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State of the O-line
- Thread starter jradMIT
- Start date
SMH
I'd wager that those aren't the starting five.
Hopefully not, or Watson won't make it through the season.
My guess is they aren't including Khalil and Seantrel because they haven't been healthy in years. Khalil isn't even healthy now
I'm surprised they weren't last. Sadly, that's improvement.
That small, seemingly innocuously little phrase, screams .... "that's our MO .... we may not live up to your expectations .... but we're the only game in town" !
HOUSTON -- TheHouston Texanswere worst in the league in giving up sacks in 2018, and although the offensive line does need to improve, coach Bill O'Brien has been quick to point out the problem goes beyond that.
Deshaun Watson, offensive line share blame for Texans' league-high 62 sacks
While offensive linemen are judged by the number of sacks allowed, NFLNext GenStats has a newer metric that helps measure how each individual lineman performed, called pass-block win rates.
The metric measures what percentage of the time a player has held a block for 2.5 seconds after the snap, which is the average time it takes a quarterback to get rid of the ball. Last season, centerNick Martinhad the highest score relative to his position of the Texans linemen to play a significant number of snaps. Martin held his block for 2.5 seconds or longer 83 percent of the time. The league average for centers is 79 percent. Tackle Julien Davenport (82 percent) and guardSenio Kelemete(83 percent) finished higher than average for their positions. RookieMartinas Rankin, who filled in for an injuredSeantrel Hendersonin 2018 and probably will primarily play guard going forward, had a pass-block win rate of 78 percent.
Outside of backup center/guardGreg Mancz, the offensive linemen were around the average for their position. As a team during the regular season, the Texans ranked 16th in pass-block win rate.
This doesn't mean there is no room for improvement for the offensive line -- it was certainly still an area of weakness -- but it shows there might be another reason that quarterbackDeshaun Watsonwas sacked 62 times in 2018. Watson's average time to throw last season was 3.01 seconds, which ranked third worst among passer rating qualified passers. This shows that at least part of the time, the reason Watson is under pressure is because he's holding on to the ball for too long.
Of course, one of the reasons Watson has had so much success -- throwing 45 touchdown passes in 23 career games -- is because by holding on to the ball and extending plays, he can also make some incredible things happen, especially after a play has broken down.
"Sometimes, I could get rid of the ball. I guess it depends on the situation," Watson said. "But I tell everyone, and OB [O'Brien] tells everyone, too: As long as I'm in the game and I have the ball in my hands, the play is never over until it's over.
"I mean, there are times where you can say I held it on and you can say the ball could have got out quicker [or] you could say if I would have got out of that sack and made a play, then he didn't hold the ball too long. So I guess it depends on what the results are."
***
https://www.espn.com/blog/houston-t...ed-might-not-be-all-the-offensive-lines-fault
***
Deshaun Watson, offensive line share blame for Texans' league-high 62 sacks
While offensive linemen are judged by the number of sacks allowed, NFLNext GenStats has a newer metric that helps measure how each individual lineman performed, called pass-block win rates.
The metric measures what percentage of the time a player has held a block for 2.5 seconds after the snap, which is the average time it takes a quarterback to get rid of the ball. Last season, centerNick Martinhad the highest score relative to his position of the Texans linemen to play a significant number of snaps. Martin held his block for 2.5 seconds or longer 83 percent of the time. The league average for centers is 79 percent. Tackle Julien Davenport (82 percent) and guardSenio Kelemete(83 percent) finished higher than average for their positions. RookieMartinas Rankin, who filled in for an injuredSeantrel Hendersonin 2018 and probably will primarily play guard going forward, had a pass-block win rate of 78 percent.
Outside of backup center/guardGreg Mancz, the offensive linemen were around the average for their position. As a team during the regular season, the Texans ranked 16th in pass-block win rate.
This doesn't mean there is no room for improvement for the offensive line -- it was certainly still an area of weakness -- but it shows there might be another reason that quarterbackDeshaun Watsonwas sacked 62 times in 2018. Watson's average time to throw last season was 3.01 seconds, which ranked third worst among passer rating qualified passers. This shows that at least part of the time, the reason Watson is under pressure is because he's holding on to the ball for too long.
Of course, one of the reasons Watson has had so much success -- throwing 45 touchdown passes in 23 career games -- is because by holding on to the ball and extending plays, he can also make some incredible things happen, especially after a play has broken down.
"Sometimes, I could get rid of the ball. I guess it depends on the situation," Watson said. "But I tell everyone, and OB [O'Brien] tells everyone, too: As long as I'm in the game and I have the ball in my hands, the play is never over until it's over.
"I mean, there are times where you can say I held it on and you can say the ball could have got out quicker [or] you could say if I would have got out of that sack and made a play, then he didn't hold the ball too long. So I guess it depends on what the results are."
***
https://www.espn.com/blog/houston-t...ed-might-not-be-all-the-offensive-lines-fault
***
Very skewed numbers.
