs.

He got into the play-offs, because the Ravens lost a heartbreaker.

Unless you're saying he willed Joe Flacco to a 4th Qtr fumble...

his will had little if anything to do with getting the Jets to the play-offs.

 

[thunderkyss]

Your statement(s) and my commentary within those statements: We're going to win 10+ games next year regardless who our coach is. But the Jets, [who made the playoffs and went to the AFC Championship Game this year], won't win 9+ games. And we're going to win 10+ games in 2011, 2012 and 2013, and maybe beyond [did we switch divisions and I didn't hear about it?].

I don't want to keep tearing at the Jets...... but if you think that is a better team than hours.... this conversation isn't going anywhere anyway.

& not only do I think our team is better, I think our team is much, much better.... not even close better.

Remember we are in this particular discussion because you & I both agree their 9-7 is different than our 9-7.

 

[Texan_Bill]

Rex Ryan found a way to will himself and his rookie QB into position for a playoff berth.

He's a chip off the old block.

It's called the NFL's best rushing attack.


Then the Jets should fire him now, because Buddy never won anything as a head coach.

 

[GuerillaBlack]

True...

True...

I understand some thinking our standards are low, because we keep refering to the 2-14 team that Kubiak took over.... but it is what it is.

I agree whole heartedly, that the Texans should have easily won 10 games, & I'm very, very disappointed that we didn't.

I can see(understand) the POV, that it was Kubiak's fault that we lost those 7 games. How much credit does he get for losing 6 of those by 7 points or less? Which is an improvement over what where we were.

Again, I'm still upset, and disappointed we didn't win just one of those games. I'm not trying to make that look like success.

To me, that looks like progress.... just like the progress we've seen the last three years.

But some of those losses would not have happened if Kubiak had cut both Browns. All we had to do was win one game out of the four game divisional stretch. I want Kubiak to succeed and take this team to the promise land, but I don't have much faith in him.

 

[Texan_Bill]

But some of those losses would not have happened if Kubiak had cut both Browns. All we had to do was win one game out of the four game divisional stretch. I want Kubiak to succeed and take this team to the promise land, but I don't have much faith in him.

Not using injury as an excuse but it should be noted that those 4 consecutive games were on the heels of losing OD..

I'm not sayin, I'm just sayin'.

 

[dalemurphy]

But some of those losses would not have happened if Kubiak had cut both Browns. All we had to do was win one game out of the four game divisional stretch. I want Kubiak to succeed and take this team to the promise land, but I don't have much faith in him.

I've never seen an NFL team play games without a placekicker. Not sure how that would've helped matters.

 

[Texan_Bill]

I've never seen an NFL team play games without a placekicker. Not sure how that would've helped matters.

I heard that if K. Brown was cut, Al Del Greco was available..

 

[thunderkyss]

But some of those losses would not have happened if Kubiak had cut both Browns. All we had to do was win one game out of the four game divisional stretch. I want Kubiak to succeed and take this team to the promise land, but I don't have much faith in him.

6 in one hand, half a dozen in the other.

I don't want to get into the fire Kris Brown thing. We did that. bottom line, the only thing you are guaranteeing is that Kris Brown wouldn't be the one trotting out there. There is no guarantee the outcome of the games would have been different.

Chris Brown... All I can say, Arian Foster must look like crap in practice.

 

[Wolf]

I heard that if K. Brown was cut, tony zendejas was available..

fixed it for ya

 

[ChampionTexan]

I heard that if K. Brown was cut, Al Del Greco was available..

Even Al thinks that's a really bad idea...

...but maybe there's an Al out there who could answer our RB questions:

 

[HoustonFrog]

I don't want to keep tearing at the Jets...... but if you think that is a better team than hours.... this conversation isn't going anywhere anyway.

& not only do I think our team is better, I think our team is much, much better.... not even close better.

Remember we are in this particular discussion because you & I both agree their 9-7 is different than our 9-7.

This is where it is hard to understand people. Thunder...not only do the Jets have scoreboard...a complete ass kicking...but then they made a run late...9-7 or not. Your comments make no sense when head to head comes into play.

 

[Texan_Bill]

Even Al thinks that's a really bad idea...

...but maybe there's an Al out there who could answer our RB questions:

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice!!! I tried to rep you, but the ol' must spread rep thing came into play.

 

[thunderkyss]

This is where it is hard to understand people. Thunder...not only do the Jets have scoreboard...a complete ass kicking...but then they made a run late...9-7 or not. Your comments make no sense when head to head comes into play.

I know if all you're looking at is the scoreboard, it's hard to understand what I'm saying.

head to head wouldn't have been an issue if the Colts played the whole game week 15... I know it's not a knock on the Jets because the Colts laid down.

The Colts laid down..... the Bengals laid down....

but the Jets went on a run??

When the Colts decided to play... the same team we can't beat.... Peyton figured out that defense in one QTR & hung 30 points on them, & their offense couldn't move keep up.

It's been years since we looked that bad against the Colts.

 

[Hervoyel]

 

[steelbtexan]

Bottom line is Baldy King and Steel B find 6-10,8-8,8-8,9-7 as mediocore.

