handswarmer
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Stats = losers.... Just sayin'!!!
Grown people should NEVER type this
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Stats = losers.... Just sayin'!!!
That said, it's apples to oranges. Flacco took over an already pretty good team, defensively and otherwise. Schaub took over shyte...
My point is this.... While Flacco doesn't suck as much as he is percieved to, he's nothing special either.
Don't back track your self serving comments. You are qualifying your statement that Shaub is better than Flacco by simply stating he made the pro-bowl because you responded to my analysis that Flacco is better and Schaub is a bus driver type QB.
By the way, pro-bowl voting is largely fan voting, starts MID SEASON and ends in November, and it is well documented that players and coaches don't really care because they have to vote for players on the opposite side of the ball only.
But back to the main point. Flacco tore through these last 3 playoff games to a tune of 853 yards, 8 TDs, 0 INTs, 115 QB rating.....he carried his team, making huge plays down field. Something Schaub can't do.
If pro bowl is the measurement of a QB, then why is Vince Young out of work? Why is Matt Cassel ready to be out of work?
Pro Bowl is a joke...
because matt schaub is a pro bowl legend and its the rallying point for every delusional and sad matt schaub supporter.
"but he threw for 4700 yards and is a pro bowl mvp!!!!"
Since Tom Brady will be sitting at home watching Flacco in the Super Bowl, does that mean that Brady's better days are behind him? That he was a better QB at one time, but now he can't "carry his team"
Is Flacco better than Big Ben? If you had to choose one or the other to start a new team, are you telling me you would pick Flacco?
Is Flacco better than Rogers? Same thing, you're going to start your team, have to choose Flacco or Rogers... who you taking?
Flacco getting to the Super Bowl does not prove anything about his ability as a QB. It proves he is on the better team. It proves that his team was able to stop the Patriots from scoring enough points to win the game...... that's it.
Flacco is not better than Romo, not better than Bradford or Stafford, not better than Rogers, Brees, Brady.... he's on a better team.
Flacco may very well be better than Schaub, but being in the Super Bowl is no more proof of that than it is proof that Jacoby is a better receiver than Andre Johnson.
Ray Rice is not better than Arian.
This is my last time I'm responding to you, because you are clearly misinterpreting my post. I did NOT state Schaub is better than Flacco. I'm not trying to make that argument. You said that it would be hard to find football people outside of Kubiak that think Schaub is better than Flacco. I simply pointed out that the probowl voting contradicts that statement.
All I've posted recently is that Flacco is better than Schaub and that is indisputable. Flacco has had an incredible playoffs with incredible numbers and clutch play. Even a casual football fan can recognize that they won their games BECAUSE of him.
Of course its the end, because you have no argument to defend Schaub. All you are trying to do is bash a QB(Flacco) simply because Schaub made the pro-bow over him as an alternate???? Meanwhile, Flacco tore up the playoffs and has his team playing in the Super Bowl.
Pro bowl is a joke and it doesn't automatically qualify who football guys(coaches, owners, GMs) think are better players. That is absolutely asinine to say. I still fervently maintain that 31 of 32 teams would choose Flacco over Schaub if they had to choose between either. Hell, even Kubiak, Smith and McNair probably would too, so make it 32 out of 32 teams. And the proof is in the production and the winning.
Logical folks know the truth, Schaub-fanboys only ignore it.
Excellent post- I would only disagree with your assessment that Romo, Stafford and Bradford are better. They haven't accomplished what Joe has.Lol. Foolish Schaub apologists, resorting to making things up because you can't defend Schaub...
I challenge you to find a post where I said Flacco was better than Brady, Big Ben, Rodgers, Brees, Romo, The Mannings, Bradford, Stafford or the like. I also challenge you to quote where I said making it to the super bowl automatically qualifies you as the best in the game at your position(that is so f'n stupid). My guess is that you'll fail at the task I've assigned to you because I never said that.
All I've posted recently is that Flacco is better than Schaub and that is indisputable. Flacco has had an incredible playoffs with incredible numbers and clutch play. Even a casual football fan can recognize that they won their games BECAUSE of him.
But perhaps you are a novice fan and can't see that. If that's the case, I cannot help you with your ignorance.
Another argument that is over your head. He is not defending Schaub. He has not given his opinion of Schaub at all.
He also does not say that Schaub going to the pro bowl is proof that Schaub is better.
People voted Schaub as one of the better QBs in the AFC. Not just fans, but football players & coaches (football people) as well.
