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Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League

Texian said:
There you go, I stand corrected. So if you're correct, Schaub's 2014 dead money would be $3.5 million and his 2015 dead money would be $7 million? Correct?
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That's the way I interpret the June 1 designation. Along with carrying his full cap hit until June 1. If Schaub is released (which may not happen now) I'm in favor of taking on all $10.5 million of dead money now in 2014 and move on.
 
thunderkyss said:
How did we lose $4M by cutting Schaub when you already figured the money in?

I understand adding another head to the count, but you said cutting Schaub was already factored into the money. You're also cheating me on moving $7.5M to 2015, not 50% or $5M. So that's the original $12M you quoted after cutting Schaub plus $2.5M you cheated me & we have $14.5M

We're still going to have depth issues, I'm not denying that. I wish we could spend $5M on every player we add like Indy can... but I agree we don't have the cap space to do that. We'll just have to find a way to get a lot out of cheap contracts the way they've done the past two years.

But we keep OD, we Keep Manning, we've got Brian Cushing coming back & we didn't have to cut Jjo..... so I'm still fielding a competent team with eight 1st & 2nd round picks & high dollar FAs.

We sign our first round pick for about $5M cap hit (your number) & the other 6 for about $3M, total of $8M leaving us $6M.

I don't expect us to be very active in FA.

But we can still & should cut Brice McCain & Derek Newton for another $2M. We can cut OD, we can get Andre, Jjo, Foster, & Myers to restructure if we have to..... not saying that we should, but if we have to.

Eh... not on my agenda to make him the highest paid defensive player in the league. I want to pay him well, but I want to win more. & overpaying does not help.
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It's hard for me to keep up with all your hypotheticals. I do believe you're living in some kind of Fantasy Land but you are definitely NOT LACKING in ENTHUSIASM and OPTIMISM. Your cup runneth over.
 
Troy Chapman said:
That's the way I interpret the June 1 designation. Along with carrying his full cap hit until June 1. If Schaub is released (which may not happen now) I'm in favor of taking on all $10.5 million of dead money now in 2014 and move on.
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I am in full agreement with your assessment and solution. I am not a fan of, Short Term Gain = Long Term PAIN. It's the primary cause and effect of the Texans that has created many of their problems today.
 
Texian said:
I am in full agreement with your assessment and solution. I am not a fan of, Short Term Gain = Long Term PAIN. It's the primary cause and effect of the Texans that has created many of their problems today.
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I've always been an advocate of suffer now - play later , than play now suffer later. This pretty much separates the good franchises from the rest, and something Ol Slick Rick does not seem to understand.


Your man... Pots and pans
 
Texian said:
I am in full agreement with your assessment and solution. I am not a fan of, Short Term Gain = Long Term PAIN. It's the primary cause and effect of the Texans that has created many of their problems today.
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But you can't provide any examples where that philosophy has hurt us.

We don't make a habit of paying for people who are no longer here. There was no dead money for players no longer on the roster in 2013.

Unless you're talking about paying Antonio Smith $8M in the last year of his contract & Wade Smith $5M in the last year of his when their salaries were much lower in the first years.....

But since you point to Gosder Cherilus' contract as a model of success, which is structured the exact same way.... that can't be what you're saying.
 
thunderkyss said:
Eh... not on my agenda to make him the highest paid defensive player in the league. I want to pay him well, but I want to win more. & overpaying does not help.
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I just don't understand this philosophy. If you want to win then you pay the guys who deserve it. It doesn't matter if you don't think he's worth that much. The market determines his worth.

Overpaying is one thing, but letting the best defensive player in the league walk away because you won't pay him market value is completely different.
 
thunderkyss said:
But you can't provide any examples where that philosophy has hurt us.

We don't make a habit of paying for people who are no longer here. There was no dead money for players no longer on the roster in 2013.

Unless you're talking about paying Antonio Smith $8M in the last year of his contract & Wade Smith $5M in the last year of his when their salaries were much lower in the first years.....

But since you point to Gosder Cherilus' contract as a model of success, which is structured the exact same way.... that can't be what you're saying.
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For starters cutting a handful of players and trading Ryans to pay Foster when he could've tendered.

Here is the primary example: For the last 3 years the Texans have NOT had enough salary cap space to sign any notable Free agents except vet minimums. ANd the only way they have been able to complete their 53 man roster is after they have restructured player contract(s) (borrowing money). This is the Texans bad habit. Short Term Gain in exchange FOR Long Term PAIN. Contrary to popular belief a team CANNOT live by the draft alone.
 
thunderkyss said:
But you can't provide any examples where that philosophy has hurt us.

We don't make a habit of paying for people who are no longer here. There was no dead money for players no longer on the roster in 2013.

Unless you're talking about paying Antonio Smith $8M in the last year of his contract & Wade Smith $5M in the last year of his when their salaries were much lower in the first years.....

But since you point to Gosder Cherilus' contract as a model of success, which is structured the exact same way.... that can't be what you're saying.
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Kevin Walter counted $2 million dead money against the 2013 cap.
 