McNair feels differently and that's all that counts.

Dale: McNair counts on fans like you and TK.

The board wouldn't be the same without you.

Time will tell who's right but I value professionals like Baldy and King's opinion. Hopefully the Soapers are wrong about McNair and Kubes.

Meanwhile McNair will keep on running to the bank with everybodies $. It doesn't matter which side is right or wrong. That's the humorous thing about this arguement.

 

[Mailman]

Where in the world is Ian Howfield when you need him?

 

[Thorn]

must..spread...rep....


Exactly Herv. Exactly.

 

[thunderkyss]

Bottom line is Baldy King and Steel B find 6-10,8-8,8-8,9-7 as mediocore.

McNair feels differently and that's all that counts.

The extension is more about next year than this year.

McNair probably thinks that is mediocre as well. I think that's mediocre. Neither McNair or I feel we will be 9-7 or worse next year. We see progress being made. We feel we are behind schedule, & next year, we'll begin our dominance of the AFC South.

Dale: McNair counts on fans like you and TK.

Glad to be there for him. I'm counting on owners like McNair

The board wouldn't be the same without you.

Time will tell who's right but I value professionals like Baldy and King's opinion. Hopefully the Soapers are wrong about McNair and Kubes.

I never said anything to devalue the opinion of Baldinger, King, or you... I do hope you're wrong. Well, actually I know you're wrong. But I still value your opinion.

Meanwhile McNair will keep on running to the bank with everybodies $. It doesn't matter which side is right or wrong. That's the humorous thing about this arguement.

True... but until Reliant stops selling out for Texans' games, I don't expect McNair to do any different. During a time of Recession, I think it would have been a nice gesture by McNair to give us a reprieve.. I would like for the beer cups to get bigger, & cheaper.... but I doubt that's going to happen again.

But yes, bottom line. I like the progress I've seen since 2006. I would like to see that progress continue for another 10 years. I think Gary Kubiak is the most logical choice going forward.

Had he been fired, and Chan Gailey brought in here, I would have been upset, I would expect a 10 win season in 2010, & I would have been preparing my excuses in the event we fell short of that expectation.

We would still be having this discussion.

 

[bckey]

Wow. I wish these threads with all the same old arguments about Kubiak and McNair would die out. This could turn out to be a very long offseason at this rate.

 

[Grams]

Wow. I wish these threads with all the same old arguments about Kubiak and McNair would die out. This could turn out to be a very long offseason at this rate.

Amen.

 

[thunderkyss]

Wow. I wish these threads with all the same old arguments about Kubiak and McNair would die out. This could turn out to be a very long offseason at this rate.

Plenty of other threads to occupy your time. I understand, soon every thread will turn into this argument... but that's not the case at the moment.

The thread title pretty much said what this one was about.

You're not interested where this thread is going. That's fine.

My friends and I still feel there is value re-hashing these tired arguments. Jaded, though we may be.... we feel like we are making progress.

For me anyway, it's not about trying to change anyone's mind. It's more about trying to understand where they are coming from. On that, I think I am gaining.

 

[DexmanC]

Interesting how 610 pulled that interview from its vault.

Homer radio at its finest.

 

[Vinny]

Teams get a reputation from what they do on the field. Our reputation is a team that is mediocre and cannot win a meaningful game. We go into this season "playoffs or bust"...then we extend the coach after his team just totally craters for an entire month when it's time to make a run for the playoffs. Is that really win or bust? Based on how happy everyone in the org was after beating the little sisters of the poor to close out the season strong, I'd say it isn't all that hard for me to see that NFL pundits don't see the Texans with battle rose colored glasses. Is it really all that hard for the fans to see how the various teams around the NFL get their National perceptions?

What is the sad part is that people think that this team should be "respected" because we have some kind of awesome offense between the 20's and have a cool logo. This team won't get any more National love until they win more games and make the playoffs a time or two.

 

[infantrycak]

Teams get a reputation from what they do on the field. Our reputation is a team that is mediocre and cannot win a meaningful game. We go into this season "playoffs or bust"...then we extend the coach after his team just totally craters for an entire month when it's time to make a run for the playoffs. Is that really win or bust? Based on how happy everyone in the org was after beating the little sisters of the poor to close out the season strong, I'd say it isn't all that hard for me to see that NFL pundits don't see the Texans with battle rose colored glasses. Is it really all that hard for the fans to see how the various teams around the NFL get their National perceptions?

What is the sad part is that people think that this team should be "respected" because we have some kind of awesome offense between the 20's and have a cool logo. This team won't get any more National love until they win more games and make the playoffs a time or two.

I don't think there is a team out there that is "better" than the Texans thinking they can mail the game in now because the Texans "can't win a meaningful game. You really think Peyton is prepping any less hard for the Texans because we have been their ***** on the record? I agree on the respect part totally. People need to just shut up about that. I just don't agree that reputation as it applies to other teams means they are discounting the Texans at this point.

Not directed to you, but what did I predict would be the pivotal 4 week stretch on the season?

