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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

austins23 said:
not only did he not touch anyone, I don't think he even went over the LOS.


Except they don't, all they have to do now is stand up and point at the defender that jumped. That olineman never had any intention of making contact with Clowney yesterday.

Stupid rule!
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The Olineman does not have to make contact with the D player that has crossed the LOS, he can just move or make contact with any D player
txtx said:
First of all, I sympathize with Clowney after not getting an extension. He kept the defensive line together in Watt's absence. And he still deserves credit for coming back from that serious knee injury.

He didn't lose the game himself--except that I gave him credit for winning the 1st Colts game himself with his big sack at the end and fumble recovery for a TD--ignoring his multiple penalties. He was DPOW then. So he can be the goat now. After forcing several QBs into INTs this year, I thought his rush was weak vs the Colts.

We finally have Clowney, Watt and Mercilus playing together with Covington, Dunn and Reader exceeding expectations, and it still takes CB or safety blitzes to bring pressure, so I don't think it's working at 100% effectiveness. Clowney's weight I found ranges anywhere between 255-275 online, but he looks more slender to me than last year, maybe that's an illusion. Was it a plan to maximize his body for speed, because he seems to ignore his power rush a lot this year, content to slip between blockers and around the pocket--teams obviously run the ball inside him, knowing he'll run right past. I've never seen a player right next to a QB so many times NOT get a sack. He sometimes swipes at the ball and grabs instead of tackling. Just another way he seems undisciplined. And at least face reporters and not hide like a 10-year-old.

I'm sure he'll have 5 TFLs and 3 sacks vs the Jets Saturday to make up for this week.
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He weighed 266# at the combine; he built up and started his rookie season ~ 275; after his microfracture surgery, he was not progressing well and was directed to lose weight in the 2017 offseason because it was felt his knee would benefit from less weight; he leveled out to ~260; this season, it was felt that he would further benefit from a little more weight off his knee, and is now playing at ~255.

After microfracture knee surgery, especially sudden stopping or acute change of direction becomes compromised and can easily explain your observation of "next to a QB" without a sack.

.
 
He weighed 266# at the combine; he built up and started his rookie season ~ 275; after his microfracture surgery, he was not progressing well and was directed to lose weight in the 2017 offseason because it was felt his knee would benefit from less weight; he leveled out to ~260; this season, it was felt that he would further benefit from a little more weight off his knee, and is now playing at ~255.

After microfracture knee surgery, especially sudden stopping or acute change of direction becomes compromised and can easily explain your observation of "next to a QB" without a sack.

.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that, it totally makes sense. If I had the knee history he has, I'd do the same. I just hadn't learned those details.

When an opposing coach targets you for a penalty and you know it's coming and commit it anyway, maybe he can work on his brain quickness now. It's like if Frank Reich told Kareem Jackson before a play, 'hey, Hilton's gonna make that double move you bit on three times in the last game and got called for holding for each time,' and Jackson bites and holds him anyway.
 
Max said:
Clowney's a lot like this team imo. Hard to figure out. Sometimes amazing, sometimes not very impressive. And generally more highly regarded by those not following the team closely than by those who are.
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I feel that way too sometimes, but it's easy to pick and pick when a player's not developing the way you think they should when you see them up close all the time. If I watched every New England game, I'd see the flaws. Jumping offsides is pretty glaring.
 
Did anyone else notice on one play he got pushed backwards about 5 yards? Reminded me a little of scene in Blindside where Oher pushed that guy all the way to the endzone. Is he just too light now? Also teams love to run around him when he is on the end because he always seems to go to the inside. On his pass rush when he goes outside he just seems to get blocked so he ends up running behind the QB. Is this also because he is too light now.

