Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
This and Football IQ are the points which are capable of making me change from my trade down stance. These are the best arguments for taking TB 1-1.
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Teddy Bridgewater
- Thread starter revan
- Start date
This and Football IQ are the points which are capable of making me change from my trade down stance. These are the best arguments for taking TB 1-1.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Arm size can give you a clue to Frame size. Look near the joints, not at the muscles.
Texian
Hall of Fame
rpms and mph are two different animals. For me how well a QB spins the ball is not nearly as important as how fast he can throw it. Can he throw it closer to 60 mph or is he closer to 40 MPH. 40 MPH is a likely deal breaker. If a QB couldn't throw 45 MPH I would take him off my draft board. If he can't throw 50+ MPH he's not a 1st RDer IMHO. That goes for Teddy, Blake and Johnny.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I was hoping we were going to avoid this conversation as it has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but I see it's going to happen.
The size of a man's arms have nothing to do with his frame. I've seen huge guys with average arms and thin guys with huge arms. The muscle at the joint is the deltoid. The lateral deltoid is superior to the acromion process (which joins with the clavicle to form the AC joint, or shoulder joint). A rounded deltoid can make someone's frame appear larger than it really is.
A larger man will tend to have bigger arms but his arm size is not an indicator of the size of his frame.
All you have to do is dig a little deeper into the conversation and you will have your answer. And no one is having a his say fit.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Need to tighten up your windows a bit. Only a handful of guys have thrown under 50 in the past 6 drafts and most of them were 49. Nobody has posted anything over 59.
Link
Flacco and Keenum threw the same 55 so the test is kind of FWIW except for outliers.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
I dug plenty deep, but as bah007 correctly says, arms size has nothing to do with frame size. And with that fact in mind, the only other reason to complain (erroneously I will add) about the size of a QBs arm is for arm strength.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
In baseball there's a difference in arm speed and one's fastball . Armspeed means your curvball will act like it fell of the table . I suspect arm speed = rpms .
Sigh! No one, I repeat no one was using arm size as an argument about arm strength. It was simply pointed out that TEddy has extremely small arms. Generally speaking guys with that small of arms have small frames. Guys with small frames have trouble adding weight. It's questionable if those body types can hold up to the pounding they will take in the NFL.
And it was just a conversation with a little speculating. No one was saying any of the QB's defiantly have that type of body. No one knows or will until they are measured and tested.
Wrong it's about length. Oh wait!
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
Oh my gosh, it's all going over your head.
First, small arms does not mean a small frame as has been pointed out repeatedly.
So if small arms is not an accurate judge of a small frame, why else would you complain about the size of a QB's arm size (or more accurately his bicep size)? Never mind that several other photos have been posted that clearly show that Bridgewater's arm size is not small.
Nope it's all going over your head. You jumped into this conversation with assumptions instead of reading what was posted. Show me the repeatedly post where it has been stated that arm size does not mean small frame. Did you not read my comment where I said "generally really small arms come with a small frame"? Generally!!!!!!!!! And while you are at it show me these photos ( of not small arms) that have been posted in this thread since this conversation about small arm size started.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Wrist measurement is usually used to determine "frame size" but even that's an iffy thing. I've seen this used to try to determine the amount of muscle mass a person can pack on.
Remember, we're talking human bodies here and human bodies are not standard. The triceps, for example, is called the triceps because it has three places where it attaches to the bone. But you can find people who have triceps that have 4 and 5 attachments. So "frame size" is a kind of a hocus-pocus kind of term.
Strength is as much about neural efficiency as it is with muscle size. All things being equal, a bigger muscle is a stronger muscle but you can see lots of skinny guys that are surprisingly strong and it's because their muscles are operating efficiently. (This is why muscle confusion isn't the best approach for people wanting to develop strength. With muscle confusion, you try to keep your muscles from becoming efficient at the motion.)
And with something like throwing, it's not just about the strength of the arm or the shoulder, there are a lot of other mechanics involved that can increase or decrease the velocity of the ball.
Remember, we're talking human bodies here and human bodies are not standard. The triceps, for example, is called the triceps because it has three places where it attaches to the bone. But you can find people who have triceps that have 4 and 5 attachments. So "frame size" is a kind of a hocus-pocus kind of term.