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Teams get a reputation from what they do on the field. Our reputation is a team that is mediocre and cannot win a meaningful game. We go into this season "playoffs or bust"...then we extend the coach after his team just totally craters for an entire month when it's time to make a run for the playoffs. Is that really win or bust? Based on how happy everyone in the org was after beating the little sisters of the poor to close out the season strong, I'd say it isn't all that hard for me to see that NFL pundits don't see the Texans with battle rose colored glasses. Is it really all that hard for the fans to see how the various teams around the NFL get their National perceptions?

What is the sad part is that people think that this team should be "respected" because we have some kind of awesome offense between the 20's and have a cool logo. This team won't get any more National love until they win more games and make the playoffs a time or two.

We have been turning into a society where we are told that we and our kids should be praised in face of "failure"............solely based on so-called "effort," even if not real. It's a simple case of reward based on what I intended to do, rather than what I have done. It hasn't worked in our education system, it doesn't work in the business model. It has long been said that "NFL" stands for Not For Long.........except, of course, you subscribe to the "New Order" and you are part of the Texans organization.

 

[Vinny]

Teams get a reputation from what they do on the field. Our reputation is a team that is mediocre and cannot win a meaningful game. We go into this season "playoffs or bust"...then we extend the coach after his team just totally craters for an entire month when it's time to make a run for the playoffs. Is that really win or bust? Based on how happy everyone in the org was after beating the little sisters of the poor to close out the season strong, I'd say it isn't all that hard for me to see that NFL pundits don't see the Texans with battle rose colored glasses. Is it really all that hard for the fans to see how the various teams around the NFL get their National perceptions?

What is the sad part is that people think that this team should be "respected" because we have some kind of awesome offense between the 20's and have a cool logo. This team won't get any more National love until they win more games and make the playoffs a time or two.

I don't think there is a team out there that is "better" than the Texans thinking they can mail the game in now because the Texans "can't win a meaningful game. You really think Peyton is prepping any less hard for the Texans because we have been their ***** on the record? I agree on the respect part totally. People need to just shut up about that. I just don't agree that reputation as it applies to other teams means they are discounting the Texans at this point.

Not directed to you, but what did I predict would be the pivotal 4 week stretch on the season?

I'm talking about National perception. What makes you or any of the homers here think that the Texans deserve to be thought of as one of the leagues top franchises when they can't win a game of any importance? EVER? It's been a friggin' decade and Kubiak hasn't shown the ability to win important games outside of games at the end of the year once we were pretty much eliminated (He's been the head coach for 64 games right?).

One more thing...Bob McNair needs to stop coming out publicly and saying anything about 'playoffs or bust'. It just sounds hollow coming from him. He was really pleased last season with 8-8 and he is really pleased with 9-7 this year. Good for him, but spare me with the playoffs or bust mantra because it's disingenuous blather.

 

[bckey]

Teams get a reputation from what they do on the field. Our reputation is a team that is mediocre and cannot win a meaningful game. We go into this season "playoffs or bust"...then we extend the coach after his team just totally craters for an entire month when it's time to make a run for the playoffs. Is that really win or bust? Based on how happy everyone in the org was after beating the little sisters of the poor to close out the season strong, I'd say it isn't all that hard for me to see that NFL pundits don't see the Texans with battle rose colored glasses. Is it really all that hard for the fans to see how the various teams around the NFL get their National perceptions?

What is the sad part is that people think that this team should be "respected" because we have some kind of awesome offense between the 20's and have a cool logo. This team won't get any more National love until they win more games and make the playoffs a time or two.

Excellent post Vinny. Pretty much sums up my thoughts on this topic.

 

[Wolf]

If you liked Brian Baldinger's comments, you're going to love this.

One day after Baldinger called out Texans owner Bob McNair on the Vandermeer and Lopez morning show on Houston’s SportsRadio610, Sports Illustrated senior NFL writer Peter King piled on a heavy dose of reality that Texans fans are sure to appreciate.

I already know what you're thinking. A natural reaction by some Texans fans will be “Peter King is a [insert derogatory name here].”

But love him or hate him, this is a guy with a national audience, far greater than Baldinger, and this is what he's thinking (now). And on this one – it's hard to disagree with most of what he's saying.

This isn't like the time Michael Lombardi said Matt ‘Schwab’ isn’t a leader. Sometimes (sometimes)it’s okay to listen to these guys. And sometimes the truth hurts.

The last two days certainly turned into a “if you don’t want to hear the answer, don’t ask the question” experience for Vandermeer.

A transcript of the Texans portion of the interview follows. If you want to listen to the interview, click here, (the part about the Texans is near the end) or check out SportsRadio610’s podcast archive from Miami. They’ve done a nice job archiving interviews from the last several days.

Vandermeer may have prompted King’s response a bit by setting it up with comments on the several close losses by the Texans in 2009. Here’s how it went:

http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2010m2d5-Peter-Kings-turn-to-pile-on-Texans

 

[Vinny]

Interesting how 610 pulled that interview from its vault.

Homer radio at its finest.

it's still up

http://itmpodcasttrack.com/podcast_.../podcast.sportsradio610.com/kilt2/2202067.mp3