What would you take for him in draft choices? Since his contract is up can we even trade him or do we need to tag him to trade him? I don't think we get anything in trade if we tag him. No way anyone is going to give 2 1st round picks for him. Do we get compensation if he leaves?
 
gafftop said:
Since his contract is up can we even trade him or do we need to tag him to trade him? I don't think we get anything in trade if we tag him. No way anyone is going to give 2 1st round picks for him. Do we get compensation if he leaves?
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Have to tag him but compensation less than 2 1sts could be negotiated. Compensatory picks always depend on your net free agency. You have to lose more than you sign so there is no guarantee of anything.
 
infantrycak said:
Have to tag him but compensation less than 2 1sts could be negotiated. Compensatory picks always depend on your net free agency. You have to lose more than you sign so there is no guarantee of anything.
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Well good news is you can negotiate lower than 2 ones so there is a chance. Otherwise he goes the way of all our other 1.1 picks getting absolutely nothing in return other than compensation or did we get something for Carr.
 
gafftop said:
Well good news is you can negotiate lower than 2 ones so there is a chance. Otherwise he goes the way of all our other 1.1 picks getting absolutely nothing in return other than compensation or did we get something for Carr.
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If Clowney finishes the season on two legs that'll be plus. If he gets a sniff of the Pro Bowl, that'll be surprising. Nonetheless, if the Texans make any noise in the playoffs and defense led the way, that would be biggest feather in the Texans hat.

Clowney could yield a RD2 and RD3 or RD4 as compensation. If the takers desire to split the picks up over 2 drafts, I think a Clowney trade could yield a RD2 in 2019 and 2020.
 
steelbtexan said:
The OL really sucks and BOB is just trying to shorten the game. Just like Kubiak used to do with a better OL.
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I wasn't criticizing that he was running. I was criticizing how he was running.

And if the personnel is bad enough something doesn't work you move on to something that does. The Texans were 31st in rushing under Kubiak one season. We led the league in passing. Schaub threw 36.5 times per game.
 
infantrycak said:
I wasn't criticizing that he was running. I was criticizing how he was running.

And if the personnel is bad enough something doesn't work you move on to something that does. The Texans were 31st in rushing under Kubiak one season. We led the league in passing. Schaub threw 36.5 times per game.
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They have moved on from the formula I believe BOB wants to use to the formula that won 9 games in a row. Until the OL gets fixed this team will never be a contender.
 
infantrycak said:
I wasn't criticizing that he was running. I was criticizing how he was running.

And if the personnel is bad enough something doesn't work you move on to something that does. The Texans were 31st in rushing under Kubiak one season. We led the league in passing. Schaub threw 36.5 times per game.
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They have run some outside stuff and lost yards at times. I think the condition of the o-line may have a strong influence on the running plays BoB calls. Not saying they couldn't be more creative, but I think the o-line may dictate a lot of what they run.
 
infantrycak said:
Which wasn't offset by Miller's 14 carries for 33 yds.
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steelbtexan said:
Yep, the OL is really bad.
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infantrycak said:
And playcalling not accounting for that or Miller's strengths sucks.
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steelbtexan said:
The OL really sucks and BOB is just trying to shorten the game. Just like Kubiak used to do with a better OL.
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BO'b, or whoever was calling plays did a much better job of helping that OL vs the Titans & Browns.

They really mixed up how the RB got the ball & the angels he attacked the defense. Whether it was Blue or Miller. DLs had to choose between bad & more bad gap defense.

Against Indy, our RBs were served up on a platter.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The Olineman does not have to make contact with the D player that has crossed the LOS, he can just move or make contact with any D player


He weighed 266# at the combine; he built up and started his rookie season ~ 275; after his microfracture surgery, he was not progressing well and was directed to lose weight in the 2017 offseason because it was felt his knee would benefit from less weight; he leveled out to ~260; this season, it was felt that he would further benefit from a little more weight off his knee, and is now playing at ~255.

After microfracture knee surgery, especially sudden stopping or acute change of direction becomes compromised and can easily explain your observation of "next to a QB" without a sack.

.
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I'm not a doctor, but wouldn't you think a little teflon applied in March could help him...

I mean every March.
 
txtx said:
Thanks for that, it totally makes sense. If I had the knee history he has, I'd do the same. I just hadn't learned those details.

