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Where does Matt rank with QBs in playoffs

Texan_Bill said:
That said, it's apples to oranges. Flacco took over an already pretty good team, defensively and otherwise. Schaub took over shyte...

My point is this.... While Flacco doesn't suck as much as he is percieved to, he's nothing special either.
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You could argue that til the cows come home- it doesn't cchange the fact that over his first 5 yrs, Flacco has accomplished something that may never be duplicated: Most wins by a QB, and most road playoff wins by a qb---EVER.

Sure he benefitted from a solid run game and defense his first few years; so did Sanchez. So did Alex Smith last year. So did Cutler. Romo. Cassel in '10.

But what Flacco has done over the last 2 years is pretty remarkable- his 12 Tds and 0 INT (with just 1 fumble) this year and flat out beating Luck, Manning and Brady show that Joe has arrived. and that he is better than Schaub.
 
Texcore said:
Don't back track your self serving comments. You are qualifying your statement that Shaub is better than Flacco by simply stating he made the pro-bowl because you responded to my analysis that Flacco is better and Schaub is a bus driver type QB.

By the way, pro-bowl voting is largely fan voting, starts MID SEASON and ends in November, and it is well documented that players and coaches don't really care because they have to vote for players on the opposite side of the ball only.

But back to the main point. Flacco tore through these last 3 playoff games to a tune of 853 yards, 8 TDs, 0 INTs, 115 QB rating.....he carried his team, making huge plays down field. Something Schaub can't do.
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If pro bowl is the measurement of a QB, then why is Vince Young out of work? Why is Matt Cassel ready to be out of work?

Pro Bowl is a joke...
 
handswarmer said:
If pro bowl is the measurement of a QB, then why is Vince Young out of work? Why is Matt Cassel ready to be out of work?

Pro Bowl is a joke...
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because matt schaub is a pro bowl legend and its the rallying point for every delusional and sad matt schaub supporter.

"but he threw for 4700 yards and is a pro bowl mvp!!!!"
 
Fiddler said:
Since Tom Brady will be sitting at home watching Flacco in the Super Bowl, does that mean that Brady's better days are behind him? That he was a better QB at one time, but now he can't "carry his team"

Is Flacco better than Big Ben? If you had to choose one or the other to start a new team, are you telling me you would pick Flacco?

Is Flacco better than Rogers? Same thing, you're going to start your team, have to choose Flacco or Rogers... who you taking?

Flacco getting to the Super Bowl does not prove anything about his ability as a QB. It proves he is on the better team. It proves that his team was able to stop the Patriots from scoring enough points to win the game...... that's it.

Flacco is not better than Romo, not better than Bradford or Stafford, not better than Rogers, Brees, Brady.... he's on a better team.

Flacco may very well be better than Schaub, but being in the Super Bowl is no more proof of that than it is proof that Jacoby is a better receiver than Andre Johnson.

Ray Rice is not better than Arian.
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Lol. Foolish Schaub apologists, resorting to making things up because you can't defend Schaub...

I challenge you to find a post where I said Flacco was better than Brady, Big Ben, Rodgers, Brees, Romo, The Mannings, Bradford, Stafford or the like. I also challenge you to quote where I said making it to the super bowl automatically qualifies you as the best in the game at your position(that is so f'n stupid). My guess is that you'll fail at the task I've assigned to you because I never said that.

All I've posted recently is that Flacco is better than Schaub and that is indisputable. Flacco has had an incredible playoffs with incredible numbers and clutch play. Even a casual football fan can recognize that they won their games BECAUSE of him.

But perhaps you are a novice fan and can't see that. If that's the case, I cannot help you with your ignorance.
 
dream_team said:
This is my last time I'm responding to you, because you are clearly misinterpreting my post. I did NOT state Schaub is better than Flacco. I'm not trying to make that argument. You said that it would be hard to find football people outside of Kubiak that think Schaub is better than Flacco. I simply pointed out that the probowl voting contradicts that statement.
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Of course its the end, because you have no argument to defend Schaub. All you are trying to do is bash a QB(Flacco) simply because Schaub made the pro-bow over him as an alternate???? Meanwhile, Flacco tore up the playoffs and has his team playing in the Super Bowl.