You said no football person other than Kubiak think Schaub is better than Flacco, he replied that more pro bowl voters (players & coaches; ie football people) believe Schaub is the better QB.
Another argument that is over your head. He is not defending Schaub. He has not given his opinion of Schaub at all.
He also does not say that Schaub going to the pro bowl is proof that Schaub is better.
People voted Schaub as one of the better QBs in the AFC. Not just fans, but football players & coaches (football people) as well.
You said no football person other than Kubiak think Schaub is better than Flacco, he replied that more pro bowl voters (players & coaches; ie football people) believe Schaub is the better QB.
Another argument that is over your head. He is not defending Schaub. He has not given his opinion of Schaub at all.
He also does not say that Schaub going to the pro bowl is proof that Schaub is better.
People voted Schaub as one of the better QBs in the AFC. Not just fans, but football players & coaches (football people) as well.
You said no football person other than Kubiak think Schaub is better than Flacco, he replied that more pro bowl voters (players & coaches; ie football people) believe Schaub is the better QB.
I'm not disputing that Flacco is better than Schaub.
I'm disputing Flacco's "play-off record" is poor proof of that. Flacco has a better play off record than a lot of QBs, but he isn't better than all of them.
If you're saying that Flacco is better than Schaub because of his play of record, you're saying that Flacco is better than a lot of QBs who have not had the good fortune to play on a team that consistently fielded one of the best defenses in the NFL & one of the most prolific runners.
Flacco is better than Schaub. But using his play off record as proof is faulty logic.
Another argument that is over your head. He is not defending Schaub. He has not given his opinion of Schaub at all.
He also does not say that Schaub going to the pro bowl is proof that Schaub is better.
People voted Schaub as one of the better QBs in the AFC. Not just fans, but football players & coaches (football people) as well.
You said no football person other than Kubiak think Schaub is better than Flacco, he replied that more pro bowl voters (players & coaches; ie football people) believe Schaub is the better QB.
You are making assumptions. I'm only comparing TWO Quarterbacks, Flacco and Schaub. We are not having a generalized discussion about all QBs, because that is an entirely different discussion and my thoughts on ranking all QBs are very different. My statements are very specific to Flacco and Schaub.You can't take what I'm saying and generalize it to the rest of the QBs because I've disqualified that by only taking about comparisons.
So you obviously have a very high regard for the Pro-bowl process huh? Can I make that assumption...you know since you like to make assumptions yourself? Lets just go ahead and say you do. That you believe the pro-bowl is the end all for how coaches and GMs view a players worth because that is what you are seemingly defending.
Furthermore,A quick google search of "undeserving pro-bowler" in 2013 will yield many lists that include Schaub. Pro-bowl snub articles are also to found everywhere....So again, the pro-bowl can be a real joke. In the NFC alone, there are 6, count'em 6 Pro-bowl QBs that get the "honor", lol...
Its all about context my friend...and there is no way a competent GM/Coach will choose Schaub over Flacco, no way in hell.
If your logic only applies to Schaub & Flacco, it is flawed. It doesn't hold up in comparison to the other QBs in the league, it is flawed.
Many lists & articles written by "football people"?
Are these GMs & Coaches? Scouts maybe? Or fans?
Context.
Coaches vote for the probowl. As far as I can tell, the coaches believe Matt Schaub is the better QB. Truthfully it's hard to tell, unless you get a break down of the coaches vote, the players vote, & the fan vote. But since Matt Schaub is a virtual unknown (we don't get no respect in Houston) & they got the Peyton Manning & Tom Brady thing right, it isn't too far of a stretch to believe that more coaches believe Matt Schaub is a better QB than Joe Flacco.
Again, I do not agree. I'd trade Schaub for Flacco in a heartbeat. I'd ever throw in a first day draft pick & a probowl center to sweeten the deal.
But I will not argue that more coaches will take Flacco when the ProBowl is evidence to the contrary.
That doesn't mean I think probowl voting is the end all be all of player evaluation.
To even consider the Pro Bowl as a measure to ascertain who is a better player lessens credibility.
Last.
I'm not disputing that Flacco is better than Schaub.
I'm disputing Flacco's "play-off record" is poor proof of that. Flacco has a better play off record than a lot of QBs, but he isn't better than all of them.
If you're saying that Flacco is better than Schaub because of his play of record, you're saying that Flacco is better than a lot of QBs who have not had the good fortune to play on a team that consistently fielded one of the best defenses in the NFL & one of the most prolific runners.
