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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

powda said:
We'll take one last year of service and then jettison him for cap and a compensatory pick.

The only way that changes is someone new on the team goes absolutely mean joe green throughout preseason and the first 2-3 games.

Don't forget, our HC is playing for his job and now also a defacto gm. Jd this year is worth more then a 1st rd pick plus to him next year. He might not be here next year and he knows it.
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the compensatory pick comes with restrictions. You arent assured of anything of substance dependent on other variables. You could get a 4th round pick for him right now in a trade - thats it. Thats because of Bill Obriens fat mouth and the lack of discipline that comes out of the front office.
 
infantrycak said:
Such as? They eliminated the no trading rule.
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its usually why Houston tries to sign players who have been 'cut' because it wont affect the compensatory pick formula. Say you let Clowney walk since he sucks so bad and is not Watt and all that good stuff right? So then you think you will be smart and then sign another pass rusher who makes you feel more warm and fuzzy, but costs you similar money (since you know DEs are the 2nd highest paid guys on a football field) then they would cancel out and you get nothing in return. Kind of like the Roby/KJAX deal where no comp pick was generated, and why Mathieu will probably generate a 3rd or 4th rounder since the other players the Texans have signed (Gipson/Guy from SD) were cut.

I guess you would assume that the Texans would sit on their hands on purpose just to receive at most a 3rd rounder? Okay. I mean it makes some sense since the Texas are horribly bad in free agency and with the newfound approach to not giving players offer sheets and instead waiting for teams to unload their scraps or cap casualties could result in that scenario.

edit: https://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/

Each qualifying player has a value based on his contract, playing time and postseason honors, and that value corresponds to a round in the draft. In the compensatory equation, each qualifying player that a team signs cancels out a qualifying player that the team lost whose value is the highest in the same round. If there are no lost players remaining in that round, the signed player cancels out the lost player whose value is the next-highest. A signed player will cancel out a lost player whose value falls in a higher round only if there are no remaining lost players. After all of a team’s qualifying signed players have canceled out a lost player, the team can receive a comp pick for each qualifying player who remains. For example, consider a team that loses one qualifying player whose value falls in the third round and another qualifying player whose value falls in the sixth round but signs a qualifying player whose value falls in the third round. That team would receive a sixth-round comp pick because the signed player would cancel out the loss of the higher-valued player. If the signed player’s value were equal to a fourth-round pick or lower, however, the team would receive a third-round comp pick, because the signed player would cancel out the loss of the lower-valued player.
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Uncle Rico said:
the compensatory pick comes with restrictions. You arent assured of anything of substance dependent on other variables. You could get a 4th round pick for him right now in a trade - thats it. Thats because of Bill Obriens fat mouth and the lack of discipline that comes out of the front office.
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I don't think OB has said anything directly about not wanting to sign Clowney long term. Reports referencing unnamed sources, but nothing direct. Anyway, since when has front office or coaching squabbles brought down trade value? Obviously if a team is willing to trade a valuable player there is a reason behind it. All we can do is speculate what is going on.

IMO, pride gets in the way of a lot of teams getting deals done. Nobody wants to look like they got taken advantage of and that could be part of the reason Gaine was let go. IMO, value is getting the best you can get. Probably had offers for a 2nd and didn't take them leading up to and during the draft. If the Texans are willing to settle for a 2nd round pick a trade will happen, and if they can't get the 1st they are looking for this year, my assumption is that they will FT him again next year and trade him for a 2nd.
 
gs27 said:
I don't think OB has said anything directly about not wanting to sign Clowney long term. Reports referencing unnamed sources, but nothing direct. Anyway, since when has front office or coaching squabbles brought down trade value? Obviously if a team is willing to trade a valuable player there is a reason behind it. All we can do is speculate what is going on.

