xtruroyaltyx said:
No one is ever going to admit Carr is off limits.....
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Sage is our man
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No one is ever going to admit Carr is off limits.....
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thunderkyss said:
But he is isn't he...Carr will probably go down as the most controversial player in Texans history...
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
After two seasnos, and the number of twenty page posts this off season, what more can be said ? Let it play out. I can give grace in the off season. Baseball, people bored to death something to argue about...something to read. But this is boarding on the psychotic, Good greif. What more can be said ? If DC and the teams decision to stick with DC makes you this angry,...find another outlet. Life's too short my freind . How many twenty page threads do we need ? There's been nothing new in two months. What's the point. I'm tired of it. Time to move on. No Mass !!!QQ!!!
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threetoedpete said:
I feel ya....It has been beaten to death...But the argument will go on even after D.Carr succeeds or fails.....Some people just don't like Carr, and some are just blind Carr homers....but not everybody fits into those two categories...
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
well if we've lost him to the sack deamons in his head, we've lost him to the sack deamons in his head. I do not deny that. But NOONE is gonna tell me that DC wasn't an a1 prospect coming out of Fresno St. NOONE. DC didn't fail this orginazation. The Texans failed him. And, further, if it plays out that he dose fail here, my bold prediction is that DC will win a SB one day. We'll see. So If we gotta have more of these twenty pagers...How about who is the next Texans QB ? Which QB is Better Golden Dommer or Schaub ala Favre Atlanta/Green bay. Just had enough of the DC bashing. What's the point ? I'm just worried some of the DC bashers might be packin' ? J/K.
threetoedpete said:well if we've lost him to the sack deamons in his head, we've lost him to the sack deamons in his head. I do not deny that. But NOONE is gonna tell me that DC wasn't an a1 prospect coming out of Fresno St. NOONE. DC didn't fail this orginazation. The Texans failed him. And, further, if it plays out that he dose fail here, my bold prediction is that DC will win a SB one day. We'll see. So If we gotta have more of these twenty pagers...How about who is the next Texans QB ? Which QB is Better Golden Dommer or Schaub ala Favre Atlanta/Green bay. Just had enough of the DC bashing. What's the point ? I'm just worried some of the DC bashers might be packin' ? J/K.
if people with your attitude would stay out of these Carr threads...... they'd be shorter, and I bet less frequent.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
Well this people passed on four of them. What can I say. You see a five hundered pound gorilla in the room, no one else seems to get it, you point it out. It's bordering on the phsycotic is all I know. If DC fails, it's gonna kill me. I do not love DC. But I did love his potential. What a waist. It's gonna break my heart.
It won't be a victory if the DC bashers are dancing gleefully the season. Means a three year plan is now a five year plan. What Texans fan, a true fan, could find joy in that ? I don't mind the arguement. Just seems like a sucky attitude to me. What can I say, get a bunch of acheivers believers, the glass is always half full.
But you have a point. I promise to no longer feed this monster. Book it.
It won't be a victory if the DC bashers are dancing gleefully the season. Means a three year plan is now a five year plan. What Texans fan, a true fan, could find joy in that ? I don't mind the arguement. Just seems like a sucky attitude to me. What can I say, get a bunch of acheivers believers, the glass is always half full.
But you have a point. I promise to no longer feed this monster. Book it.
S
SESupergenius
Guest
You and Wonger just have some sort of fixation on watching Carr plumet into the turf so that you can say "I told you so" nany nany nany. It's getty old and boring. All that is left is for you to watch the games.xtruroyaltyx said:
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SESupergenius said:
....get....outta...town...
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But just to clear it up...I would love it if Carr came out and was a beast so for you to imply that I have some fixation with seeing him fail is foolish...I just think that he is a mediocre sometimes terrible QB...It would be awesome if David was a beast and have a good back-up in Sage...that would make us more complete...If I am wrong about David I'll admit it.....And be happy...