Pro bowl is a joke and it doesn't automatically qualify who football guys(coaches, owners, GMs) think are better players. That is absolutely asinine to say. I still fervently maintain that 31 of 32 teams would choose Flacco over Schaub if they had to choose between either. Hell, even Kubiak, Smith and McNair probably would too, so make it 32 out of 32 teams. And the proof is in the production and the winning.

Logical folks know the truth, Schaub-fanboys only ignore it.
 
Texcore said:
All I've posted recently is that Flacco is better than Schaub and that is indisputable. Flacco has had an incredible playoffs with incredible numbers and clutch play. Even a casual football fan can recognize that they won their games BECAUSE of him.
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I'm not disputing that Flacco is better than Schaub.

I'm disputing Flacco's "play-off record" is poor proof of that. Flacco has a better play off record than a lot of QBs, but he isn't better than all of them.

If you're saying that Flacco is better than Schaub because of his play of record, you're saying that Flacco is better than a lot of QBs who have not had the good fortune to play on a team that consistently fielded one of the best defenses in the NFL & one of the most prolific runners.

Flacco is better than Schaub. But using his play off record as proof is faulty logic.
 
Texcore said:
Of course its the end, because you have no argument to defend Schaub. All you are trying to do is bash a QB(Flacco) simply because Schaub made the pro-bow over him as an alternate???? Meanwhile, Flacco tore up the playoffs and has his team playing in the Super Bowl.

Pro bowl is a joke and it doesn't automatically qualify who football guys(coaches, owners, GMs) think are better players. That is absolutely asinine to say. I still fervently maintain that 31 of 32 teams would choose Flacco over Schaub if they had to choose between either. Hell, even Kubiak, Smith and McNair probably would too, so make it 32 out of 32 teams. And the proof is in the production and the winning.

Logical folks know the truth, Schaub-fanboys only ignore it.
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Another argument that is over your head. He is not defending Schaub. He has not given his opinion of Schaub at all.

He also does not say that Schaub going to the pro bowl is proof that Schaub is better.

People voted Schaub as one of the better QBs in the AFC. Not just fans, but football players & coaches (football people) as well.

You said no football person other than Kubiak think Schaub is better than Flacco, he replied that more pro bowl voters (players & coaches; ie football people) believe Schaub is the better QB.
 
Texcore said:
Lol. Foolish Schaub apologists, resorting to making things up because you can't defend Schaub...

I challenge you to find a post where I said Flacco was better than Brady, Big Ben, Rodgers, Brees, Romo, The Mannings, Bradford, Stafford or the like. I also challenge you to quote where I said making it to the super bowl automatically qualifies you as the best in the game at your position(that is so f'n stupid). My guess is that you'll fail at the task I've assigned to you because I never said that.

All I've posted recently is that Flacco is better than Schaub and that is indisputable. Flacco has had an incredible playoffs with incredible numbers and clutch play. Even a casual football fan can recognize that they won their games BECAUSE of him.

But perhaps you are a novice fan and can't see that. If that's the case, I cannot help you with your ignorance.
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Excellent post- I would only disagree with your assessment that Romo, Stafford and Bradford are better. They haven't accomplished what Joe has.
 
thunderkyss said:
Another argument that is over your head. He is not defending Schaub. He has not given his opinion of Schaub at all.

He also does not say that Schaub going to the pro bowl is proof that Schaub is better.

People voted Schaub as one of the better QBs in the AFC. Not just fans, but football players & coaches (football people) as well.

You said no football person other than Kubiak think Schaub is better than Flacco, he replied that more pro bowl voters (players & coaches; ie football people) believe Schaub is the better QB.
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"Schaub’s inclusion, meanwhile, is an interesting one. The Texans’ quarterback currently has fewer passing yards than Andrew Luck or Joe Flacco and fewer TD passes than Andy Dalton, Philip Rivers and even Ben Roethlisberger."- http://nfl.si.com/2012/12/26/pro-bowl-rosters-once-again-open-the-door-for-debate/
 
thunderkyss said:
Another argument that is over your head. He is not defending Schaub. He has not given his opinion of Schaub at all.

He also does not say that Schaub going to the pro bowl is proof that Schaub is better.

People voted Schaub as one of the better QBs in the AFC. Not just fans, but football players & coaches (football people) as well.

You said no football person other than Kubiak think Schaub is better than Flacco, he replied that more pro bowl voters (players & coaches; ie football people) believe Schaub is the better QB.
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:clap:

I think by contradicting (or in my case, proving wrong) any of Texcore's comments instantly makes you a "Schaub apologist".
 
thunderkyss said:
Another argument that is over your head. He is not defending Schaub. He has not given his opinion of Schaub at all.

He also does not say that Schaub going to the pro bowl is proof that Schaub is better.

People voted Schaub as one of the better QBs in the AFC. Not just fans, but football players & coaches (football people) as well.

You said no football person other than Kubiak think Schaub is better than Flacco, he replied that more pro bowl voters (players & coaches; ie football people) believe Schaub is the better QB.
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Well that's one way to end a debate. Although, in hindsight it wasn't much of a debate, really.

:wadepalm:

PS - MSR
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm not disputing that Flacco is better than Schaub.

I'm disputing Flacco's "play-off record" is poor proof of that. Flacco has a better play off record than a lot of QBs, but he isn't better than all of them.

If you're saying that Flacco is better than Schaub because of his play of record, you're saying that Flacco is better than a lot of QBs who have not had the good fortune to play on a team that consistently fielded one of the best defenses in the NFL & one of the most prolific runners.

Flacco is better than Schaub. But using his play off record as proof is faulty logic.
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You are making assumptions. I'm only comparing TWO Quarterbacks, Flacco and Schaub. We are not having a generalized discussion about all QBs, because that is an entirely different discussion and my thoughts on ranking all QBs are very different. My statements are very specific to Flacco and Schaub.You can't take what I'm saying and generalize it to the rest of the QBs because I've disqualified that by only taking about comparisons.

I didn't just cite his playoff record (which is highly respectable!) as the sole reason, but its easily one of many. How many QBs in their first 5 years in the league can say they've won 8 playoff games already? In fact 5 years into his career he already has more post season playoff wins than any QB in history. Does that make him the best QB in history? God no, but its a testament to his ability this far in his young career.

Not taking a QB's playoff production into account, when he has had a good team around him like the Ravens have, would be asinine. Had Flacco amassed a 1-11 record rather than his 8-4 record, then my thoughts on him would be very different. Schaub had a really great Texan team around him, but he's been embarrassingly horrible in big prime time games against the big boys. Meanwhile, its seems the bigger the game for Flacco, the better he is. His playoff run this year (around 850 yards, 8TDs, 0INTs, wins against Luck, Manning and Brady). I mean seriously, give the guy respect.
 
thunderkyss said:
Another argument that is over your head. He is not defending Schaub. He has not given his opinion of Schaub at all.

He also does not say that Schaub going to the pro bowl is proof that Schaub is better.

People voted Schaub as one of the better QBs in the AFC. Not just fans, but football players & coaches (football people) as well.

You said no football person other than Kubiak think Schaub is better than Flacco, he replied that more pro bowl voters (players & coaches; ie football people) believe Schaub is the better QB.
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So you obviously have a very high regard for the Pro-bowl process huh? Can I make that assumption...you know since you like to make assumptions yourself? Lets just go ahead and say you do. That you believe the pro-bowl is the end all for how coaches and GMs view a players worth because that is what you are seemingly defending.

Yet how many GMs/coaches would take Jeff Saturday, voted into the pro-bowl this year(largely by fair weather fans), when he got benched for his horrible play by his own coach in November. But I guess using your logic, that makes him better than Nick Mangold, who didn't make the pro-bowl...yeah 32 teams would rather have Saturday over Mangold...you know, because of the pro-bowl and all...

Another example, Gore made the pro-bowl for the NFC, while Alfred Morris didn't, who has far better stats than Gore. But yeah, if given a choice, coaches/GMs will take Gore, who is on the wrong side of 30 and clearly losing a step, over a young stud Alfred Morris.

Furthermore,A quick google search of "undeserving pro-bowler" in 2013 will yield many lists that include Schaub. Pro-bowl snub articles are also to found everywhere....So again, the pro-bowl can be a real joke. In the NFC alone, there are 6, count'em 6 Pro-bowl QBs that get the "honor", lol...

Its all about context my friend...and there is no way a competent GM/Coach will choose Schaub over Flacco, no way in hell.
 
Texcore said:
You are making assumptions. I'm only comparing TWO Quarterbacks, Flacco and Schaub. We are not having a generalized discussion about all QBs, because that is an entirely different discussion and my thoughts on ranking all QBs are very different. My statements are very specific to Flacco and Schaub.You can't take what I'm saying and generalize it to the rest of the QBs because I've disqualified that by only taking about comparisons.
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If your logic only applies to Schaub & Flacco, it is flawed. It doesn't hold up in comparison to the other QBs in the league, it is flawed.

Texcore said:
So you obviously have a very high regard for the Pro-bowl process huh? Can I make that assumption...you know since you like to make assumptions yourself? Lets just go ahead and say you do. That you believe the pro-bowl is the end all for how coaches and GMs view a players worth because that is what you are seemingly defending.

Furthermore,A quick google search of "undeserving pro-bowler" in 2013 will yield many lists that include Schaub. Pro-bowl snub articles are also to found everywhere....So again, the pro-bowl can be a real joke. In the NFC alone, there are 6, count'em 6 Pro-bowl QBs that get the "honor", lol...
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Many lists & articles written by "football people"?

Are these GMs & Coaches? Scouts maybe? Or fans?


Texcore said:
Its all about context my friend...and there is no way a competent GM/Coach will choose Schaub over Flacco, no way in hell.
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Context.

Coaches vote for the probowl. As far as I can tell, the coaches believe Matt Schaub is the better QB. Truthfully it's hard to tell, unless you get a break down of the coaches vote, the players vote, & the fan vote. But since Matt Schaub is a virtual unknown (we don't get no respect in Houston) & they got the Peyton Manning & Tom Brady thing right, it isn't too far of a stretch to believe that more coaches believe Matt Schaub is a better QB than Joe Flacco.

Again, I do not agree. I'd trade Schaub for Flacco in a heartbeat. I'd ever throw in a first day draft pick & a probowl center to sweeten the deal.

But I will not argue that more coaches will take Flacco when the ProBowl is evidence to the contrary.

That doesn't mean I think probowl voting is the end all be all of player evaluation.
 
Sorry, not going to read this whole thread through, but is there really a Flacco/Schaub argument going on in one of the pages in here?
We may as well be asking if Reggie Wayne is better than Kevin Walter.
Flacco is light years ahead of Schaub.
 
thunderkyss said:
If your logic only applies to Schaub & Flacco, it is flawed. It doesn't hold up in comparison to the other QBs in the league, it is flawed.



Many lists & articles written by "football people"?

Are these GMs & Coaches? Scouts maybe? Or fans?




Context.

Coaches vote for the probowl. As far as I can tell, the coaches believe Matt Schaub is the better QB. Truthfully it's hard to tell, unless you get a break down of the coaches vote, the players vote, & the fan vote. But since Matt Schaub is a virtual unknown (we don't get no respect in Houston) & they got the Peyton Manning & Tom Brady thing right, it isn't too far of a stretch to believe that more coaches believe Matt Schaub is a better QB than Joe Flacco.

Again, I do not agree. I'd trade Schaub for Flacco in a heartbeat. I'd ever throw in a first day draft pick & a probowl center to sweeten the deal.

But I will not argue that more coaches will take Flacco when the ProBowl is evidence to the contrary.

That doesn't mean I think probowl voting is the end all be all of player evaluation.
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To even consider the Pro Bowl as a measure to ascertain who is a better player lessens credibility.
 
handswarmer said:
To even consider the Pro Bowl as a measure to ascertain who is a better player lessens credibility.
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Can we use the pro bowl to ascertain that "football people" would choose one person over another?

That's the only argument using the probowl as evidence.

Coaches & players vote for the pro bowl. Are they voting based on popularity?
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm not disputing that Flacco is better than Schaub.

I'm disputing Flacco's "play-off record" is poor proof of that. Flacco has a better play off record than a lot of QBs, but he isn't better than all of them.

If you're saying that Flacco is better than Schaub because of his play of record, you're saying that Flacco is better than a lot of QBs who have not had the good fortune to play on a team that consistently fielded one of the best defenses in the NFL & one of the most prolific runners.

Flacco is better than Schaub. But using his play off record as proof is faulty logic.
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Flacco has the best Playoff record fo any active QB- he's made history.

But the Pro Bowl is a measurement of what is a good QB?

Like Schaub throwing a pick in the Pro Bowl somehow makes him better than the guy getting ready to play in a Super Bowl?

WTF am I missing here?
 
thunderkyss said:
Can we use the pro bowl to ascertain that "football people" would choose one person over another?

That's the only argument using the probowl as evidence.

Coaches & players vote for the pro bowl. Are they voting based on popularity?
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Fans vote. Mst players and coaches say they don't have enough time to really see who is playing the best because they are busy trying to win.

Its a joke- like Alex Rodriguez was the best 3rd baseman in the AL in 2011? Gimme a break.
 
handswarmer said:
Fans vote. Mst players and coaches say they don't have enough time to really see who is playing the best because they are busy trying to win.

Its a joke- like Alex Rodriguez was the best 3rd baseman in the AL in 2011? Gimme a break.
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They still vote. What is said is they don't get to see all the players so most of the votes from players ends up becoming a game of politics. Sometimes they will vote for players that are completely unknown to help their teammates out or they won't vote for players they dislike (i.e. Richard Sherman). Not to mention they can't vote for teammates and have to vote for opposite side of the ball only. So no not just fans. If you think Schaub is a fan favorite, well, that is a stretch. Players in our city don't often get a ton of recognition nor media attention for that to be the case. It was refreshing seeing Watt get attention this year as Cush deserved it last year but got nothing.

In any case, this whole conversation seems to be going just for arguing sake. Now you guys have went down to the sematics of things when the bottom line is you all agree Flacco is better. So what are you arguing about? How that judgement is configured? Does that really matter? If so, then by all means continue. But we really have enough Schaub threads as is and our playoff time is over. I think we have all learned Schaub has more issues than we first believed.
 
deucetx said:
In any case, this whole conversation seems to be going just for arguing sake. Now you guys have went down to the sematics of things when the bottom line is you all agree Flacco is better. So what are you arguing about? How that judgement is configured? Does that really matter? If so, then by all means continue. But we really have enough Schaub threads as is and our playoff time is over. I think we have all learned Schaub has more issues than we first believed.
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True... I don't know how many times I gotta say it.
 
deucetx said:
They still vote. What is said is they don't get to see all the players so most of the votes from players ends up becoming a game of politics. Sometimes they will vote for players that are completely unknown to help their teammates out or they won't vote for players they dislike (i.e. Richard Sherman). Not to mention they can't vote for teammates and have to vote for opposite side of the ball only. So no not just fans. If you think Schaub is a fan favorite, well, that is a stretch. Players in our city don't often get a ton of recognition nor media attention for that to be the case. It was refreshing seeing Watt get attention this year as Cush deserved it last year but got nothing.

In any case, this whole conversation seems to be going just for arguing sake. Now you guys have went down to the sematics of things when the bottom line is you all agree Flacco is better. So what are you arguing about? How that judgement is configured? Does that really matter? If so, then by all means continue. But we really have enough Schaub threads as is and our playoff time is over. I think we have all learned Schaub has more issues than we first believed.
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I don't understand the constant barrage of "Houston players donn't get any media exposure"=> everytime I turned on NFL Net this season there was JJ Watt, Arian Foster and AJ...even Matt Schaub...Like Houston is small market?

Anyway, not everyone agrees that Flacco is better than Schaub; but I'll keep trying to convince them...
 
handswarmer said:
I don't understand the constant barrage of "Houston players donn't get any media exposure"=> everytime I turned on NFL Net this season there was JJ Watt, Arian Foster and AJ...even Matt Schaub...Like Houston is small market?

Anyway, not everyone agrees that Flacco is better than Schaub; but I'll keep trying to convince them...
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Sorry dude, Schaub and Flacco are both average. The only thing Flacco is elite at is ruining his mouth about how elite he is.
 
Big Lou said:
Sorry dude, Schaub and Flacco are both average. The only thing Flacco is elite at is ruining his mouth about how elite he is.
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Flacco left Schaub in the dust after this year. Schaub couldn't win HFA with two games and played poorly in the post season. Flacco had 8 TDs and zero INT this post season. His team depended on him to make clutch throws and he delivered. Something us Texan fans can only dream of Schaub doing in the play offs.
 
bOODRO87 said:
Flacco left Schaub in the dust after this year. Schaub couldn't win HFA with two games and played poorly in the post season. Flacco had 8 TDs and zero INT this post season. His team depended on him to make clutch throws and he delivered. Something us Texan fans can only dream of Schaub doing in the play offs.
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Flacco wasn't even in a position to win HFA throughout the play-offs.

Up until week 12, I would bet the overwhelming opinion was that Schaub was better. That's most likely why he is in the pro bowl & Flacco isn't.

Flacco, in my mind, didn't pull ahead, until that Denver game in the divisional round of the play-offs. & he backed it up with his play in the AFC Championship game.

Until those two games, most "football people" wouldn't even touch the debate because it wasn't worth discussing. Who was the better of two bad QBs? Who really cares?
 
Fiddler said:
Flacco wasn't even in a position to win HFA throughout the play-offs.

Up until week 12, I would bet the overwhelming opinion was that Schaub was better. That's most likely why he is in the pro bowl & Flacco isn't.

Flacco, in my mind, didn't pull ahead, until that Denver game in the divisional round of the play-offs. & he backed it up with his play in the AFC Championship game.

Until those two games, most "football people" wouldn't even touch the debate because it wasn't worth discussing. Who was the better of two bad QBs? Who really cares?
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Just pointing out the fact that Matt had two chances to secure HFA and did not. Yes, this is a team sport, but Matt didn't help put his team in good positions to win. That's bad for ANY QB. I couldn't careless what our record was or what people thought before the post season. Playoffs is where you find out what kind of team you really have.

Flacco flourished in the big games. Schaub did not flourish in his big games.. multiple times. Big difference.
 
Big Lou said:
Sorry dude, Schaub and Flacco are both average. The only thing Flacco is elite at is ruining his mouth about how elite he is.
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this type of stuff proves you see things only in black and white. while neither schaub or flacco are elite, theres no way these guys are in the same category.. flacco is 3 years younger and has played in 12 playoff games and should be getting ready for his 2nd super bowl had lee evans not dropped a gimmie.. flacco is approaching that next level. the level between elite and good. guys like ben and eli are there. meanwhile schaub is trying his damndest to not drop from good to below average..

in 6 of his last 7 playoff games, flacco has posted great qb ratings, the only game he had a down was last years game against the texans.. there isnt even a comparison between the 2, using the eyeball test, when both qbs are on, they do different things, schaub plays great when the system is working, he does whats asked. flacco on the other hand is beating coverages, out throwing dbs, threading needles. escaping pressure, and just shredding secondaries... the guy has a much bigger arm than schaub and is far and wide the more mobile of the two... no comparison
 
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Premier said:
...flacco is 3 years younger and has played in 12 playoff games and should be getting ready for his 2nd super bowl had lee evans not dropped a gimmie..
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Does Schaub get any credit for the "had so-&-so not dropped..... " gimmies?
 
bOODRO87 said:
Just pointing out the fact that Matt had two chances to secure HFA and did not. Yes, this is a team sport, but Matt didn't help put his team in good positions to win. That's bad for ANY QB. I couldn't careless what our record was or what people thought before the post season. Playoffs is where you find out what kind of team you really have.

Flacco flourished in the big games. Schaub did not flourish in his big games.. multiple times. Big difference.
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This^
 
Premier said:
this type of stuff proves you see things only in black and white. while neither schaub or flacco are elite, theres no way these guys are in the same category.. flacco is 3 years younger and has played in 12 playoff games and should be getting ready for his 2nd super bowl had lee evans not dropped a gimmie.. flacco is approaching that next level. the level between elite and good. guys like ben and eli are there. meanwhile schaub is trying his damndest to not drop from good to below average..

in 6 of his last 7 playoff games, flacco has posted great qb ratings, the only game he had a down was last years game against the texans.. there isnt even a comparison between the 2, using the eyeball test, when both qbs are on, they do different things, schaub plays great when the system is working, he does whats asked. flacco on the other hand is beating coverages, out throwing dbs, threading needles. escaping pressure, and just shredding secondaries... the guy has a much bigger arm than schaub and is far and wide the more mobile of the two... no comparison
Click to expand...