IMO, pride gets in the way of a lot of teams getting deals done. Nobody wants to look like they got taken advantage of and that could be part of the reason Gaine was let go. IMO, value is getting the best you can get. Probably had offers for a 2nd and didn't take them leading up to and during the draft. If the Texans are willing to settle for a 2nd round pick a trade will happen, and if they can't get the 1st they are looking for this year, my assumption is that they will FT him again next year and trade him for a 2nd.
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So let me get this straight. The entire football world knows that JD and Texans/Bill Obrien are not on the same page, and then you have these reports emerge (substantiated or not) that there is an internal desire NOT to keep JD around long term why in the world would any team give anything of substance? They could just pop their popcorn and watch the show unfold, and wait for JD to sit out or for Houston to be forced to trade him for a 6th rounder just so they "dont lose him for nothing" .. as of right now you couldnt get more than a 4th and a 5th maybe .. best deal would be finding a player which the team values more and WOULD be willing to extend and just use the money that way. Reactive decision making reeks of inefficiency and waste. Texans want to be like the Patriots so damn bad, but they are horrible at evaluating talent and knowing who to keep and who to let go. Its a really pathetic way to run the team. Sht we were better when we were trying to copy the Broncos.
 
Couple questions about Clowneys "contract situation":
(1) So for whatever reason if JD failed to sign the tender then this means he's not going to get paid and therefor is sitting out the 2019 season ?
(2) The Texans cannot negotiate a new contract with JD until after the conclusion of the 2019 season ?
(3) Between now and the end of the 2019 season can the Texans trade Clowney to another team which could negotiate a new contract (even though Houston can't), with JD prior to the end of the 2019 season ?
 
Uncle Rico said:
So let me get this straight. The entire football world knows that JD and Texans/Bill Obrien are not on the same page, and then you have these reports emerge (substantiated or not) that there is an internal desire NOT to keep JD around long term why in the world would any team give anything of substance? They could just pop their popcorn and watch the show unfold, and wait for JD to sit out or for Houston to be forced to trade him for a 6th rounder just so they "dont lose him for nothing" .. as of right now you couldnt get more than a 4th and a 5th maybe .. best deal would be finding a player which the team values more and WOULD be willing to extend and just use the money that way. Reactive decision making reeks of inefficiency and waste. Texans want to be like the Patriots so damn bad, but they are horrible at evaluating talent and knowing who to keep and who to let go. Its a really pathetic way to run the team. Sht we were better when we were trying to copy the Broncos.
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What's the source of these OB doesn't want Clowney rumours?
 
IDEXAN said:
Couple questions about Clowneys "contract situation":
(1) So for whatever reason if JD failed to sign the tender then this means he's not going to get paid and therefor is sitting out the 2019 season ?
(2) The Texans cannot negotiate a new contract with JD until after the conclusion of the 2019 season ?
(3) Between now and the end of the 2019 season can the Texans trade Clowney to another team which could negotiate a new contract (even though Houston can't), with JD prior to the end of the 2019 season ?
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Him not signing the tender means they can't negotiate a multi-year contract before the end of the season
 
Uncle Rico said:
So let me get this straight. The entire football world knows that JD and Texans/Bill Obrien are not on the same page, and then you have these reports emerge (substantiated or not) that there is an internal desire NOT to keep JD around long term why in the world would any team give anything of substance? They could just pop their popcorn and watch the show unfold, and wait for JD to sit out or for Houston to be forced to trade him for a 6th rounder just so they "dont lose him for nothing" .. as of right now you couldnt get more than a 4th and a 5th maybe .. best deal would be finding a player which the team values more and WOULD be willing to extend and just use the money that way. Reactive decision making reeks of inefficiency and waste. Texans want to be like the Patriots so damn bad, but they are horrible at evaluating talent and knowing who to keep and who to let go. Its a really pathetic way to run the team. Sht we were better when we were trying to copy the Broncos.
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Because teams want to win and it is competitive to get good players. Value is value regardless of what is going on behind the scenes.

You may not like this but the following is what was and is most likely to happen, IMO: (wish I could do a flow chart on here)

Clowney tagged for 2019

Texans tried to get 1st round pick in 2019 draft - Did not - Clowney remains tagged

If Texans get offered a 1st for 2020 before start of 2019 season - Clowney is traded

Texans do not get offered a 1st - Clowney remains a 2019 Texan, doesn't show up until Week 1 game


Clowney plays well in 2019 - tagged again for 2020 - Clowney doesn't play well or sits out (would be awful decision) than many more possible scenarios develop

Texans get offered a 2020 2nd before draft - Clowney is traded

Texans get offered a 2021 2nd before start of 2020 season - Clowney is traded

If Texans do not get offered a 2nd - Clowney remains a 2020 Texan


Clowney is FA in 2021 - Texans get what they get for comp.
 
gs27 said:
Because teams want to win and it is competitive to get good players. Value is value regardless of what is going on behind the scenes.

