So is the moral of this story, have 5-ten 4/5 star guys then fill in the rest of the pieces with draft picks and high end short term guys.
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Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League
- Thread starter CloakNNNdagger
- Start date
So is the moral of this story, have 5-ten 4/5 star guys then fill in the rest of the pieces with draft picks and high end short term guys.
Because they drafted Von Miller instead of making Dummerville a highly paid can of ass whup'n.
Denver's cap, Texan's cap
Peyton's cap hit is $3M more than Andre's = Bronco's + $3M
Schaub's cap hit is $2M more than Clady's = Bronco's + $1M
Jjo's cap hit is $3M more than Welker's = Texans + $2M
Foster's cap hit is $1M more than Vasquez's = Texans + $3M
Duane Brown's cap hit is $2M more than Von Miller's = Texans + $5M
Chris Myer's cap hit is $1M more than Chris Kuper's = Texans + $6M
Daniel Manning, $1M more than DeMarius Thomas = Texans + $7M
Cushing, $1M more than Matt Praeter = Texans + $8M
Kareem, $0.5M more than Jacob Tamme = Texans +$8.5M
Jj Watt, $1M more than Colquitt = Texans + $9.5M
Dressen, $1M more than Lechler = Texans + $8.5M
Knighton, $0.8M more than Mercilus = Texans + $7.3M
Ramirez, $0.8M more than Hopkins = Texans + $
You get the idea.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
No one talked about broncos line until they played seattle. Nobody gave a hoot about the all pro clady not playing until they played seattle.Know why? The qb. The patriots had great ol play until they played the giants dl. The broncos have a lot of players on rookie contracts. The tebow playoff year was laced with rookies. They ditched him, got a atg and they stil have guys on rookie deals.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Well the moral was supposed to be things aren't what they seem at first blush.
But another one is when those 4/5 star guys are the ones who go down or underperform you're screwed. Of our top paid guys only two played healthy last year - AJ and Myers. All injuries are not created and that is not an excuse it is reality.
Well bringing up Dumervil makes a good point. They didn't mean to let him go. Their cap wasn't designed to have as much space as it does this year. If his agent had returned the contract on time they'd have $7 mil or so less in open cap.
Most of their stars are still on their rookie contracts. Knowshon, Julius Thomas, Eric Decker.
Knowshon & Decker aren't counted in that $27M, neither are Cromartie, Champ Bailey, Robert Ayers, or Zack Beadles......
Strip our team down as much as theirs is now... it's more similar than you think.
I agree with you on the 2nd through 4th round picks... mostly. I'm starting to think we've got talented players wasting away because the rift between Kubiak & Smith might be deeper than we thought. Tate (in the doghouse), Brandon Harris (doghouse), Sam Montgomery (may never have gotten a fair shot), I'm sure there are more.
But managing the cap hasn't been a "big" issue. He stumbled a little in the 2012 season, but a lot of the contending teams did, making the same assumption that the salary camp would go up after the lockout year... look what happened to Dallas & Washington for extreme examples.
& yes, I know a lot of people want to point to Schaub's contract as a mistake, but Slick Rick didn't put himself in a situation where he would have to pay Schaub $100M like Baltimore, Atlanta, & Dallas did. They're married to QBs that did not help their teams even make the play offs.... same as us, but we can dump Schaub this year & save $10M. This is just 2 years after signing the contract in the first place. If you can get past the hate, you'd appreciate the genius.
The only difference between Schaub & those guys in 2013 (other than the pick 6 record) was that McNair didn't give Schaub the opportunity to polish a turd of a season; we got the #1 pick, Atlanta is outside the top 5, & both Dallas & Baltimore are outside the top 15.
You're right, I forgot about that. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt, when it was his agent that screwed the pooch.
Troy Chapman
Rookie
Demariyus Thomas is on a rookie deal as well. They have drafted well lately. Miller will be due a contract after 2014, same with D. Thomas.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
There have been many here that have given good explanations of how the June 1st cuts work. Spotrac uses Miles Austin to put a simple to follow path. Worth reading if you're still confused.
Understanding 2014 Post June 1st Cuts
Understanding 2014 Post June 1st Cuts
Troy Chapman
Rookie
Great take on 790 by John Harris just now. If the window for the Texans to make a run at the Superbowl is unknown, then why spend money on big free agents today?
My opinion is that money spent on big name free agents with a team that isn't posed to make a run is wasted money. McNair can speak with his "win now" mentality to the fans but those that are paying attention know it will be a minimum of 2-3 years to get back. 2015 and 2016 might be the time to spend some money as we get our pick of high draft picks. The last time the Texans had the #1 pick (2006) that was arguably the best draft class in franchise history. Hopefully we can say the same thing about 2014 which will allow us to spend money in 2015-2017.
