Yeah I know that they were bad. I was more taking issue with the "solely "
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State of the O-line
- Thread starter jradMIT
- Start date
Yeah I know that they were bad. I was more taking issue with the "solely "
Texansballer74
The Marine
Only one sack looks like it can be placed on Watson. But Tunsil got beat badly so this proves my point. All 6 were on the line.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I wonder, how often are we giving up sacks/QB pressures based on blown assignments vs just not having talented linemen.
I for one, think all those little nuisances could reduce our sacks by a third with the talent we have on hand. Roughly speaking, that's new players learning the system, Watson getting rid of it, and play call/design.
Scooter
Funky
Is shotgun protect a system? Left Tackle blocks Right End ... not a new concept. Quarterback and/or center calls the focal point, and you block/move as you've been coached to do. Pass blocking scheme isn't rocket science. It's coaching, athleticism and technique. Run blocking (if done right) can get considerably more complicated, but pass for most drops is execution and assignment.
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OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
One of the bigger issues......Martin is one of the ingredients that will prevent this OL from gelling. How or why OB and Devlin refuse to see this guy for what he is......a failed RD2 pick is just beyond me. Same could be said for Henderson. Problem, both Martin and Henderson have been in the NFL far too long to think they wil somehow have an epiphany one day and suddenly become highly competent at their positions.
Worse yet, OB and Devlin are just waiting for the day their OL gels. Don't hold your breaths b/c you'll both black-out due to self-suffocation before admitting you messed the bed.
OB, you and Devlin want to fix this mess.....then do the following:
LT- Tunsil
LG- Howard
OC- Fulton
RG- Scharping
RT- Johnson
This represents a young OL that would have the potential to grow and gel as a unit. All the pieces have solid upsides with their careers firmly ahead of them.
Biggest problem......I just don't see OB and Devlin admitting that they blundered badly in extending Martin. This could play a big part in their downfall and leave a new regime with a big mess to clean up. If they drop the ball this season, it'll be 2022 before this team could begin a rebound into relevancy.
Name the last LT drafted that started at LT year 1 & still playing at LT. Tyron Smith maybe?
It's getting harder & harder to draft that guy. Teams have to change & have to develop that guy.
The Texans plan appeared to be to get Kalil healthy and be a stopgap. Draft a tackle and go from there.
They drafted Howard who we thought was supposed to be that guy. They thought enough of him to find a starting spot for him. Pretty much along the same track Laremy Tunsil followed.
But they realized Kalil can't play. The other options were Davenport & Roderick Johnson. I'd have been fine with that, but I would know that isn't a good situation.
They decided to get a LT. & I like that idea better.
Tunsil, Howard, Martin, Fulton, Sharping
That could be something special one day.
I'll wait & see. Got nothing better to do.
Just curious, are you an OL expert?
It's getting harder to draft an instant starter on the OL because the college game has changed so much... the top rated tackles of today really struggled their first couple of years
For the most part in pass pro the tackles are going to be responsible the widest rusher among the front 7. Thing is , that guy can change with stunts , they have to learn who to "pass off" and who to maintain a block on. It can get pretty complicated , especially in blitz situations. That's why having some continuity along the OL makes so much difference.
I don't think any of us expected an OL who hasn't played together to look very good at all.
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
180 yards rushing Brian! Agree with Corrosion, for never playing together they looked bad at times but also got some work done. If they gel and become middle of the pack before DW gets hurt, we can all start bitchin about the D as the offense will be clicking
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
180 yards rushing Brian! Agree with Corrosion, for never playing together they looked bad at times but also got some work done. If they gel and become middle of the pack before DW gets hurt, we can all start bitchin about the D as the offense will be clicking
That really doesn't affect pass blocking , its the same concepts and techniques with the tackles generally getting the widest rusher , even in an air raid offense.
Now what does change dramatically is run blocking when you have such wide splits where you may not see the interior pulling actions.
I really think this is an excuse for front office guys and coaches to fail.
Malloy
Hall of Fame
Honestly, us not having Miller in rhe backfield probably caused this. RB play was wastly improved and i have a hard time seeing Miller on this team moving forward (no pun intended)
Number19
Hall of Fame
Saturday morning Chronicle reporting the same. Chronicle anticipates him starting Sunday.
I really think it's the learning curve
The "learning curve" is mostly pre snap , identifying who you are suppose to be blocking and potential switching / passing off of defenders in the case of stunts. Once the ball is snapped its all about technique and recognizing those stunts.
Run blocking is a LOT more complicated …. believe it or not.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Chronicle this morning also reporting Kelemete is "questionable" on the injury list with a wrist problem.
And, reporting that Roderick Johnson is pushing Henderson for playing time at RT, describing Henderson as having "broke down in pass protection against the Saints".
We get Howard and Johnson into the rotation for a game.or two, then we break Scharping into the lineup at RG.
That just leaves Fulton pushing Martin to the bench.
All of this by mid-season? Hoping.sooner.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
The panic around here about the sacks & pressures is just that, panic...mostly irrational. Saw the same thing with people around here when the schedule came out. Well just 1 week in & its already not looking nearly as tough.
I fully expected it to take at least 3 games for this line to come together & be what its ultimately going to be. I think if we saw guys getting overpowered and routinely blown by.... like what was happening all last year, i'd be more concerned. That wasn't the case though. Once they settled in & combated the superdome noise which is 1 of the toughest places to play, they looked aight for a group that hadn't taken 1 snap together. Fully expect them to get better as the season goes on & they get more snaps together.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I'll have to take your word for it. That's contrary to a lot of what is said. I always assumed run blocking was about getting lower, momentum, and leverage on the defenders correct shoulder.
What do I know though? I played wr and db.
Can you elaborate?
Technically his first order of business was to get rid of Clowney. Didn't happen, but he tried.
His second order of business was to send Cleveland a 3rd round pick for a RB they were reportedly going to cut.
Then he went about protecting Watson.
Sadly Martin ain't going to the bench.
There isn't a team in the league that doesn't incorporate both. Even Kubiak. He leaned heavily towards ZBS, but incorporated power runs from time to time.
The Colts with Edgerrin James was primarily a power blocking team. But in the 4th qtr they'd stretch the line & wear defenses out.
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BigBull
Rookie
With the contract extension Martin just signed he will be the starter for a long time.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Lol really? So then what was he doing?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
exactly. it depends largely on what you're trying to accomplish as an offense. Trying to sit on a lead and wear the defense out, you're probably power blocking more and leaning on the defense more. trying to take advantage of a fast flowing defensive front 7? you're probably zone blocking more.
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No, that doesn't mean that at all.
He wasn't the point man, but he still had a big hand in both. But I think that's a good thing. Like I said before the draft, we need to draft 8 LTs to make sure BO'b starts a LT at LT.
Didn't go like I thought, but the idea is still the same.
I was just pointing out that he was trying to fix the OL before the Tunsil trade. Unless you think Gaine was making the final calls on draft picks. (Which I do)
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Most likely so. And I know nothing is like live bullets, but they’ve had a whole summer of mini-camps, OTAs, and training camp to be coached up and play together. And because live in-game reps are so desperately needed, barely giving them any in PS games is probably not the smartest thing to do.
Number19
Hall of Fame
This is certainly how it seems. But things are "different" this year and management decisions are being made that would have been less likely in the past.
We're paying Martin with a fat new contract. But I'm uncertain this means diddly squat under our new more aggressive management style.
I don't. McClain said otherwise
Drafting Howard and Scharping showed me that protecting Watson was the 1st order of business. They found out pretty quickly Howard wasn't a NFL LT and traded for Tunsil. The Clowney/Duke trades were made after the draft so they weren't the 1st order of business.
What I wonder is if Gaine made the call not to trade up for Dillard and if so, would he have made the Tunsil trade given his obvious conservative nature?
Care to provide a link for this.
