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sandman said:
Help me out here. Pro Football Reference has him giving up 3 completions over the last 5 games where he played 100% of the defensive snaps. Granted, one was a 64 yard TD against Cincy, but the others were 16 yards and 9 yards. He wasn't even targeted in the Cards game.

Outside of that one play in Cincy and a pretty bad game against Atlanta, he's given up 4 receptions for 52 yards and no TD's in 8 games.

So where is he being targeted and exposed? Honest question.
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The TD pass to Rondale Moore was on Pitre too… Stingley was in trail position underneath..& probably coulda been a little tighter to Moore to maybe get his hands on him & reroute him a little bit for Pitre, but he slipped in his transition & his main responsibility is in front of him. Either way, Pitre was supposed to be over the top there and he failed to get there in time, resulting in the TD in the cards game. So that’s 2 games in a row where Pitre has been targeted & failed to get over the top which has resulted in 2 TD’s.

Can’t really blame him for the 1 in Cincy, that was a hole-shot dart thrown by Burrow..plus that’s where the holes in that coverage are, but the one against the cards, Pitre’s gotta do better than that.
 
Mr teX said:
The TD pass to Rondale Moore was on Pitre too… Stingley was in trail position underneath..& probably coulda been a little tighter to Moore to maybe get his hands on him & reroute him a little bit for Pitre, but he slipped in his transition & his main responsibility is in front of him. Either way, Pitre was supposed to be over the top there and he failed to get there in time, resulting in the TD in the cards game. So that’s 2 games in a row where Pitre has been targeted & failed to get over the top which has resulted in 2 TD’s.

Can’t really blame him for the 1 in Cincy, that was a hole-shot dart thrown by Burrow..plus that’s where the holes in that coverage are, but the one against the cards, Pitre’s gotta do better than that.
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Yes! THAT!
 
leebigeztx said:
Yep, good tacklers don't dive with their head down, even smaller guys. You see it, accelerate your feet and wrap or gator roll. See Winnfield sr who was 5'7 ish and one of the best tacklers ever.
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Like I was alluding to, he was doing this in college and last year as well. Thus the reason why I said, what you did in college won’t work in the NFL. He’s diving at their ankles.
 
Mr teX said:
yeah, Pitre’s been exposed a bit this year in coverage. Some of it is him, some of it is he’s playing a little out of position in Meco’s scheme. He’s a box safety that has been forced to play back more with the injury to Ward. Still like him as part of our future, but he’s gonna need a Micah Hyde type true free safety back there with him to cover up for him at times to maximize his effectiveness.

As for WAJ, been watching him almost exclusively all season on defense, he’s been making plays like he did in the cards game all season for the Texans, it’s just this game a few of them showed up in the box score is all.

I spoke to this a few posts upthread, but what I think was going on with him early in the season is him being such a high motor guy, Meco was playing him too many snaps & he was just gassed late in games ..which in turn left him not as effective late;

These last few games however, I’ve noticed Sanders and another guy spelling him & Greenard a little more & it has resulted in him & the pass rush being a little fresher down the stretch when the defense & pass rush has had to step up & get critical stops…which they have.

But too, this is also that time of the year. We’re headed into week 12, college football season would be over or nearly over for most of these rookies & a lot of them either hit a wall in the NFL or they begin to separate themselves as true studs in development. This is about when JJ started putting it together his rookie year as well.
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Yeah, it would be nice to have a rotation of competent guys. That's why I like the Sanders pick up, don't know whats going to with Horton. I think they reported something about something personal. I saw a lot of hand fighting from him last week that was pretty good. Also saw him get upfield then flatten out which was also good.
 
Mr teX said:
The TD pass to Rondale Moore was on Pitre too… Stingley was in trail position underneath..& probably coulda been a little tighter to Moore to maybe get his hands on him & reroute him a little bit for Pitre, but he slipped in his transition & his main responsibility is in front of him. Either way, Pitre was supposed to be over the top there and he failed to get there in time, resulting in the TD in the cards game. So that’s 2 games in a row where Pitre has been targeted & failed to get over the top which has resulted in 2 TD’s.

Can’t really blame him for the 1 in Cincy, that was a hole-shot dart thrown by Burrow..plus that’s where the holes in that coverage are, but the one against the cards, Pitre’s gotta do better than that.
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The people who track official stats for the NFL disagree with you.

#3 drafted player known for his superb man coverage skills is actually the targeted defensive player but because he didn't have tight enough coverage, it's Pitre's fault in a help position that there was a TD on the play? Or are you saying that this was zone coverage and Stingley simply passed the receiver along for Pitre to cover and he didn't? Because it looked like man coverage and Stingley failed to transition. Stingley does his job, this isn't a conversation.