Flacco is better than Schaub. But using his play off record as proof is faulty logic.
Can we use the pro bowl to ascertain that "football people" would choose one person over another?
That's the only argument using the probowl as evidence.
Coaches & players vote for the pro bowl. Are they voting based on popularity?
Fans vote. Mst players and coaches say they don't have enough time to really see who is playing the best because they are busy trying to win.
Its a joke- like Alex Rodriguez was the best 3rd baseman in the AL in 2011? Gimme a break.
In any case, this whole conversation seems to be going just for arguing sake. Now you guys have went down to the sematics of things when the bottom line is you all agree Flacco is better. So what are you arguing about? How that judgement is configured? Does that really matter? If so, then by all means continue. But we really have enough Schaub threads as is and our playoff time is over. I think we have all learned Schaub has more issues than we first believed.
They still vote. What is said is they don't get to see all the players so most of the votes from players ends up becoming a game of politics. Sometimes they will vote for players that are completely unknown to help their teammates out or they won't vote for players they dislike (i.e. Richard Sherman). Not to mention they can't vote for teammates and have to vote for opposite side of the ball only. So no not just fans. If you think Schaub is a fan favorite, well, that is a stretch. Players in our city don't often get a ton of recognition nor media attention for that to be the case. It was refreshing seeing Watt get attention this year as Cush deserved it last year but got nothing.
In any case, this whole conversation seems to be going just for arguing sake. Now you guys have went down to the sematics of things when the bottom line is you all agree Flacco is better. So what are you arguing about? How that judgement is configured? Does that really matter? If so, then by all means continue. But we really have enough Schaub threads as is and our playoff time is over. I think we have all learned Schaub has more issues than we first believed.
I don't understand the constant barrage of "Houston players donn't get any media exposure"=> everytime I turned on NFL Net this season there was JJ Watt, Arian Foster and AJ...even Matt Schaub...Like Houston is small market?
Anyway, not everyone agrees that Flacco is better than Schaub; but I'll keep trying to convince them...
Sorry dude, Schaub and Flacco are both average. The only thing Flacco is elite at is ruining his mouth about how elite he is.
Flacco left Schaub in the dust after this year. Schaub couldn't win HFA with two games and played poorly in the post season. Flacco had 8 TDs and zero INT this post season. His team depended on him to make clutch throws and he delivered. Something us Texan fans can only dream of Schaub doing in the play offs.
Flacco wasn't even in a position to win HFA throughout the play-offs.
Up until week 12, I would bet the overwhelming opinion was that Schaub was better. That's most likely why he is in the pro bowl & Flacco isn't.
Flacco, in my mind, didn't pull ahead, until that Denver game in the divisional round of the play-offs. & he backed it up with his play in the AFC Championship game.
Until those two games, most "football people" wouldn't even touch the debate because it wasn't worth discussing. Who was the better of two bad QBs? Who really cares?
Sorry dude, Schaub and Flacco are both average. The only thing Flacco is elite at is ruining his mouth about how elite he is.
...flacco is 3 years younger and has played in 12 playoff games and should be getting ready for his 2nd super bowl had lee evans not dropped a gimmie..
Sorry dude, Schaub and Flacco are both average. The only thing Flacco is elite at is ruining his mouth about how elite he is.
Just pointing out the fact that Matt had two chances to secure HFA and did not. Yes, this is a team sport, but Matt didn't help put his team in good positions to win. That's bad for ANY QB. I couldn't careless what our record was or what people thought before the post season. Playoffs is where you find out what kind of team you really have.
Flacco flourished in the big games. Schaub did not flourish in his big games.. multiple times. Big difference.
this type of stuff proves you see things only in black and white. while neither schaub or flacco are elite, theres no way these guys are in the same category.. flacco is 3 years younger and has played in 12 playoff games and should be getting ready for his 2nd super bowl had lee evans not dropped a gimmie.. flacco is approaching that next level. the level between elite and good. guys like ben and eli are there. meanwhile schaub is trying his damndest to not drop from good to below average..