I'm not disagreeing with you I just haven't seen a report out there like this and I'm usually pretty well informed.
Oh. Sarcasm. I get it now. Yes, his first order of business this year was protecting Watson. I'll give you that.
Since Rick drafted Watson though, his first order of business was to prove he knew better than Rick & tried to make Tom Savage a starter. (I drank the Koolaid).
Which I think shows us the biggest problem with BO'b so far. Had he fell in line with Rick & coached the players he was given, we wouldn't have lost 4 years of progress.
But that's yesterday. I'm looking forward. Let's go.
He coached who he was given. I think they wanted Watson to sit his rookie yr to avoid the beating he took behind the putrid OL. (Smartly) Savage sucked so bad that he put Watson in and predictably Watson got hurt.
Like you said that was yesterday lets move forward.
You are thinking about it in simple terms , man on man ….1940's football.
Think about the complexities of pulling … I need a freaking chalk board.
"Something that must be kept in mind: Even though Gaine had final say over personnel decisions, he didn’t sign or draft players coach Bill O’Brien didn’t want. The next general manager won’t, either. So don’t expect any changes in the way the Texans do business when acquiring and releasing players, no matter who is hired."
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sp...ns-will-hire-a-GM-that-gets-Bill-13962769.php
So OBrien wanted Rankin, kalil, Seantrel, tytus, and Scharping
He also said on 610 that Gaines firing didn't really change that much because Gaine was just getting him the players he wanted anyway.
Nvm
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Chalk it up. Get dirty. I never had any coaching on the matter. I could run a route, high point a ball, and back pedal. I never could block worth a damn.
So Gaine was getting him the players he wanted, Did he say this about RS?
Of the players you listed they took fliers on Kalil/Henderson and the jury is still out on Howard/Scharping. They used a 3rd on Rankin but turned Rankin into Hyde by quickly admitting their mistake in Rankin.
Do you have an issue with taking fliers on guys at positions of need? Or are you upset that 1. a 3rd rd pick busted (Rankin) it happens. 2. Do you not like the Rankin for Hyde trade?
I like the decisiveness in trading Rankin and the new aggressive nature of the org in personnel decisions. Perform or you're out. With that said the Martin deal is a real head scratcher for me.
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O'Brien himself said Rick never got him players the coaches didn't want. On mad dog radio with meltser. I've posted it before.
Yes I have a problem with fliers on kalil and Seantrel. They are washed and terrible and take the roster spots and snaps someone better should be taking.
Howard was a reach and they somehow completely misscouted him as an LT.
Rankin was also mis scouted as an LT. Somehow they already determined he's a bust? No I don't like trading last years third round pick for a journeyman RB..
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
He didn't look like a journeyman Monday. I've seen nothing out of Rankin. Call it bad Scouting or bad coaching but Rankin wasnt good here.
Yes he looked good. But he averaged 3.4 yards per carry last year. Let's see if he can keep it up.
Agreed Rankin was bad but I wouldn't be surprised if Andy Reid develops him into a rotational G/C
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Yup. Reid may infact make the guy a pro bowler. I wouldn't bet on it though.
I like the "Dr Johnson and Mr Hyde" combo so far.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I don't have a problem with the players. But the cost is ridiculous. Trading a 3rd round pick from last year who will be under cheap team control for several years for a journeyman RB who will be a free agent next year.
I hope they have a plan for all these impending free agents and lack of draft picks combined with dwindling cap room
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
The other consideration was depth. They had so many average players they were going to cut someone. I'm not so sure Rankin was safe to make this team.
Well …. one guy was in the building 5 days.
There's a lot to be said for continuity at that position group.
The reads are one thing , switching the guy each is blocking on stunts is another monster altogether in real time.
Its one thing to know what to do and another to actually do it.
And then …. there's OB's playbook. That's just a comedy of errors.
I wouldn't have …. assuming I could have had Trent Williams for a #1 or maybe a 1&3.. instead of two 1's and a 2.