All you have to do is make a suggestion on what Carr might do better after 4 losing seasons and:
You are a Carr hater/basher
You are a traitor to your team
You are hoping for the worst in Carr
You should find another team to root for
You are a glass half empty fan
You are not giving Carr a chance
You dont trust the coaching
Give me a break.
You are a Carr hater/basher
You are a traitor to your team
You are hoping for the worst in Carr
You should find another team to root for
You are a glass half empty fan
You are not giving Carr a chance
You dont trust the coaching
Give me a break.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Jwwillis said:
I'd say any discussion about what Carr can do better/needs to improve on or reviewing his actual play in a game is exactly the kind of discussion the MB is meant for.
Where I think folks fall off the reservation is in making projections of future performance either pro-bowl status or being replaced during the 1st game, etc. which aren't substantiated by current play or realistic considering the coaching staff's opinion and changes they are instituting.
S
SESupergenius
Guest
no that would be great...if it was only said maybe a couple of times. But it repeated over and over, like trollsJwwillis said:
infantrycak said:
I agree....... & that's you've got all them footballs in the top right corner of your posts.....
What I really find surprising...... is that some of our fans, not a lot..... really want to start Sage over Carr, based on their performance in two preseason games......
I can understand the guys who just want to see Sage with the 1st team.......baby steps...... but for the guys who are ready to relegate(sp) Carr to the bench is mindboggling.......
bigtex77
Waterboy
thunderkyss said:
I'm not saying that it would be wrong, simply stating that David would most likely have to elevate his level of play. It would be a combination of new talent/scheme and Carr playing at a higher level, I just don't think that some would give David any credit at all for the overall improvement. I have a wait and see attitude with David, if he performs well this season, I'm fine, but if he doesn't, we need to go in another direction. I am not one who thinks we should stick with David regardless of how bad things get, if the ship is lost at sea, find another captain.
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bigtex77 said:
I don't think you are giving people enough credit...Theere aren't too many Morons on the board...People can see if he plays well and we win, just like we can see if he plays poorly and we win...Everbody's not out to get David...Some of us who are dissapointed in his play are actually dissapointed in his PLAY....nothing more nothing less...David needs to play better and that is the only fact...
Napa Auto Parts
Veteran
i hate some of the threads like this you get punished by the david carr homers wiyth negative for wishing he was a decent QB if im to be known for a carr basher for hoping carr can play up to carson palmer standards so be it i guess i just expect to much from the field general that doesnt seem to improve with 4 full seasons under his belt.
bigtex77
Waterboy
xtruroyaltyx said:
Understood, I know that most will give credit where credit is due, I just believe that there are some people on this board who would (as hard as it is to believe) love to see the Texans fail just so they can blame Carr because of their personal vendetta against him. I know plenty will disagree, it's just my opinion. Let me also say that just because you (not xtruroyaltyx, but all posters in general) are highly critical of Carr doesn't mean that I believe the first part of this post applies to you. There is a difference between being critical and having a vendetta against someone.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Some of y'all have just gone plumb crazy.
S
SESupergenius
Guest
There is nothing wrong with criticizing David Carr, just as there is nothing wrong with criticizing Mario Williams' less than spectacular play. But the criticizm needs to have some validity and if you are going to do that, then have a good angle on what you are talking about and compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Some of you are comparing Apples to $.20 stamps. I read most of the knee jerk reactions from the beginning of the week and was amazed at some of the people's comments. I didn't read any criticism of Carr's most obvious screw up against the Rams, he completely held the ball when Moulds did a curl route and Carr looked at him and didn't even throw it. That was indecisive, something he needs to work on. Instead we get the trivial SAGE IS OUR MAN thread that doesn't accurately point out Carr's flaws and what circumstances surrounded some of the offensive woes when he was under center, but just that Sage Rosenfels had an ok game against 2nd or 3rd stringers. That is just weak.
bigtex77 said:
That's really all any of us are asking from David..... to play at a higher level than he has since joined the league....... of course we've got a few extremes........ some that think David has done nothing right..... and those that think he hasn't done anything wrong.