When an opposing coach targets you for a penalty and you know it's coming and commit it anyway, maybe he can work on his brain quickness now.
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This is getting out of hand. That was not the first time Clowney was "targeted" for an offsides penalty.

I can think of three other games teams had us in the exact same situation trying to get him to jump offsides & they had to burn a TO because he didn't bite.

I'm upset that he did that time, but this "acting like we know better" is ridiculous. Had Luck snapped that ball & Clowney sacked him or forced a bad play we could capitalize on, he'd be a hero.

Keep in mind we barely got to Luck all game & he wanted to win more than you & me.
 
I think Clowney is weak point on front 7. They game plan for him to pull him offside, sucker him on screen plays and go around him when he is the end
Watched him first half and he did nothing except get 15 yard penalty and get sucked in on a screen pass. I agree best scenario is he plays big in playoffs like a Dallas secondary player did in SB and some gm is suckered
 
thunderkyss said:
This is getting out of hand. That was not the first time Clowney was "targeted" for an offsides penalty.

I can think of three other games teams had us in the exact same situation trying to get him to jump offsides & they had to burn a TO because he didn't bite.

I'm upset that he did that time, but this "acting like we know better" is ridiculous. Had Luck snapped that ball & Clowney sacked him or forced a bad play we could capitalize on, he'd be a hero.

Keep in mind we barely got to Luck all game & he wanted to win more than you & me.
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I think that is the problem with him he just cares about the big play and wants to be the hero and doesn’t play sound football
Plus he seems to have no football sense. Just my opinion
 
infantrycak said:
You've been slamming JDC since before he was drafted.
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YEP!!!!! Would have NEVER drafted him. You got that right. One player I did not want Texans to take 1.1 Same now as in college. Plays for highlight plays and does not play sound football. Not a real football player. Has been said all above. So yes I am still pissed the Texans wasted 1.1 on him. Mario was a more solid player than JD. I see no way we resign so a total loss of draft capital.
 
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thunderkyss said:
I'm upset that he did that time, but this "acting like we know better" is ridiculous. Had Luck snapped that ball & Clowney sacked him or forced a bad play we could capitalize on, he'd be a hero.
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I gave Clowney total credit for winning the 1st Colts game with his fumble recovery TD and important late sack, ignoring his 3 penalties. So Clowney can get the blame, not for losing the game but single-handedly preventing us from a last chance. Which is the simple truth. And his doing it on a regular basis doesn't make it acceptable but less acceptable and unprofessional. Maybe he should swap positions with McKinney or Mercilus late in games and stay off the line.
 
Brisco_County said:
This is why I'm not understanding the lack of quick slants or blitz-beating plays. Luck demonstrated how it's done through the entire second half.
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I agree. And vs the Jets, when their blitz kept landing all game long, O'Brien called a deep drop in the red zone on 3rd and 3. Sack. Whyyyyyy?
 
So much of what Clowney does goes unnoticed until you start watching the game again. You dont see the sexy stats so maybe the assumption is that he's a big, dumb dude who doesn't have a high football IQ or whatever. IMO nothing could be further from the truth. In particular the run game, that man knows how to destroy a blocking attack to his side. He takes on walls of blockers and makes them account for him. Sadly his stats take a tumble. McKinney, Cunningham, KJAX, and to some degree even JJ are the recipients of what he does. In the beginning of the season Cunningham and McKinney were horrible when JDC was freestyling and getting his. Soon as he became a focus of the blocking game and started to engage 2-3 guys those other defenders games started to improve. Coincidence?

My gripes with JDC? His edge contain has been horrible at times. Over pursuing and having piss poor cutback lane integrity. On passing downs he can be neutralized somewhat easily .. he lacks moves, and counters mainly relying on speed and dip around the edge . . which is pretty damn good if you ever see the bend the guy gets in slow motion. Dumb offsides penalties! That is a direct IQ issue - not knowing the situation he needs to keep his head in the game better.