My opinion is that money spent on big name free agents with a team that isn't posed to make a run is wasted money. McNair can speak with his "win now" mentality to the fans but those that are paying attention know it will be a minimum of 2-3 years to get back. 2015 and 2016 might be the time to spend some money as we get our pick of high draft picks. The last time the Texans had the #1 pick (2006) that was arguably the best draft class in franchise history. Hopefully we can say the same thing about 2014 which will allow us to spend money in 2015-2017.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Read bottom to top.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Denver will be releasing and restructuring to make this happen and get rookies signed. Definitely win now mode.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
You've pointed out that they are losing a ton of players.
Right now their corners are Talib and Tony Carter. Is that better than DRC, Champ, Harris, and Carter from last year? Also, who is their second safety? Any depth there? They need a new guard, RB and a new ILB. They are adding but also subtracting a lot.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I still can't believe that Denver took on Talib and Ware.
As I've posted before, injury-riddled Talib has never played a 16 game season..........he has missed 25 games in 3 years.
Ware was slowed by several injuries during the 2012 season. He wore a brace on his elbow and a harness to protect his shoulder, and he admited the injuries prevented him from performing the way he is accustomed. He had only 1.5 sacks the last six games to finish with 11.5. The most significant injuries were the injuries to his right arm culminated when he hyperextended his right elbow which resulted in a dislocation in a December game against the Bengals and later injured his right shoulder against the Saints. The torn posterior labrum of his shoulder was repaired Jan. 10. During that same procedure, he also required right elbow surgery for bone fragments in the joint.
He sustained a re-injury of his shoulder in the beginning of the 2013 season, then suffered a significant quad tear (which Ware and the Boys reported as "a little tweak") that caused him to miss 3 games. He was brought back too soon, was virtually dragging his leg during the game......and reinjured the same quad. It was also revealed that he had been dealing with nagging bad back for quite a while, and that despite his elbow giving him more problems, he opted to avoid surgery. As a result, 2013 brought him a total of only 6 sacks.
On February 18th of this year, Ware underwent formal right elbow surgery to address NERVE issues, most likely including an ulnar nerve transposition. These surgeries have failure rates as high as 25-40%. Ed Reed II anyone?
As I've posted before, injury-riddled Talib has never played a 16 game season..........he has missed 25 games in 3 years.
Ware was slowed by several injuries during the 2012 season. He wore a brace on his elbow and a harness to protect his shoulder, and he admited the injuries prevented him from performing the way he is accustomed. He had only 1.5 sacks the last six games to finish with 11.5. The most significant injuries were the injuries to his right arm culminated when he hyperextended his right elbow which resulted in a dislocation in a December game against the Bengals and later injured his right shoulder against the Saints. The torn posterior labrum of his shoulder was repaired Jan. 10. During that same procedure, he also required right elbow surgery for bone fragments in the joint.
He sustained a re-injury of his shoulder in the beginning of the 2013 season, then suffered a significant quad tear (which Ware and the Boys reported as "a little tweak") that caused him to miss 3 games. He was brought back too soon, was virtually dragging his leg during the game......and reinjured the same quad. It was also revealed that he had been dealing with nagging bad back for quite a while, and that despite his elbow giving him more problems, he opted to avoid surgery. As a result, 2013 brought him a total of only 6 sacks.
On February 18th of this year, Ware underwent formal right elbow surgery to address NERVE issues, most likely including an ulnar nerve transposition. These surgeries have failure rates as high as 25-40%. Ed Reed II anyone?
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
I think part of the reason Denver wanted Talib is that it takes him away from the Patriots. It's not often that you can sign a key player from your biggest challenger, and in this case there weren't many good CBs left on the market. They did it last year with Welker too, and that was a huge loss for the Patriots. Had Revis been cut earlier in free agency, it might have played out differently.
I agree that Ware is a big risk, but I think they might put him on the weakside and let Von Miller be the SOLB. He might work out, but I agree it has a lot of bust potential.
I agree that Ware is a big risk, but I think they might put him on the weakside and let Von Miller be the SOLB. He might work out, but I agree it has a lot of bust potential.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Well that part didn't exactly work out for them then. NE avoids a long-term commitment to Talib and actually upgrades at the position with Revis. DEN gives a 6-year contract to Talib, who has really struggled with injuries recently. I'd say NE won that one.
I'm a big fan of Ward, but he has also struggled with injuries as well. If he's healthy though they are a lot better.
I actually like the Ware signing. He was injured last year, but he's been an ironman for most of his career. He should really help them up front.
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=114816
We need a spreadsheet like this on Texans Talk and sticky it, so people will have less questions, and it gives us a better idea of the cap space.
Any volunteers or mods to do this please ?
We need a spreadsheet like this on Texans Talk and sticky it, so people will have less questions, and it gives us a better idea of the cap space.
Any volunteers or mods to do this please ?
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Slightly different format, but better than this board will allow. It doesn't do spreadsheets well.
http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans
SAMURAITEXAN
All Pro
If no Matt taker soon(No trade), what Texans can do is work some of $22 Mil now as your cap space and sign FA now should there be someone our coaching staff or FO want. I read somewhere that you can put someone as your June 1st cut and able to work that cap space now if you need it.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
I understand this, but keep in mind that even if he was to end up as a June 1 cut, unless the Texans actually spend that money on 2014 contracts, it would roll over to next years cap.
