Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
Trade: Samkon Gado for Vernand Morency
- Thread starter BeerFan
- Start date
R
real
Guest
texan279 said:
What about the regular season ?
powerfuldragon
Enchilada Aficionado.
The Packers are giving up on the athletically gifted Samkon Gado because they feel they need someone who can take some of the load off starter Ahman Green. Because neither Gado nor backup Noah Herron is quick enough to excel as a pass catcher, Vernand Morency, should be able to take on some of the load on passing downs.
-- Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
-- Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
I've had this deja vu feeling for awhile but don't know the right way to verbalize it. I'm reminded of the run and shoot guys that were married to the system, had a point to prove. Sure a fullback or a tight end would be nice in certain situations but then it would'nt be pure run and shoot, it would contaminate the scheme. We are appearing to want to try and prove to the world we can have a successful running game with a 6th round pick and a undrafted free agent. It appears to be another scheme of egos. I really hope not.
Wolf
100% Texan
since yesterday the thread was like the autobahn and honestly after 8 pages, I couldn't keep up with this..
I dont' know much about Gado except for stats.. guys at work hated the move.. they do the fantasy football thing and yes I know it is different,but all I heard about was Gato only had one game that was worth a flip and everyone jumped on the bandwagon.
that is what they were talking about..
For me I haven't seen him play.. I almost feel that Kubiak is making a point of getting "HIS" guys in his system..
I dont' know much about Gado except for stats.. guys at work hated the move.. they do the fantasy football thing and yes I know it is different,but all I heard about was Gato only had one game that was worth a flip and everyone jumped on the bandwagon.
that is what they were talking about..
For me I haven't seen him play.. I almost feel that Kubiak is making a point of getting "HIS" guys in his system..
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
dabeene1 said:
After proof of trolldom the rest of the post became worthless. The clip posted earlier in the thread shows Gado outrunning a DB. Odds are against this being a monumental trade for either team but ... oh nevermind ... continue on.
Houston_Fanatic
Maximum
Well, dabeene1 - you will get the whole gamut of opinions about Morency here from texan279 who is really upset we traded him and thought he wasn't given a fair chance to those that really don't think it was a big loss, but wish him well.
Morency has potential and perhaps he will be able to develop to his full potential in GB. Or he could remain a backup - time will tell.
Morency has potential and perhaps he will be able to develop to his full potential in GB. Or he could remain a backup - time will tell.
honestly dabeene.. say what ya will about Gado.. I dont really care if the only rock he was capable of holding last season was Favre's superbowl ring while he took a shower.. fact of the matter is that Kubiak wanted Gado, and Kubiaks a smart guy.
Gado's performance last season is a nice bonus.. but the fact that Kubiak wanted him tells me alot more about Gado than whatever numbers you can dig up, or eyewitness accounts that the Green Bay fans can give.
Kubiak has been the mastermind behind a prolific running game for nigh on a decade, and if he says Gado can play.. ill give him the benefit of the doubt.
heh.. im gonna need vasoline and a crowbar to pry my lips from kubes butt after this post.
Gado's performance last season is a nice bonus.. but the fact that Kubiak wanted him tells me alot more about Gado than whatever numbers you can dig up, or eyewitness accounts that the Green Bay fans can give.
Kubiak has been the mastermind behind a prolific running game for nigh on a decade, and if he says Gado can play.. ill give him the benefit of the doubt.
heh.. im gonna need vasoline and a crowbar to pry my lips from kubes butt after this post.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
dabeene1 said:
At one point in the run McQ is almost even with him and then Gado pulls away. By no means is he the fastest back in the league but he is far faster than you make out with a statement like he will not outrun anyone. He does have better speed than many NFL RB's especially in comparison to interior RB's. Like I said, not likely to light up the league but a solid interior runner with the potential for some good open field runs.