Still - having JaDeveon Clowney be the figure for your Amoeba package is fairly threatening. When JDC stands up in the A gap it creates all kinds of havoc for the OL, and then having him just float around always having the offense to account for him is nerve racking. He is a very good player who tends to be the whipping boy around here kinda similar to what Mario was most of his time.
 
gafftop said:
YEP!!!!! Would have NEVER drafted him. You got that right. One player I did not want Texans to take 1.1 Same now as in college. Plays for highlight plays and does not play sound football. Not a real football player. Has been said all above. So yes I am still pissed the Texans wasted 1.1 on him. Mario was a more solid player than JD. I see no way we resign so a total loss of draft capital.
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Looking back XTR had it right Mack was the best player in that draft.

Considering Clowney blew out his knee on the McNair turf, notice how after the Hartmann lawsuit was settled they went to field turf. Clowney has had a good career. He's the swiss army knife on the defense. He can rush the passer from the inside or outside and is great against the run. He also helps set up some of Watt's sacks by drawing attention away from Watt.

Curious, who did you want Ricky to draft instead of Clowney?
 
steelbtexan said:
Looking back XTR had it right Mack was the best player in that draft.
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I disagree..

usatsi_10583968.jpg
 
steelbtexan said:
Looking back XTR had it right Mack was the best player in that draft.

Considering Clowney blew out his knee on the McNair turf, notice how after the Hartmann lawsuit was settled they went to field turf. Clowney has had a good career. He's the swiss army knife on the defense. He can rush the passer from the inside or outside and is great against the run. He also helps set up some of Watt's sacks by drawing attention away from Watt.

Curious, who did you want Ricky to draft instead of Clowney?
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As I posted before draft I wanted to trade down and get multiple players. We needed help in many areas not just one. I did not want to put all our eggs in one basket especially Clowney. The draft is always a risk . If you can get more players you have a better chance of getting a good healthy player that will help you over a long time. If you get the 1.1 you better be ready to pay max dollars down the road to keep him. Unless a franchise QB I don't think 1.1 is the best way to go especially with Clowneys questionable college career. Just my feelings
 
gafftop said:
As I posted before draft I wanted to trade down and get multiple players. We needed help in many areas not just one. I did not want to put all our eggs in one basket especially Clowney. The draft is always a risk . If you can get more players you have a better chance of getting a good healthy player that will help you over a long time. If you get the 1.1 you better be ready to pay max dollars down the road to keep him. Unless a franchise QB I don't think 1.1 is the best way to go especially with Clowneys questionable college career. Just my feelings
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Unfortunately it takes 2 to tango, word is the Texans were trying to trade down, but people normally don't want to pay the price to trade up to 1.1 for positions other than a FQB.
 
gafftop said:
As I posted before draft I wanted to trade down and get multiple players. We needed help in many areas not just one. I did not want to put all our eggs in one basket especially Clowney. The draft is always a risk . If you can get more players you have a better chance of getting a good healthy player that will help you over a long time. If you get the 1.1 you better be ready to pay max dollars down the road to keep him. Unless a franchise QB I don't think 1.1 is the best way to go especially with Clowneys questionable college career. Just my feelings
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Gotta have a trade partner.
 
Shishkabob said:
Unfortunately it takes 2 to tango, word is the Texans were trying to trade down, but people normally don't want to pay the price to trade up to 1.1 for positions other than a FQB.
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I hear you and agree totally .Our bad luck that no fqb but if there was we probably wouldn’t trade. I think we could have made a trade but we probably would not have gotten what was considered fair value
 
PapaL said:
I wish it more plays for us and less offsides. Clowney is a beast. I’m glad we don’t have to block him.
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He needs to be more focused and aware I agree. Ball movement .. I'm sure most of us who played defense would jump and our coaches would make us do pop ups or laps. It's one of the first things you learn there really isn't a good excuse for it. Amplified exponentially when the game is on the line. Hope he learns from it. If that's his worst trait then I'd say we're in good shape .. well til his knee explodes here shortly or next year or never. :kitten:
 
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