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"All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????

Who is to say he'll be here for week one?
Why would Dunta miss a $600K game check?

The most relevant question is: Would any other team in the league pay Dunta the money that he'd be receiving if he signed the Texans' franchise tender?
The relevant question is, did Dunta have a better deal in his back pocket than the Texans offered? The answer is very likely, yes. Which is why Robinson was so upset at Smith for tagging him.
 
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Amazing how Dunta has gone from fan favorite to Matt Stevens because he doesn't drink the FO koolaid. Lol to the people saying he sucks / not very good / would only start for the Texans / cut him loose etc. Yeah I'd like to see him in camp too but I'm not gonna throw the guy under the bus like many here are so eager to do.
 
Has in the PAST is the operative word. I doubt that still holds true. I think he is clearly showing what his attitude is and he WILL very likely carry it over to the season if we give him a chance by over paying for a rather poor CB. I don't want him given ANY sort of chance to screw up what is being built and I have a very strong hunch that is exactly what he would try to do.


I don't see why a bad attitude is a given. The players are going to respect him as much they did before, and his personality is that of a guy who gives his all. That is what the majority of the board admired him for when he rushed back from injury too. From players I've talked to, they don't really care about holdouts, unless it is the exceptional cases like T.O. To some, I understand this makes the players complicit in Dunta's heinous wrong-doing, but it is just the way it is. It doesn't really bother them.

The coaches aren't going to give a lot of thought to the holdout either. They understand the NFL, and I haven't seen any evidence that they are the vindictive coaches of the Capers era that did hold grudges. I think they value putting what they see as the best team on the field over politics for the most part. They might surprise me though.

In my view, the only people who are truly angered by Dunta are the fans that feel betrayed by his lack of loyalty. They turned on him faster than they could say, "I always knew he sucked". Once it became an emotional issue, it entered an unrecoverable downward spiral.
 
Amazing how Dunta has gone from fan favorite to Matt Stevens because he doesn't drink the FO koolaid. Lol to the people saying he sucks / not very good / would only start for the Texans / cut him loose etc. Yeah I'd like to see him in camp too but I'm not gonna throw the guy under the bus like many here are so eager to do.

You obviously aren't taking this as a personal slap in the face.
 
Amazing how Dunta has gone from fan favorite to Matt Stevens because he doesn't drink the FO koolaid. Lol to the people saying he sucks / not very good / would only start for the Texans / cut him loose etc. Yeah I'd like to see him in camp too but I'm not gonna throw the guy under the bus like many here are so eager to do.
I like him on the field and he isn't there it is only going to get worse. What the hell good is he?
 
The relevant question is, did Dunta have a better deal in his back pocket than the Texans offered? The answer is very likely, yes. Which is why Robinson was so upset at Smith for tagging him.

Probably true, but it's still wrong to throw a fit over being franchised. He can only help himself by working with the new DB coach before the season starts.
 
You obviously aren't taking this as a personal slap in the face.

Lol, I've been slapped in the face before by an ex, didn't like it one bit but then I realized what I said that triggered the slap was quite stupid.

</metaphor>

gary said:
I like him on the field and he isn't there it is only going to get worse. What the hell good is he?

Like I said I'd like to have him in camp but don't pretend that this is all Dunta's doing. The FO had a hand in it as well so redirect some of your hate towards them if you're truly angered by his absence in training camp.
 
Does anybody think the reason he wont come to camp is because he doesn't want to live in Houston any more after his house was robbed and tied up at gun point?

If he does stay he wants to be paid top dollar.

I cant say that I blame him.
 
And explain to me why Robinson should come in prior to Week 1? There is absolutely no good reason, on his part, to join the team until the opening roster must be set.

Then explain to me why anyone should come prior to Week 1? There is absolutely no good reason, on anyone's part, to join the team until the opening roster must be set.

Why should Schaub come in? Why should Mario come in? Or A.J.? Or Demeco?

Jeeeez. :rolleyes:
 
Does anybody think the reason he wont come to camp is because he doesn't want to live in Houston any more after his house was robbed and tied up at gun point?

If he does stay he wants to be paid top dollar.

I cant say that I blame him.

I've thought this but if this were true wouldn't he have requested a trade by now? I mean there's players like Boldin and B-Marshall who have requested trades because of contract holdouts and they didn't even have their houses broken into like Dunta. It's about the money.