And THIS^
 
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Premier said:
this type of stuff proves you see things only in black and white. while neither schaub or flacco are elite, theres no way these guys are in the same category.. flacco is 3 years younger and has played in 12 playoff games and should be getting ready for his 2nd super bowl had lee evans not dropped a gimmie.. flacco is approaching that next level. the level between elite and good. guys like ben and eli are there. meanwhile schaub is trying his damndest to not drop from good to below average..

in 6 of his last 7 playoff games, flacco has posted great qb ratings, the only game he had a down was last years game against the texans.. there isnt even a comparison between the 2, using the eyeball test, when both qbs are on, they do different things, schaub plays great when the system is working, he does whats asked. flacco on the other hand is beating coverages, out throwing dbs, threading needles. escaping pressure, and just shredding secondaries... the guy has a much bigger arm than schaub and is far and wide the more mobile of the two... no comparison
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:ohsnap:
 
handswarmer said:
I don't understand the constant barrage of "Houston players donn't get any media exposure"=> everytime I turned on NFL Net this season there was JJ Watt, Arian Foster and AJ...even Matt Schaub...Like Houston is small market?

Anyway, not everyone agrees that Flacco is better than Schaub; but I'll keep trying to convince them...
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Apparently you're right because folks are still going which I just don't get.

I can admit that I was someone who felt Schaub was a top ten quarterback. But how can one be top ten and not capable of making all the throws? How can one be top ten and disappear in prime time situations? How can one be top ten and not even be capable of putting the ball in the endzone consistently?

Flacco isn't perfect and maybe not 'elite' though I admit that term is overly abused. But his main issues go with the mental approach when under pressure. Umm...Schaub has that too. The difference is these playoffs I saw Flacco hurl a ball downfield with a defender hanging on him. I saw Schaub escape and throw it out of bounds. Big difference. One is looking to still make a play and the other is not. Flacco's vision stays wide encompassing the field while Schaubs seems to narrow. If he isn't throwing it away he is checking it down far short of the first down.

Flacco obviously can make all the throws. Schaub can not and even some that he toss out there he puts too much air under the ball giving the defense a chance to react. So you have more positives in the way of Flacco than Schaub especially in the playoffs. Not even sure where the arguement can stand. Doesn't mean Schaub is a bad quarterback but sure as heck isn't great either. Flacco doesn't have to be elite to be better than Schaub but to me he is at least in that next tier behind the top tier guys and he's young and climbing. Schaub? Well...what we see MAY be what we get.
 
bOODRO87 said:
Just pointing out the fact that Matt had two chances to secure HFA and did not. Yes, this is a team sport, but Matt didn't help put his team in good positions to win. That's bad for ANY QB. I couldn't careless what our record was or what people thought before the post season. Playoffs is where you find out what kind of team you really have.

Flacco flourished in the big games. Schaub did not flourish in his big games.. multiple times. Big difference.
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great post.

matt sucks physically, one would think he would make for it in the intangible, leadership, poise, decision making area.

The problem is, matt also sucks at those areas.

Yet houston fans and the front office find it so hard to move on from him. Its as if its some impossibility to find someone better than a guy who sucks physically and mentally.
 
Jules Winnfield said:
great post.

matt sucks physically, one would think he would make for it in the intangible, leadership, poise, decision making area.

The problem is, matt also sucks at those areas.

Yet houston fans and the front office find it so hard to move on from him. Its as if its some impossibility to find someone better than a guy who sucks physically and mentally.
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Who is a Free Agent or draft pick that is better than Schaub right now for the 2013 season? Somone who could put them ina position to win in 2013 in the Playoffs?
 
ckhouston said:
FA market is thin beyond Flacco.

But what if the Seahawks release Flynn?

I would bring him in on a one year deal and let him compete and see if a long term deal was worth it. But, other teams like KC, AZ, etc would probably give him a long term deal up front.

I also think Alex Smith would be an upgrade.
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Yeah dude, we just gave Schaub a big contract, and now we're gonna sign Alex Smith for possibly more.

Glimpse reality much?
 
ckhouston said:
Which one gets you to the SB?

McNair needs to step up and insist on excellence.
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Remind me how many Super Bowls Alex Smith has gotten to?

He couldn't get to one with a better D and a running game just as good as ours in 2011, what makes you think he can do it with us?

And with what money would McNair sign him?

Your visions are nothing but dreary fantasy.
 
ckhouston said:
FA market is thin beyond Flacco.

But what if the Seahawks release Flynn?

I would bring him in on a one year deal and let him compete and see if a long term deal was worth it. But, other teams like KC, AZ, etc would probably give him a long term deal up front.

I also think Alex Smith would be an upgrade.
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I like where you're going with Flynn. I think Smith might be a step to the side and a half step up more than anything else. I think we should look at a 3rd and a 5th pick for Kirk Cousins from the Skins. Mobile, looked great in action, and Shanny's system in DC is like Kubes' system down here.
 
Never thought there'd be a day when knee-jerks would be clammoring for Alex Smith. lol

Schaub ain't much and, unfortunately, he'll be here at least another 2 years. Anyone that mentions trading, cutting or benching him are my definition of a knee-jerker. One that refuses to be realistic. Or they're just plain dumb.
 
HOU-TEX said:
Never thought there'd be a day when knee-jerks would be clammoring for Alex Smith. lol

Schaub ain't much and, unfortunately, he'll be here at least another 2 years. Anyone that mentions trading, cutting or benching him are my definition of a knee-jerker. One that refuses to be realistic. Or they're just plain dumb.
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^^^This

Matt's been more productive than those big armed, mobile QBs. His biggest problem has been his performance in "big" games. The same issue Matt Ryan has been struggling with until now, He didn't win in 2008, 2010, or 2011.

Schaub isn't the QB I want, but I'm not convinced he can't take us to & win the Super Bowl. I also believe our chances are better with Schaub than any reasonable replacement.
 
This was in the Chronicle four days ago. I wonder why it wasn't posted here. Maybe because it's the Chronicle??

Flacco is an inch taller than Schaub – 6-6 to 6-5 - but three pounds lighter – 232 to 235. He has been more durable in his career, but Schaub showed this season he could get up from a hit, too. He significantly outplayed Flacco in their head-to-head meeting and, while Schaub stumbled badly in December, so did Flacco.

But Flacco is something of a Mr. January, winning nine games in the postseason. That’s eight more than Schaub has won despite being in the league four seasons longer. It would indicate Flacco has the tougher mental makeup, but it also means he has been on much better teams in Baltimore than Schaub in Houston. The Ravens have made the playoffs all five seasons Flacco has been in the league. The Texans have advanced twice.
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Here's another one from the 4th as well.

When it looked as if they might again fall short, they switched offensive coordinators, reemphasizing the running game, taking pressure off Flacco to win games with his arm.

They later realigned the offensive line, again taking pressure off Flacco by giving him more protection.

They also had him surrounded with playmakers such as Anquan Boldin, Torrey Smith, David Pitta and Ray Rice. They even used their fullbacks in the running and passing game.
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Like me he remembers the change in OC was to take the ball out of Flacco's hand & put it in Ray Rice's hands, that was the idea. Didn't work out that way, but at the time, that's what the talking heads were saying & the general consensus.
 
thunderkyss said:
This was in the Chronicle four days ago. I wonder why it wasn't posted here. Maybe because it's the Chronicle??

​

Here's another one from the 4th as well.

​

Like me he remembers the change in OC was to take the ball out of Flacco's hand & put it in Ray Rice's hands, that was the idea. Didn't work out that way, but at the time, that's what the talking heads were saying & the general consensus.
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Who is a better RB? Rice or Foster

Who is a beter WR? Smith or AJ?

Who is a better TE? Pitta/Dickson or Graham/Daniels?

Who had a better defense? Baltimore or Houston?

Re-emphasizing the running game was not abandoning it. Cadwells play calling was exceptional compared to Cameron's; it was the same offense; they just ran the same plays in adifferent sequence, they never stopped attacking whereas Cam would pull the foot off the gas when they had a lead...
 
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