You may not like this but the following is what was and is most likely to happen, IMO: (wish I could do a flow chart on here)

Clowney tagged for 2019

Texans tried to get 1st round pick in 2019 draft - Did not - Clowney remains tagged

If Texans get offered a 1st for 2020 before start of 2019 season - Clowney is traded

Texans do not get offered a 1st - Clowney remains a 2019 Texan, doesn't show up until Week 1 game


Clowney plays well in 2019 - tagged again for 2020 - Clowney doesn't play well or sits out (would be awful decision) than many more possible scenarios develop

Texans get offered a 2020 2nd before draft - Clowney is traded

Texans get offered a 2021 2nd before start of 2020 season - Clowney is traded

If Texans do not get offered a 2nd - Clowney remains a 2020 Texan


Clowney is FA in 2021 - Texans get what they get for comp.
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Pretty team friendly and fantastic scenario, but do yourself a favor and throw any notion of a 1st or 2nd out of the window. If you are resigned to test your fate against the compensatory formula and play hardball and never budge cool, but at its best case the most you will get for 1st overall pick Jadeveon Clowney will be a 3rd round compensatory pick, and thats if your incoming free agents that year dont cancel out his signing elsewhere. Its a managerial mess my guy. Houston has absolutely no leverage. Its amazing that Clowney is willing to play this year on the tag, but I highly doubt he will do it 2 years in a row and with more time that passes the less you will get in return. Houston should have traded him before the fired Gaine, and maybe they could have maximized return, but either you fork up the money to keep him around or you lose him for peanuts.
 
IDEXAN said:
Couple questions about Clowneys "contract situation":
(1) So for whatever reason if JD failed to sign the tender then this means he's not going to get paid and therefor is sitting out the 2019 season ?
He will not get paid until he signs the tender but can sign it at any time, he gets paid the proportionate amount of the games he plays once he signs it.

(2) The Texans cannot negotiate a new contract with JD until after the conclusion of the 2019 season ?
Correct, can't negotiate a new contract until end of 2019 season

(3) Between now and the end of the 2019 season can the Texans trade Clowney to another team which could negotiate a new contract (even though Houston can't), with JD prior to the end of the 2019 season ?
Yes, Can still trade him at any time and he can negotiate a new contract with new team
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Uncle Rico said:
So let me get this straight. The entire football world knows that JD and Texans/Bill Obrien are not on the same page, and then you have these reports emerge (substantiated or not) that there is an internal desire NOT to keep JD around long term why in the world would any team give anything of substance? They could just pop their popcorn and watch the show unfold, and wait for JD to sit out or for Houston to be forced to trade him for a 6th rounder just so they "dont lose him for nothing" .. as of right now you couldnt get more than a 4th and a 5th maybe .. best deal would be finding a player which the team values more and WOULD be willing to extend and just use the money that way. Reactive decision making reeks of inefficiency and waste. Texans want to be like the Patriots so damn bad, but they are horrible at evaluating talent and knowing who to keep and who to let go. Its a really pathetic way to run the team. Sht we were better when we were trying to copy the Broncos.
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Because in the "short term" Texans control JD for two seasons. If team wants him they have to pay. There have been no indications Texans will let Clowney walk at end of this season. JD cannot afford to sit or slack as teams might think he isn't as good. Also there has been no indication he will sit out regular season. You are griping just to gripe. Nothing to support your POV about low round draft picks either.
 
badboy said:
Because in the "short term" Texans control JD for two seasons. If team wants him they have to pay. There have been no indications Texans will let Clowney walk at end of this season. JD cannot afford to sit or slack as teams might think he isn't as good. Also there has been no indication he will sit out regular season. You are griping just to gripe. Nothing to support your POV about low round draft picks either.
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Popcorn is popping! “Teams might think he isn’t as good” Lol ok.

Teams want him don’t downplay the talent, now they just have to be patient and don’t need to give up anything.

But you guys get to play “owners” for another year before it plays itself out and then you’ll only need to say “glad I was wrong” and be instantly absolved. Sweet gig.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Popcorn is popping! “Teams might think he isn’t as good” Lol ok.

Teams want him don’t downplay the talent, now they just have to be patient and don’t need to give up anything.