Another thing is, we don't know specifically what the deal the Texans offered. Eric Winston spoke about this, he said contracts can look good a la guaranteed money etc to the public but if you look at the nitty gritty and the details of the contract it may not benefit the player so much such as backloaded money or injury insurance issues and such.
 
Does anybody think the reason he wont come to camp is because he doesn't want to live in Houston any more after his house was robbed and tied up at gun point?

I've had some bad experiences in other cities (Cinci) but nothing to compare to what he went through. I will say this though, I stayed in that God forsaken city to pay my bills until I found something better back here in H-Town. If I could have made $10 million dollars in that one freaking year I'd have moved my whole damn family to Hawaii and gutted it out alone in hell to make TEN FREAKING MILLION DOLLARS. I'm sorry, this just doesn't hold any water with me. Bye bye done-tay. I hear there's a dude about four hours north that might break the bank for ya.
 
Then explain to me why anyone should come prior to Week 1? There is absolutely no good reason, on anyone's part, to join the team until the opening roster must be set.

Why should Schaub come in? Why should Mario come in? Or A.J.? Or Demeco?

Jeeeez. :rolleyes:

B/C Schaub, Mario, AJ, and Meco have signed and are under contract.

DRob is not under contract.
 
If I'm the Texans GM I would give Dunta a deadline, if he doesn't sign it by that date I would drop the franchise tag.

I can understand this route, and it might very well be the best thing for all the parties involved, except Dunta.

The F.O. will get his but in camp, and have him ready to play game 1. We'd have made a good faith effort, by throwing away $10 million. But Dunta is a Texan, and maybe he deserves a final payday. David Car got one. Dominick Davis/Williams got one.

Fans can also feel good, knowing our F.O. tried to do the right thing.

Dunta.... If you watched him when he came back, he really struggled. He couldn't fly to the ball the way he used to. He would lung at players in the backfield, and miss.... I never seen that before, from him. Not even a shoe string.

I think Dunta knows he doesn't have it anymore. I don't think he's going to sign his tender. I think he's going to hold out, and try to get the team to make him a better offer when the season starts.

But if that were true, he'd have jumped at the Texans original offer.
 
I've had some bad experiences in other cities (Cinci) but nothing to compare to what he went through. I will say this though, I stayed in that God forsaken city to pay my bills until I found something better back here in H-Town. If I could have made $10 million dollars in that one freaking year I'd have moved my whole damn family to Hawaii and gutted it out alone in hell to make TEN FREAKING MILLION DOLLARS. I'm sorry, this just doesn't hold any water with me. Bye bye done-tay. I hear there's a dude about four hours north that might break the bank for ya.
But yet it's all the fault o the FO.
 
Yeah

It's all about the money and because of this there will be no Dunta regular season holdout.
 
You know, I've been thinking about why a player would turn down $10 million for one year.

Maybe he's afraid he'll get hurt and will be done once the $10 million is paid out. And maybe Dunta is in debt and needs more than $10 million. Fast.

I don't get the impression any of the players likes the franchise tag. The guarantee for that year is nice, but if there is a career ending injury that's it.

If the Texans were to go ahead a remove the tag and he signed with someone else, would they receive a compensatory pick next year for that? I know those picks depend on the value of the players you lose versus sign as free agents, but since TCs have started I didn't know if those rules were still in effect.
 
Then explain to me why anyone should come prior to Week 1? There is absolutely no good reason, on anyone's part, to join the team until the opening roster must be set.

Why should Schaub come in? Why should Mario come in? Or A.J.? Or Demeco?

Jeeeez. :rolleyes:

I'm fairly certain they would all be fined for not coming since they are under contract.
 
I've had some bad experiences in other cities (Cinci) but nothing to compare to what he went through. I will say this though, I stayed in that God forsaken city to pay my bills until I found something better back here in H-Town. If I could have made $10 million dollars in that one freaking year I'd have moved my whole damn family to Hawaii and gutted it out alone in hell to make TEN FREAKING MILLION DOLLARS. I'm sorry, this just doesn't hold any water with me. Bye bye done-tay. I hear there's a dude about four hours north that might break the bank for ya.