Strength is as much about neural efficiency as it is with muscle size. All things being equal, a bigger muscle is a stronger muscle but you can see lots of skinny guys that are surprisingly strong and it's because their muscles are operating efficiently. (This is why muscle confusion isn't the best approach for people wanting to develop strength. With muscle confusion, you try to keep your muscles from becoming efficient at the motion.)
And with something like throwing, it's not just about the strength of the arm or the shoulder, there are a lot of other mechanics involved that can increase or decrease the velocity of the ball.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
And your "generaly" comment is an assumption, as bah007 disproved. Arm size has nothing to do with frame size...none. To borrow from baseball, Randy Johnson has the frame to be a huge human being, but if you just looked at his arms you would never believe that.
That's a small arm?
Texian
Hall of Fame
That's a small arm?
Why is the nose of the football pointing 90 degrees away from the direction he is throwing?
And your "generaly" comment is an assumption, as bah007 disproved. Arm size has nothing to do with frame size...none. To borrow from baseball, Randy Johnson has the frame to be a huge human being, but if you just looked at his arms you would never believe that.
That's a small arm?
Wow obviously you are trolling or you just aren't capable of following the conversation. No need to continue this. And yes that is a very small arm.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
Maybe cocking is wrist at the start of the throw?
I think the question should not be "will Teddy be one of the top 5 QBs in the NFL" (he won't; there's literally no chance he'll even be the best QB in his division) but "is it possible to win with Teddy at QB."
I think that if Houston gives him a roster like SF or Seadderal then he can win.
I understand the reply "well that's easier said than done! SF and Seadderal have incredible rosters!" and I agree. But without a world-beater QB (Brady; Manning; Brees; Rodgers) that's the only way to win in the NFL.
Which is harder to come by- a game-changing QB or an incredible roster?
I think that's a question worth discussing.
I think that if Houston gives him a roster like SF or Seadderal then he can win.
I understand the reply "well that's easier said than done! SF and Seadderal have incredible rosters!" and I agree. But without a world-beater QB (Brady; Manning; Brees; Rodgers) that's the only way to win in the NFL.
Which is harder to come by- a game-changing QB or an incredible roster?
I think that's a question worth discussing.
Trap_Star
SiteContributor
Blake knows why...
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Texian have you ever thrown a football ?
The guy with the greatest arm ever . Has been known to throw the ol pigskin a 1/4 mile .
Trap_Star
SiteContributor
Texian have you ever thrown a football ?
no, but he's watched others do it more than everyone here combined. #experience
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
No, that's not the caliber question that's worth discussing at all. That's the type of question you ask if you're considering going with Keenum or Yates. That is not the question you ask if you're considering taking a QB first overall in the draft. If Bridgewater needs everybody around him to be perfect to win then we should just stick with Matt Schaub at QB, and I don't like that idea one bit.
Texian have you ever thrown a football ?
Seriously what did joe Montana ever accomplish in football? Smh!!
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
He was a great tackler .
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Texian have you ever thrown a football ?
The guy with the greatest arm ever . Has been known to throw the ol pigskin a 1/4 mile .
Lol too funny.
I loved watching him play. Such a privilege. Well until 1993. After that I couldn't stand him.
Fair enough.
If that's Houston's standpoint then I hope they trade the pick.
Bridgewater will probably be good. He'll never be "carry the team to the Promised Land basically by himself" good.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Misdirection.
Seriously, though, are you really asking this question? He's not throwing darts. He's throwing a football with the normal motion everyone uses. And part of that motion involves bringing the ball back and cocking the arm. During that process, the point of the ball can go as far as almost pointing completely in the opposite direction of where the ball is ultimately going to go.
So, First post. I'm fully on the Bridgewater bandwagon and found this article on roto world pretty interesting.
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/45952/349/2014s-quarterback-conundrum
Apologies if it's been posted elsewhere.
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/45952/349/2014s-quarterback-conundrum
Apologies if it's been posted elsewhere.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Welcome to the board. And, yes, that's been posted but np. It's being debated, I think, in the Manziel thread.
Interesting that we're picking up new guys the past few days especially considering last season...
:wadepalm:
TexansFTW
Veteran
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=chris+trapasso
LOL
LOL, this thread is great today.
lol, where did you come from with all these wild "opinion facts"? Start that discussion elsewhere. Maybe one day the Texans can draft the next Peyton Manning, his kid's gotta be like 2 or 3 at least by now.
LOL, you are on joke fire today bro.
Welcome to the board. A few rules:
1. Be absolute in your stances with no wiggle room
2. Never back off your stance even when proved incorrect
3. From time to time be a jerk to some random person
Do this and you'll fit in great. Great article BTW.
drs23
Veteran
Accepted.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Why did Teddy have the ball at 90 degrees from his target? Because it looks like he's rolling out.
Why is the nose of the football not pointing at the direction of the target in the Joe Montana and Blake Bortles Photos? Because their throwing hand is coming from behind their head in an overhand throwing motion making it impossible to point the nose of the football where the QB is looking.
Why is Trevor Knight pointing the ball 180 degrees from the target area? I don't know, that is just wrong. He is a Freshman and a QB Coach will likely be making some corrections.
Have I ever thrown a football? Believe it or not I was a high school QB. The football aficionados thought they were either being smart or being funny but in either case they stubbed their toe.
Why is the nose of the football not pointing at the direction of the target in the Joe Montana and Blake Bortles Photos? Because their throwing hand is coming from behind their head in an overhand throwing motion making it impossible to point the nose of the football where the QB is looking.
Why is Trevor Knight pointing the ball 180 degrees from the target area? I don't know, that is just wrong. He is a Freshman and a QB Coach will likely be making some corrections.
Have I ever thrown a football? Believe it or not I was a high school QB. The football aficionados thought they were either being smart or being funny but in either case they stubbed their toe.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Why do you think that makes a difference? Do you think he's supposed to NOT bring his hand back and **** his arm when he's on a rollout?
Wait, are you trying to analyze the differences in these pictures and justify that Teddy pointing the ball 90 degrees away is wrong but the other guys isn't? I am confused here, what point are you trying to make?
Is that better? He is holding it behind his head too in this picture too.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Throwing motion is different when when running vs being stationary in the pocket.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Wait, are you trying to analyze the differences in these pictures and justify that Teddy pointing the ball 90 degrees away is wrong but the other guys isn't? I am confused here, what point are you trying to make?
Is that better? He is holding it behind his head too in this picture too.
I just asked a simple question. In this picture his arm is at a 45 degree angle like Montana and Bortles. The previous picture his arm is at 90 degree angle.
I was too, was just wondering what your point was. I mean, everyone who throws a football has the tip pointed out like that when they **** back, it's part of the natural motion. I thought you might be suggesting that Teddy was doing something wrong while Montana and Bortles weren't, which would have been silly because they are doing the exact same thing in those pictures.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
I'm not super-flexible, but I just tried to do a throwing motion while moving my arm back 90 degrees, and it's pretty damn uncomfortable. I think you have a bad viewing angle to claim his arm is winding up backwards at 90 degrees.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
For very short passes, you can toss it like a dart but if you're trying to get anything on it or get any sort of distance on it, you still have to use the same basic throwing motion.
Which is what Bridgewater appears to be doing there.
It's not an usual thing.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Blake Bortles Example
Take a look at the first highlight here of your boy, Bortles. He rolls out and when he throws, he cocks his arm back and throws. The point of the ball is going to be 90 degrees (or more) away from the intended target if you take a picture at the right time.
Take a look at the first highlight here of your boy, Bortles. He rolls out and when he throws, he cocks his arm back and throws. The point of the ball is going to be 90 degrees (or more) away from the intended target if you take a picture at the right time.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Run to your right or left and try to throw, the 90 degrees becomes more natural
drs23
Veteran
There's a big difference between 6'4" 211 & 6'3" 195
Like I said before. If he weighs in over 210 at the combine, I'll be surprised. If he weighs in at 215, I'm on board the Bridgewater train. If he weighs in at 220, I'm leading the parade down Kirby.
I don't understand this infatuation with weight. I really don't. Can someone please give me a reason to care? While having more weight(muscle) does help prevent injuries, its not like he has missed a bunch of time due to injury thus far in his career.
I mean come on people. People use to say our 230+ lbs QB was injury prone. Did he need more weight as well?
I mean come on people. People use to say our 230+ lbs QB was injury prone. Did he need more weight as well?