But you guys get to play “owners” for another year before it plays itself out and then you’ll only need to say “glad I was wrong” and be instantly absolved. Sweet gig.
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You're sitting here playing Jr GM and "owner" suggesting JD get payed. We get it. You're doing your best SBT impression with a hard on for signing Clowney. I'm still good with 2 FT and letting him walk. That's 7 yrs in the league and 6 on a bum knee.
 
DocBar said:
You're sitting here playing Jr GM and "owner" suggesting JD get payed. We get it. You're doing your best SBT impression with a hard on for signing Clowney. I'm still good with 2 FT and letting him walk. That's 7 yrs in the league and 6 on a bum knee.
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Agreed,

But what does this have to do with me?
 
DocBar said:
He is singularly focused on JD like you are with Texans ownership.
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The difference is ownership ultimately decided how successful the Texans org will be and there's 17 years of proof that says the Texans will never win with the McNair's as owners. I really hoped things were going to change with Gaine as gm. I should have known better.
 
steelbtexan said:
The difference is ownership ultimately decided how successful the Texans org will be and there's 17 years of proof that says the Texans will never win with the McNair's as owners. I really hoped things were going to change with Gaine as gm. I should have known better.
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Perhaps they would have SteelB but we weren't given the opportunity to find that out were we ?
 
DocBar said:
You're sitting here playing Jr GM and "owner" suggesting JD get payed. We get it. You're doing your best SBT impression with a hard on for signing Clowney. I'm still good with 2 FT and letting him walk. That's 7 yrs in the league and 6 on a bum knee.
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LOL thats what you got? Junior High insults and uninformed takes? Clowney has already rebounded from microfracture - you're bum knee conspiracy theory is just football pizzagate. Do some research instead of taking chat room personalities opinions as some sort of gospel. Enjoy your 1st amendment chief! You can go back to hanging around the spitoon with the other good ol' boys talking bout how good this here team is and how they never make any bad moves! Its just bad luck they dont go 16-0 every year. SMH.
 
Uncle Rico said:
LOL thats what you got? Junior High insults and uninformed takes? Clowney has already rebounded from microfracture - you're bum knee conspiracy theory is just football pizzagate. Do some research instead of taking chat room personalities opinions as some sort of gospel. Enjoy your 1st amendment chief! You can go back to hanging around the spitoon with the other good ol' boys talking bout how good this here team is and how they never make any bad moves! Its just bad luck they dont go 16-0 every year. SMH.
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Do you know how long most microfracture surgeries last?
 
Uncle Rico said:
LOL thats what you got? Junior High insults and uninformed takes? Clowney has already rebounded from microfracture - you're bum knee conspiracy theory is just football pizzagate. Do some research instead of taking chat room personalities opinions as some sort of gospel. Enjoy your 1st amendment chief! You can go back to hanging around the spitoon with the other good ol' boys talking bout how good this here team is and how they never make any bad moves! Its just bad luck they dont go 16-0 every year. SMH.
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I was using your own words for the junior high insults.
 
Uncle Rico said:
LOL thats what you got? Junior High insults and uninformed takes? Clowney has already rebounded from microfracture - you're bum knee conspiracy theory is just football pizzagate. Do some research instead of taking chat room personalities opinions as some sort of gospel. Enjoy your 1st amendment chief! You can go back to hanging around the spitoon with the other good ol' boys talking bout how good this here team is and how they never make any bad moves! Its just bad luck they dont go 16-0 every year. SMH.
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If you were not so insulting to other posters you would almost be hilarious! You started with the insults and uninformed takes. Research from sources other than those trained to speak knowledgeably among our TT group shows Clowney will not get better from his knee surgery than he is now. The risk or gamble is how long can he be as good before his play suffers. You indicate his "rebound" is 100 percent for a long term contract. All known evidence contradicts that. There is no bum knee conspiracy; it is a fact he had surgery with follow up "cleaning". His knee will continue to be an issue; to what extent is again the risk/gamble.

I don't think anyone has said this team never makes bad moves; just the opposite. On your post before one I quote you stated a team interested in Clowney has only to sit and wait and get him at lesser offer. Can you not see Texans will not make a trade they do not want? O'Brien was not to have said JD was not good or that he didn't want him. He allegedly said he didn't want to give him a LTD. You want them to give him money GTD comparable to others recently signed. Some of us do not.
 