Now I don't believe David will remain the QB regardless of his performance. I do believe Kubiak expects him to struggle over the next 10 weeks or so. He may not even have put a number on it...... but he's got a threshold.. but until he crosses that threshold, David is the starting QB. Regardless if Sage plays better or not. If David never gets it....... which we all should realize is a possibility.... if David never gets it, then we have Sage..... & I believe Kubiak believes Sage & the Texans can be very successful.
Hardcore Texan
Magnet Man
infantrycak said:
Hard to argue with that.......good post.
MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS
Waterboy
500 Post later we are still on the Carr topic talk about beating a dead horse
......What this truely comes down to is that 99.9% of the Carr haters have already given up on Kubiak and staff, already written David off before the season has started.......Failed to listen or read what Kubiak has said about David
........So instead we should all bowdown
to Sage who none of you have ever even heard of before he stepped off the plane from Maimi......due to what he has done in 2 pre-season games that mean nothing and I mean nothing.....Maybe Gary and Mike Sherman and Texans staff should read the 500 plus replies to this ongoing thread that wonger started that us fans have spoken and want Sage
as our QB, get rid of Cody, Quinton, and most importantly David......Truely unreal, if we already have doubts about our Qb before the first ball is even snapped, under the new staff, something is wrong, we are truely not fans......Bob Mcnair should of never even bothered bringing football back to Houston......For the last time give the Coaches and the 53 players that make this team on Sept. 2nd a fair chance before we write them off.....P.S. stop replying to this thread WONGER is on the phone right now with Guiness Book Of World Records, trying to cash in on this thread.......
......What this truely comes down to is that 99.9% of the Carr haters have already given up on Kubiak and staff, already written David off before the season has started.......Failed to listen or read what Kubiak has said about David ........So instead we should all bowdown to Sage who none of you have ever even heard of before he stepped off the plane from Maimi......due to what he has done in 2 pre-season games that mean nothing and I mean nothing.....Maybe Gary and Mike Sherman and Texans staff should read the 500 plus replies to this ongoing thread that wonger started that us fans have spoken and want Sage as our QB, get rid of Cody, Quinton, and most importantly David......Truely unreal, if we already have doubts about our Qb before the first ball is even snapped, under the new staff, something is wrong, we are truely not fans......Bob Mcnair should of never even bothered bringing football back to Houston......For the last time give the Coaches and the 53 players that make this team on Sept. 2nd a fair chance before we write them off.....P.S. stop replying to this thread WONGER is on the phone right now with Guiness Book Of World Records, trying to cash in on this thread.......
SESupergenius said:
Good point...... and good call..... I re-watched the game last night, and it happened more or less like you said. Actually there were a lot of things he did wrong here, and this is most likely one of the plays that Kubiak says David has got to make.
it was a first & ten, or a second & ten... twin recievers split left....... They looked to be in man coverage...... Moulds' man wa giving him 5 yards. Moulds ran a lazy 5 yard out, and his defender just set up shop 5 yards behind him.
David was watching him the whole time.. he should have thrown the ball just before Eric turned around, but he didn't.
Protection was pretty good. After Moulds turned around, you could see Carr looking at him trying to decide whether or not to throw the ball. As a spectator, watching on the Tele, it looked like David said.... "I'm going to throw it..... I'm not going t... I'm going to .... I'm"
He didn't throw it.... I think it was Flanagan, who was loosing a battle with a DT pushing his way towards Carr...... straight up the middle. Spencer/Wand had a guy pretty much stonewalled two steps up, and to the left of David. I think David should have slid to his right(well first, I think he should have looked around to see if anyone else was open), then run up the gaping hole where the OLine used to be..... instead, he tries to run around Wand/Spencer, and the guy being kept away from him. It was too easy for that guy to lay off Wand/Spencer, turn his hips, and bam...... he's got his hands on David...... David flicks the ball to withing three yards of where Moulds happens to be at this point...
He never looked off Moulds......