Remember the time Watson held onto the for 10-15 seconds at the end of the Titans game.
How many times did Davenport receive help from a TE? Remember all of the bitching going on around here due to lack of the use of the TE? Helping Davenport on a regular basis caused this effect.
You love to single out Davenport, but he was not the biggest problem
He cost them their starting RT three plays into the season. Apparently Gaine agrees with me after drafting OT's in rds 1-2. Also they had to shorten the playbook due to Davenport/Lamm's issues with pressure. I will say Davenport was a better run blocker than Lamm was, not that this says much.
What was the biggest issue in your mind? My biggest issue was the braintrust thinking they could sign a bunch of backups on the cheap and think they would make a good OL. The truth is they were backups for a reason and can fill in for a game or 2 but weren't/aren't full time starters.
Starting RT was pushed back over half the pocket... it wasn't all on Davenport. Henderson wasn't a rookie either. BT went the cheap route and it backfired
What side of the OL was Henderson on when Davenports man bull rushed him, knocking him flat on his a$$ and into Henderson's ankle? That kind of crap happened far too many times last yr and is the reason that's the reason Gaine went out and drafted 2 OT's.
You didn't answer, what do you think was the weakest area of the OL? Obviously by the way he conducted the draft Gaine thought OT was the weakest position.
Sounds like O'Brien is confusing our young QB.
If you get sacked, you held onto it too long. But, if you make a play holding on the ball too long, then you didn't hold onto the ball too long.
They were both in the middle of the so called pocket. Henderson was pushed just as far, if not more than Davenport. I did answer, the weakest link was the braintrust thinking they could protect a basically rookie QB on the cheap
Only if you're looking through OB hate-filled goggles. OB has plenty of faults, but you don't have to read your BS between the lines of every comment made
They were both closer to the middle than 'their' side.
Biggest weakness was depth/health
Yes it does. After he watches the film he sees it
SBT doesn't wish it, but he certainly blindly predicts it loudly
Yep, even you will admit Watson holding onto the ball to long isn't all on BOB.
Not arguing the point but Lamm was never meant to be the starter... he was an injury replacement. And that's only one area the brain trust failed
I don't think it is. But a system should be pretty clear on when he is and isnt.
It's pretty clear to me.
2.5 vs 3.1
Watson? Does he? He also said that sometimes he holds it too long... or can he just not see the field/read defenses?
I think he does hold it too long but it's not clear why. I know OBrien likes slow developing iso routes and often keeps a te back to block, so it can take awhile for someone to get open in this system. Also Watson can obviously get himself out of trouble, so at times it is warranted (like Aaron Rodgers)
What makes you think he can't read defenses? Hard to believe that of someone with those numbers
He kept getting blown up by blitzers, particularly by corner blitzers
Pre-snap reads need work as do play-calling and route running. It was systemic failure last year
sandman
Brexit Advisor
So Watson's struggles against corner blitzes is solely because of poor play calling and lack of feedback from the coaches on the sideline?
Is anything not exclusively OB's fault in your mind?
Maybe it was Watson's at fault, but poor play calling, QB confusion, and mediocre (at best) offense preceded him
sandman
Brexit Advisor
I'm not saying they didn't. But it is a pretty safe bet that most everyone on this message board screamed "throw the damn ball away!" at some point this past season. Watson has personal improvement needed in this area, regardless of the improvements needed in the system and/or coaching. But we live in a binary world these days.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Yeah he needs to just toss it over the sideline more often and live to fight another day.
Having another receiver out there to throw to would have helped a bunch.
How often did we scream at Fitzmagic to 'THROW THE DAMN BALL!'?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Thing is as a rookie he had one of the faster times getting rid of the ball. Full offseason as the focus of OB's attention he goes to one of the slower QBs.
Exactly, I wonder if it's more of a system thing.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Bwhahaha how does that even equate to Gaine, " The GM who is looking for a job" agreeing with you.
That was a fluke injury. So don't put that on that youngster like that. I understand you're trying to drive home your point. But that's not cool steel.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Texansballer74
The Marine
Texansballer74
The Marine
Pharaohcious
Waterboy
it sounds like he coaches using madden
Texansballer74
The Marine
I've seen plenty of times where Watson was trying to force feed Hopkins. He had other players open on the short routes. Dink and donk will help him out tremendously.
Gaine did agree with me, look at his draft. The deniall around these parts is unbelievable.
The youngster got his ass whooped and I don't want to see anybody else get hurt because of his sick ass play. That play was a harbinger of how his season was to go. Luckily Watson didn't get killed. Hardly a fluke. Those are facts.
Feel free to disagree, but things aren't going to get better until Davenport is replaced, the yk pw this which is why they draft 2 OT's high and signed a vet in fa. Once again they went the cheap route and hopefully Watson doesn't have to pay the price for the Texans cheapness again this year.
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