PapaL said:
This thread was about Clowney once upon a time. Now it’s about a lot of feelings.
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No it is about misrepresentation and making claims as if fact with no supportive evidence. I can do without name calling, slurs,etc but some have to trash talk.
 
Uncle Rico said:
He's going to sprint into a 120M dollar contract and keep being a problem for opponents and you guys can keep playing Junior GM with Cals money saving it for the next Ed Reed and crying about these "millionaires want too damn much money!!"
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You were speaking about Junior High insults? Hmmm....
 
badboy said:
If you were not so insulting to other posters you would almost be hilarious! You started with the insults and uninformed takes. Research from sources other than those trained to speak knowledgeably among our TT group shows Clowney will not get better from his knee surgery than he is now. The risk or gamble is how long can he be as good before his play suffers. You indicate his "rebound" is 100 percent for a long term contract. All known evidence contradicts that. There is no bum knee conspiracy; it is a fact he had surgery with follow up "cleaning". His knee will continue to be an issue; to what extent is again the risk/gamble.

I don't think anyone has said this team never makes bad moves; just the opposite. On your post before one I quote you stated a team interested in Clowney has only to sit and wait and get him at lesser offer. Can you not see Texans will not make a trade they do not want? O'Brien was not to have said JD was not good or that he didn't want him. He allegedly said he didn't want to give him a LTD. You want them to give him money GTD comparable to others recently signed. Some of us do not.
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I dont ever resort to name calling, flaming, vitriol or any other of the tasteless ways people here tend to interact with one another when their little cliques get invaded or their BORG mentality on whats best for the team, or players gets criticized. So take it how you want. You want to believe what CNNNNNNNNNanddagger has to say good for you! Thats what boys are for. I think Doc provides a nice service for this board too, but I'll always get a second opinion and add an element of self awareness and justifiable research instead of the old "well doc said he's never playing again, so it must be true" Doc also said Duane Brown would never be the same player again, guess what? He is. Its not an infallable science. There are outliers, there are anomalies. You say JD is not one because here FIVE YEARS after the procedure he's had to get ONE scope? Cmon man. I'll just throw Dan Marino and Rod Woodson at you (how dare you use HOFers to compare to JD Clowney who's a bum compared to them) well I'll tell you- because there are players who make it after microfracture - your stance seems to be that NOBODY MAKES IT AFTER MICROFRACTURE, well guess what - you're wrong. Tell me since you're mind is so made up, why cant JD Clowney prevail over this 'career ender' why must it be held over his head and used as a derogatory point to his future? Because CNNNNNDDDDD said so? SMH. I've produced medical reports on this very thread that show the odds in pertinence to sport and how players when they have this procedure EARLY are more apt to return to previous levels of play, and especially those players that were deemed "talented" to begin with (overall #1 pick) hmmm .. and yet all you say is "ALL KNOWN EVIDENCE CONTRADICTS THAT" so then you unequivocally are saying he will break down within the next 4 years? I disagree .. blanket statement just to continue to cover for your boy and this debacle of a team. Nobody said anything about guranteed money- go back and look, thats just you interjecting more nonsensical dribble into an already convoluted conversation. I've spoken in terms of overall money, and how you could be creative in giving him larger chunks up front to appease what he could be losing overall in percpetion- because LIKE I'VE SAID - he ISNT Khalil Mack, Aaron Donald, Von Miller money, but then you have guys who have the nerve to say he's not even in the level of Frank Clark or Demarcus Lawrence? GTFOH. Hilarity is when guys dont understand how to debate and get insulted when somebody is just passionate and well versed on a subject. And please do yourself a favor dont believe for one second what OBrien says- he has been shown to be a piece of **** already and if you think he DIDNT say those things about Clowney then you have a whole other set of issues you should deal with.

@PapaL - no ****. A dude talks about how Clowney is good for the team, and how all the reasons why most people have reservations about him are based on conjecture and they lose their damn minds and want to go "pee pee head" on everyone. Im just ignoring them. that function is a lifesaver for my stress levels.
 