He was indecisive.....
He ran into a pressure situation........
Three areas he's got to work on..
We knew this..... shouldn't be a big deal, let's see how it goes....
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thunderkyss said:
IMO, this post^^^^ just about sums it up...
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And I noticed another play where Carr messed up....On third down when he threw the Ball into the ground in front of A.J....Carr did a bad job of feeling the blitz and making a quick throw...If Carr would have recognized blitz or even been expecting it he could have made a quick throw to AJ who was open...but instead he shot out of the pocket and made a bad throw on the run....I think it's safe to say that we all realize Carr needs to play better, but like tkyss said, don't expect a change so soon...(and on a side note, Kubiak said himself that Sage was blitzed just as much as Carr...take it FWIW)
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
xtruroyaltyx said:
True, and it was a mistake OTOH it is funny IMO that some Sage mistakes are being overlooked as well (not necessarily by you, just generally). Sage tossed a ball in the dirt as well and also almost threw a pick in exactly the same fashion Carr did as well.
Yes Kubiak did say that but what he didn't say is Sage was pressured just as much as Carr. The blitzes in the 2nd half were picked up better by the OL, Morency and the TE's. Doesn't mean Carr did a good job handling the pressure just that more got to him.
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infantrycak said:
In all honesty I thought about that last night and I was going to rewatch the game just to look at all Sage's mistakes, because I realized I wasn't really being fair...If I am going to criticize Carr I am going to have to start criticizing Sage....
xtruroyaltyx said:
Sage having only 2 starts in his 5 year carreer, I beleive, is given more leeway than David Carr and his 4 years starting......
I can kinda see thier point.....
IMHO, with the bad coaching David's had, and the bad QBs Sage has been behind, they should both be looked at as 2nd year players........... ready to start, with a few rough edges. so personally, I expect them both to struggle some. Only Carr is still a BlueChipper, and should be a little more advanced than Sage.
xtruroyaltyx said:
Now there is something I would like to see...
IMO I do like that everyone here brings out what is Carr doing wrong. Makes me see that he needs to improve. But at the same time, it is making Sage look like Joe Montana out there.
I have'nt been able to watch the games, so I can't really critique any of the quaterbacks that we have, so I have to trust some of the people here. I especially like hearing the posts from Infantrycak, TKyss, and several others that try not to bring in their bias when judging Carr.
In all honesty, I would also like to hear what Sage does wrong, because as of right now, he is looking like a Probowler compared to the criticism of Carr.
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infantrycak said:
Tis true...and that brings me to another point...I don't know exactly how the Texans pass pro scheme is blocked..although if I look at it closely I could probably figure it out...But anywho, when I played in college our QB was primarily in charge of calling out the blocking schemes on pass plays...
1) The QB has better vision of whats happening as far as defensive players showing blitz
2) he could make a call to slide the line one way or another depending on where he felt like pressure would be heaviest
3) The QB even had a call that told the rb whether he would have to stay in and block, chip a DE and go out for a pass, or just go straight into a route
I don't know if the QB has this much responsibility in Kubiaks offense, but it's the NFL and i dont see why not...My point is that when someone comes free it isn't always a "missed assingment"...When players come free the QB needs to make a "hot read" or he should have made a call so that the RB or OL can recognize ther might be an extra man coming...
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Oh I got a headache so I'll cut off my head . Nobody has given up on Kubiak ... I think he's a great coach . He took a scrub backup from the Dolphins and made him into a pretty good QB .MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS said:500 Post later we are still on the Carr topic talk about beating a dead horse
Would everyone please stop calling people Carr haters . I find the posters who are Carr critics to be some pretty sharp football people . They see trends and are objective ( it could be any QB not just Carr ) about the play at QB .
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
xtruroyaltyx said:
Haven't heard about the new regime. We did hear previously that Palmer and Pendry fought each other over the pass blocking schemes and they were being called by the OC. Later there was a report that other teams regarded Pendry's schemes as a joke.