Astonishment
Practice Squad
There seems to be allot of misconceptions here about Gato's game. If you don't mind I will try to give you a scouting report from a Packer's fan side. Hopefully someone could return the favor and do the same with Morency, because we seem to have the same misconception problem with someone calling Morency a scat back than he is a slower straight-line runner.
Overview:
Gato was definitely a bright spot on an otherwise dark season for the Packers last year. After Ahman Green and Najeh Davenport had season ending injuries the Packers were forced to turn to Favre to with offense, and the result was terrible (with an Eagle-type run to pass ratio)...until they played Gato. Part was an offensive line that improved throughout the year, part was the opposing teams focus shift to forcing Favre into mistakes, and part was Gato. In the end it is still in doubt how much was the first two factors and how much was Gato.
The part of Gato that is undisputable is that he is a great, great person and a really hard worker. However he was never a starter at any point in his short career until he filled in as the Packers 5th running back last season (yes 5 is correct - Green, Davenport, Fischer, and Lee were all tried before Gato). At some point there is a reason he has always been a backup.
Positives:
Gato is a very smart player, and as mentioned before a very hard worker. Once he gets into the open he has good, but not great open field speed. He won't pull away from many players, but he won't get caught from behind either. He is very patient and has a no-nonsense type approach to running. He won't do much dancing. Gato really accels by following his lead blocker especially on off-tackle and counter running plays. Gato will also play within the scheme - if the hole is supposed to be in gap "A", Gato will hit gap "A".
Negatives:
In spite of Gato's good open field speed, he has below average acceleration. As a defender if you want to stop Gato, just force him to make a cut. 1/2 the time he will go down by himself, the other half the time the blockers are already half way down the field by the time he gets out of the cut. All right that was an exaggeration, but his ability to make cuts is not pretty. It is true that Gato emulates Okoeye, but he will never push a pile like Okoeye did nor does he even fall forward like Dayne does. This isn't a knock on Gato's heart, but he rarely wins in trying to push for that extra inch. As good as he is off tackle he struggles on toss's and sweeps (because of his lack of cutting ability - if your blocking is good enough so he can round out into a turn he will do great), and dives and delays (because of he lack of acceleration and power - again give him some blocking and he is fine if he can get going). In the end the reason Gato is no longer a Packer is because his skill set is completely counter to a zone blocking running back. He waits to long to make his decisions, doesn't have the ability to make the quick cut required, and doesn't hit the hole the hole fast enough due to his patient style/lack of acceleration.
Conclusion:
Even though the negative section is longer, it doesn't mean Gato is a bad back in fact it is quite the opposite. He is a good player and a great teammate, but he shouldn't be a starter and in a perfect world is your 3rd string running back. In a man-on-man blocking style he can even be a good spot starter, but is terrible in the zone blocking scheme. If your coach uses him right he can be a productive player for you.
Overview:
Gato was definitely a bright spot on an otherwise dark season for the Packers last year. After Ahman Green and Najeh Davenport had season ending injuries the Packers were forced to turn to Favre to with offense, and the result was terrible (with an Eagle-type run to pass ratio)...until they played Gato. Part was an offensive line that improved throughout the year, part was the opposing teams focus shift to forcing Favre into mistakes, and part was Gato. In the end it is still in doubt how much was the first two factors and how much was Gato.
The part of Gato that is undisputable is that he is a great, great person and a really hard worker. However he was never a starter at any point in his short career until he filled in as the Packers 5th running back last season (yes 5 is correct - Green, Davenport, Fischer, and Lee were all tried before Gato). At some point there is a reason he has always been a backup.
Positives:
Gato is a very smart player, and as mentioned before a very hard worker. Once he gets into the open he has good, but not great open field speed. He won't pull away from many players, but he won't get caught from behind either. He is very patient and has a no-nonsense type approach to running. He won't do much dancing. Gato really accels by following his lead blocker especially on off-tackle and counter running plays. Gato will also play within the scheme - if the hole is supposed to be in gap "A", Gato will hit gap "A".
Negatives:
In spite of Gato's good open field speed, he has below average acceleration. As a defender if you want to stop Gato, just force him to make a cut. 1/2 the time he will go down by himself, the other half the time the blockers are already half way down the field by the time he gets out of the cut. All right that was an exaggeration, but his ability to make cuts is not pretty. It is true that Gato emulates Okoeye, but he will never push a pile like Okoeye did nor does he even fall forward like Dayne does. This isn't a knock on Gato's heart, but he rarely wins in trying to push for that extra inch. As good as he is off tackle he struggles on toss's and sweeps (because of his lack of cutting ability - if your blocking is good enough so he can round out into a turn he will do great), and dives and delays (because of he lack of acceleration and power - again give him some blocking and he is fine if he can get going). In the end the reason Gato is no longer a Packer is because his skill set is completely counter to a zone blocking running back. He waits to long to make his decisions, doesn't have the ability to make the quick cut required, and doesn't hit the hole the hole fast enough due to his patient style/lack of acceleration.
Conclusion:
Even though the negative section is longer, it doesn't mean Gato is a bad back in fact it is quite the opposite. He is a good player and a great teammate, but he shouldn't be a starter and in a perfect world is your 3rd string running back. In a man-on-man blocking style he can even be a good spot starter, but is terrible in the zone blocking scheme. If your coach uses him right he can be a productive player for you.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
Morency is fast in every way. Not Reggie Bush fast, of course, but he is fast. If he doesn't dance around too much and if he does a good job in pass protection, which he has done and then reverted back to not doing it, he will be good--maybe very good. He's also big enough, but not what you'd call a big back. I'm not happy about losing him at all, but I'll have to see how things go. I don't know about your RB situation in GB, but Morrency could be a starter. I believe he will be by next year, unless you've got somebody real special that I'm forgetting about.
Others will have more to say about Morrency.
Others will have more to say about Morrency.
R
real
Guest
HJam72 said:
What about Amahn Green ?
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
HJam72 said:Beets me.
I knew I was probably forgetting somebody obvious.
Not to knock on the Pack, but thier line is worse off than ours is/was. They've got 2 or 3 rooks starting on the line this year. I don't think it matters who's in the backfield, they're going to get put on the ground quickly.
R
real
Guest
HOU-TEX said:Not to knock on the Pack, but thier line is worse off than ours is/was. They've got 2 or 3 rooks starting on the line this year. I don't think it matters who's in the backfield, they're going to get put on the ground quickly.
I think both starting gaurds, and their Center are new...Im not sure if they are all rookies though...but thats a good point....
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
xtruroyaltyx said:
According to thier DC, the 2 guards are rooks. The center is a 3 year.
http://www.packers.com/team/depth_chart/
Astonishment
Practice Squad
Both starting guards are rookies, but our center started half of last year.xtruroyaltyx said:
At least we are setting up a stable of cheap backups for the future. A true starter would be nice, but we can address that in the Draft or Free Agency.
Next years depth chart:
Adrian Peterson - stud RB or Free Agent Signing
Dayne - semi-cheap backup
Gado - cheap backup
Lundy - Cheap backup
Next years depth chart:
Adrian Peterson - stud RB or Free Agent Signing
Dayne - semi-cheap backup
Gado - cheap backup
Lundy - Cheap backup
michaelm
vox nihili
HOU-TEX said:Not to knock on the Pack, but thier line is worse off than ours is/was. They've got 2 or 3 rooks starting on the line this year. I don't think it matters who's in the backfield, they're going to get put on the ground quickly.
Didn't Ahman Green bust a hundred yards last week? Against a very stout Bears defense...
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
michaelm said:
By George! You're correct. I should've checked first.
http://www.packers.com/team/stats/2006/2006week1.pdf
There line is still bad though.
Xman said:
Dayne, Gado, & Lundy can very well turn out to be starting quality studs before this is all over.