Uncle Rico said:
I dont ever resort to name calling, flaming, vitriol or any other of the tasteless ways people here tend to interact with one another when their little cliques get invaded or their BORG mentality on whats best for the team, or players gets criticized. So take it how you want. You want to believe what CNNNNNNNNNanddagger has to say good for you! Thats what boys are for. I think Doc provides a nice service for this board too, but I'll always get a second opinion and add an element of self awareness and justifiable research instead of the old "well doc said he's never playing again, so it must be true" Doc also said Duane Brown would never be the same player again, guess what? He is. Its not an infallable science. There are outliers, there are anomalies. You say JD is not one because here FIVE YEARS after the procedure he's had to get ONE scope? Cmon man. I'll just throw Dan Marino and Rod Woodson at you (how dare you use HOFers to compare to JD Clowney who's a bum compared to them) well I'll tell you- because there are players who make it after microfracture - your stance seems to be that NOBODY MAKES IT AFTER MICROFRACTURE, well guess what - you're wrong. Tell me since you're mind is so made up, why cant JD Clowney prevail over this 'career ender' why must it be held over his head and used as a derogatory point to his future? Because CNNNNNDDDDD said so? SMH. I've produced medical reports on this very thread that show the odds in pertinence to sport and how players when they have this procedure EARLY are more apt to return to previous levels of play, and especially those players that were deemed "talented" to begin with (overall #1 pick) hmmm .. and yet all you say is "ALL KNOWN EVIDENCE CONTRADICTS THAT" so then you unequivocally are saying he will break down within the next 4 years? I disagree .. blanket statement just to continue to cover for your boy and this debacle of a team. Nobody said anything about guranteed money- go back and look, thats just you interjecting more nonsensical dribble into an already convoluted conversation. I've spoken in terms of overall money, and how you could be creative in giving him larger chunks up front to appease what he could be losing overall in percpetion- because LIKE I'VE SAID - he ISNT Khalil Mack, Aaron Donald, Von Miller money, but then you have guys who have the nerve to say he's not even in the level of Frank Clark or Demarcus Lawrence? GTFOH. Hilarity is when guys dont understand how to debate and get insulted when somebody is just passionate and well versed on a subject. And please do yourself a favor dont believe for one second what OBrien says- he has been shown to be a piece of **** already and if you think he DIDNT say those things about Clowney then you have a whole other set of issues you should deal with.

@PapaL - no ****. A dude talks about how Clowney is good for the team, and how all the reasons why most people have reservations about him are based on conjecture and they lose their damn minds and want to go "pee pee head" on everyone. Im just ignoring them. that function is a lifesaver for my stress levels.
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When are you going to accept the fact that the Texans are not going to waste all of their salary cap on Clowney? Get it through your thick skull.

You've been piping off about this for years with zero evidence to support this idea that we should make Clowney possibly the highest paid player at this position in the NFL.

When this is all over a year or so from now you're going to look really foolish AGAIN.
 
Uncle Rico said:
I dont ever resort to name calling, flaming, vitriol or any other of the tasteless ways people here tend to interact with one another when their little cliques get invaded or their BORG mentality on whats best for the team, or players gets criticized. So take it how you want. You want to believe what CNNNNNNNNNanddagger has to say good for you! Thats what boys are for. I think Doc provides a nice service for this board too, but I'll always get a second opinion and add an element of self awareness and justifiable research instead of the old "well doc said he's never playing again, so it must be true" Doc also said Duane Brown would never be the same player again, guess what? He is. Its not an infallable science. There are outliers, there are anomalies. You say JD is not one because here FIVE YEARS after the procedure he's had to get ONE scope? Cmon man. I'll just throw Dan Marino and Rod Woodson at you (how dare you use HOFers to compare to JD Clowney who's a bum compared to them) well I'll tell you- because there are players who make it after microfracture - your stance seems to be that NOBODY MAKES IT AFTER MICROFRACTURE, well guess what - you're wrong. Tell me since you're mind is so made up, why cant JD Clowney prevail over this 'career ender' why must it be held over his head and used as a derogatory point to his future? Because CNNNNNDDDDD said so? SMH. I've produced medical reports on this very thread that show the odds in pertinence to sport and how players when they have this procedure EARLY are more apt to return to previous levels of play, and especially those players that were deemed "talented" to begin with (overall #1 pick) hmmm .. and yet all you say is "ALL KNOWN EVIDENCE CONTRADICTS THAT" so then you unequivocally are saying he will break down within the next 4 years? I disagree .. blanket statement just to continue to cover for your boy and this debacle of a team. Nobody said anything about guranteed money- go back and look, thats just you interjecting more nonsensical dribble into an already convoluted conversation. I've spoken in terms of overall money, and how you could be creative in giving him larger chunks up front to appease what he could be losing overall in percpetion- because LIKE I'VE SAID - he ISNT Khalil Mack, Aaron Donald, Von Miller money, but then you have guys who have the nerve to say he's not even in the level of Frank Clark or Demarcus Lawrence? GTFOH. Hilarity is when guys dont understand how to debate and get insulted when somebody is just passionate and well versed on a subject. And please do yourself a favor dont believe for one second what OBrien says- he has been shown to be a piece of **** already and if you think he DIDNT say those things about Clowney then you have a whole other set of issues you should deal with.