in 6 of his last 7 playoff games, flacco has posted great qb ratings, the only game he had a down was last years game against the texans.. there isnt even a comparison between the 2, using the eyeball test, when both qbs are on, they do different things, schaub plays great when the system is working, he does whats asked. flacco on the other hand is beating coverages, out throwing dbs, threading needles. escaping pressure, and just shredding secondaries... the guy has a much bigger arm than schaub and is far and wide the more mobile of the two... no comparison
this type of stuff proves you see things only in black and white. while neither schaub or flacco are elite, theres no way these guys are in the same category.. flacco is 3 years younger and has played in 12 playoff games and should be getting ready for his 2nd super bowl had lee evans not dropped a gimmie.. flacco is approaching that next level. the level between elite and good. guys like ben and eli are there. meanwhile schaub is trying his damndest to not drop from good to below average..
in 6 of his last 7 playoff games, flacco has posted great qb ratings, the only game he had a down was last years game against the texans.. there isnt even a comparison between the 2, using the eyeball test, when both qbs are on, they do different things, schaub plays great when the system is working, he does whats asked. flacco on the other hand is beating coverages, out throwing dbs, threading needles. escaping pressure, and just shredding secondaries... the guy has a much bigger arm than schaub and is far and wide the more mobile of the two... no comparison
I don't understand the constant barrage of "Houston players donn't get any media exposure"=> everytime I turned on NFL Net this season there was JJ Watt, Arian Foster and AJ...even Matt Schaub...Like Houston is small market?
Anyway, not everyone agrees that Flacco is better than Schaub; but I'll keep trying to convince them...
I do.
I see us winning with Foster having a big day, the D having a big day, and Matt not turning the ball over.
Just pointing out the fact that Matt had two chances to secure HFA and did not. Yes, this is a team sport, but Matt didn't help put his team in good positions to win. That's bad for ANY QB. I couldn't careless what our record was or what people thought before the post season. Playoffs is where you find out what kind of team you really have.
Flacco flourished in the big games. Schaub did not flourish in his big games.. multiple times. Big difference.
great post.
matt sucks physically, one would think he would make for it in the intangible, leadership, poise, decision making area.
The problem is, matt also sucks at those areas.
Yet houston fans and the front office find it so hard to move on from him. Its as if its some impossibility to find someone better than a guy who sucks physically and mentally.
Who is a Free Agent or draft pick that is better than Schaub right now for the 2013 season? Somone who could put them ina position to win in 2013 in the Playoffs?
FA market is thin beyond Flacco.
But what if the Seahawks release Flynn?
I would bring him in on a one year deal and let him compete and see if a long term deal was worth it. But, other teams like KC, AZ, etc would probably give him a long term deal up front.
I also think Alex Smith would be an upgrade.
Which one gets you to the SB?
McNair needs to step up and insist on excellence.
I also think Alex Smith would be an upgrade.
FA market is thin beyond Flacco.
But what if the Seahawks release Flynn?
I would bring him in on a one year deal and let him compete and see if a long term deal was worth it. But, other teams like KC, AZ, etc would probably give him a long term deal up front.
I also think Alex Smith would be an upgrade.
Never thought there'd be a day when knee-jerks would be clammoring for Alex Smith. lol
Schaub ain't much and, unfortunately, he'll be here at least another 2 years. Anyone that mentions trading, cutting or benching him are my definition of a knee-jerker. One that refuses to be realistic. Or they're just plain dumb.
Flacco is an inch taller than Schaub – 6-6 to 6-5 - but three pounds lighter – 232 to 235. He has been more durable in his career, but Schaub showed this season he could get up from a hit, too. He significantly outplayed Flacco in their head-to-head meeting and, while Schaub stumbled badly in December, so did Flacco.
But Flacco is something of a Mr. January, winning nine games in the postseason. That’s eight more than Schaub has won despite being in the league four seasons longer. It would indicate Flacco has the tougher mental makeup, but it also means he has been on much better teams in Baltimore than Schaub in Houston. The Ravens have made the playoffs all five seasons Flacco has been in the league. The Texans have advanced twice.
When it looked as if they might again fall short, they switched offensive coordinators, reemphasizing the running game, taking pressure off Flacco to win games with his arm.
They later realigned the offensive line, again taking pressure off Flacco by giving him more protection.
They also had him surrounded with playmakers such as Anquan Boldin, Torrey Smith, David Pitta and Ray Rice. They even used their fullbacks in the running and passing game.
This was in the Chronicle four days ago. I wonder why it wasn't posted here. Maybe because it's the Chronicle??
Here's another one from the 4th as well.
Like me he remembers the change in OC was to take the ball out of Flacco's hand & put it in Ray Rice's hands, that was the idea. Didn't work out that way, but at the time, that's what the talking heads were saying & the general consensus.