Again, honest questions because we seem to be using the word "targeted" in a way that it was not intended.
 
sandman said:
The people who track official stats for the NFL disagree with you.

#3 drafted player known for his superb man coverage skills is actually the targeted defensive player but because he didn't have tight enough coverage, it's Pitre's fault in a help position that there was a TD on the play? Or are you saying that this was zone coverage and Stingley simply passed the receiver along for Pitre to cover and he didn't? Because it looked like man coverage and Stingley failed to transition. Stingley does his job, this isn't a conversation.

Again, honest questions because we seem to be using the word "targeted" in a way that it was not intended.
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Most teams play man coverage less than 30% of the time. What it appears TO ME on that play is the Texans disguised in a cover 2 shell pre snap and post snap flipped to a cover 3 and as you know, Both of those are zone coverages. What tells me this? 1, The other safety opposite Pitre drops down right as the ball is snapped to cover the TE on his side…this is why he’s no where close in chase when the ball is thrown and subsequently caught downfield on that play. 2, every db WHO IS back there & in chase mode as the ball is being caught dropped straight back…So that was Nelson on his side who has a deep 3rd, Pitre has the deep middle and Stingley has deep 3rd on his side….. Classic cover 3 zone there….. Which typically has it where the CB’s have everything deep & just inside the numbers on out to the sideline & the safety who is not covering anyone at the outset has everything deep between the numbers.

Now From the replay, Moore ran some sort of skinny post route with a double move/rocker step like 10-15 yards that Stingley did bite on a little, but he kinda had to honor it b/c it was in his zone & he had no help….he was reacting to come up to defend that and/or reroute the WR tried transitioning out of it once he saw Moore angle inside & just lost his footing. If Moore had continued outside and the ball was thrown..yeah that’s all on Stingley..but that’s not where the ball was caught & that’s not what happened.

Instead Moore angled inside on the post right into Pitre’s deep middle zone…Pitre picks him up……flat footed (bad technique) & Moore just runs right by him. Aside from that, Moore caught the ball WELL INSIDE of the numbers…& thereby out of Stingley’s zone…damn near on the hash marks in the middle of the field….The only reason it wasn’t caught there is b/c of Murray’s throw..which was thrown a little to the outside of them.

ALL OF THAT TECHNICAL MUMBO JUMBO ASIDE….1st rule of playing safety…….don’t let anyone get behind you b/c you’re the last line of defense…& Pitre failed hard there.

Had he got over the top there instead of Moore just running right by him, Murray probably doesn’t even throw that ball.
 
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Mr teX said:
Instead Moore angled inside on the post right into Pitre’s deep middle zone…Pitre picks him up……flat footed (bad technique) & Moore just runs right by him. Aside from that, Moore caught the ball WELL INSIDE of the numbers…& thereby out of Stingley’s zone…damn near on the hash marks in the middle of the field….The only reason it wasn’t caught there is b/c of Murray’s throw..which was thrown a little to the outside of them.

ALL OF THAT TECHNICAL MUMBO JUMBO ASIDE….1st rule of playing safety…….don’t let anyone get behind you b/c you’re the last line of defense…& Pitre failed hard there.
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These things stood out when I watched the replay. IMO, even if Stingley held his footing he would have been running with Moore but on Moore's outside shoulder. Any ball thrown to Moore's inside would have been extremely difficult for Stingley to defend. And as you stated that is where Pitre should have been protecting.
 
KoolAid Sipper said:
These things stood out when I watched the replay. IMO, even if Stingley held his footing he would have been running with Moore but on Moore's outside shoulder. Any ball thrown to Moore's inside would have been extremely difficult for Stingley to defend. And as you stated that is where Pitre should have been protecting.
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yeah, Stingley possibly could’ve slowed up Moore for Pitre if he had been able to get his hands on Moore and reroute him a little on the double move and possibly hand him off to Pitre A LITTLE better, but it’s ultimately still Pitre’s responsibility to keep Moore in front of him.

Adam Archuleta correctly pointed out that Pitre had his eyes in the backfield..that’s how he got caught flat footed when Moore got up on and ran right by him.

2, you can just tell by how hard Pitre was running after Moore once the ball got in the air. Guys who feel they’re beat are busting ass trying to get back and recover Like Pitre was on that play. Stingley on the other hand was in a slow jog…indicating that it’s a pass being thrown out of his zoned area..
 
Mr teX said:
yeah, Stingley possibly could’ve slowed up Moore for Pitre if he had been able to get his hands on Moore and reroute him a little on the double move and possibly hand him off to Pitre A LITTLE better, but it’s ultimately still Pitre’s responsibility to keep Moore in front of him.

Adam Archuleta correctly pointed out that Pitre had his eyes in the backfield..that’s how he got caught flat footed when Moore got up on and ran right by him.