@PapaL - no ****. A dude talks about how Clowney is good for the team, and how all the reasons why most people have reservations about him are based on conjecture and they lose their damn minds and want to go "pee pee head" on everyone. Im just ignoring them. that function is a lifesaver for my stress levels.
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your very first sentence says you do not call names, or Flame and in the same sentence you do just that using the word Borg. You continue to do so throughout your post. You say people are tasteless and PP heads. LOL. Guide me to the medical information you provided saying JD will get better. I said despite your inference that all evidence indicates he will not be 100% as you think. Texans disagree with you and think that the risk vs reward for signing him to a long-term deal with guaranteed money comparable to those recently signed is too great.
 
Thing is Clowney controls/controlled all this. I don't think the FO would be using this injury thing against him if he already had skins on the wall like the dudes he's trying to be paid like. He's got arguably more talent than both Mack & Donald & all he has to do is come through this year with a DPOY season.............. or one very very close to it & he'd more than likely get his money.............most likely from the Texans. Problem solved imo.
 
Mr teX said:
Thing is Clowney controls/controlled all this. I don't think the FO would be using this injury thing against him if he already had skins on the wall like the dudes he's trying to be paid like.
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Do we know the Texans are using this "injury thing" against him?

He's been relatively healthy the last three years. We (the fans, myself included) are factoring in longevity, but I don't know the Texans are.
 
Mr teX said:
Thing is Clowney controls/controlled all this. I don't think the FO would be using this injury thing against him if he already had skins on the wall like the dudes he's trying to be paid like. He's got arguably more talent than both Mack & Donald & all he has to do is come through this year with a DPOY season.............. or one very very close to it & he'd more than likely get his money.............most likely from the Texans. Problem solved imo.
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3 straight Probowls and leading a top defense when it’s HoF DE broke down isn’t skins on the wall?
 
PapaL said:
3 straight Probowls and leading a top defense when it’s HoF DE broke down isn’t skins on the wall?
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infantrycak said:
Not compared to Mack with 4 pro bowls & 3 All Pros or Donald with 5 pro bowls & 4 All Pros.
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Pretty much.

While I think Clowney is Elite, he's not top-tier Elite. Part of my argument against him getting pure top-DE $$ is sacks.
Even with that though, Pro Football Reference considers Clowney a DE, but he has yet to break the 10-sack mark in 5 seasons.
Khalil Mack as an OLB? Broke it 4 out of 5 seasons. DPOY 2016
Donald as a DT? Broke it 3 out of 5 seasons, with the last >20. 2014 DROY, 2017/2018 DPOY

Another big talking point is TFL. Clowney's high-water mark is 21.
Mack - 23
Donald - 25

Tackles in general (Combo or Solo) isn't even close...even when only using Clowney's 3 most recent (healthy) seasons.

That's damn elite company to "demand" as an equivalent offer.
 
infantrycak said:
Not compared to Mack with 4 pro bowls & 3 All Pros or Donald with 5 pro bowls & 4 All Pros.
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Good job moving the target. It was said he doesn’t have skins. He does. He isn’t JJ in his prime but let’s not act like Clowney is JAG because you’re not happy with the market. Someone is going to pay him.
 
PapaL said:
Good job moving the target. It was said he doesn’t have skins. He does. He isn’t JJ in his prime but let’s not act like Clowney is JAG because you’re not happy with the market. Someone is going to pay him.
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Wasn't moving the target. Some in here are arguing he should get paid like them. He shouldn't. Earlier this offseason some were pointing to guys (Houston for one iirc) and I argued JD is better than them.
 