Despite the "win now" mentality of McNair at the end of last year....my thoughts were to release Schaub. Renegotiate with Joseph. Let Graham walk. Retain OD and Manning. Take all possible dead money into the 2014 cap. Come out in 2015 with a good chunk of money available.
 
Troy Chapman said:
Despite the "win now" mentality of McNair at the end of last year....my thoughts were to release Schaub. Renegotiate with Joseph. Let Graham walk. Retain OD and Manning. Take all possible dead money into the 2014 cap. Come out in 2015 with a good chunk of money available.
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Seems like a good plan to me except I would let OD walk too if it gave me enough $$$$ to sign Soliai. That guy's a stud and would argurably help the team improve more than keeping OD. You can draft A.C. Leonard in the 5th and Najvar in the 7th and have a better TE group, plus get Soliai. Griffin looked like a reasonable replacement for OD last yr.
 
Texian said:
Here is the primary example: For the last 3 years the Texans have NOT had enough salary cap space to sign any notable Free agents except vet minimums.
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You would think you would try to find a primary example that bore some semblance to truth. Past three offseasons include signings of:

JJo
Manning
Ed Reed (yeah it sucked but that's irrelevant to your point)
Lechler
Derrick Ward
Mays - 154% of vet min.
Leinart
Vickers

That's on top of new contracts for key players in a tighter than normal time period.

Troy Chapman said:
Kevin Walter counted $2 million dead money against the 2013 cap.
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Every team in the league has minor dead money like that except in rare years. The $3.5 mil the Texans carried is guat.
 
Troy Chapman said:
Despite the "win now" mentality of McNair at the end of last year....my thoughts were to release Schaub. Renegotiate with Joseph. Let Graham walk. Retain OD and Manning. Take all possible dead money into the 2014 cap. Come out in 2015 with a good chunk of money available.
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Using the calculator at OTC that puts us at $23M under the cap for 2014 & $43M under the cap for 2015 with those moves.

So I'm assuming you're ok with $23M for this year & $43M for next season. But you're going to have to find a replacement for OD & Daniel Manning. Not a big thing for you because you're not looking to win very much in 2014.


If instead, we make Schaub a June 1st cut, cut Derek Newton, & cut Brice McCain that would put us at $20M below the cap for 2014 & $42M under the cap for 2015. I know you can cut McCain & Newton in your scenario as well, but I just wanted to put those numbers side by side..... We can get the money we need for this offseason & making Schaub a June 1st cut doesn't hurt us as bad next year as some of us think.

I can still renegotiate with Joseph, but if you look at our numbers, that hurts as much as taking a June 1st cut on Schaub.

I can still cut OD, or DMan, or both & keep Joseph on track with a contract expiring after the 2015 season.


The cap for 2015 is already going to go up $10M compared to this season. Making Schaub a June 1st cut simply reduces it to $3M for us.... but it's money we never had anyway. The cap then goes up again in 2016, we'll save $19M for cutting Schaub now plus the imaginary $7M that we didn't realize in 2015 (because Schaub was a June 1st 2014 cut) plus another $10M for that league year. $19M+$7M+$10M= $36M untouched dollars that you can offer Jj Watt in a front loaded contract if you want to make him the highest paid defensive player in history.
 
thunderkyss said:
Using the calculator at OTC that puts us at $23M under the cap for 2014 & $43M under the cap for 2015 with those moves.

So I'm assuming you're ok with $23M for this year & $43M for next season. But you're going to have to find a replacement for OD & Daniel Manning. Not a big thing for you because you're not looking to win very much in 2014.


If instead, we make Schaub a June 1st cut, cut Derek Newton, & cut Brice McCain that would put us at $20M below the cap for 2014 & $42M under the cap for 2015. I know you can cut McCain & Newton in your scenario as well, but I just wanted to put those numbers side by side..... We can get the money we need for this offseason & making Schaub a June 1st cut doesn't hurt us as bad next year as some of us think.

I can still renegotiate with Joseph, but if you look at our numbers, that hurts as much as taking a June 1st cut on Schaub.

I can still cut OD, or DMan, or both & keep Joseph on track with a contract expiring after the 2015 season.


The cap for 2015 is already going to go up $10M compared to this season. Making Schaub a June 1st cut simply reduces it to $3M for us.... but it's money we never had anyway. The cap then goes up again in 2016, we'll save $19M for cutting Schaub now plus the imaginary $7M that we didn't realize in 2015 (because Schaub was a June 1st 2014 cut) plus another $10M for that league year. $19M+$7M+$10M= $36M untouched dollars that you can offer Jj Watt in a front loaded contract if you want to make him the highest paid defensive player in history.
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Nowhere did I say we release Daniels or Manning. I said retain them for the final year of their contract in 2014. My suggestion was only the Schaub release. Renegotiate (not restructure) with Joseph if possible. Everyone else stays.

Not sure what you are trying to say in your reply to me? In your scenario with McCain and Newton you just cut depth that were cheap to pay....still have to find their replacements at probably the same pay with some performance. Newton can stay, won't start, but he can provide depth that has playing time in the event of an injury. Only save about $2 mil by releasing McCain and Newton. Plus Newton is in the final year of his contract. Might as well use them as depth.
 
I am confident we will have $ to sign good FAs but concern whether good FAs will be available. Many of those I would like will be signed elsewhere.
 
Troy Chapman said:
Nowhere did I say we release Daniels or Manning. I said retain them for the final year of their contract in 2014. My suggestion was only the Schaub release. Renegotiate (not restructure) with Joseph if possible. Everyone else stays.
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In that case.. I was wrong.

Troy Chapman said:
Not sure what you are trying to say in your reply to me? In your scenario with McCain and Newton you just cut depth that were cheap to pay....still have to find their replacements at probably the same pay with some performance. Newton can stay, won't start, but he can provide depth that has playing time in the event of an injury. Only save about $2 mil by releasing McCain and Newton. Plus Newton is in the final year of his contract. Might as well use them as depth.
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I don't mean any offense, just talking.

Newton is going to make $1.4M next year. McCain $1.3M..... my pockets obviously aren't as deep as yours. I want to replace Newton with our 1st overall draft pick. McCain... I've always liked Brandon Harris better & he's cheaper. We've got Josh Victorian & Loyce Means on the roster making $500K or less already... that's what McCain should have been making, that's what his replacement should be making.

I'm replying to you, because it sounds like you thought out your response, I just wanted to put numbers to it to see how effective your moves can be. & provide the link to the overthecap salarycap calculator.

Cutting Schaub & Renegotiating Jjo, retaining OD & DMan brings us to $14M in 2014 & $43M in 2015... if you go with Texian's numbers, that $14M is really $9M after you take out the set aside money for IR replacements. the practice squad, & LTBEs..... again, according to Texian, we need about $13M to address our needs this offseason including signing our draft picks (~$8M).

We're practically in the same place by making Schaub a June 1st cut & not restructuring Jjo.
 
thunderkyss said:
In that case.. I was wrong.



I don't mean any offense, just talking.

Newton is going to make $1.4M next year. McCain $1.3M..... my pockets obviously aren't as deep as yours. I want to replace Newton with our 1st overall draft pick. McCain... I've always liked Brandon Harris better & he's cheaper. We've got Josh Victorian & Loyce Means on the roster making $500K or less already... that's what McCain should have been making, that's what his replacement should be making.

I'm replying to you, because it sounds like you thought out your response, I just wanted to put numbers to it to see how effective your moves can be. & provide the link to the overthecap salarycap calculator.

Cutting Schaub & Renegotiating Jjo, retaining OD & DMan brings us to $14M in 2014 & $43M in 2015... if you go with Texian's numbers, that $14M is really $9M after you take out the set aside money for IR replacements. the practice squad, & LTBEs..... again, according to Texian, we need about $13M to address our needs this offseason including signing our draft picks (~$8M).

We're practically in the same place by making Schaub a June 1st cut & not restructuring Jjo.
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No offense taken, salary cap is probably my favorite subject in football. I think you can get Newton's replacement in the 3rd or 4th round....no need to spend the first on a RT. No telling what B. Williams might do as well but I am not confident in him. But you need the depth...and lets be honest Newton has playing time and would be able to step in if needed.

As for McCain, you keep him for now into TC. If Means, or Lemon or Harris or one of the younger players beats out McCain...then by all means send him packing. McCain probably has a small roster bonus. Something I am willing to eat in dead money to give him another shot at TC. We have a lot of young players coming off IR probably ready to take down the vets.

With the way the QB free agents are playing out...I gotta think Smith is talking to Schaub to get him to take a reduction in pay with some incentives if he wins the starting job. I know the city wants him gone but at this point Schaub is probably the better option for a veteran QB. I would like to see his base salary lowered from $10.5m to say $5m and remove his active game bonus...replace that with statistical goals and playoff appearances.
 
Troy Chapman said:
No offense taken, salary cap is probably my favorite subject in football. I think you can get Newton's replacement in the 3rd or 4th round....no need to spend the first on a RT. No telling what B. Williams might do as well but I am not confident in him. But you need the depth...and lets be honest Newton has playing time and would be able to step in if needed.
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With the new CBA & pay structure for rookies it makes all the sense in the world to take the best OT with the #1 overall. As it stands now, our season is over if we lose Duane Brown. Not the case, if Robinson is the man we think he is.... that's this year, next year, & the year after. Unless of course you get a Peyton Manning or a Russell Wilson, then it's not such a big deal.

& if Newton has to come in the game... honestly, there was not one play where I saw him & say.... "Why can't you keep doing that." or "If you could do that one more time."

Understand, I was pretty high on Newton until he got hurt in Detroit (I think it was Detroit) in 2012.... since then, not so much.

Troy Chapman said:
As for McCain, you keep him for now into TC. If Means, or Lemon or Harris or one of the younger players beats out McCain...then by all means send him packing. McCain probably has a small roster bonus. Something I am willing to eat in dead money to give him another shot at TC. We have a lot of young players coming off IR probably ready to take down the vets.
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I'm cool with that, but we don't have to eat his roster bonus unless he's on the roster when the season starts. There's some dead money in there whether we cut him today or Sept 8th.... so yeah, I don't have a problem carrying him through camp.

Troy Chapman said:
With the way the QB free agents are playing out...I gotta think Smith is talking to Schaub to get him to take a reduction in pay with some incentives if he wins the starting job. I know the city wants him gone but at this point Schaub is probably the better option for a veteran QB. I would like to see his base salary lowered from $10.5m to say $5m and remove his active game bonus...replace that with statistical goals and playoff appearances.
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A big enough reduction is the best way to go imo, we can still free up $10M for 2014 & if we make him a June 1, 2015 cut it's only $3.5M of dead money for 2015 & 2016. IMO it maximizes the dollars available over the next three years.
 
Understood about Robinson and protecting the depth behind D. Brown. Robinson could be used like Eric Fisher...keep him at RT until D. Brown is gone and you move him over. 4 (or 5 year) window of two outstanding tackles. That is hard to pass up for the price you would be paying. Just not who I would want at #1, but that is another topic.

Point taken on the June 1 with Schaub. I'm just not in favor of carrying that full 14.5 through the free agency period up to June 1, despite the savings spread over two years. A month ago I was full on cut bait and go. Now I'm really thinking he stays, hopefully with that pay reduction.

On the McCain roster bonus, I was assuming it was an early roster bonus (middle of March). I don't know the specific terms of his contract, and the amount if probably small that does matter very little in the grand scheme of things.
 
The fact of the matter is that this team is handcuffed this year and probably next year as well given the bad contracts we handed out like candy (Schaub and Foster). It's time to pay the piper. How Rick Smith still has a job is beyond me, how does he go and give a RB in a ZBS that sort of contract? How does he give an oft injured QB even more money? It's great that we have the first pick but there is still a year or two of pain left before this team can turn the corner and really retool the roster
 
Good discussion TroyChapman.....

On another note & not directed towards anyone in particular, but just to ramble a little bit.

Let's imagine I have a fairly decent player that I want to lock up for a few years, so I decide to offer him a contract. We agree to a 5 year arrangement with a total value of $25M/yr. I could pay him $5M/yr for the next 5 years. Simple, clean, easy.

With a salary cap of $120M, that allows me to sign 24 players at $5M/yr. 22 starters, 2 back up players... not so clean. The rules allow me to have 53 players... not so easy, & your pro-bowl players will want more than $5M/yr... not simple. Last year the salary cap was $126M

In 2010 the Texans decided to make Andre Johnson the highest paid WR in the league at that time. For the seven seasons starting in 2010 and ending with the 2016 season, Andre will earn $73.5M roughly $10.5M/yr.... That's what he gets for being the best.

If we were to have paid Andre what he was worth last season, that would have left us with $115.5M to pay the other 52 players that make up the team.

But we went to FA 3 years back to add one of the better CBs (at that time) to our ball club. Five years $48.7M roughly $9.7M...... leaving $105.8M for the remaining 51 players.

We've got a franchise LT who's signed to a 6 year $53.4M or $8.9M/yr.... leaving $96.9M to sign 50 players. Less than $2M/yr.

We can go down the whole roster, but hopefully you can see it is impossible to pay all your players what they "are worth" on an annual basis. Can't do it on a pay as you go basis, not when you're carrying 3 probowlers/All Pro players on defense, 7 on offense, only one of those 10 is playing on his rookie contract. As opposed to the Colts who had 3, maybe 4 players playing at a pro bowl level, all 4 on rookie contracts.

That's why we are in cap heck. We're paying premium dollars for our "star" players, they are not. Our stars did not perform like stars with the exception of Andre Johnson & Jj Watt, for whatever reason. Their scrubs played like All-Pros.

We've got 8 defensive starters that are either 1st round, 2nd round, or high dollar free agents. Jj Watt, Brian Cushing, Johnathan Joseph, Danieal Manning, Dj Swearinger, Kareem Jackson, Whitney Mercilus, & Brooks Reed. Hopefully RAC can add 3 scrubs to that group & find us a starting line-up.

Offensively, we've got 7 probowlers. Hopefully we can add a 1st & 2nd round pick to the group & get back to a top 10 offense..... even if it's only yards.


SalaryCap heck.
 
I've had time to really digest this stuff. If I read right,the texans have 8.3m of cap space for their top 51 players which isn't bad. I've also been trying to se where they can create space. 1st off, I'm not cutting a guy on a rookie deal before the draft. Any money gained from those moves are small by nfl standards. So now that brings me to some of the obvious candidates and their importance to the team and nfl.

Schaub,the lightning rod. As I posted many times, I never thought he was as good as the stats. I think kubiak manipulated him system wise,but I'm not made at schaub. I do think he's solid and can help teams including the texans. I still think the texans should draft Bridgewater at 1,but I think schaub could still be a starter on this team. If they cut schaub,they will gain about $4m short term. With the qb market and the dearth of solid qbs, I think they can get schaubs number to 7m per yr with incentives. That would give the texans 7m of room and if he plays well, his contract is tradeable like alex smith and carson palmer next yr.

JJo. Frankly, it cost too much to cut him. I'm not sure they can restructure him,but they need to get his cap # down to about 5m. I do think JJo and even Kareem will fare better with rac than they did with wade. RAC plays a lot of cover 3,cover 4 as oppsed to man. RAC also likes to invert the cb and safeties,so the cb have to be good tacklers.

Manning, see Joseph.

OD. This is the guy I keep axing. His price vs the cap and his production is why I keep doing it. He's solid,but they have solid and younger guys at that spot. Not to mention, they would have any dead money if they axe him. He's likeable and somewhat productive,but for 6m,not so much.
 
leebigeztx said:
I've had time to really digest this stuff. If I read right,the texans have 8.3m of cap space for their top 51 players which isn't bad. I've also been trying to se where they can create space. 1st off, I'm not cutting a guy on a rookie deal before the draft. Any money gained from those moves are small by nfl standards. So now that brings me to some of the obvious candidates and their importance to the team and nfl.

Schaub,the lightning rod. As I posted many times, I never thought he was as good as the stats. I think kubiak manipulated him system wise,but I'm not made at schaub. I do think he's solid and can help teams including the texans. I still think the texans should draft Bridgewater at 1,but I think schaub could still be a starter on this team. If they cut schaub,they will gain about $4m short term. With the qb market and the dearth of solid qbs, I think they can get schaubs number to 7m per yr with incentives. That would give the texans 7m of room and if he plays well, his contract is tradeable like alex smith and carson palmer next yr.

JJo. Frankly, it cost too much to cut him. I'm not sure they can restructure him,but they need to get his cap # down to about 5m. I do think JJo and even Kareem will fare better with rac than they did with wade. RAC plays a lot of cover 3,cover 4 as oppsed to man. RAC also likes to invert the cb and safeties,so the cb have to be good tacklers.

Manning, see Joseph.

OD. This is the guy I keep axing. His price vs the cap and his production is why I keep doing it. He's solid,but they have solid and younger guys at that spot. Not to mention, they would have any dead money if they axe him. He's likeable and somewhat productive,but for 6m,not so much.
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I think your $7m number on Schaub is off a little. If you got his salary down to $7 million that would save $3 million since his base salary is $10 million this year. But I like your thinking and I agree. A reduction in base salary would be optimal and best for both sides as opposed to release.
 
thunderkyss said:
Good discussion TroyChapman.....
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Yep.

Another point I would like to bring up that contributed to our salary cap number, namely the low amount of carryover from 2013 (and 2012). The Texans have experienced a ton of injuries. Don't forget that every time we had to place someone on IR, they had to pay another player to fill the 53 man roster. And if that player came off the PS, that was additional dead money. I know these replacement players were minimum salaries but after 7-8 players it does eat away at the cap. Next think you know all those extra players ate up a couple million in the cap leaving little to rollover to 2014.
 
im not a fan of cutting manning i think he adds to much veteran leadership and quality in our secondary, however there are a number of decent to good safeties in FA so we might be able to get someone of equal quality for less
 
infantrycak said:
And you keep leaving out of your Colts worship that they are going to spend a bunch of money staying even with last year on players like Vonte Davis, Donald Brown, Adam Vinatieri, Mike McGlynn, Samson Satele, Aubrayo Franklin, Pat Angerer, and Antoine Bethea. Those guys are STARTERS.

In contrast, 3 of the 4 starter FAs the Texans have are actually very conveniently on expiring contracts as they were probably gone for upgrading anyway - Wade Smith, Earl Mitchell and Joe Mays.
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It's perfectly understandable why kool aid drinkers would think that the discussion of the Colts $46 million salary cap as Colts Worship. The non drinkers see it as a dose of reality without a bunch of excuses.

The point that kool aid drinkers don't seem to grasp is the Colts do have more than enough money to re-sign all their players or replace them with free agents if they so choose and the Texans DO NOT.

Kool aid drinkers are also under the illusion that even though the Texans don't have the money to re-sign any of their FA players the Texans will somehow, someway be able to upgrade all the positions lost to free agency with better talent even though all they can afford is vet minimum or a little more.

infantrycak said:
You would think you would try to find a primary example that bore some semblance to truth. Past three offseasons include signings of:

JJo
Manning
Ed Reed (yeah it sucked but that's irrelevant to your point)
Lechler
Derrick Ward
Mays - 154% of vet min.
Leinart
Vickers

That's on top of new contracts for key players in a tighter than normal time period.
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"For the last 3 years the Texans have NOT had enough salary cap space to sign any notable Free agents except vet minimums."

To start, the Texans did not have enough salary cap space to sign Joseph and Manning at the beginning of the 2011 season. This was only made possible AFTER the Texans restructured the contracts of Andre Johnson, DeMeco Ryans and Antonio Smith to become compliant with the salary cap at the beginning of the season. In fact these players could not practice and did sit out a morning practice until their restructured contracts were completed.

Joe Mays did sign for the vet minimum salary of $715K. In addition he received bonuses of $360K, that equated to 50% + of his salary.

The other names you have listed don't really fit what most people would consider "Notable Free Agents". These names are more fitting of lunch pail type players with salaries much closer to vet minimums than what most folks would consider NOTABLE FREE AGENTS or a player who would command a salary of $4 million per year.

Sadly, the Texans have had to restructure contracts the last 3 years to accommodate many of these lunch pail players. The fact remains, the Texans in the last 3 years have NOT had salary cap space available to begin the league year to sign any "notable free agents".
 
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Updated: March 22, 2012, 8:45 PM ET
FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady restructured the remaining three years of his contract, helping the team create $7.2 million in salary cap space this year, a source confirmed.

As part of the restructure, Brady had his 2012 base salary reduced from $5.75 million to $950,000. The team then took the remaining $4.8 million, combined it with a $6 million roster bonus due to him, and gave him a $10.8 million signing bonus.

Brady doesn't have his salary reduced, he just receives the money in a different form.

Patriots owner Robert Kraft, speaking at a community event on Thursday at Gillette Stadium, calling the restructuring a "win-win all-around" for Brady and the team.

"I think we're blessed to have the number one quarterback in the NFL," Kraft said of Brady. "But let's also remember, that when he restructures his deal, he's getting a big bundle of cash up-front. But it is helping us create cap room."
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If the Patriots do the same thing, it can't be bad for business. This is business as usual. We had seven pro bowlers on offense, all of them at least on their second contract.

We had 2 pro bowlers on defense, both big money FAs (Antonio & Jjo). We also had Three former 1st round picks... you have to pay those guys, no way around it.

You either have players.... or you have cap room. We thought we were Super Bowl contenders when the season started. The Colts didn't.

Before 2012, the New England Patriots was the model team Texian said we should pattern ourselves after, the Economics major, Bill Belichick. Now.... it's the Colts.
 
Texian said:
It's perfectly understandable why kool aid drinkers would think that the discussion of the Colts $46 million salary cap as Colts Worship. The non drinkers see it as a dose of reality without a bunch of excuses.

The point that kool aid drinkers don't seem to grasp is the Colts do have more than enough money to re-sign all their players or replace them with free agents if they so choose and the Texans DO NOT.

Kool aid drinkers are also under the allusion that even though the Texans don't have the money to re-sign any of their FA players the Texans will somehow, someway be able to upgrade all the positions lost to free agency with better talent even though all they can afford is vet minimum or a little more.



"For the last 3 years the Texans have NOT had enough salary cap space to sign any notable Free agents except vet minimums."

To start, the Texans did not have enough salary cap space to sign Joseph and Manning at the beginning of the 2011 season. This was only made possible AFTER the Texans restructured the contracts of Andre Johnson, DeMeco Ryans and Antonio Smith to become compliant with the salary cap at the beginning of the season. In fact these players could not practice and did sit out a morning practice until their restructured contracts were completed.

Joe Mays did sign for the vet minimum salary of $715K. In addition he received bonuses of $360K, that equated to 50% + of his salary.

The other names you have listed don't really fit what most people would consider "Notable Free Agents". These names are more fitting of lunch pail type players with salaries much closer to vet minimums than what most folks would consider NOTABLE FREE AGENTS or a player who would command a salary of $4 million per year.

Sadly, the Texans have had to restructure contracts the last 3 years to accommodate many of these lunch pail players. The fact remains, the Texans in the last 3 years have NOT had salary cap space available to begin the league year to sign any "notable free agents".
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The truly sad thing is you have some knowledge and even a point but you constantly obscure them in exaggerated illusions and then when called upon it resort to meaningless diversion ad nauseum.
 
infantrycak said:
The truly sad thing is you have some knowledge and even a point but you constantly obscure them in exaggerated illusions and then when called upon it resort to meaningless diversion ad nauseum.
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Another typical, I Know You're but What am I, response. Not surprised, it was expected.
 
thunderkyss said:

If the Patriots do the same thing, it can't be bad for business. This is business as usual. We had seven pro bowlers on offense, all of them at least on their second contract.

We had 2 pro bowlers on defense, both big money FAs (Antonio & Jjo). We also had Three former 1st round picks... you have to pay those guys, no way around it.

You either have players.... or you have cap room. We thought we were Super Bowl contenders when the season started. The Colts didn't.

Before 2012, the New England Patriots was the model team Texian said we should pattern ourselves after, the Economics major, Bill Belichick. Now.... it's the Colts.
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Not saying this is the wrong way to go.

But many including myself predicted the Texans fall from grace last yr. Just not as bad a fall from grace that happened. SOS + injuries to high level players+bad drafting that lead to lack of depth =2-14. Really who expected Foster to stay healthy all yr? C-N-D told us what was going to happen to Schaub. Gary mishandled the OL injuries, Wade Smith/Newton were shells of themselves and Brown was rushed back from his turf toe injury. Compare that to how the Seahawks handled their OL injury problems and you will see why the Texans offense stunk last yr. Lack of depth/bad drafting was the main cause.

To be a champion you have to follow a champions model. Hopefully BOB has learned this with the Pats.
 
steelbtexan said:
Not saying this is the wrong way to go.

But many including myself predicted the Texans fall from grace last yr. Just not as bad a fall from grace that happened. SOS + injuries to high level players+bad drafting that lead to lack of depth =2-14. Really who expected Foster to stay healthy all yr? C-N-D told us what was going to happen to Schaub. Gary mishandled the OL injuries, Wade Smith/Newton were shells of themselves and Brown was rushed back from his turf toe injury. Compare that to how the Seahawks handled their OL injury problems and you will see why the Texans offense stunk last yr. Lack of depth/bad drafting was the main cause.

To be a champion you have to follow a champions model. Hopefully BOB has learned this with the Pats.
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I've got no problem with anyone who says we had a bunch of bad contracts because we gave the wrong people a lot of money & should have known better.

That's a good argument with mountains of data to back it up.

But to say we've got a bunch of bad contracts because they're back-loaded, when that's standard operating practice for the NFL.

To say we should be like Baltimore with Ozzie Newsome, until they have to dump half their team months after winning the Super Bowl for salary cap issues.

Switch to the Patriots with the economics major Bill Belichick, until he has to restructure the deal he just gave his franchise QB, lose Wes Wellker, & pays a thug millions of dollars before watching him swept away in handcuffs.

Then switch to the Colts who have $80M in cap space two seasons after dumping Harrison, Manning, Freeney, Saturday, Clark, Wayne... then he cites Gosder Cherilus's contract as a model for future NFL contracts when it's the exact same kind of contract he says gets us in trouble.

That's an argument I can't follow & you know me... I can come up with some doozies.
 
So, after today's cuts we will have about $17.5M in cap space, assuming we cut Schaub before June 1st. If we don't cut him at all we have about $13.9M in space. Is that correct?
 
TexansSeminole said:
So, after today's cuts we will have about $17.5M in cap space, assuming we cut Schaub before June 1st. If we don't cut him at all we have about $13.9M in space. Is that correct?
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Cutting Schaub, even before June 1st, would add $4.6M

$22.1M
 
I'm sick and tired of seeing Denver add to their talent base. They just added Aqib Talib, the best cover corner in the game and are supposedly at the top of the list for DeMarcus Ware.

I want the Texans to do whatever they have to get out of this cap situation where they are completely hamstrung. It just builds in excuses for Rick Smith's continual failures. Denver is paying for Peyton Manning, Wes Welker, Von Miller, and a bunch of other stars and they are ADDING talent. We can't get a competent RT to man the position.
 
Playoffs said:
John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL
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This is not a bad place to be... Given that the Texans have Schaub, Myers, Manning, Joseph, AJ all with big cap numbers and shrinking cap hits, the Texans can structure pretty much any deal they want. I wouldn't worry much about cap room. Given a 2-14 season and a new staff, I wouldn't expect a bankload of dollars spent on a single player. It is a roster overhaul. Unlike the last one that began in 2006, this one will not take three years to unwind. The Texans will enter 2014-15 in great cap shape without having to mortgage this season away.
 
The Broncos have the cap space to sign Talib, TJ Ward and are now making a serious push for Demarcus Ware...

How are they in such a better position cap wise than us?! 😭
 
TheRealJoker said:
The Broncos have the cap space to sign Talib, TJ Ward and are now making a serious push for Demarcus Ware...

How are they in such a better position cap wise than us?! 😭
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Not. They are in a "win now" mode. If we had Peyton Manning at age 38, we would be doing the same thing. It makes no sense for a new staff, with a leash, to aggressively go after free agents when they have not had a single live practice with the current players. Look for aggressiveness in FA next year. This year, we will be grabbing familiar players and locker room guys in positions of weakness.... It's how all the good ones do it: Parcells, Belicheck, Schottenheimer, Jimmy Johnson, etc...
 
dalemurphy said:
This is not a bad place to be... Given that the Texans have Schaub, Myers, Manning, Joseph, AJ all with big cap numbers and shrinking cap hits, the Texans can structure pretty much any deal they want. I wouldn't worry much about cap room. Given a 2-14 season and a new staff, I wouldn't expect a bankload of dollars spent on a single player. It is a roster overhaul. Unlike the last one that began in 2006, this one will not take three years to unwind. The Texans will enter 2014-15 in great cap shape without having to mortgage this season away.
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I want us to have flexibility to add pieces if we become a playoff team again in the near future. We are so hamstrung by the cap that our depth was terrible. This is a fundamental flaw that can't be dismissed. I would love to have gone in to the 2012 season with DeMeco and Winston. We have continually gotten weaker since 2011 with is the opposite of what Denver has done.

Rick Smith has failed badly managing the cap and hasn't drafted well in the 2nd-4th rounds which is the lifeblood of where good teams replenish talent. Rick Smith seems to me to not be connected on what's going in the league. You see Daryl Morey find value in late round draft picks and add a nice rotational player in Jordan Hamilton for nothing. Rick Smith has never come close to providing analogous talent for the Texans.
 
dalemurphy said:
Not. They are in a "win now" mode. If we had Peyton Manning at age 38, we would be doing the same thing. It makes no sense for a new staff, with a leash, to aggressively go after free agents when they have not had a single live practice with the current players. Look for aggressiveness in FA next year. This year, we will be grabbing familiar players and locker room guys in positions of weakness.... It's how all the good ones do it: Parcells, Belicheck, Schottenheimer, Jimmy Johnson, etc...
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Weren't we in a "win now" mode in 2012 and 2013? We got weaker and lost key contributors from our first playoff team. We didn't have a franchise QB to pay like they did. Denver is paying Manning close to $20 million and they still can find room!! We should have had more cap room since Schaub was relatively cheap in comparison.

The truth is We couldn't find a competent RT and our LB corps went to crap the past 2 years because we have an incompetent fool running our team.
 
TexansFight said:
I'm sick and tired of seeing Denver add to their talent base. They just added Aqib Talib, the best cover corner in the game and are supposedly at the top of the list for DeMarcus Ware.

I want the Texans to do whatever they have to get out of this cap situation where they are completely hamstrung. It just builds in excuses for Rick Smith's continual failures. Denver is paying for Peyton Manning, Wes Welker, Von Miller, and a bunch of other stars and they are ADDING talent. We can't get a competent RT to man the position.
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They've got $27M, we've got $13M..... making Schaub a June 1st cut will bring us to $23M, cutting DMann would bring us to $27M.... but we'll have to wait 'til June 1st before we can dip into the Schaub money.

We've got money now... $13M we can spend now. The Texans like to wait out the first couple of weeks regardless.
 
thunderkyss said:
They've got $27M, we've got $13M..... making Schaub a June 1st cut will bring us to $23M, cutting DMann would bring us to $27M.... but we'll have to wait 'til June 1st before we can dip into the Schaub money.

We've got money now... $13M we can spend now. The Texans like to wait out the first couple of weeks regardless.
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Different scenario. This coaching staff doesn't have the belief nor the need that the staff did in 2010 when it grabbed Joseph and Manning... They are making a change for the future at QB. By definition, that means the team isn't trying to win a championship this year. While a dramatic turn around is likely expected, overpaying to plug a final hole with an elite talent in the FA market doesn't make sense for the current (and new) organization. They will grab some quality players at positions of need and likely end up with a couple quality compensatory picks for next year.
 
thunderkyss said:
They've got $27M, we've got $13M..... making Schaub a June 1st cut will bring us to $23M, cutting DMann would bring us to $27M.... but we'll have to wait 'til June 1st before we can dip into the Schaub money.



We've got money now... $13M we can spend now. The Texans like to wait out the first couple of weeks regardless.
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You do realize we would have to cut our starting safety and what was our starting QB to reach $23 million. Denver has freaking Peyton Manning and a bunch of stars and they had $27 million in cap space. You can't think that we are in the same boat as they are. I truly wonder if we can fill out the roster with competent players. You can't be this blind. Please.
 
TheRealJoker said:
The Broncos have the cap space to sign Talib, TJ Ward and are now making a serious push for Demarcus Ware...

How are they in such a better position cap wise than us?! ��
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They have Bowlen/Elway running their team.

The Texans have BoB/Cal McNair/Rick Smith running their team.
 
TexansFight said:
You do realize we would have to cut our starting safety and what was our starting QB to reach $23 million. Denver has freaking Peyton Manning and a bunch of stars and they had $27 million in cap space. You can't think that we are in the same boat as they are. I truly wonder if we can fill out the roster with competent players. You can't be this blind. Please.
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It's important to look at their free agent situation:

Knowshon Moreno, RB - starter
Andre Caldwell, WR
Eric Decker, WR - starter
Winston Justice, OL
Zane Beadles, OL - starter
Dan Koppen, OL
Robert Ayers, DE - starter
Jeremy Mincey, DE
Shaun Phillips, LB - starter
Stewart Bradley, LB
Paris Lenon, LB
Wesley Woodyard, LB - starter
Champ Bailey, CB
Quentin Jammer, CB
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, CB - starter
Steve Vallos, C
Mike Adams, S
Michael Huff, S

Plus starting CB Chris Harris most likely won't play next year having gone down with an ACL in the playoffs. They just signed Talib to a stupid contract to replace him.

Just saying you can't only looked at the cap space as often a lot of that will be sucked up in staying even.

We are losing a NT who doesn't seem to fit the new D, a LG who was done anyway and a DE who I wish they would re-sign, but we'll see, and a FB who can be re-signed or replaced easily.
 
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