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Where does Matt rank with QBs in playoffs
- Thread starter gafftop
- Start date
Try not imagining I said something I didn't.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
I live in San Jose, so I have to sit through a lot of 49ers news on TV and friends. Smith gets the same flak around here that Schaub does from Texans fans. "He's a conservative game-manager with a weak arm and won't win the 49ers a SB."
Re-watch Smith during the Nolan & Singletary days. You'll see a guy make constant mistakes. Harbaugh did a good job of going ultra conservative with him so he wouldn't commit to many mistakes.
handswarmer
Rookie
The implication from the article and from your post is that Flacco was surrounded with better talent than Schaub and thats why he succeeded. I merely asked who was better, position by position.
Uh.... the articles I read were more about the similarities between Schaub & Flacco. Like I've been saying throughout this thread, they were considered "about the same" until January of this year.
If Flacco can "step up" & win a Super Bowl, no reason to believe Schaub can't. He's only 3 years older. & though his arm isn't as strong & he is not as mobile, Schaub has made up for it in other ways & has been a "better" QB than Flacco over the last two years in stats & wins. The only thing Flacco has over Schaub at this point, is wins in big games.
As far as talent goes...... this is the NFL. We're all pretty talented. The difference is who "steps up" in those big games. Schaub didn't, Flacco did. Andre didn't, Boldin did. KDub didn't, Torrey Smith did. Our OL didn't, the Ravens did. James Casey didn't, Vonta Leech did.
Heck, if Danieal Manning didn't run out of gas on that opening return, that game would have been totally different.
handswarmer
Rookie
I don't believe it to bethe same.....Schaub had an opportunity in NE in the reg season and playoffs, yet melted
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
& I really don't care what you think.
There's no doubt about it, Flacco kicked a55 in the playoffs & Schaub folded. That's the difference & that's what I've been saying is the difference.
However, let's not act like Joe Flacco has always rated so high in the big games. He was the one they blamed for their previous losses, just like Schaub. (Cue Raven's fan crediting Flacco with the Raven's defensive play-off wins).
Big difference is that Flacco has been mundane in the regular season & Schaub performs as well as the best of them...... usually. This season, definitely not true, but in the past, Matt Schaub has been a great regular season QB & Flacco has been lucky to be considered middle of the pack.
Both Flacco & Schaub had something to prove in these play-offs. Flacco, whose team elevated their game, did so & Schaub, whose team did not, did not. I'm not taking anything away from Flacco. Though his team performed like a championship team, Flacco performed like a championship QB. He's part of the team. But Kaepernick performed like a championship QB as well, but when it counted, when the chips where on the table, his team failed where Flacco's team prevailed. That 4 down possession inside the 6 had nothing to do with Flacco but contributed as much as any Raven's possession to a championship victory.
If we had our pick, who here would take Flacco over Kaepernick (Raven's homer excluded).
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
TejasTom
All Pro
handswarmer
Rookie
Its a discussion dude...don't get your Texans panties in a bunch
handswarmer
Rookie
You should go back and look at the second half when Flacco threw the ball to eat the clock. Crucial trows on third downs, moving the chains....etc.
I've never said Joe was or should be rated at the top- rating QB's is always subjective ad the ones doing the rating ver rarely define their criteria or guidelines for determining the order off the list.
I've always said that Joe was better han what his detractors would say. Even this week on NFL Total Acces, Jamie Dukes couldn't or wouldn't give Flacco his due. Neiter will Skip Bayliss. But they are immaterial.
Flacco won games this season when his defense stunk, while being hamstrung by his coordinator and when the running game was ignored.
It's not about my panties. It's about staying on track.
What you thought does not help, or detract from the point I was making. It was totally irrelevant.
I know there were a fringe few who believed in Flacco. There are a few that still believe in Matt. That was not the point.
handswarmer
Rookie
In all fairness, what you think "If Flacco can "step up" & win a Super Bowl, no reason to believe Schaub can't " doesn't help your argument nor help you make your point.
You win. You're right. Before the play-offs, Joe Flacco was considered a mediocre QB just like Schaub.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Flacco had everything but actually getting it done . He has size , arm strength , durability , and decent mobility .