It's hard to remember, but people weren't always infatuated with Marshall Faulk, TikiBarber, and even Larry Johnson was being called a girl, and a baby by his coach.....
And who is Willie Parker again??
Astonishment
Practice Squad
This is a very good point, the Packers also got Ahman Green for a corner who was out of the league the next year. Good running backs seem to be diamonds in the rough more than other positions - Thurman Thomas and Terrell Davis are a couple more examples.thunderkyss said:
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
Divebomb said:
well there was a general consensus among this MB(including me) that he was our best overall RB- has speed, was doing what kubiak tells him-not dancing(also what kind of message is that to be sending out to other players-morency had done what he had been told but was still gotten rid of), could pass block...etc. just because we couldnt run last week-due to philly's d-line overpowering our o-line (not because he played 'crap') you shouldn't get rid of arguably your best RB because of it...it reeks of a desperation move despite kubiak saying the trade happened '5 minutes b4 the game'
gado, from what i saw of him last year, is honest but limited...hes not fast on film and his moves are limited...im trying to make sense of the move but i just dont see it...plus im down already from last weekend
and my optimism is fading fast....to me it looks like vernand was let go instead of lundy because lundy was kubiak's pick and not because lundy was better than him and that stuff kinda makes me disillusioned and makes me wonder if kubiak is as great a coach as everybody says...........or maybe im just waaaaaay overreacting
michaelm
vox nihili
Maddict5 said:well there was a general consensus among this MB(including me) that he was our best overall RB- has speed, was doing what kubiak tells him-not dancing(also what kind of message is that to be sending out to other players-morency had done what he had been told but was still gotten rid of), could pass block...etc. just because we couldnt run last week-due to philly's d-line overpowering our o-line (not because he played 'crap') you shouldn't get rid of arguably your best RB because of it...it reeks of a desperation move despite kubiak saying the trade happened '5 minutes b4 the game'
gado, from what i saw of him last year, is honest but limited...hes not fast on film and his moves are limited...im trying to make sense of the move but i just dont see it...plus im down already from last weekend
Couple of points.
1. Do you really think the coaching staff said "Damn, we couldn't run against the Eagles, let's trade Morency!" ?
Come on, man. Give them more credit than that. They didn't base this move on just whatever limited action Morency had in one game... your post reeks of over reaction.
2. Morency may well have been our best back ( I thought so), but that doesn't mean that:
A) he was very good at all
or
B) Gado isn't better.
3. Maybe out of the two of them, the Texans would have preferred to trade Lundy, but GB didn't want him, who knows.
And one last thing. What the hell has Kubiak ever done or said to make you doubt that he's telling the truth about when the trade happened. Because you don't approve of the trade?
It's pretty easy to call someone that you've never met a liar from behind a computer monitor I guess.
*edit* Yes, I do believe you are waaaaay over reacting. But you can take solice in the fact that you're far from alone.
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
michaelm said:Couple of points.
1. Do you really think the coaching staff said "Damn, we couldn't run against the Eagles, let's trade Morency!" ?
Come on, man. Give them more credit than that. They didn't base this move on just whatever limited action Morency had in one game... your post reeks of over reaction.
2. Morency may well have been our best back ( I thought so), but that doesn't mean that:
A) he was very good at all
or
B) Gado isn't better.
3. Maybe out of the two of them, the Texans would have preferred to trade Lundy, but GB didn't want him, who knows.
And one last thing. What the hell has Kubiak ever done or said to make you doubt that he's telling the truth about when the trade happened. Because you don't approve of the trade?
It's pretty easy to call someone that you've never met a liar from behind a computer monitor I guess.