Although I am a believer he is not a talent of Mack and Donald, 610 had Booger Mcfarland on the other day and he agreed but made a good point that paydays are about timing not where you are in the hierarchy. Prescott in Dallas will be the example, lucky if he is top ten, but his turn to get paid and the market keeps rising so he will likely be the top paid QB (no way I do that), but he says that is just the way it is. So in some people's minds, you cannot quite slot a person where they produce, but rather what is the going rate and suck it up. Was a twist I don;t quite agree with but looking at some contracts I get his point and this is probably what Clowney's team is using
 
He's partially correct. Players will jump some older contracts. He's wrong if he thinks either Prescott or JD jump all the way to top.
 
infantrycak said:
Huh? 1st 2 seasons they list as LB, last 3 as DE/LB.
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Yeah, I thought it was weird, but that's what their "default" is now for JDC.

Jadeveon Clowney
Jadeveon Clowney (Doo-Doo)

Position: DE

6-5, 255lb (196cm, 115kg)

Team: Houston Texans
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Rich Schmidt said:
Although I am a believer he is not a talent of Mack and Donald, 610 had Booger Mcfarland on the other day and he agreed but made a good point that paydays are about timing not where you are in the hierarchy. Prescott in Dallas will be the example, lucky if he is top ten, but his turn to get paid and the market keeps rising so he will likely be the top paid QB (no way I do that), but he says that is just the way it is. So in some people's minds, you cannot quite slot a person where they produce, but rather what is the going rate and suck it up. Was a twist I don;t quite agree with but looking at some contracts I get his point and this is probably what Clowney's team is using
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I agree with that year over year. With both the Mack and Donald deals fresh in everyone's mind, he wasn't likely to pull that kind of payday. This upcoming off-season? I wouldn't be shocked at all if his deal was a front-loaded deal > the 6/141 extension to Mack.
 
PapaL said:
Good job moving the target. It was said he doesn’t have skins. He does. He isn’t JJ in his prime but let’s not act like Clowney is JAG because you’re not happy with the market. Someone is going to pay him.
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You're going to be hitting record long FGs in this thread my guy those goalposts just keep getting moved further and further back!

Rich Schmidt said:
Although I am a believer he is not a talent of Mack and Donald, 610 had Booger Mcfarland on the other day and he agreed but made a good point that paydays are about timing not where you are in the hierarchy. Prescott in Dallas will be the example, lucky if he is top ten, but his turn to get paid and the market keeps rising so he will likely be the top paid QB (no way I do that), but he says that is just the way it is. So in some people's minds, you cannot quite slot a person where they produce, but rather what is the going rate and suck it up. Was a twist I don;t quite agree with but looking at some contracts I get his point and this is probably what Clowney's team is using
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LOL NO WAY! What does Booger McFArland know anyway right? Just a talking head. :rolleyes:
 
Rich Schmidt said:
Although I am a believer he is not a talent of Mack and Donald, 610 had Booger Mcfarland on the other day and he agreed but made a good point that paydays are about timing not where you are in the hierarchy. Prescott in Dallas will be the example, lucky if he is top ten, but his turn to get paid and the market keeps rising so he will likely be the top paid QB (no way I do that), but he says that is just the way it is. So in some people's minds, you cannot quite slot a person where they produce, but rather what is the going rate and suck it up. Was a twist I don;t quite agree with but looking at some contracts I get his point and this is probably what Clowney's team is using
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He's partially correct, but that effect usually bears out more over a few years. For instance, Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford and then Aaron Rodgers recently all at 1 point signed extensions that made them the highest paid qb's/players in league history. Well, of course 1 of those guys isn't like the others & it happened over the course of like 4 years with guys from 3 different drafts....its just inflation.

What makes JDC situation somewhat unique & it kind of hurts him is that he doesn't have that inflation factor b/c he Donald & Mack were all taken in the same damn draft...which is crazy imo. & yet he's vying for the same type of money of top tier guys with real skins on the wall that he just hasn't matched.

Its important to note, noone here is arguing he shouldn't get paid, what we're arguing is he shouldn't be paid like Donald & Mack..
 
Rich Schmidt said:
Booger Mcfarland on the other day and he agreed but made a good point that paydays are about timing not where you are in the hierarchy.
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& I agree with that. I don't know if JD is in the top 10 of DEs or OLBs in the league, but I don't have a problem with him getting paid like he is. That's the game & the system they have in place.

My issue is paying him as the best or top 5. Imo he is way too far outside that group.
 
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