Steal Your Face
Noob
Right here ... right here, I would!!!
handswarmer
Rookie
No one "wins"....Last Regular season was not his best, I know that much. It was the firing of Cam Cameron and elevation of Jim Caldwell that allowed Joe to flourish in the offense.
And the intial question to start the THREAD was
"Where does Matt rank with QBs in the PLayoffs?"
I remember last season how the talk was all about the Ravens "new" offense. But Flacco managed to temper expectations.
They flashed from time to time, but his inconsistencies brought them back to the mean.... we'll see what lasting affects Caldwell will have on your offense.
handswarmer
Rookie
This is from the beginning of this past season...
"Under offensive coordinator Cam Cameron, the Ravens' offense was old-school in all the worst ways from a passing game perspective. Rooted in the Sid Gillman/Don Coryell/Norv Turner concepts of the deep-strike pass, Cameron's formation concepts did not add the diversity required in the current NFL."
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-s...cco-baltimore-ravens-next-112050672--nfl.html
Doesn't change the fact that we've heard how good the Ravens offense is going to be before. We'll see if it sticks this time.
handswarmer
Rookie
Fair enough- I had my doubts before the season myself- I long beieved that Cam was 'holding' back Joe. A quote from Greg Cosell of NFL Films cemented i fo me= "Its like their offense is stuck in the 60's"....
Caldwell is the key
Even without Flacco's physical gifts, Matt has outperformed Flacco, in the regular season, since 2007.
handswarmer
Rookie
But Flacco has more wins, Flacco wins more in the big games.
You can have him, I'll take Joe
And since 2008, the year they were drafted
Somebody's pp hurt, of that I have no doubt. You can dismiss the stats, but it doesn't change the fact that Matt has out performed Flacco in the regular season, on a gimp foot no less.
You can argue that Matt chokes in the big game & I really can't argue. But just because he didn't win his first divisional play off game ever, doesn't mean that he can't, or that he won't win the next one.
And I love the underthrown ball & the receiver having to adjust argument, but when we're talking about Flacco, his two biggest throws of the play offs were both underthrown. & the first TD pass to Bolden in the Super Bowl...... go back & watch a few passes before that, he threw the same ball to Bolden, Bolden just wasn't able to adjust. The one that he did score on Bolden made an amazing Matrix like catch.
Wins are a team thing.
& yes, you're right. Flacco was drafted in 2008 & Matt outperformed him in the regular season ever since.
& I like the avatar..... it's not flaunting if you got it.
handswarmer
Rookie
What exactly is the measuremnt being used? Passing stats, wins, Passing yardage, TD-INT ratio, scarmble yardage??? Lets have a defined measurable.
If he dddn't win his first playoff game, then that means he can't. The TWO stats I go back to with Ryan are- 9TDS- 7INTS and 1 WIN- 4 LOSSES
Both balls that were "underthrown" to Jacoby for TDS: #1- The last second TD in Denver travels 55yds in the air while Flacco steps up in the pocket halway plants and throws due to the pass rush. #2- 56 yard TD in the Super Bowl travels 50 yds thru the air off his front foot as Flacco steps up in the pocket to elude the rush. Not sure anyone else could have made those throws.
The throws to Boldin are throws they practice- put it where only Boldin can go get it because Boldin has some of the strongest hands, arms in the league. Flacco started the season with some of the same throws, they have been there all year long.
handswarmer
Rookie
Marino had awesome regular seasons
Tarkenton had awesome regular seasons
Matt Stafford has awesome regular seasons
Cam Newton has awesome regular seasons
And thanks= waited 12 years, same length of time we didn't have fooball after the Colts were stolen....
handswarmer
Rookie
When you have Julio Jones, Roddy White and Tony G and can't convert a 4th and 1.....
I'm sorry...
...what was the original point of this discussion?
oh yeah, where does Matt Schaub rank among the 2012/13 playoff QBs. Well, if regular season means nothing except to get you in the dance - as has been said often by some here - AND the only stat that counts is W's, then only way to rank QBs is by their playoff records...
1. Flacco 4-0
2. Kaepernick 2-1
3. Five-way tie for third; Schaub, Wilson, M. Ryan, A. Rodgers, T. Brady.
8. Five-way tie for eigth; Joe Webb, A. Luck, RGIII, Dalton, P. Manning.
So Schaub is third - along with four other schmucks who only won one game too. I put him behind Brady since Brady won the head-to-head match up and even with Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, and Aaron Rodgers who also won at home but lost on the road.
There.... See how easy that was?
...what was the original point of this discussion?
oh yeah, where does Matt Schaub rank among the 2012/13 playoff QBs. Well, if regular season means nothing except to get you in the dance - as has been said often by some here - AND the only stat that counts is W's, then only way to rank QBs is by their playoff records...
1. Flacco 4-0
2. Kaepernick 2-1
3. Five-way tie for third; Schaub, Wilson, M. Ryan, A. Rodgers, T. Brady.
8. Five-way tie for eigth; Joe Webb, A. Luck, RGIII, Dalton, P. Manning.
So Schaub is third - along with four other schmucks who only won one game too. I put him behind Brady since Brady won the head-to-head match up and even with Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, and Aaron Rodgers who also won at home but lost on the road.
There.... See how easy that was?
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handswarmer
Rookie
I'm sorry...
...what was the original point of this discussion?
oh yeah, where does Matt Schaub rank among the 2012/13 playoff QBs. Well, if regular season means nothing except to get you in the dance - as has been said often by some here - AND the only stat that counts is W's, then only way to rank QBs is by their playoff records...
1. Flacco 4-1
2. Kaepernick 2-1
3. Five-way tie for third; Schaub, Wilson, M. Ryan, A. Rodgers, T. Brady.
8. Five-way tie for eigth; Joe Webb, A. Luck, RGIII, Dalton, P. Manning.
So Schaub is third - along with four other schmucks who only won one game too. I put him behind Brady since Brady won the head-to-head match up and even with Matt Ryan, Russell Wilson, and Aaron Rodgers who also won at home but lost on the road.
There.... See how easy that was?
Flacco 4-0
In summary you agree the balls were underthrown & Bolden made an amazing Matrix catch?
handswarmer
Rookie
2 of Flacco's passes were underthrown, I gave the circumstances, not what the other poster was talking about with Ryan; his passes that are underthrown are in the 10-15-20 yd range, not 40 to 50 yds downfield. So Its really not a comparison.
As far as Boldin goes, they practice those throws and catches to take advantage of Flacco's arm ad Boldin's strong pass catching ability. I've seen him make sliding catches, running catches, etc. He also had 3 drops in the Super Bowl; one that almost hit him in the face mask.
In summary you agree the balls were underthrown & Bolden made an amazing Matrix catch?
handswarmer
Rookie
When Matt Ryan can even throw the ball 55 yds in the air, come talk to me...
Otherrwise your point, while technically correct, is moot and immaterial to the conversation.
So now that we got that out of the way....
My friend.
It is not my intention to insult Joe Flacco when I mention that his two biggest throws in his amazing Super Bowl run were underthrown. Nor do I mean any harm to the most awesomest QB in the league when I say Bolden contorted himself to catch a pass thrown by the great one. Technically they are just facts.
But this is a Texans board & the conversation is about Matt Schaub. The argument was made that Matt's stats mean nothing because he consistently under throws his receivers & they have to make wildly acrobatic catches to make him look good.
A reference to Flacco here is not an insult. It is a sincere expression of flattery that I compare our mere human QB to the god of all QBs.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
18 page thread and schaub still sucks. Dude is a fraud. A high paid fraud. But a fraud. Not even best qb in his division let alone playoffs.
handswarmer
Rookie
Go back to th Week 1 win over te Bengals- Joe threw the same pass to Pitta: its in the playbook.
Regardless, the thread was about comparing Schaub to the other 11 QB's in the playoffs: that was done and became a focus on Flacco as he kept winning while others were losing.
Jules Winnfield
BMF
leave it to texan fans who have severe emotional attachments to mediocre qbs and choke artists.
See David Carr
See Biggio and Bagwell
See the the Rockets after the Yao/Tmac era
This city embraces mediocrity and the status quo like no other.