Oh good lord. Dunta didn't franchise himself and he isn't refusing $10 million to make a statement. He'll be here come game time. He didn't take the franchise tag very well but he also said he'd be in camp if the FO agreed not to do it again and they didn't, so surprise surprise he isn't here. But hey, let's crucify him from atop Rick Smith's jock strap and pretend a couple journeymen CB's will make Dunta a distant memory with their "untapped" awesomeness.
 
Oh good lord. Dunta didn't franchise himself and he isn't refusing $10 million to make a statement. He'll be here come game time. He didn't take the franchise tag very well but he also said he'd be in camp if the FO agreed not to do it again and they didn't, so surprise surprise he isn't here. But hey, let's crucify him from atop Rick Smith's jock strap and pretend a couple journeymen CB's will make Dunta a distant memory with their "untapped" awesomeness.

Oh good Lord. Let's crucify Rick Smith for not doing what Casserly would have done. We pissed and moaned for years about Casserly's brain dead deals. Now that we have a non-retarded GM, he gets the blame because he won't break the freaking bank to retain a mediocre CB coming off of an injury? Hello Tony Boselli anyone?
 
Oh good lord. Dunta didn't franchise himself and he isn't refusing $10 million to make a statement. He'll be here come game time. He didn't take the franchise tag very well but he also said he'd be in camp if the FO agreed not to do it again and they didn't, so surprise surprise he isn't here. But hey, let's crucify him from atop Rick Smith's jock strap and pretend a couple journeymen CB's will make Dunta a distant memory with their "untapped" awesomeness.

I get that, but I was responding to the notion he's doing this because he's scared to live in Houston. BTW, who are you to say he'll be here for game time? If I remember correctly McClain reported he could "even miss the first game". Maybe I shouldn't have put that in quotes, but that's what I recall. So what game time are you referring to? The second game of the season?
 
I don't see why a bad attitude is a given. The players are going to respect him as much they did before, and his personality is that of a guy who gives his all. That is what the majority of the board admired him for when he rushed back from injury too. From players I've talked to, they don't really care about holdouts, unless it is the exceptional cases like T.O. To some, I understand this makes the players complicit in Dunta's heinous wrong-doing, but it is just the way it is. It doesn't really bother them.

The coaches aren't going to give a lot of thought to the holdout either. They understand the NFL, and I haven't seen any evidence that they are the vindictive coaches of the Capers era that did hold grudges. I think they value putting what they see as the best team on the field over politics for the most part. They might surprise me though.

In my view, the only people who are truly angered by Dunta are the fans that feel betrayed by his lack of loyalty. They turned on him faster than they could say, "I always knew he sucked". Once it became an emotional issue, it entered an unrecoverable downward spiral.

For me, it's not like he instantly became sucky because of his holdout attitude. His instincts, his tenacity, and his veteran mindset are an asset to the team.

It's an issue of how much a guy means to the team considering his overall attitude toward the team. And the contractual aspect of a player's NFL life is just as much an indication of his loyalty to the team, IMO, as any other action he could produce: Such as going over and high-fiving a teammate after a great play was made, or being at a charity to help benefit those in need while also being there for autographs with fans.

I think there's a line that a player crosses, when he actually becomes less valuable to a team when he acts like this. It begins to be, in all honesty, a distraction because there's one guy doing one thing and the rest of the team going on with life as normal. The player has put himself outside the circle of the team and thereby out on his own as a lone ranger.

And from THIS fan's viewpoint, it's reached a tipping point. I've been in an office environment where John Doe was making life absolutely miserable for everybody else. He grumbled about everything, he stopped doing his job and therefore others had to cover for him, and one day he was fired. It's funny how much more enjoyable going to work became when the people poisoner was cut loose.

Sometimes, a guy just needs to move on for the sake of all involved. And if Dunta can make it somewhere else, then that's fine by me. I think he's wrong, but oh well. That's his call.

Had he not done it this way, runner, I bet there's not many fans here who would root for the guy to not make the team nor to be a starter. Had all of this not happened, I think we'd all be blind to any shortcomings he had on the field because Dunta (for me, at least) was sort of a Texans icon.

I had really hoped that he'd finish out here in Houston, and that we'd always be talking about Dunta Robinson. He'd one day have #23 retired. We'd spot him on the sidelines yucking it up with new Texans players 10 years from now, as maybe just a former player making a guest appearance or maybe even as a secondary coach or assistant. That was my hope. And I can't be mad at him for that. It's HIS life and HIS career, and I have to be OK with not getting what I wanted.

I'm just disappointed that it didn't work out better. Because the dude has been nails for this team since he came here. It wasn't supposed to end like this. Not with this guy.
 
But it is going to end that way after this season.

Dunta let greed and arrogance rule his career and now his career will suffer because of it.

There will be no Dunta Robinson days at Reliant.

No FO-Coaching jobs or nobody setting him up in business after his playing career is done.

Dunta I hope it was worth it for you to trash your rep in H-Town.
 
But it is going to end that way after this season.

Dunta let greed and arrogance rule his career and now his career will suffer because of it.

There will be no Dunta Robinson days at Reliant.

No FO-Coaching jobs or nobody setting him up in business after his playing career is done.

Dunta I hope it was worth it for you to trash your rep in H-Town.

I don't think he will be fully banished or tarnished.

It just think it won't be as good as it could have been. In fact, it'll be far from it. Probably, over time, the sting (for all involved) will subside. Time, and tequila, heal all wounds.
 
There is absolutely no good reason, on his part, to join the team until the opening roster must be set.
REALLY? He was at 100% at the end of last year and knows the new defense backwards / forwards? There's plenty of good reason, but I doubt he'll deviate from his (announced) chosen path anytime soon.

Who is to say he'll be here for week one?
That's my personal cutoff date for support of his financial choices. I pray he'll be at 100% come gameday on the first day of the Regular Season.

The relevant question is, did Dunta have a better deal in his back pocket than the Texans offered? The answer is very likely, yes.
REALLY? with whom and for how much? If he's all that and a bag of chips, why wouldn't he be worth those two #1's it would cost another team to get him? It's the OD question all over again.

In my view, the only people who are truly angered by Dunta are the fans that feel betrayed by his lack of loyalty. They turned on him faster than they could say, "I always knew he sucked". Once it became an emotional issue, it entered an unrecoverable downward spiral.
Now who is hearing Centaurs? It definitely isn't unrecoverable, but it was unexpected by the fan base in Houston , who isn't (recently) used to these kind of issues with our "Cornerstone" players. I still don't think he has ever "sucked", but was he at 100% by the end of last year? I serously hope not, because he wasn't having the positive impact on the field that he was pre-injury. Saying he's isn't a top 5 CB does NOT equal "suckage", it's a PoV supported by his level of play. The difference is, with the tag, he's getting paid like he's in the middle of those 5 (albeit for 1 year).

The biggest argument I keep hearing IN Dunta's favor is that this is just business. My only problem with that argument is if that's so, why does Dunta feeled "betrayed" by a Franchise tag, which is the Team's "business" response to him not accepting what they offered as a long-term deal? The Players union and the League BOTH agreed on the different tags, why do only the players get the benefit of being 'victims' here?
 
In my view, the only people who are truly angered by Dunta are the fans that feel betrayed by his lack of loyalty. They turned on him faster than they could say, "I always knew he sucked". Once it became an emotional issue, it entered an unrecoverable downward spiral.

Fans cheer for the name on the front of the jersey, not the name on the back. Many of us are here to cheer for the Team and not individual players. Personally, I do not feel betrayed by Dunta. I appreciate what he did in Htown. However, it is important to understand that football is a business and the business is to build the best team possible given the limits of the hard salary cap. Is Dunta a good player? Sure. Is he a top player at his position? No. I don't think so. Is he wrong to go after that money? No, of course not. But I think he is making a mistake in his approach.

As I have outlined numerous times, he needs to prove he is over his injury by having a HUGE year. He needs to get on the field and make his mistakes in practice rather than in the meaningful games. The only person a holdout can potentially hurt is Dunta himself.
 
I will never cheer FOR Dunta again. The guy is a prima donna, and I really don't want to see him in a Texans uniform. If he makes a big play, I will cheer for the PLAY because I want the Texans to win at all costs. But I will never cheer for Dunta the way that I cheer for others on the team. When Andre does well, I cheer for the plays AJ makes but am also happy FOR Andre. The same goes for when Mario makes a sack, Schaub completes a big time pass, etc.

If Dunta had any respect for himself or for the team, he would suck it up and show up and play. I honestly believe that Demeco and OD are being show a bit less respect than Dunta was shown yet they are there. Dunta made his stand, the Texans didn't offer him what he thought he was worth, Dunta didn't sign a contract so the Texans utilized the card that the NFL believes a team should be able to use. As far as this year, Dunta lost (if you can call getting paid $10 mil losing). What he needed to do was suck it up after the date for signing a long-term deal passed, sign his contract, and show up for camp. Then he can prove during the season that he is worth what he believes he is worth. This would have most assuredly won most of the fans back over. Instead, he sits out and mopes like a baby. No, Dunta is far from forgiven.
 
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REALLY? with whom and for how much? If he's all that and a bag of chips, why wouldn't he be worth those two #1's it would cost another team to get him? It's the OD question all over again.

The Players union and the League BOTH agreed on the different tags, why do only the players get the benefit of being 'victims' here?
Who else could be the "victim" ? The tag is placed on a player at the discretion of the team. A team isn't forced to use the tag.

It's a big jump from my assertion that Robinson would have fared well on the free agent market (pending a physical) and your suggestion he would not, based upon the fact that he did not receive an offer sheet. Julius Peppers didn't receive an offer sheet. Albert Haynesworth didn't receive an offer sheet in 2008. Doesn't mean these aren't good players who would (or did) score $big in the free agent market. Only franchise QBs are worthy of that type of draft choice compensation.
 
Just watched the last game of 2008 again, the one against Chicago. I think I saw D-rob break up ONE pass... not sure I ever saw him on a tackle. Whenever I did see him he was far away from the plays (or on the sidelines) mostly walking around.

I know that it's not really fair to 'judge' him by just that one performance, but to be honest this was the first time I watched an entire game paying specific attention to him. Not impressed, and if that's the benchmark for his possible 2009 efforts... I'll pass.

Do like Nancy Reagan, just say no! :)
 
What is so disappointing to me about the whole Dunta situation is this; During his injury, he was out there every single training camp & every single game pumping this team up. He was the consummate LEADER.

When he came back, he let everyone know how happy he was to be able to be a leader ON THE FIELD now.

How can you turn around so quickly like that? I feel like we all stood patiently behind him during his injury and now he is throwing mud in our eyes because the team isn't throwing money in his.

I'm just really disappointed in his character right now.
 
For me, it's not like he instantly became sucky because of his holdout attitude. His instincts, his tenacity, and his veteran mindset are an asset to the team.

I also don't believe he suddenly became a "sucky" player.

I've always thought he was over-rated. A good run supporting CB. I always appreciated that he left nothing on the field, and he gave it 100% every play.

But I never thought he was a top 5 corner in this league. I never thought he was a cover corner.

I think, and have thought that he is an under-sized safety playing out of position.

I do believe it was admirable of the F.O. wanting to offer Dunta more money than he is worth. Same as I thought it was the admirable thing to do with David Carr.

I wouldn't have done it.

But I understand the team doing it.

But Dunta gave us an out, by not signing whatever deal they offered him.... and it's true, I really have no idea if it was fair or not.. and he balked at the franchise tag, which I know is more than he is worth for one year of play.

If he does sign his deal, or even the franchise deal, I hope the Texans sign both O'neal & McKinsey(sp?) start them at corner, or even Bennett, and move Dunta inside to safety.
 
What is so disappointing to me about the whole Dunta situation is this; During his injury, he was out there every single training camp & every single game pumping this team up. He was the consummate LEADER.

When he came back, he let everyone know how happy he was to be able to be a leader ON THE FIELD now.

How can you turn around so quickly like that? I feel like we all stood patiently behind him during his injury and now he is throwing mud in our eyes because the team isn't throwing money in his.

I'm just really disappointed in his character right now.

I think that's how I feel about it. He fails to see how The Texans could've cut him long ago when he injured his leg. Instead a player got cut because we kept a spot on the team for him last year with the hopes that he could get better. Even then we don't know how he will last a full season and we put the franchise on him because we wanted him to stay a Texan.

I can understand complaining about the contract but come to practice for the team that really wants you to remain a Texan and show them that their money will be well spent.
 
These players make more than enough whatever the deal was just suck it up and play take the tag off of him and shop him around next offseason. There's also the option of showing up and playing well and talking to the FO behind closed doors about the contract once he proves he proves he still has it.
 
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Oh good lord. Dunta didn't franchise himself and he isn't refusing $10 million to make a statement. He'll be here come game time. He didn't take the franchise tag very well but he also said he'd be in camp if the FO agreed not to do it again and they didn't, so surprise surprise he isn't here. But hey, let's crucify him from atop Rick Smith's jock strap and pretend a couple journeymen CB's will make Dunta a distant memory with their "untapped" awesomeness.

What he is telling the front office is, I will not be back next season, and you will not get any compensation for me. I'm sorry but if I am Rick Smith I do not buckle. The FO has made it clear they want Dunta, and he is making clear he wants to go somewhere else.

He was offered top money, not league leading but top 5 for sure, and he is not a top 5 CB.

If he does not get in here by the end of the 2 game, so he can play in the 3rd game and 4th game, then he is no good to us and should be traded away.

I do not see paying a player 10M to be average for the 1st 4 weeks.
 
Oh good lord. Dunta didn't franchise himself and he isn't refusing $10 million to make a statement. He'll be here come game time. He didn't take the franchise tag very well but he also said he'd be in camp if the FO agreed not to do it again and they didn't, so surprise surprise he isn't here. But hey, let's crucify him from atop Rick Smith's jock strap and pretend a couple journeymen CB's will make Dunta a distant memory with their "untapped" awesomeness.

Sorry but Dunta hasn't lived up to anything but mediocre corner after his rookie season. Look at the stats, while they don't tell all he's definitely not one of the top 5 shutdown corners in the league, so he hasn't earned his money yet IMHO.
 
Sorry but Dunta hasn't lived up to anything but mediocre corner after his rookie season. Look at the stats, while they don't tell all he's definitely not one of the top 5 shutdown corners in the league, so he hasn't earned his money yet IMHO.

Agreed
 
painekiller said:
What he is telling the front office is, I will not be back next season, and you will not get any compensation for me. I'm sorry but if I am Rick Smith I do not buckle. The FO has made it clear they want Dunta, and he is making clear he wants to go somewhere else.

Odd how you have this all figured out when Aaron Glenn was on the radio this morning saying something completely different. Call me crazy but I'd rather take the word of someone who's actually spoken with Dunta rather than a MB poster and "league sources" who have also told John McClain we'd draft Vince Young.

Sorry but Dunta hasn't lived up to anything but mediocre corner after his rookie season. Look at the stats, while they don't tell all he's definitely not one of the top 5 shutdown corners in the league, so he hasn't earned his money yet IMHO.

Ok.
 
The problem with his holdout now is that he can't accomplish anything with it. Now, it's basically just a temper tantrum because no more negotiations can take place until after the season. So, at this point, it seems he is hurting the team's chances for success just so he can throw a fit.
 
I recall a few years back a coach from Indy telling him he's a hell of a player after a game. Wouldn't surprise me to see him go to Indy.
 
Odd how you have this all figured out when Aaron Glenn was on the radio this morning saying something completely different. Call me crazy but I'd rather take the word of someone who's actually spoken with Dunta rather than a MB poster and "league sources" who have also told John McClain we'd draft Vince Young.



Ok.
What makes you trust Glenn? We'll never know the truth man.
 
JDizzle said:
Odd how you have this all figured out when Aaron Glenn was on the radio this morning saying something completely different. Call me crazy but I'd rather take the word of someone who's actually spoken with Dunta rather than a MB poster and "league sources" who have also told John McClain we'd draft Vince Young.

What did Glenn have to say?
 
Sorry but Dunta hasn't lived up to anything but mediocre corner after his rookie season. Look at the stats, while they don't tell all he's definitely not one of the top 5 shutdown corners in the league, so he hasn't earned his money yet IMHO.

Also, he had Petey making him look better and we were fooled because we confused Dunta's effort with talent.

I loved Dunta because it seemed like he left it all on the field, played hard every play. However I have been less than satisfied with him the last couple of years. He started throwing DC under the bus ( not a good teammate move) On the field he was the one who got burned by a slow receiver to set up the gw field goal in the "almost comeback" and unfortunately he had that season ending surgery that damaged his quickeness and versatility. After his hard work to get back , I thought that he would be a leader on defense and lead our young secondary. This offseason and his attitutde has spoiled alot of the good will I had towards him. I hope he can come back and be the player that we all love to root for.
 
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