Texian
Hall of Fame
now that the Texans have traded Schaub, Jun 1 cut will not happen. The full amount of dead money will be applied to 2014. Same situation happened when Texans traded DeMeco.
Troy Chapman
Rookie
I'm coming up with $10.8m cap space after the Schaub trade, Fitz signing and Powe signing. Will need to wait until about Tuesday before the NFLPA report is up to date.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I think it's about 10.5M. The Fitz cap hit should be pretty close to the cap savings we get from the Schaub deal, this year anyway. Next year is where we will really feel the benefit.
Troy Chapman
Rookie
According to John McClain
Cause of bonuses, Schaub's base for 2014 is now $10.93 million, which will be wiped off the Texans' books.
When Schaub traded, Texans will add $3.93 million to their cap, making them $10.2 mil under cap, plenty of room to sign FAs if they want.
According to overthecap.com, after Schaub trade we are 9.6M under the cap. Next year, we will have 41M
http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans
Cause of bonuses, Schaub's base for 2014 is now $10.93 million, which will be wiped off the Texans' books.
When Schaub traded, Texans will add $3.93 million to their cap, making them $10.2 mil under cap, plenty of room to sign FAs if they want.
According to overthecap.com, after Schaub trade we are 9.6M under the cap. Next year, we will have 41M
http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
According to John McClain
Cause of bonuses, Schaub's base for 2014 is now $10.93 million, which will be wiped off the Texans' books.
When Schaub traded, Texans will add $3.93 million to their cap, making them $10.2 mil under cap, plenty of room to sign FAs if they want.
According to overthecap.com, after Schaub trade we are 9.6M under the cap. Next year, we will have 41M
http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans
And, yet, it STILL won't be enough to sign JJ.
According to overthecap.com, after Schaub trade we are 9.6M under the cap. Next year, we will have 41M
http://overthecap.com/calculator/?Team=Texans
Understand we're quite a few players shy of 53 at the moment. Just about everyone we pick up (Fitz & Powe) will eat into that $41M. Our draft picks alone will probably count for $7M or so.
After we fill out our roster, I expect to have about $20M.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
There is little chance we spend 20M+ of our cap for next year during this off season. Maybe if we resign JJ this offseason or during the season and you add in draft picks plus small signings. Who are you expecting us to sign that will eat that much of next year's cap? Our rookies from last year cost about 5M toward our cap this year, so a guess of 7M is probably a pretty good one. But, what else are you expecting?
I don't know who in particular, but there'll probably be someone who gets cut after June 1st that we'll pick up.
If you're good with the $7M number for our rookies, $13 million for four to six FAs shouldn't sound unreasonable. I wouldn't think.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I think it's reasonable if you add in Watt, but I don't expect to sign 4 guys to 3M per year contracts. I could be wrong though, obviously.
Are you expecting JJ to get a 100M contract like Mario got from Bills ?
dream_team
Hall of Fame
I am. I'm expecting JJ to be the highest paid defensive player in the league.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I'm expecting JJ Watt and his agent to command something in the neighborhood of $20 million per year. I expect JJ Watt to become the highest paid defensive player in the NFL.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I was actually kinda joking because I'm sure there are going to be people saying that. I should have put the kitten smilie on that.
But.
I wouldn't be surprised if JJ gets a very, very large contract. It could be in the 100M range.
Given our 11 picks that $9million should be enough to sign all of our rookies. In other words we are about done in free agency, but I am no cap expert, can someone confirm?
here is the pool estimate which may work better
http://overthecap.com/2014-rookie-pool-estimates.php
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
So we've still got a little room to play.
yep same type of signings we have been making...and that does not include the either full or partial cap saving from Manning's cut or restructure.
What's the difference between the Year One Pool & the Cap Space Required?
And are the undrafted F/As (we have had 8-12, maybe more, of them) accounted for in this tally or just the 11 std. picks?
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
ftfy
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Yes JJ is going to get a huge contract. But not $20 mil average. The franchise tag for DE's is $13.1 and that is $1.7 over the next highest defensive position.
$20 is too high.
Manning - $19.2
Brady - $14.12
Brees - $20
Flacco - $20.1
Something in the $16 ballpark* with tons of it guaranteed is a plausible forecast.
*Mario is at $16. Look for a "highest paid" that looks more like Flacco to Brees.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
UDFA's will for the most part be getting the rookie minimum base salary with little to no bonus, and as such will not impact the cap much if at all since it only counts the highest 51 players prior to the season starting.
Troy Chapman
Rookie
Yep. The 51st contract cap hit is $495k right now. Undrafted rookies will be signed to that or less with no guaranteed. Will not affect the Top 51 cap numbers.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
$13.5 M, iirc.