*edit* Yes, I do believe you are waaaaay over reacting. But you can take solice in the fact that you're far from alone.
a few replies:
obviously i dont think their convo went like you said but i think maybe they felt like they had to do something to change it and chose to get rid of morency because he wasn't theirs....and lundy was which is why your no. 3 wasnt considered
to me..morency is a shiftier, faster rb than gado so to me he is a better rb..moreso when its reported that gado wasnt thriving in the ZBS
and sorry..but i think in the run up to his 1st ever competitive game kubiak's focus would be on philly and not on a trade...
put it like this- if kubiak is telling the truth ie-he was traded b4 the philly game...why was he played at all(i know it was limited carries but still)...wouldn't that be putting himself in a very awkward situation- what would he do if morency broke another long td run....sorry if you've unwaivering faith in him but i dont buy it at all
michaelm
vox nihili
You're just speculating, and I'd be speculating if I said that I knew you were wrong, but it seems pretty obvious which RB they thought was better by virtue of the depth chart that they established.Maddict5 said:
I heard the thing about the ZBS too, but I heard today on 610 that Sherman said that we use (at times)the same blocking scheme that was used on Gado's 65yd TD last year.Maddict5 said:
I agree that his focus would be on the game, but teams make roster moves and trades all the time between games. He may have given his approval of the trade hours or even days in advance of the trade being finalized. Once he gave his go ahead, the rest of the deal would have been taken care of by Rick Smith. It's not like GK was on his cell phone with the Packers in the locker room while he was giving his pregame speech...Maddict5 said:
I agree with you here, but there weren't really a bunch of better options on the bench, plus, as you said, he was trying to win the game, not trying to avoid the potential of looking bad if Morency broke a run. Also, I don't know if I'd say I have unwavering faith in him, but he has been way more straight forward and truthful than just about any coach I have ever seen, and I can't think of any good reason for him to lie about this.Maddict5 said:
I think in the preseason Morency looked great, I do not practice with the team and I am not aware of what plays have been called and how he graded out. What if he had those great runs but had three or four screw ups. We do not know the inside story if their is one. Maybe Sherman feels that Gado is the style of back we need, he is the assistant head coach!!! I do know Kubiak seemed really excited after practice. I guess we will see!
GP
Go Texans!
Is it possible that Gado is a little bit more gritty and hard-nosed than Morency?
Could it be that Kubiak and Sherman feel that we need Domanick Davis' running style, which is less finesse (as we see in Morency) and more bulldog (like we saw in Domanick)?
I think this could be good thing.
Could it be that Kubiak and Sherman feel that we need Domanick Davis' running style, which is less finesse (as we see in Morency) and more bulldog (like we saw in Domanick)?
I think this could be good thing.
PapaL
Loose Screw
Well I must say I am excited to see our stable of RBs this week, regardless of who is on the actual roster come sunday. Pretty sure we'll see Jane - I mean Dayne in on Bronco formations, Gado in on Packer formations, and Lundy running in and out all game long. Don't care who is successful as long as we do well. (Thats my positive thought of the day)
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
Grid said:
Ive been chastising Morency for his tripping for 2 years.. so youre barkin up the wrong tree chief.
i spent, literally, 5 minutes searching3 weeks ago-
Grid said:
and to whoever said it-gado doesnt have homerun speed- more like DD speed...look at any film from last year..im not saying hes useless but dont make stuff up
basically thats what ive said in my last few posts-he was getting it and was our best rb.....
The reason you didnt find anything is because I said the last two years, not the last 6 months. The forums only go back to this years draft.
I, like everyone else, liked what I saw out of Morency this offseason. But im not such a fool that I think we cant do without him. And im not so ignorant that I think he was invaluable to the team.
Quit talking out your ***.. I suppose you sit back on the weekends and watch film of Green Bay?
Why am I defending myself? Unless you are blind or stupid, you know that Morency had an issue staying on his feet.
I, like everyone else, liked what I saw out of Morency this offseason. But im not such a fool that I think we cant do without him. And im not so ignorant that I think he was invaluable to the team.
Quit talking out your ***.. I suppose you sit back on the weekends and watch film of Green Bay?
Why am I defending myself? Unless you are blind or stupid, you know that Morency had an issue staying on his feet.
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
Grid said:The reason you didnt find anything is because I said the last two years, not the last 6 months. The forums only go back to this years draft.
I, like everyone else, liked what I saw out of Morency this offseason. But im not such a fool that I think we cant do without him. And im not so ignorant that I think he was invaluable to the team.
Quit talking out your ***.. I suppose you sit back on the weekends and watch film of Green Bay?
Why am I defending myself? Unless you are blind or stupid, you know that Morency had an issue staying on his feet.
firstly-dont worry i didnt do an in-depth search or anything so there could be stuff there giving out about morency but i knew you- like everybody else- was impressed with him the last month...and then to just write him off because he used to trip up times in the capers era was stupid- a bit like saying 'when will the giants get rid of Tiki Barber and his pesky fumbling problems' last year..
yes morency HAD some problems staying on his feet during Dom's years but kubiak told him to change how he was running and stop dancing-which he did..and he didnt have those problems then in what we saw of him...and looked like he was thriving inthe new system
i dont think morency is invaluable- he was our best rb though (on a team that doesnt have much in that position) so im questioning why they got rid of them...and i cant find an answer yet - if he was old or injury prone id understand
and no, surprisingly enough, i dont study GB games every weekend..however i saw 2 of their games live last year and all their highlights.. and since gado was a bit of a story last year, id notice him more than normal..and you could see Gado isnt fast- hes adequate and thats about it..and im guessing he hasnt turned into a speedster in 9 months...he wasnt very shifty either although i did see him do a nice spin move 1 week(highlights) v SD i think
Everything ive heard about Gado is that he has good speed. Good enough to run it in for a touchdown from 30-40 yards out.
I still saw Morency trip this offseason..though only a couple times. He was running well enough that it wasnt a huge problem..but he STILL had the issue.
As for Morency being the best RB on our team.. I think people here have done a pretty good job of breaking down just WHEN Morency played, and who he was playing against (2nd stringers)..though I agree he looked as good as Lundy most of the time..and better some of the time. As to "getting rid of our best RB".. well... at one point Matt Stevens was our best FS.. just cause he was the best one we had, that didnt make him good. Thats an extreme example but the point is the same. Id rather take a chance to get a great player, than take the safe road and keep our average one.
I still saw Morency trip this offseason..though only a couple times. He was running well enough that it wasnt a huge problem..but he STILL had the issue.
As for Morency being the best RB on our team.. I think people here have done a pretty good job of breaking down just WHEN Morency played, and who he was playing against (2nd stringers)..though I agree he looked as good as Lundy most of the time..and better some of the time. As to "getting rid of our best RB".. well... at one point Matt Stevens was our best FS.. just cause he was the best one we had, that didnt make him good. Thats an extreme example but the point is the same. Id rather take a chance to get a great player, than take the safe road and keep our average one.
TEXANRED
Texan-American
Morency reminded me of Allen PinkettGrid said:The reason you didnt find anything is because I said the last two years, not the last 6 months. The forums only go back to this years draft.
I, like everyone else, liked what I saw out of Morency this offseason. But im not such a fool that I think we cant do without him. And im not so ignorant that I think he was invaluable to the team.
Quit talking out your ***.. I suppose you sit back on the weekends and watch film of Green Bay?
Why am I defending myself? Unless you are blind or stupid, you know that Morency had an issue staying on his feet.
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
Grid said:
like i said adequate speed..ie theres no slow rb in the nfl..hes not a breakaway runner in my mind though..
referring to the last line of your post(i agree), i can say with reasonable certainty, from what ive seen, that morency has the better physical attributes to be a good/great rb....which is why im so confused/ down about this trade
as to his tripping...well we can say he's vastly improved that in the short time kubiak was here...and likely would've/will get better still...also if morency was our best rb then he should've been kept no matter what that says about our rb group...
hopefully gado will surprise me and be much better but right now id bet against it