2, you can just tell by how hard Pitre was running after Moore once the ball got in the air. Guys who feel they’re beat are busting ass trying to get back and recover Like Pitre was on that play. Stingley on the other hand was in a slow jog…indicating that it’s a pass being thrown out of his zoned area..
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Curious as to why Stingley was in a slow jog in the direction of where the ball went? In his area or not he should have sped to that area to assist.
 
badboy said:
Curious as to why Stingley was in a slow jog in the direction of where the ball went? In his area or not he should have sped to that area to assist.
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part of it was b/c it was out of his zone, part of it was b/c he was out of the play period. Even had he been running as fast as he could’ve, there was no possibility of him catching Pitre/Moore to assist in any manner. Hell, Pitre was about 2 yards behind Moore chasing and was done. Stingley was about 5 yds behind both. There was just no point. Pitre was the only guy even remotely close to doing anything.
 
Mr teX said:
part of it was b/c it was out of his zone, part of it was b/c he was out of the play period. Even had he been running as fast as he could’ve, there was no possibility of him catching Pitre/Moore to assist in any manner. Hell, Pitre was about 2 yards behind Moore chasing and was done. Stingley was about 5 yds behind both. There was just no point. Pitre was the only guy even remotely close to doing anything.
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So.. if Moore caught ball and fumbled it Pitre couldn't have picked it up and used Stingley to block?
 
badboy said:
So.. if Moore caught ball and fumbled it Pitre couldn't have picked it up and used Stingley to block?
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Moore caught the ball literally 1 step from the end zone & Pitre was beaten so badly he had no shot to do anything to Moore before he crossed into the end zone.
 
Mr teX said:
yeah, Stingley possibly could’ve slowed up Moore for Pitre if he had been able to get his hands on Moore and reroute him a little on the double move and possibly hand him off to Pitre A LITTLE better, but it’s ultimately still Pitre’s responsibility to keep Moore in front of him.

Adam Archuleta correctly pointed out that Pitre had his eyes in the backfield..that’s how he got caught flat footed when Moore got up on and ran right by him.

2, you can just tell by how hard Pitre was running after Moore once the ball got in the air. Guys who feel they’re beat are busting ass trying to get back and recover Like Pitre was on that play. Stingley on the other hand was in a slow jog…indicating that it’s a pass being thrown out of his zoned area..
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The week before, Stingley had the teaser route in the flat, but again, Pitre wasn't over the top. The cover 3 is pretty much the same as the cover 2 and Pitre wasn't on the roof. It's not like there was a post or flag in front of him. He played better as a slot corner ish at Baylor. Being said, Ward had similar struggles in his early years in SF.
 
leebigeztx said:
The week before, Stingley had the teaser route in the flat, but again, Pitre wasn't over the top. The cover 3 is pretty much the same as the cover 2 and Pitre wasn't on the roof. It's not like there was a post or flag in front of him. He played better as a slot corner ish at Baylor. Being said, Ward had similar struggles in his early years in SF.
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Yeah b/c the other WR’s for the cards ran shorter routes…no other WR but Moore was anywhere close to breaching Pitre’s zone.
 
I heard somewhere that Travon Walker had a good game last week.

I think he's going to be a good player, far from a bust. But I wonder what his stats are like this year vs WAj's
 
Last week he looked amazing. Don't care what the previous pass rush win rates stats say...

Against the Broncos he was more explosive and more refined with his rushes.

Run defense was never a question. He's elite against the run...and if he keeps improving that pass rush he'll be elite there too.

Pick is turning out pretty good. In Demeco I trust :texflag:
 
Mollywhopper said:
Absolutely not, in fact.

As good as he's played so far I still feel like Carter is a ticking time bomb, and if/when both of these guys get the real bag in a few years I'll take the kid with not only superstar talent but psycho work ethic.
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And that stat tweet didn't mention blocked punts, blocked FG's or PD's. How many of those does Carter have?
 
Texansballer74 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1733294430042333299
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I would because it would have taken less to trade for Carter and second it's harder to find an interior pass rusher. This guy's comparing apples to oranges since they don't play the same position. BTW, with this said at the time with his work ethic and leadership qualities WA was the correct call at that time. A tone setter for the future of the franchise.
 
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Texansballer74 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1733294430042333299
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Both look great players but it’d be a gamble to trade what’s working here for what’s working somewhere else. Carter is a DT, so you can’t take anything away from the fact that it’s impressive to be putting up those stats from that position.

I keep going back and forth in my mind about draft priorities and no matter what I see elsewhere that could be improved, I can’t help coming back to the idea of adding more premier talent to DeMeco’s front 7 and being excited at the prospect of just how good that could be to watch.
 
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