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infantrycak said:
And that is what makes it so hard for us as fans to truly evalutate Carr's play...We don't know their scheme....All we can see are obvious mistakes..(maybe not so obvious to casual fans)...And Obviously the old coaches were bafoons if they called the pass protection and didn't give control of the offense to there QB who was in his fourth year starting...
santo said:
I hear what you are saying.... & if someone really has nothing better to do, I hope they do go in and break the plays down.... but I think it would be pointless, and a total waste of time.
Simple Version, David looks to be having trouble keeping up with the first team.... Sage looks to be ahead of the second team.....
But things like Morency picking up the blitz, and putting Cook in at fullback is helping Sage out, as well as the fact that there is very little film for anyone to know what Sage's tendancies are...
Also if people will realize David is the starting QB, and Kubiak is approaching the situation as if David was a #1 pick who is just now getting to the point where he needs to be learning on the field, and not on the sideline.
Think about Eli Manning... his first season, he was behind KurtWarner for most of that season....... when they finally got Eli on the field, they realized he's good enough, that they don't have to worry about him loosing the game for them. They knew he was going to struggle for a little while, even into the next season. But Warner wasn't going back into the game. It served no purpose. Warner was then there, in case Eli got them into the playoffs, and got hurt....... he wouldn't botch it up.
Same thing here..... we are going with Carr...... If we are doing well, get into the playoffs, Sage will be able to step in if Carr gets hurt, and he won't botch it up for us. Also, if Kubiak thinks Carr can't cut it, we' won't be desperately looking for another QB.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Was'nt William a backup QB for Oxford .Runner said:
I bet Mario is glad theres a QB debate .
MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS
Waterboy
Honoring Earl 34 said:
You can not see a trend or objective when you have not given the New staff a chance to work with Carr, that theory is irrelavant, as far as Carr haters that's what they are, if you don't like him find a new team, get Peyton Manning as your next QB, or Tom Brady, for God sake give the system a chance.....you are correct Kubiak has done a great job making Sage a good QB, and by all means if David does not prove himself into the new system this year, it's time for a change.............
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
You are missing the point ... the so called Carr haters do not believe Carr will get it . It looked like a duck and it still quacks , so maybe its still a duck . Carr is very good at saying the right things but it has not translated to the field .
I will root for whoever I please .
I will root for whoever I please .
MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS said:
Which brings up the age old question, why is it ok to hate TJ, Babin, PBuch, Weary, Gafney, Walker, Coleman....... etc... but not David.
Someone critics David's play, or says we need to get rid of him..... eventually we'll get the "Go be a Peyton Fan-boy" response.......
Criticize Domanick, or TJ...... and everybody helps look for trade partners.....
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
thunderkyss said:
That's totally overstated. Everyone of those players has proponents. Babin has been lauded by Vinny and Ses for instance. Gaffney is another guy Vinny has pointed out. Walker has received props from myself and others, even Coleman prior to moving to FS. DD has folks who think he is a pro-bowler (pull up the prediction threads) to a slightly below average back.
Folks really need to stop trying to characterize the MB as unanimous or anything close to it on any issue at all--it is all over the map on just about everything.
baba ganoush
Waterboy
Whoever said that carr is losing or gonna lose is job to sage, i dont think they understand the game really well. lets see why...
the person who gave all those statistics on qbs that are getting replaced, doesnt realize all of those qbs are STARS, and pro-bowlers...
heres my point...
Carr is seeing the 1st defense and having success while sage is seeing the 2nd defense...of course sage would have a better pre-season...
not to mention that houston has good talent with thier depth and most other teams dont...
the person who gave all those statistics on qbs that are getting replaced, doesnt realize all of those qbs are STARS, and pro-bowlers...
heres my point...
Carr is seeing the 1st defense and having success while sage is seeing the 2nd defense...of course sage would have a better pre-season...
not to mention that houston has good talent with thier depth and most other teams dont...
Brandon420tx
Flounder
Forget merging. Shoot itMarcus said:
