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"All's forgiven, Dunta" ??????????????
- Thread starter Marcus
- Start date
Malloy
Hall of Fame
Just watched the last game of 2008 again, the one against Chicago. I think I saw D-rob break up ONE pass... not sure I ever saw him on a tackle. Whenever I did see him he was far away from the plays (or on the sidelines) mostly walking around.
I know that it's not really fair to 'judge' him by just that one performance, but to be honest this was the first time I watched an entire game paying specific attention to him. Not impressed, and if that's the benchmark for his possible 2009 efforts... I'll pass.
Do like Nancy Reagan, just say no!
He did not have a great game, but it was a solid game.
The Bolded Part is totally untrue!
Malloy said:
But where's the story in that?
Well, it was a phone interview over the radio that I listened to as a podcast, but I could tell by the way he was holding the phone on a couple of questions that he was holding something back. I'm still waiting for the inspiration that will strike so that I know what information was being withheld, which I'll then use to bolster my point of view.
That will be fun, right?
Malloy
Hall of Fame
I agree completely. Heard the interview too and I got the feeling that he was being very 'proper' in his responses. From thereon it's speculation really
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Dunta burnt the the bridge of the return of DC , down to the ground .
Malloy
Hall of Fame
Hm... well, those were MY observations, I am not trying to say that he sucked through the entire game, I am merely pointing out that I myself (and I clearly state that it is my own observations) did not see much of him.
Feel free to object to what I saw in the game, even better, point out to me when he showed his solid contribution. I would love to go back and watch it again!
gary
Hall of Fame
If DR goes the D goes? Give me a break he knows he is not the heart of D anymore. Ryans knows that he is now the leader on D with Mario not too far behind him. DR are very close with each other, so who else is he going to side with? Dunte. Even though the overall talk was good still Glenn's statements are just as much hear say as any other of those league sources are at this point. The Texans need Dunte and his piss poor attiude? Nope. It's called upgarding through the draft and that is something that the Texans are already doing and will continue to do. It might take little longer to do things that way but it is what has to be done. Why take any chances on him messing up the attiude in the lockeroom when you don't have to? If he signs for a year and plays then fine but the Texans will still probably get rid of him next offseason or soon after in order to provide for their new young CB stars anyway. Dunte who?
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GP
Go Texans!
Tried to rep you. (Must spread rep...)
Time for us to let him sit out an entire year, then move on.
I hope DeMeco and Owen get big fat paydays now. I was against it, but now I've decided that I've had enough of the Poor Poor Dunta parade. It would make my day if Dunta sat out the year and watched other players get nice long-term deals from the Texans FO.
Blake
MMQB
Dunta Robinson is the man. He will sign his contract after TC since all the vets hate that **** anyways, and he will start at CB for us all season. Then we can sign him to a long term deal or sign and trade him. Whatever works best.
The Giants are paying Eli Manning roughly 15 million a season for the next 5-6 years. And he isnt even that good. I think we can spare 10 million for 1 year for a Dunta.
I don't let business affect my views of him. Players want to get paid. Teams don't want to pay it. I will still sport his jersey this year.
The Giants are paying Eli Manning roughly 15 million a season for the next 5-6 years. And he isnt even that good. I think we can spare 10 million for 1 year for a Dunta.
I don't let business affect my views of him. Players want to get paid. Teams don't want to pay it. I will still sport his jersey this year.
Hm... well, those were MY observations, I am not trying to say that he sucked through the entire game, I am merely pointing out that I myself (and I clearly state that it is my own observations) did not see much of him.
Feel free to object to what I saw in the game, even better, point out to me when he showed his solid contribution. I would love to go back and watch it again!
Notice the times he play bump and run even without the ball coming his way.
Notice how he switch off his receivers to come up for run support or to look for a big play. Notice how many YAC he allowed.
Besides that:
1st Qtr
2-6-HOU 48 (8:28) 22-M.Forte left end to HOU 48 for no gain (59-D.Ryans).
Dunta read the run perfectly, came up to contain the outside, then flew in to swipe at Forte's foot, making sure that Forte would go down.
Watch replay #3, you will see that Forte saw Dunta and turned inside for Ryans.
1-4-HOU 4 (6:02) 18-K.Orton pass short left to 80-B.Lloyd for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
Dunta was there. It was a timing route. The receiver ran it examplary, making it look like he was going toward the back of the end zone but came back.
In fact, the ball was way up there. Lloyd made great adjustment and skied to plug it out of the air. It was an almost impossible pass to defend. Impossible is more like it.
2nd Qtr
1-10-CHI 38 (14:20) 18-K.Orton pass short left to 80-B.Lloyd to CHI 45 for 7 yards (23-D.Robinson).
A quick inside slant, not much to do but tackle and minimize the YAC, to Zero if possible.
1-10-HOU 49 (11:26) 18-K.Orton pass incomplete short left to 86-M.Booker (23-D.Robinson).
I was afraid Dunta might get an inteference call because he was on the receiver like a blanket and had his hand in the receiver's front pocket (if he had one).
But the side judge was right there. You can't cover a guy any closer than that!
1-10-CHI 32 (1:46) (Shotgun) 18-K.Orton pass short middle to 80-B.Lloyd to CHI 45 for 13 yards (26-E.Wilson).
Dunta was on the slot receiver. He saw that pass and jumped the passing lane. The ball was just over his reach.
Any lower and Dunta would have intercepted it for a quick six.
4th Qtr
2-9-CHI 49 (11:16) 18-K.Orton pass short left to 82-G.Olsen to HOU 41 for 10 yards (23-D.Robinson).
Dunta was on the receiver as soon as he caught the pass.
I don't know the reason why he played off-man, but he was looking at the QB the whole time.
2-10-CHI 47 (2:51) (Shotgun) 18-K.Orton pass short left to 81-R.Davis pushed ob at HOU 37 for 16 yards (26-E.Wilson).
Davis was Dunta's man; but it looks like Dunta left him to Wilson as he read a shorter pass and wanted to come up to help Ryans.
The RB had come up out of the backfield from the other side and ran a crossing route to this side line.
2-10-HOU 20 (2:14) (Shotgun) 18-K.Orton pass incomplete short left to 85-E.Bennett (26-E.Wilson).
Dunta lost his man to the outside. It could have been enough for a first down.
He was playing prevent defense, making sure the receiver doesn't go deep.
With a little more than 2 mins left, we led 31-17
RipTraxx
Free Agent
Link
I flip open the morning paper, and get out the sports section, and the bold headline says . . .
All's forgiven, Dunta
. . . on top of a photo of Reeves laying on the field in pain from a broken leg.
So Mr. John McClain expects us all to forget the fact that he actually turned down an outrageous offer, way way more money than he's worth, and then threaten to sit out part of the season for being paid in the top 5 of the league . . .
. . . just because someone else playing in his position gets hurt?
There must be a fire sale somewhere on unmitigated gall these days.
If anything this headline shows is the need for better journalism covering the texans. Dick Justice and John "Kris Kringle" McClain are all we have as far as coverage??!?!?!?!?
Gimme a break
I found a video of him intercepting a ball from Steve Smith, but nothing else I would call a high-light video.
I got a couple of interviews, but that was it.
I'm of the same thought, I think!
Dunta has never been my favorite player, but I don't let that define his plays on the field.
Unless he becomes a big distraction in the locker room...
silvrhand
All Pro
Are you really saying that Dunta's best game was against the Chicago's bears awesome fleet or receivers? /sarcasm Come on we don't need tacklers at corners, if our corners are doing outside containment we got other problems than corners.
Pass first, run second, that's always been the job of corners of every defensive schema that I've seen. Occasionally you'll see a corner blitz and some crazy scheme's out of the Steelers or Ravens, but all in all they need to cover receivers and be a ball hawk when it's in the air. Great corners can bait QB's into throwing at them and then breaking on the ball and picking the ball off, yah he looked open when you threw the ball but that changed soon as it left your hand.
You didn't read my earlier posts!
I said Dunta did not have a great game.
He had a solid game.
If you want to know my thoughts about our DBs, you can find it here:
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61988
I did not say that he had a great year either!
He had a solid year, and he was our best CB in both coverage and run support.
He's a smart veteran who can coordinate with Wilson and Ferguson better than our other guys.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
They're under contract already, if they don't show they get hit with daily fines. Dunta isn't under any contract. And for all those worried about dunta getting in shape and in sync with the team, this isn't a rookie we're talking about, he's been in the league for a couple of years now, he knows what it takes to be ready for the season. I don't expect him to miss a beat at all come the 1st game.
gary
Hall of Fame
We'll see if he is even there for the first game this is a brand new D that you don't learn as well in personal drills. This is also about team support and what kind of message it sending to the rest of the team. Is going to be there to rely on when needed? OD and Demeco probably did not want to have to pay the fees and deal with the negtive pub for not going to camp. Is he going to cause trouble when does he finally show up?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I'm sure his teammates aren't as worried about this as we are, they all operate by a certain code & understand when it comes to money. Plus, we have "nice" guys they won't say anything!
& you Best believe he'll be there when those game checks start rolling. The defense is not really so brand new as Bush's role in prepping the D was increased close to the end of the season and he was pretty much given the keys to the car the last game..I'm sure Dunta already has the playbook for it or most of it and again, he's a vet & probably will pick it up fairly easy.
C
Ckw
Guest
I just can't see how anyone can even begin to defend Dunta. I didn't like it and the guy was irritating before the way he kept going to the media about his contract issues but since July 15 is now passed, I am officially pissed off at the man and don't care if he ever suits up for the team.
What he is doing right now is completely selfish and is crap. If he is worried about getting franchised, then why doesn't he do this: Go out this season, play lights out and actually get some picks and look good in coverage, and I can guarantee you the Texans will give him the payday he thinks he deserves.
Since he can no longer sign a long-term deal, all he is doing is screwing over the team given the fact that we have a new defensive coordinator and likely will be doing things a bit differently than before.
All you guys taking up for Dunta are almost as bad as the DC homers used to be.
What he is doing right now is completely selfish and is crap. If he is worried about getting franchised, then why doesn't he do this: Go out this season, play lights out and actually get some picks and look good in coverage, and I can guarantee you the Texans will give him the payday he thinks he deserves.
Since he can no longer sign a long-term deal, all he is doing is screwing over the team given the fact that we have a new defensive coordinator and likely will be doing things a bit differently than before.
All you guys taking up for Dunta are almost as bad as the DC homers used to be.
gary
Hall of Fame
Rep your way.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
It's not nearly to that point. For god's sake man This is training camp for a player who's been in the league for 4 years already. The comraderie is built already & those who've been here a couple years already know what they're getting with dunta when he does take the field. Now if this was Cush, i'd be worried b/c he doesn't know what it takes to be successful in this league.
It's a business & both parties understand what it takes sometimes to get what you want it's just tough for us as fans to watch this crap going on because we have nothing to gain or lose out of the ordeal.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I'm not jumping into the hate on Dunta gang, but the difference is there is a new coach and new system this year. Holding out this year means much more than if this had happened last year.
ubecool454
Veteran
C
Ckw
Guest
Icak beat me to it. He needs to be with his teammates learning the new (hopefully improved) defense.
Let me ask you then. What does Dunta have to gain by not signing the franchise tender?
JDizzle
I'm a dude
For or against, there is no middle ground!
Let's not get emotional, man.
HWWNBN is/was a massive bust. Dude will never getting starting gig again.
D.Rob, while not a shut down corner, is the best CB on this team.
It's just business, and I'm not sure why it's become so personal with so many folks. I understand the idea of "betrayal", but doesn't that extend to a team that RAISES ticket prices every season in spite of never having a winning product? Where is the outrage at the franchise for not being loyal to us fans by giving us the mythical "hometown discount" while we continually sell-out a stadium for a mediocre product?
Point being, the season hasn't started, we'll know more as 09/13 gets here, and we are better team with #23 playing at this point in time.
IF dude holds out during regular season, then you bring the tar and I'll bring the feathers. At that point, there is no doubt that he is hurting the team by not playing and should be chastised accordingly.
I'm not "defending" Robinson, but I am promoting objectivity.
Maybe the best take in this thread, and one that does make you stop and think about the point of D.Rob's holdout.
Will it be that much of a different D? I've heard that it will have new wrinkles but maintain a lot of the same stuff as Richard Smith's schemes. I could be completely off and whoever I heard say this completely wrong, so just curious if you could clarify. (I don't disagree with you, btw)
C
Ckw
Guest
Let's not get emotional, man.
HWWNBN is/was a massive bust. Dude will never getting starting gig again.
It was in reference to the blind homerism associated with some of the Dunta supporters.
But not the best corner the team has ever had, and I suspect, we will have someone better within a few years. As others have stated, Dunta is a safety in a corner's body. The main thing with him was his passion. His recent demonstrations have done nothing but indicate he was never as passionate about the team as we might have thought.
As I have stated before, the guy has nothing to gain from this little pity party. Forgive me for not siding with an individual who stands to make almost $10 mil in this economy.
It isn't just business because it has become incredibly clear the guy no longer wants to be here. He does not want to play for the city of Houston any longer. If he doesn't want to be here, I would rather he not be here. Not sure why that is difficult for some people to grasp.
I understand the idea of "betrayal", but doesn't that extend to a team that RAISES ticket prices every season in spite of never having a winning product? Where is the outrage at the franchise for not being loyal to us fans by giving us the mythical "hometown discount" while we continually sell-out a stadium for a mediocre product?
Agreed. DB, I expect you to organize a protest over the increasing ticket prices. If you do that, I will organize a protest over Dunta's actions.
Maybe, maybe not. It depends on the effect this has on the locker room. If the guy does not want to be here anymore, I can't see how that will not have an adverse reaction on the team chemistry.
The scary thing is he might hurt the team by playing.
I'm not "defending" Robinson, but I am promoting objectivity.
I know man.
I am far from an expert but wouldn't we have different audibles, assignments, plays, etc.? Obviously, it isn't as big of a deal as getting a new OC, but it will still have an effect.
painekiller
All Pro
Funny thing is, you can only trade him next off season if you franchise him again, he is going to be a free agent. Thus my point he wants out of here. If wanted to stay here he would have been negotiating this off season, instead he pulled away from talks. That can mean only one thing, he wants to be a free agent so he can go else where.
silvrhand
All Pro
Ahhhhhh! A voice of reason...
I'm sorry I'll disagree 100% here, no matter how much you look at the film and study playbooks that won't put you in football shape. You need to get out there pick back up the speed of the game, get used to contact again, gain some confidence, and get back into the motion. You just don't simply walk on the field especially after only playing half a year last year due to him coming back. He *NEEDS* the reps..
- John
Pantherstang84
@rolisrgti06
Absolutely, but he wants out of town. Let him go. He'll be wishing for that $23 mil guaranteed offer after testing the market unless Crazy Al or Dan Snyder signs him.
silvrhand
All Pro
I'm all for letting him go, as he was an average corner IMHO, that had a great rookie season but never followed it up. People say he's a great tackler, but honestly tackling skills aren't the first thing you think about for corners.
Deon Sanders anyone
hadaad
Rookie
I disagree. Not that it wasn't a good take, but it's not necessarily the case.
It is true that Dunta can't hold out for a long-term contract, but he can hold out for the Texans to agree that they don't franchise him next year.
It's too early to worry about Dunta. He can still wait a couple more weeks and get into great shape before the first game, unless he has an injury.
If you were going to get the same salary next year for working 200 days or 250 days, how many days would you work?
On the other hand, it is in Dunta's best interest to start playing early enough that he is completely prepared for his first game. The reason he didn't get the contract he wanted is because he isn't as good on film right now as he thinks he is. If he wants a big contract, he has to have a great season. That means he needs to know the playbook completely and he needs to be in great shape for the first regular season game.
As for the Texans, I think they only franchised Dunta because they needed one more season from him. A year from now the Texans will have Reeves, Molden, Bennett, Quin and probably McCain and another corner. They will also have draft picks available to add corners and safeties, and they could bring in mid-level free agents (like Deltha O’Neal) for little cost.
Dunta was injured for most of the last 2 years, and no one is sure how good he can be at this point. He has never been to a Pro Bowl. The Texans have staffed up at his position and they are getting ready to move on. Dunta has one year to show the league what he can do, so he better not waste the first part of if pouting.
If you were going to get the same salary next year for working 200 days or 250 days, how many days would you work?
On the other hand, it is in Dunta's best interest to start playing early enough that he is completely prepared for his first game. The reason he didn't get the contract he wanted is because he isn't as good on film right now as he thinks he is. If he wants a big contract, he has to have a great season. That means he needs to know the playbook completely and he needs to be in great shape for the first regular season game.
As for the Texans, I think they only franchised Dunta because they needed one more season from him. A year from now the Texans will have Reeves, Molden, Bennett, Quin and probably McCain and another corner. They will also have draft picks available to add corners and safeties, and they could bring in mid-level free agents (like Deltha O’Neal) for little cost.
Dunta was injured for most of the last 2 years, and no one is sure how good he can be at this point. He has never been to a Pro Bowl. The Texans have staffed up at his position and they are getting ready to move on. Dunta has one year to show the league what he can do, so he better not waste the first part of if pouting.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
My ire with Dunta at this point is what's the point of holding out from signing the tender right now? Right now I can only think he wants to save his body expecially after seeing Reeves go down. I think he'll sign the tender towards the middle of preseason and he'll get enough reps for us to put him as our nickle CB, depending on who we sign to take Reeves reps.
My other problem is if he wants out of Houston just say it. I'm sure he initally wanted to test the FA waters and see what he could get on a team that...well makes the playoffs. I just can't honestly see another team wanting to give him a bigger contract then even the vague reports of deals we've seen here. especailly taking into consideration the major injury he rehabbed from.
Dunta insisting on not being tagged again leads me to believe it's not money, he just wants out of Houston. At the cost of him being named a discontent player, he just needs to say it publically. I'm beyond upset with Dunta, I'm just ambivalent. Could care less if he signs tomorrow or the start of the season or holds out til next year. IMO in either scenario he's not doing himself any favors.
My other problem is if he wants out of Houston just say it. I'm sure he initally wanted to test the FA waters and see what he could get on a team that...well makes the playoffs. I just can't honestly see another team wanting to give him a bigger contract then even the vague reports of deals we've seen here. especailly taking into consideration the major injury he rehabbed from.
Dunta insisting on not being tagged again leads me to believe it's not money, he just wants out of Houston. At the cost of him being named a discontent player, he just needs to say it publically. I'm beyond upset with Dunta, I'm just ambivalent. Could care less if he signs tomorrow or the start of the season or holds out til next year. IMO in either scenario he's not doing himself any favors.
But that is dalemurphy's point. He can't even accomplish that, because if they broke a promise about the franchise tag before, then what is to stop them from breaking it again next off-season? And all things considered, how could he trust them to keep the promise? They can't put it in writing because contract negotiations cannot resume until after the season, which, by then, it's too late.
My thing is that I'm excited about the season, so I'm not going to let anything like a contract dispute/holdout steal my joy. If #23 doesn't show up for 09/13, then I'll be right next to everyone else saying 'screw that guy'.
Until then, I'm just not going to get negative about it and cloud the optimism and joy of a new football season. It's just not worth it (to me).
I hope he signs the tender, makes his point, and is starting against the Jets. If his play suffers, then we can point to missing TC. If not, welcome back for 2009, D.Rob, now let's win some games!
TK_Gamer
Veteran
I could be way off here, but I seriously think 2 major issues are to blame for Dunta's behavior. 1) he knows he has absolutely no leverage in the situation. If he doesn't play he doesn't get paid and he still cant go somewhere else till next year. 2) He knows he is not 100% recovered to pre-injury form and probably never will be and he was hoping for one more payday before everyone finds out just how average he really is, and it backfired by receiving the franchise tag. So now he is sulking and mad and ashamed and disappointed things didn't work out the way he wanted. Well to Dunta I say this "man up dude, the Texans loved you and would have kept you around till you retired just based on your spirit and the attitude you bring to the team. There is no good ending to this for you by leaving the Texans. It's up to you how you want to finish your career, loved and admired by your fans for who you are, or forever tarnished and underpaid for your poor attitude and decisions."
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I think you may be spot on about this.
edo783
Hall of Fame
If DR signs the tag just before the 1st game, does ANYONE think he will be up to speed for game 1????? I suspect he wont be really up to speed until game 3, maybe game 4. So, now your paying a guy, on a pro rated basis, something like 12 million dollars for a 16 game season. Anyone else think that is stupid money? Yes, he WAS our best CB on our team in the past, but based on who he was playing across from, that was sort of like being the smartest kid on the short bus. He looked good by comparison, but IMO was never the great shutdown corner some folks think he was. One heck of a run stopper, but just slightly above average as a cover guy. So, now we have a guy that wasn't a top level cover corner who has had a HORRIBLE injury to his leg (IIRC these guys make their living with their legs). He has worked his butt off to get back to even be able to play, but who thinks that the injury will have no effect on his speed and quickness??? He showed pretty clearly last year that he wasn't close to his former self. I expect he will be better this year I'm sure, but will he ever be back 100%??? I personally doubt it and now he in effect is asking us to pay even more than the 9.9 million, because we wont have full use of his services, to buy what is clearly a "Pig in a poke" situation. IMO, if he hasn't signed by at least 2 weeks before the start of the season so that he can learn the system and get into football shape, then we should pull the F-tag and use the money to sign Meco and OD.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
This speculation that he doesn't want to be here is just that.....speculation & if he were truly as desperate to get out of houston as you claim, he would've walked the instant someone offered him any ol contract or something comparable to what the texans offered him. It's business.
Pantherstang84
@rolisrgti06
Pssst. He was tagged. That means persona non grata to other teams. Thought you might like to know.
barrett
All Pro
I like this point. Any takers?
Goldensilence
hipster elite
That's the point. He has nothing to gain except maybe skipping parts of TC and maybe a preseason game or two. Might avoid injury but, at the same he misses reps.
painekiller
All Pro
Which is why he wants it in writing. And the only reason he would be concerned about the tag next season is because he wants out of Houston.
He is going to make close to $10M this season and if tagged again next season he would be paid between $11M and $13M. That is almost what he was offered, if you believe the reports.
I see no other reason to worry about the tag next season other than the guy plans to leave.
Agreed